not that sure about the autoinclusion. running just 3 colors it seldom happens that i don't have access to a single blue, let alone double blue.
i tried behemoth, and the need to resummon it didn't matter (it either was destroyed before end of turn or didn't matter to me to recast it in the second main phase), still, it was the clunkiest piece of the deck. i would assume that an additional u would complicate things further.
any thoughts on the common vehicles instead?
Getting double blue is the trick, but, I think it's worth taking a new approach to affinity that isn't based around atog/fling. A 5/6 beatstick on turn two is pretty difficult to answer. There are some cards that previously haven't seen play an affinity that would help the cause i.e. Pentad Prism or Manamorphose. The Prism I like a lot since it's going to increase your affinity count by +1 and fixes your double blue problem on turn 2, which is entirely possible to have 5 other artifacts in play by that point.
Snynod, Den, Drum, Serpent, Prism, Frogmite.........that's a turn two serpent with edict protection. Affinity in this approach becomes more of an aggro/control list instead of an aggro/combo list. There is room for both in the meta, especially now that drake is gone
the solution i have seen so far in 5-0 decklists is far more elegant and effective. a singleton copy of gearseeker serpent, no deck revolutions.
i did see also 2 gearseekers and 2 somber hoverguards with some rush of knowledge, but i don't expect that to be performing constantly (rush is imo a winmore).
i wouldn't also sell short temur battle rage or, in a meta with prevalently more dangers in combat, fling. those are the source of too many G1 wins, and believe me, all decks fear the combo as soon as an atog is on the stack.
the solution i have seen so far in 5-0 decklists is far more elegant and effective. a singleton copy of gearseeker serpent, no deck revolutions.
I think it's bit pre-mature to call something more elegant and effective if there is nothing to support that anything new had even been tried. Drake had pretty much discouraged any real brewing, so, I'm doubtful that many people have even tried with Gearseeker as their focal point and then crafted their deck around that. Many people in the local paper pauper scene tell me pretty much the same thing, but, when I ask them what they did to support Gearseeker, they said they swapped out 4 copies of "name your affinity staple card" and ran pretty much the same list. If that is the approach people are taking, and after watching online matches and looking at a few decklists that do run 4 copies of Geerseeker, so far it looks like that is what most people are doing. I don't really blame people for lazy deckbuilding while Drake is around............but come Nov 16th, I expect better.
Testing might prove me wrong, but, the testing has to actually be done before there is anything to compare to.
i have to be honest, i am not that much of a tester or brewer (significantly limited play time) so i am as curious as you. singleton gearseeker was good to me, but in most instances a second one would be uncastable, so that's definitively an issue.
i also would be really interested in a more combo deck with affinity staples and teachings (the 4 power+temur battle rage+tainted strike combo).
So here is the first draft of the Gearseeker Serpent focused build. I wanted to maximize my ability to produce double blue on turn 2. Pentad Prism and Springleaf Drum work great at getting me there. Now I'll just need to start tweeking and testing to see what other stuff I can cram in there. So far while goldfishing and playing a couple quick games with my friends, I've been able to get the double blue on turn two, very consistently. Every Time I've drawn GS by turn two, I've been able to play him that turn. Now, is it enough to ride for the win? That's what I'm not so sure of yet. I think this deck wants more of an aggro/control shell than the typical pure aggro or aggro/combo shells that we see from affinity. If I can control the board for a few turns after landing a turn 2 GS, the deck can finish really quickly, but, with no evasion, it could also get stalled out. Frogmites and the other 1 mana artifacts are pretty crucial to making sure you have the proper Affinity count early, after GS hits the table, you're not as worried about maintaining your affinity count so typical affinity hate is slightly less of a problem. I'll be trying a few other things to see how it all works, but, this is my starting point for something more focused on an early and consistent GS.
I've been testing with my friends and so far I haven't found it to be any better or worse than typical affinity lists with Atog/Fling combo. It has super explosive starts and then every once in awhile it can just fizzle. It has been slightly more resilient to artifact hate since the serpent sticks around, but, I still need more time to tune and practice. This is my first time playing affinity seriously. I've tested with it before but I always avoided actually playing with it in the past because of it's inconsistencies and it's weakness to post board hate. If I can smooth some of those issues out, I think it can be more of the style I like to play. Pentad Prism does some pretty sweet stuff for the deck, but I do find myself wanting more gas or at least cantrips.
I think I've seen a couple lists on mtggoldfish that have 5-0'd with as many as 3 GS but they also still ran Atog/Fling. I personally want to avoid that as I'm not too keen on wrecking my own board state to try for a combo that can get disrupted fairly easy. I really want to aim for something that is more of a pure aggro deck, but I'm still not sold affinity is the right shell. Lack of evasion can be a problem vs decks that can chump you and then take out your big creatures. Temur Battle Rage and other pumps are getting some testing now, as well as working on a sideboard. Anything I'm testing is generally going to be slow since I don't play online anymore and have limited play time, but, I'm gonna keep working on it.
