It's weird to me as someone who plays Stompy that more people don't want to play with Familiars since that deck is by far the best Drake deck against me and it's an incredibly resilient deck compared to some of the alternatives. I haven't played with/against Dimir Familiars but Reaping the Graves is such a powerful way to win the long game and the added consistency of two colors might be worth the loss of Lone Missionary, Prismatic Strands, etc from white.
The UG land aura versions are probably the most consistently fast of any of the iterations. I think someone posted on Reddit last week a screenshot of the UG version comboing them out on turn 3 which I don't think is possible for any other version. Land destruction is definitely something to look out for though, which makes the 2 color versions that only have 4 bouncelands as bad lands to get blown up a bit more appealing.
I don't see much discussion going on here despite the deck being at full force (and we're on the best variant of it too!)
Yesterday the League statistics were a bit alarming: Alex Ullman reported a Delver Angler, a UG Drake deck and FIVE Izzet Drake this. There are also at least 1-2 Izzet lists per day. MBC, Kuldotha Jeskai and regular Tron lists alongside Midrange / non-Drake control in general have been completely pushed out. We're clearly under the radar, but do you guys think the banhammer will fall on Kaladesh? Because if that's the case I don't see the point of making this an official primer just for two months.
I don't see much discussion going on here despite the deck being at full force (and we're on the best variant of it too!)
Yesterday the League statistics were a bit alarming: Alex Ullman reported a Delver Angler, a UG Drake deck and FIVE Izzet Drake this. There are also at least 1-2 Izzet lists per day. MBC, Kuldotha Jeskai and regular Tron lists alongside Midrange / non-Drake control in general have been completely pushed out. We're clearly under the radar, but do you guys think the banhammer will fall on Kaladesh? Because if that's the case I don't see the point of making this an official primer just for two months.
It is a possibility. I'm kinda on the fence when it comes to drake and the ban hammer. It offers some degenerate games, but at the same time it can allow for some pretty intense ones as well. I don't think drake is on the same level that cloud of faeries was. The fact that it costs 5 mana makes it much easier to stop. I think the reason that it is getting so much play is that it gives you a bunch of free wins. You have a grind game, but you can also kill out of nowhere. I like what it brings to the table, but if it as format warping as Alex Ullman said, then I wouldn't be surprised if it got the hammer.
I kind of hope that Drake stays in the format and that the metagame is able to adjust itself so that Drake gets absorbed and stays within the tier1 range without being utterly dominant as it it (sseems to be) now.
The only adjustments you really need to do is add some graveyard hate if you want to stop the combo. It can't go off with a relic or spell-bomb in play unless it has double flicker or something. The decks that I play have not had to adjust to drake, as there are already slots that hit the deck. I'm not sure if this applies to all lists, But boarding against the deck isn't an issue for me at the very least. I find it harder to grind out the deck in general that to board against it.
I kind of hope that Drake stays in the format and that the metagame is able to adjust itself so that Drake gets absorbed and stays within the tier1 range without being utterly dominant as it it (sseems to be) now.
The only adjustments you really need to do is add some graveyard hate if you want to stop the combo. It can't go off with a relic or spell-bomb in play unless it has double flicker or something. The decks that I play have not had to adjust to drake, as there are already slots that hit the deck. I'm not sure if this applies to all lists, But boarding against the deck isn't an issue for me at the very least. I find it harder to grind out the deck in general that to board against it.
The problem with this is that Drake is a multi-angular deck (much like Splinter Twin). Relic and Spellbomb surely help in providing you a safety net that makes them go through a bit of loops in order to go off, but given enough time (and/or lack of pressure) they can sculpt a hand that double Flickers, so that they go off when you attempt to clear graveyards. Not to mention that a savvy opponent will resolve Drake and a Wall, which are good cards on their own, and make you dance around their three untapped mana (essentially slowing you down in fear of instant-speed "dying") until they are able to find the Flicker and/or some protection for it. That's why it's important to be conscious that a single piece of disruption doesn't mean you are good to go; it could also happen that you get so focused on the combo that a couple of Drakes plus burn elements slowly kill you while you are so focused on the threat of getting infinite'd.
