I see Delver having 2U a reasonable amount of time, as they sideboard Stormbound Geist against decks with edicts. I see them get to three mana, Preordain on their turn, and hold up UU relatively frequently. I think this is OK for people that just don't want to pay for Gush. I don't think it's better, or even close to as good, from strictly a competitive sense.
I am planning to build the deck, but with budget cards where possible. Daze, Gitaxian Probe, and Hydroblast are cards that I'm not yet ready to acquire.
Not really, the card disadvantage is a real drawback. You should play Vapor Snag instead if you don't want to shell out for Snap.
I'd imagine Alex would post lists from a purely competitive standpoint (i.e. cost/budget is no concern) and was wondering if there's a gameplay reason to prefer Vapor Snag. I couldn't come up with any, because there are plenty of times I want to bounce my own creatures i.e. to recast Spellstutter, and Snap would save me a mana and a life.
That's a weird list though. Force Spike over Daze, Deprive, or Logic Knot?
I'd imagine Alex would post lists from a purely competitive standpoint (i.e. cost/budget is no concern) and was wondering if there's a gameplay reason to prefer Vapor Snag. I couldn't come up with any, because there are plenty of times I want to bounce my own creatures i.e. to recast Spellstutter, and Snap would save me a mana and a life.
That's a weird list though. Force Spike over Daze, Deprive, or Logic Knot?
It could be that he's trying to load up on 1-drops? From a purely Tempo based perspective Vapor Snag is really good. 1 damage doesn't seem like much but it adds up with all of the other damage you can get it. Seems more fitting for a U/R deck though that can capitalize on the additional life loss.
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The following link is an invitation to join Pucatrade (card trading service though similar to TCGPLayer). If you follow the link then it awards me with tokens to exchange for actual cards. Thanks! https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
I'd imagine Alex would post lists from a purely competitive standpoint (i.e. cost/budget is no concern) and was wondering if there's a gameplay reason to prefer Vapor Snag. I couldn't come up with any, because there are plenty of times I want to bounce my own creatures i.e. to recast Spellstutter, and Snap would save me a mana and a life.
That's a weird list though. Force Spike over Daze, Deprive, or Logic Knot?
So I'm new to this thread, but I've been playing Delver for about a year and a half. I've looked back through some of the things you've posted and I don't know if you have answers to all of them, but I'll throw in my opinions.
I play 16 land. 17 is considered normal and I think if you play more than 5 UU counterspells you should have 17. I played with 17 for a long time before realizing I flooded more than I wanted and I've gone down to 16 and seen no consequence so far. Quicksand is fine, but if you play it you should really think of it as a spell and only like 1/3 of a land. Sometimes it functions just fine, but when it doesn't it is detrimental; particularly in opening hands where it should absolutely be considered a spell.
If you can't play Gush I'd look into playing with Accumulated Knowledge, Think Twice, Oona's Grace, Mulldrifer, Fathom Seer, Deep Analysis, or Compulsive Research before I played Comparative Analysis.
The list with Force Spikes and Vapor Snags was played when the meta was in a pretty weird place. If you look at MTGoldfish today you'll see less Force Spikes; though the Vapor Snags have stayed pretty common. Vapor Snag can simply be played for 1 less mana which matters now that the deck has to tap out on turn 1 if it wants to deploy a faerie to have turn 2 Spellstutter for 2CMC. This was a lot of the reason to play Force Spike too.
It'll be interesting to see how much of an uptick there is in Daze since it is getting a reprint in EMA and the price has already dropped significantly online.
Hi there! How do you all guys feel about our Elves MU?
I feel like it´s almost an imposible mision. I mean, they have SO MUCH important creatures against us (Archer, the one that gains life, the one that makes mana for each elf, quirion/birchlore + Nettle combo) I think I´ve never won a round against them.
Yeah, I think it is too. Probably you need to mull as much as you need in order to have some early preasure and early counters (Daze and Spellstutter mainly).
On the other hand, at Magic Online Affinity is getting more and more popular. What do you guys think about SB options besides what we all know (AnnulSteel SabotageCurse of ChainsHydroblast etc etc? Is there any card that has proven to you worth playing in this MU?