Getting UU for Gearseeker Serpent isn't always easy and sometimes feels clunky. I actually have an Affinity deck that doesn't have Atog / Fling. Instead, it tries to hit UU more consistently for Gearseeker.
I've been experimenting with Pentad Prism before AER was spoiled and have had some good success with it. Now with Improvise, I like it even more as it's an artifact that doesn't tap to use so it's fine for tapping when I want to Improvise something in quickly.
my take is that affinity needs to be more mana efficient to be able to follow its game plan even with hate. that could mean playing lands conservatively game 2 and 3, siding out greedy cards (gearseeker or improvise cards), adding fast mana (lotus petal for example), card draw, or graveyard recursion for artifact if not cards (but i don't know if anything of the kind exists).
playing delve creatures post sideboard might also help, since all artifact removal actually helps casting them.
hate in sideboards for affinity existed well before ancient grudge, yet the deck managed to stay tier 1 for quite a while.
i recognize i might be giving the card too much flak, but i really see the hurt being applied in post side games running 4 copies of them. i'm trying to remember how many times in game 2 or 3 i had access to double blue. with all the hate, i would feel lucky to have the one blue source. same case with carapace forger but in that case green is the least targeted color by opponents' removal (first priority is red, then blue), so that helped sometime to win through hate just by sequencing correctly my land drops.
true, prophetic prism laughs at gorilla shaman, but no chromatic star in a atog build seems off. i might suggest terrarion instead? Cogworker's Puzzleknot might be interesting even without white lands (and i will probably tinker with a couple of them), but for a fact 4 flayer husk are too many in a meta without prevalence of mono-black. as i realized i was using 4 just because of early springleaf drum mana, i cut one drum and 2 husks, so this might help your build too.
Your list looks pretty standard except you switched out Chromatic Stars for Somber Hoverguard. I just recently started to play Pauper and haven't played that many games with Affinity yet, but putting in more colored spells with affinity but cutting artifacts and mana fixing for them is a bad idea. Chromatic Star is super important to the deck imho and for several reasons: It fixes mana, it makes the deck flow better because of the card draw and it is a cheap artifact, wich gives the deck quick starts together with Frogmite, Myr Enforcer and early Metalcraft.
it's been a while since i last played, but one of the cards in black that caused me headaches was Stinkweed Imp. you play control, you're more than happy to recur it. besides, last time i checked, i was one of the few to run relic of progenitus in the sideboard.
this does not save you from the atog+fling combo, but you do save a couple of counters for it, right?
it's been a while since i last played, but one of the cards in black that caused me headaches was Stinkweed Imp. you play control, you're more than happy to recur it. besides, last time i checked, i was one of the few to run relic of progenitus in the sideboard.
this does not save you from the atog+fling combo, but you do save a couple of counters for it, right?
Yeah. Honestly I board in 2 Dispel and 3 Hydroblast just because of the Atog + Fling combo. I'm not sure if that's right though.
Honestly my biggest problem against Affinity is just how many 4/4s the deck has. I suppose I should try out some Gurmag Anglers.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Hey everybody, I've been using this deck for a while and thought I would share my list. I really don't enjoy the fragile nature of the Atog + Fling combo and would much rather play multiple tough threats which is why the combo is not present. I also think that post board it gets much harder to execute the combo, as our artifacts are often being hated on by the opponent. This led me to my more resilient version of the deck.
The cards I added instead of 4 Atog and 2 Fling were 2 Bonesplitter, 2 Vault Skirge, and 2 Perilous Research. I used to have various splits of Skirge and Bonesplitter, without any Researches, but I found that I could not reach a split I liked. Also, lowering the curve of the deck by cutting 6 two mana cards for 6 one mana cards meant that I got flooded more frequently, so Perilous Research was my solution. One main reason I like this version is that there are 4 more artifacts to play on turn 1, which contributes to our nut draws. Vault Skirge is also another early enabler for our Springleaf Drums, a card that needs to be active if we want our occasional turn 2 Myr Enforcer shenanigans. Skirge also holds equipment really well, particularly Bonesplitter, which I added to make all of our Frogmites and other creatures relevant in the lategame if our opponent played a big creature like an Angler. It also helps us establish a clock in the air now that the list includes 6 flyers.