Sure, of course the deck can deal with hate if given enough time, almost any deck can. The point I'm trying to make is that when it comes to adjusting to the deck - which is something you addressed earlier- I don't think every deck has to change to adjust to the drake combo deck. A lot of the lists that I played changed maybe 1-2 cards at most, but even then it was not a huge deal. If you bring in hate and then rely solely on that to win the game, then you're not playing correctly. You should bring it in to slow them down, and then pressure them to close out the game. The one thing I have noticed however, is that the drake deck does push out some decks from the format. There are decks that just cannot deal with what it brings to the table, even if they sideboard against it. However that is true for many decks. The majority of list has some match-up that is unfavorable even with sideboard hate. Instead, we should be looking at is how much it warps the meta-game, rather than decks not being able to side against it.
In terms of your point where you address having the drake and wall in play and leaving up three mana, I don't see that as being a threatening line of play. If you pass, I'm going to force you to have the flicker on my turn. I could talk about different lines of play for this, but it seems like a huge tangent, and depends on what I'm piloting.
Relic, Spellbomb and similar need to be added as sideboarding elements to decks that already have a fighting chance against UR Drake's control elements. Tokens, for example, foil its one-for-one removal spells, which are around nine or so maindeck now; Gurmag Angler requires double Bolt. Atog is a pain in the ass to deal with, pre-board, and so on.
Which token deck are you referring to? There are a ton of variants, so I need more specifics to discuss that further. I'm a bit confused on your tangent with angler requiring double bolt as well, I'm not quite sure where that fits into the discussion. Atog being a pain also confuses me, as I find that card to be a bomb against most token decks, as you can pair it up with fling to just wreck their day. I'm a bit confused where you are trying to come from when addressing these cards, and how they relate to tokens and graveyard hate.
Indeed, you need to fight them on the "fair" axis with favorable weapons whilst at the same time being enough prepared for their attempts at comboing you out, which may occur at any time they untap from five mana on, thus forcing you to leave some mana open evry time (and possibly holding more thaan a single piece of disruption).
Unless I'm mistaken, UR drake can't combo out when it has five mana. Drake, Wall, and Flicker costs a total of 8 mana to use. If you have 5 mana, I'm not playing around the combo. You could argue that you can play drake and then protect it with counter magic to build up to the combo starting on turn 5, but that's a different argument all together. If we are talking about the esper version- which can combo as early as turn 4- then I could see where you're coming from.
It's a tall order to ask for, especially for not-so-interactive decks. Decks that are aiming to tap out big (Jeskai, MBC) or are ill-equipped to play at instant speed (White Weenie) are just at a disadvantage, which is why I suspect many players are complaining about Drake's dominance.
Jeskai has things like Pyroblast and relic in the sideboard, so I don't see the argument that the deck has no way to combat the deck. Mono Black Control has things like duress, nihil spellbomb, wrench mind, and choking sands to hit the bounce lands, which is very relevant. All of these decks have ways to combat the deck. What I find to be the most difficult part about beating the drake deck, is staying on parity with the deck. Having mull drifter, sea gate oracle, and compulsive research make it really hard to grind the deck out. I've found this to be more of an issue than the combo itself, at least from my own games with and against the deck. The majority of the games I've played, I get to grind people out to the point that they can't even deal with the combo. I have more cards than them, and my cards are just good on their own. The combo is just a clean finisher that not only allows for a smooth victory, but if your opponent has no way to interact with it, allows you to win out of nowhere.
What I also found out, both from personal experience and from metagame trends, is that Pyroblast and Counterspells are clearly the best way to manage Drake, and when Affinity is the other dog at the top of the chain, it gets pretty mandatory to play UR shells as they offer all the elements you need for, thus (further) narrowing the format to blue, red and black as best colors.