I think that we all agree that an explosive Affi hand will allways beat us as they can land multiple 4/4s in 1 turn but, what kind of strategy do you prefer? Aggressive use of counter spells targeting as much artifacts you can ? (specially the ones that produce colored mana) Or save them in order to counter the big creatures/Atog? Is it Thoughtcast worth countering?
I´m more of a second choice player except my opponent lacks blue or red mana and they need that artifact (drum/prophetic/star) in order to keep going.
Coral Net has been OK for me but Fade Away has been downright bad. Useless or actively harmful for me. Sometimes Elves can just produce a tonne of mana and other times they can just sac a few extra lands and be fine. I think Thornwind Faeries is where you want to be. Play a control game, stall em out until you get these girls online then you can start gunning down all the pesky elves. Make sure you put up a Spire Golem to block the beats, though.
Disclaimer: I haven't played since Elvish Vanguard became legal, so I don't know if that changes things.
good in the mirror, elves, green aggro, goblins and WW
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Originally Posted by Massive Marc
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
I went with more maindeck faeries because turn 1 faerie into turn 2 ninja is the dream, and my side lets me slide back and forth as anti-aggro or anti-control.
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Pauper: UB Wight Phantasm RB Burn UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
I am pretty new to this format (and maybe to the game itself... although I was active in the past, but everything has changed... RIP draw and go with Morphlings).
Since I have almost everything for the Mono U Delver, I decided to built it on the paper and considering it building online. I have played with friends a few games so far and lost a lot to G Elves, Affinity or Burn. I get that I need to learn the deck (and get out the "controlish" mindset), but I was looking for some advices. Since this is not as active thread as it could be, I am trying to ressurect it.
Played yesterday a small tournament in a local GS. Ended up pretty badly -> 10/14 people.
1 round
WUBGR Tron 0:2
Completely locks me out, nothing saved me not Annul nor the rest.
2 round
BR Burn 2:1
Hydroblast saves the day.
3 round
Affinity 1:2
Misplayed Echoing Truth which cost me the 3rd game
4 round
WUBGR Tron (variant 2) 0:2
No chance, again. Assembled Tron very fast, couldn’t react much.
I have seen a lot of Trons, Affinity, Mono U Delver (miracle that I have not experienced a mirror match), Elves, some Burns, one MBC and some home brew. I expected better result but I guess I need to practice more. I really struggle against Tron and Affinty, have no idea how to beat them actually.
Played yesterday a small tournament in a local GS. Ended up pretty badly -> 10/14 people.
1 round
WUBGR Tron 0:2
Completely locks me out, nothing saved me not Annul nor the rest.
2 round
BR Burn 2:1
Hydroblast saves the day.
3 round
Affinity 1:2
Misplayed Echoing Truth which cost me the 3rd game
4 round
WUBGR Tron (variant 2) 0:2
No chance, again. Assembled Tron very fast, couldn’t react much.
I have seen a lot of Trons, Affinity, Mono U Delver (miracle that I have not experienced a mirror match), Elves, some Burns, one MBC and some home brew. I expected better result but I guess I need to practice more. I really struggle against Tron and Affinty, have no idea how to beat them actually.
We should be able to put-tempo tron but if you’re really having issues spreading seas and boomerang are options.
Why don’t you post your list here? That way people can read it without clicking on a link and don’t have to remember what changes you’ve made. Also, you mention using pyroblast, but pyroblast isn’t in your list. If that is your list I’d highly recommend Ninja of the Deep Hours over Augur of Bolas. Ninja always grabs you a card and can get a spellstutter sprite back in hand. It’s not hard to post a list here. For example, this is my list:
Just got back in on the deck having played it years back. Have had one match so far, beat Affinity and went something like: + 3 Annul, +2 Hydroblast, +3 Curse of Chains // -1 Ninja of the Deep Hours, -2 Daze, -2 Ponder, -2 Preordain, -1 Brainstorm
Your deck strongly reminds me one from MTGGoldfish with 5:0 score, I run the similar one except for Vapor Snag changed to Snap and -2 Augur Bolas in favor of Mutagenic Growth.
But I struggle with sideboarding too, mine its almost the same except 4x Hydroblast (much Burn and Tron decks).
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Active player in years 1999-2004.