Sideboarding is pretty simple with this deck and usually involves taking out some combination of Research, Skirge, or Splitter. Against red decks we almost always bring in 4 Hydroblast to deal with Gorilla Shaman. This gives us 8 ways to kill it if we include our 4 Galvanic Blast. To make room, I usually side out Research and Splitter because those cards are worse when we can't stick an artifact and have less explosive starts. We also really want cheap creatures like Skirge (which technically has cmc 2, protecting it from Gorilla Shaman to some degree) because if we land a Drum but don't have any creatures to use it, it is even worse because Shaman might be blowing up our lands. The Krark Clan Shaman is there mostly for elves decks or token decks as it can completely board wipe them frequently. I used to run Elecktrickery, but Elves in particular have some 2 toughness creatures that make a full board clear much better. It is pretty easy to know when to bring in Relic, often for Bonesplitter, and Ancient Grudge is for the mirror usually. There are some matchups where we don't have any board cards, like against Bogles, but I think that racing them in the air and being able to stall on the ground to some degree is also fine. I considered 1 Serene Heart, but it will almost undoubtedly be sided in less than the Hydroblast it replaces, and dealing with Gorilla Shaman is extremely crucial post board.
Any feedback is appreciated, and I will happily answer any questions if you guys have some.
Getting double blue is the trick, but, I think it's worth taking a new approach to affinity that isn't based around atog/fling. A 5/6 beatstick on turn two is pretty difficult to answer. There are some cards that previously haven't seen play an affinity that would help the cause i.e. Pentad Prism or Manamorphose. The Prism I like a lot since it's going to increase your affinity count by +1 and fixes your double blue problem on turn 2, which is entirely possible to have 5 other artifacts in play by that point.
Snynod, Den, Drum, Serpent, Prism, Frogmite.........that's a turn two serpent with edict protection. Affinity in this approach becomes more of an aggro/control list instead of an aggro/combo list. There is room for both in the meta, especially now that drake is gone
i did see also 2 gearseekers and 2 somber hoverguards with some rush of knowledge, but i don't expect that to be performing constantly (rush is imo a winmore).
i wouldn't also sell short temur battle rage or, in a meta with prevalently more dangers in combat, fling. those are the source of too many G1 wins, and believe me, all decks fear the combo as soon as an atog is on the stack.
I think it's bit pre-mature to call something more elegant and effective if there is nothing to support that anything new had even been tried. Drake had pretty much discouraged any real brewing, so, I'm doubtful that many people have even tried with Gearseeker as their focal point and then crafted their deck around that. Many people in the local paper pauper scene tell me pretty much the same thing, but, when I ask them what they did to support Gearseeker, they said they swapped out 4 copies of "name your affinity staple card" and ran pretty much the same list. If that is the approach people are taking, and after watching online matches and looking at a few decklists that do run 4 copies of Geerseeker, so far it looks like that is what most people are doing. I don't really blame people for lazy deckbuilding while Drake is around............but come Nov 16th, I expect better.
Testing might prove me wrong, but, the testing has to actually be done before there is anything to compare to.
i also would be really interested in a more combo deck with affinity staples and teachings (the 4 power+temur battle rage+tainted strike combo).
4 Frogmite
4 Gearseeker Serpent
4 Vault Skirge
4 Flayer Husk
4 Pentad Prism
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Thoughtcast
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Tree of Tales
4 Vault of Whispers
So here is the first draft of the Gearseeker Serpent focused build. I wanted to maximize my ability to produce double blue on turn 2. Pentad Prism and Springleaf Drum work great at getting me there. Now I'll just need to start tweeking and testing to see what other stuff I can cram in there. So far while goldfishing and playing a couple quick games with my friends, I've been able to get the double blue on turn two, very consistently. Every Time I've drawn GS by turn two, I've been able to play him that turn. Now, is it enough to ride for the win? That's what I'm not so sure of yet. I think this deck wants more of an aggro/control shell than the typical pure aggro or aggro/combo shells that we see from affinity. If I can control the board for a few turns after landing a turn 2 GS, the deck can finish really quickly, but, with no evasion, it could also get stalled out. Frogmites and the other 1 mana artifacts are pretty crucial to making sure you have the proper Affinity count early, after GS hits the table, you're not as worried about maintaining your affinity count so typical affinity hate is slightly less of a problem. I'll be trying a few other things to see how it all works, but, this is my starting point for something more focused on an early and consistent GS.
I think I've seen a couple lists on mtggoldfish that have 5-0'd with as many as 3 GS but they also still ran Atog/Fling. I personally want to avoid that as I'm not too keen on wrecking my own board state to try for a combo that can get disrupted fairly easy. I really want to aim for something that is more of a pure aggro deck, but I'm still not sold affinity is the right shell. Lack of evasion can be a problem vs decks that can chump you and then take out your big creatures. Temur Battle Rage and other pumps are getting some testing now, as well as working on a sideboard. Anything I'm testing is generally going to be slow since I don't play online anymore and have limited play time, but, I'm gonna keep working on it.
This is where a Metallic Rebuke would come in handy.
I've been experimenting with Pentad Prism before AER was spoiled and have had some good success with it. Now with Improvise, I like it even more as it's an artifact that doesn't tap to use so it's fine for tapping when I want to Improvise something in quickly.
Cogworker's Puzzleknot has been underwhelming outside of standard pauper.
playing delve creatures post sideboard might also help, since all artifact removal actually helps casting them.
hate in sideboards for affinity existed well before ancient grudge, yet the deck managed to stay tier 1 for quite a while.
true, prophetic prism laughs at gorilla shaman, but no chromatic star in a atog build seems off. i might suggest terrarion instead?
Cogworker's Puzzleknot might be interesting even without white lands (and i will probably tinker with a couple of them), but for a fact 4 flayer husk are too many in a meta without prevalence of mono-black. as i realized i was using 4 just because of early springleaf drum mana, i cut one drum and 2 husks, so this might help your build too.
Your list looks pretty standard except you switched out Chromatic Stars for Somber Hoverguard. I just recently started to play Pauper and haven't played that many games with Affinity yet, but putting in more colored spells with affinity but cutting artifacts and mana fixing for them is a bad idea. Chromatic Star is super important to the deck imho and for several reasons: It fixes mana, it makes the deck flow better because of the card draw and it is a cheap artifact, wich gives the deck quick starts together with Frogmite, Myr Enforcer and early Metalcraft.
What are some cards you worry about against UB? Honestly it doesn't seem like my deck has much game against Affinity :\
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
this does not save you from the atog+fling combo, but you do save a couple of counters for it, right?
Yeah. Honestly I board in 2 Dispel and 3 Hydroblast just because of the Atog + Fling combo. I'm not sure if that's right though.
Honestly my biggest problem against Affinity is just how many 4/4s the deck has. I suppose I should try out some Gurmag Anglers.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Somber Hoverguard
4 Carapace Forger
2 Vault Skirge
Spells
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Thoughtcast
2 Perilous Research
4 Chromatic Star
4 Springleaf Drum
2 Prophetic Prism
Equipment
4 Flayer Husk
2 Bonesplitter
Lands
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Great Furnace
4 Tree of Tales
4 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroblast
4 Hydroblast
3 Krark-Clan Shaman
2 Relic of Progenitus
Hey everybody, I've been using this deck for a while and thought I would share my list. I really don't enjoy the fragile nature of the Atog + Fling combo and would much rather play multiple tough threats which is why the combo is not present. I also think that post board it gets much harder to execute the combo, as our artifacts are often being hated on by the opponent. This led me to my more resilient version of the deck.
The cards I added instead of 4 Atog and 2 Fling were 2 Bonesplitter, 2 Vault Skirge, and 2 Perilous Research. I used to have various splits of Skirge and Bonesplitter, without any Researches, but I found that I could not reach a split I liked. Also, lowering the curve of the deck by cutting 6 two mana cards for 6 one mana cards meant that I got flooded more frequently, so Perilous Research was my solution. One main reason I like this version is that there are 4 more artifacts to play on turn 1, which contributes to our nut draws. Vault Skirge is also another early enabler for our Springleaf Drums, a card that needs to be active if we want our occasional turn 2 Myr Enforcer shenanigans. Skirge also holds equipment really well, particularly Bonesplitter, which I added to make all of our Frogmites and other creatures relevant in the lategame if our opponent played a big creature like an Angler. It also helps us establish a clock in the air now that the list includes 6 flyers.
Sideboarding is pretty simple with this deck and usually involves taking out some combination of Research, Skirge, or Splitter. Against red decks we almost always bring in 4 Hydroblast to deal with Gorilla Shaman. This gives us 8 ways to kill it if we include our 4 Galvanic Blast. To make room, I usually side out Research and Splitter because those cards are worse when we can't stick an artifact and have less explosive starts. We also really want cheap creatures like Skirge (which technically has cmc 2, protecting it from Gorilla Shaman to some degree) because if we land a Drum but don't have any creatures to use it, it is even worse because Shaman might be blowing up our lands. The Krark Clan Shaman is there mostly for elves decks or token decks as it can completely board wipe them frequently. I used to run Elecktrickery, but Elves in particular have some 2 toughness creatures that make a full board clear much better. It is pretty easy to know when to bring in Relic, often for Bonesplitter, and Ancient Grudge is for the mirror usually. There are some matchups where we don't have any board cards, like against Bogles, but I think that racing them in the air and being able to stall on the ground to some degree is also fine. I considered 1 Serene Heart, but it will almost undoubtedly be sided in less than the Hydroblast it replaces, and dealing with Gorilla Shaman is extremely crucial post board.
Any feedback is appreciated, and I will happily answer any questions if you guys have some.
https://discord.gg/YWcVCqz9Pr