Mono U Draw & Go fan
Decks:
Modern - Mono U Tron, UR Delver
Legacy - UR Delver
Pauper - BGRUW Tron, Mono U Delver, Mono B Control
So now is the Izzet Delver a thing? https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tournament/pauper-challenge-11160263#online Well online is not hard to get those cards but it is almost impossible for me to get Snow-Covered lands and Skred in the pauper (stores in my country do not have them available).
What do you think?
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Active player in years 1999-2004.
Mono U Draw & Go fan
Decks:
Modern - Mono U Tron, UR Delver
Legacy - UR Delver
Pauper - BGRUW Tron, Mono U Delver, Mono B Control
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2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
Not really, the card disadvantage is a real drawback. You should play Vapor Snag instead if you don't want to shell out for Snap.
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/alexullman-041916-the-pauper-8-from-oath-of-the-gatewatch/
I'd imagine Alex would post lists from a purely competitive standpoint (i.e. cost/budget is no concern) and was wondering if there's a gameplay reason to prefer Vapor Snag. I couldn't come up with any, because there are plenty of times I want to bounce my own creatures i.e. to recast Spellstutter, and Snap would save me a mana and a life.
That's a weird list though. Force Spike over Daze, Deprive, or Logic Knot?
2) Use the right number of each card.
3) Know your probabilities.
4) Print your deck lists; make yourself and your judges happier.
It could be that he's trying to load up on 1-drops? From a purely Tempo based perspective Vapor Snag is really good. 1 damage doesn't seem like much but it adds up with all of the other damage you can get it. Seems more fitting for a U/R deck though that can capitalize on the additional life loss.
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
So I'm new to this thread, but I've been playing Delver for about a year and a half. I've looked back through some of the things you've posted and I don't know if you have answers to all of them, but I'll throw in my opinions.
I play 16 land. 17 is considered normal and I think if you play more than 5 UU counterspells you should have 17. I played with 17 for a long time before realizing I flooded more than I wanted and I've gone down to 16 and seen no consequence so far. Quicksand is fine, but if you play it you should really think of it as a spell and only like 1/3 of a land. Sometimes it functions just fine, but when it doesn't it is detrimental; particularly in opening hands where it should absolutely be considered a spell.
If you can't play Gush I'd look into playing with Accumulated Knowledge, Think Twice, Oona's Grace, Mulldrifer, Fathom Seer, Deep Analysis, or Compulsive Research before I played Comparative Analysis.
The list with Force Spikes and Vapor Snags was played when the meta was in a pretty weird place. If you look at MTGoldfish today you'll see less Force Spikes; though the Vapor Snags have stayed pretty common. Vapor Snag can simply be played for 1 less mana which matters now that the deck has to tap out on turn 1 if it wants to deploy a faerie to have turn 2 Spellstutter for 2CMC. This was a lot of the reason to play Force Spike too.
It'll be interesting to see how much of an uptick there is in Daze since it is getting a reprint in EMA and the price has already dropped significantly online.
I feel like it´s almost an imposible mision. I mean, they have SO MUCH important creatures against us (Archer, the one that gains life, the one that makes mana for each elf, quirion/birchlore + Nettle combo) I think I´ve never won a round against them.
Any tips?
On the other hand, at Magic Online Affinity is getting more and more popular. What do you guys think about SB options besides what we all know (Annul Steel Sabotage Curse of Chains Hydroblast etc etc? Is there any card that has proven to you worth playing in this MU?
I think that we all agree that an explosive Affi hand will allways beat us as they can land multiple 4/4s in 1 turn but, what kind of strategy do you prefer? Aggressive use of counter spells targeting as much artifacts you can ? (specially the ones that produce colored mana) Or save them in order to counter the big creatures/Atog? Is it Thoughtcast worth countering?
I´m more of a second choice player except my opponent lacks blue or red mana and they need that artifact (drum/prophetic/star) in order to keep going.
Disclaimer: I haven't played since Elvish Vanguard became legal, so I don't know if that changes things.
What do you think about the general game strategy Vs Affi?
aeolipile
good in the mirror, elves, green aggro, goblins and WW
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
4 brainstorm
4 cloud sprite
4 delver of secrets
4 faerie miscreant
4 spellstutter sprite
4 counterspell
3 negate
4 deprive
4 ninja of the deep hours
2 gush
17 island
2 skyline cascade
Sideboard
4 unsummon
4 curse of chains
2 mulldrifter
4 spire golem
I went with more maindeck faeries because turn 1 faerie into turn 2 ninja is the dream, and my side lets me slide back and forth as anti-aggro or anti-control.
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
The card draw there is a midrange trait, delver gives up card advantage for tempo with cards like snap.
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
I am pretty new to this format (and maybe to the game itself... although I was active in the past, but everything has changed... RIP draw and go with Morphlings).
Since I have almost everything for the Mono U Delver, I decided to built it on the paper and considering it building online. I have played with friends a few games so far and lost a lot to G Elves, Affinity or Burn. I get that I need to learn the deck (and get out the "controlish" mindset), but I was looking for some advices. Since this is not as active thread as it could be, I am trying to ressurect it.
I am using pretty basic deck: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/901952
Any advices appreciated and thanks in an advance.
Mono U Draw & Go fan
Decks:
Modern - Mono U Tron, UR Delver
Legacy - UR Delver
Pauper - BGRUW Tron, Mono U Delver, Mono B Control
Mono U Draw & Go fan
Decks:
Modern - Mono U Tron, UR Delver
Legacy - UR Delver
Pauper - BGRUW Tron, Mono U Delver, Mono B Control
1 round
WUBGR Tron 0:2
Completely locks me out, nothing saved me not Annul nor the rest.
2 round
BR Burn 2:1
Hydroblast saves the day.
3 round
Affinity 1:2
Misplayed Echoing Truth which cost me the 3rd game
4 round
WUBGR Tron (variant 2) 0:2
No chance, again. Assembled Tron very fast, couldn’t react much.
I have seen a lot of Trons, Affinity, Mono U Delver (miracle that I have not experienced a mirror match), Elves, some Burns, one MBC and some home brew. I expected better result but I guess I need to practice more. I really struggle against Tron and Affinty, have no idea how to beat them actually.
The deck I used https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/901952
A change is I run 2x Echoing Truth instead Spell Pierce and one Gut Shot in SB.
Mono U Draw & Go fan
Decks:
Modern - Mono U Tron, UR Delver
Legacy - UR Delver
Pauper - BGRUW Tron, Mono U Delver, Mono B Control
We should be able to put-tempo tron but if you’re really having issues spreading seas and boomerang are options.
Why don’t you post your list here? That way people can read it without clicking on a link and don’t have to remember what changes you’ve made. Also, you mention using pyroblast, but pyroblast isn’t in your list. If that is your list I’d highly recommend Ninja of the Deep Hours over Augur of Bolas. Ninja always grabs you a card and can get a spellstutter sprite back in hand. It’s not hard to post a list here. For example, this is my list:
4 delver of secrets
4 faerie miscreant
4 spellstutter sprite
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Spire Golem
Spells 20
4 ponder
4 preordain
4 counterspell
4 miscalculation
4 snap
18 island
2 Lonley sandbar
3 pyroblast
2 annul
2 negate
2 exclude
2 echoing truth
2 relic of progenitus
2 stormbound Geist
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
How many Brainstorm / Ponder / Preordain, if any, can be shaved?
16 Island
Creatures (21)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Faerie Miscreant
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Augur of Bolas
1 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Spire Golem
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
2 Brainstorm
4 Vapor Snag
2 Daze
4 Counterspell
3 Gush
2 Gut Shot
3 Annul
2 Hydroblast
2 Dispel
3 Curse of Chains
3 Stormbound Geist
Just got back in on the deck having played it years back. Have had one match so far, beat Affinity and went something like: + 3 Annul, +2 Hydroblast, +3 Curse of Chains // -1 Ninja of the Deep Hours, -2 Daze, -2 Ponder, -2 Preordain, -1 Brainstorm
But I struggle with sideboarding too, mine its almost the same except 4x Hydroblast (much Burn and Tron decks).
Mono U Draw & Go fan
Decks:
Modern - Mono U Tron, UR Delver
Legacy - UR Delver
Pauper - BGRUW Tron, Mono U Delver, Mono B Control
What do you think?
Mono U Draw & Go fan
Decks:
Modern - Mono U Tron, UR Delver
Legacy - UR Delver
Pauper - BGRUW Tron, Mono U Delver, Mono B Control