I can agree to this. Blue offers some of the best cards in the pauper format. Outside of drake, it allows for things like mulldrifter, counterspells, Ponder, and things like Gush. I don't think it's inaccurate to say that blue is one of the better colors in pauper. Having access to pyroblast allows you to deal with blue decks which red offers in addition to things like lightning bolt and other good removal spells. If anything, it seems as if the drake deck has set a barrier that many decks have to pass in order to be viable in the format.
However, I believe Drake makes for interesting games, although the unfair scenarios where you bring them down to a very low life totals and they lucksack into the loop are a possibility and quite likely to induce frustration.
If we consider numbers then it's safe to say that it needs to go- it has covered something like 30%ish of the metagame so far (the number is most likely not accurate, but Alex Ullman did some number crunching and the trend of dominance of Drake decks rose steadily from June on). I also believe it's unlikely that the online metagame adjusts and/or shifts in a way that UR Drake loses some of its success, both due to people not really trying hard to next-level-metagame and to the deck being very flexible and able to play a UR fair-deck style of game in case the loop gets over-hated. Not that the fair part of the deck is particularly impressive in my opinion, bue hey, flying beats plus burn is still a win condition.
The only shifts seem to be that there is an increase in decks that have a shot against drake, and a decrease in decks that can't deal with it even with sb hate. In terms of alternate win conditions, I've seen variants that have a great control game and then use the combo as a plan B.
I think there has been a misunderstanding. I mentioned cards that are already being played in successful decks, and strategies that are naturally well set up against UR Drake. In fact, Affinity has seen a steady rise, to the point of being the second most played deck in the online metagame, according to Mtggoldfish. I am surprised UB Angler does not see more play- it seems a well-built deck that has a favorable matchup in UR Drake while at the same time being able to adjust against the other contenders. Gurmag Angler needs double Bolt (hence my words) to be taken down. Similarly, Atog from Affinity is very hard to deal with pre-board unless you start sending multiple burn spells at him.
As for tokens, obviously, they are of the white variety. A bunch of Flame Slashes, Lightning Bolts and Firebolts are poor against that deck. However, tokens is bad at digging for interactive spells and that is the reason why I think it has done relatively little so far despites it splashing red for Lightning Bolt (and Rally, but we are talking about answers to Drake here).
Gotcha. That makes sense. As said earlier, we can see how drake has warped the meta game as there has been an increase in decks that have a shot against it, and a decrease in decks that can't deal with what it brings to the table. In terms of tokens, sure, Drake might have pushed it out of the meta game. But it's not like it was a tier deck in the first place, or even a highly played one at that. There were decks that already were set up to beat it. Drake just seemed to be the nail in the coffin.
Five mana, cast Drake, untap five lands, Flicker Drake and a land, float mana from the remaining 2 lands (2), resolve Flicker, float mana from the untapped land with Drake's trigger on the stack (3), untap five lands, float 5 mana (8), Wall or Archaeomancer retrieving Flicker for the infinite mana, proceed from there.
I don't know how I forgot this was a thing. I've done it multiple times with the esper variant. It's how they can kill on turn 4. Don't know why I didn't translate it over to the Izzet variant. Mistake on my part.
You said it yourself. At first I was convinced, too, that Jeskai was well set up to put up a favorable fight against Drake, due to having essentilly the same ability of grinding card advantage and the same choice in reactive powerhouse cards like maindeck burn spells and post-board Pyroblasts. However, the way the matchup works in played games is that Jeskai is clunky in its development of resources while UR Drake is way smoother. Preordain and Compulsive Research are no match for the clunky and underpowered engine of re-playing pistons; Drake's manabase is ten times better. Jeskai's threats are all Boltable and there is no trump card. Moreover, Jeskai can't ever tap out for Mulldrifter because it risks dying on the spot if it does. Post-board, Jeskai's terrible manabase makes it so that a random Gorilla Shaman passing by and blowing up two lands puts the deck to an unmanageable disadvantage. I have witnessed this consistently both in my own matches and in ones I saw from competent players.
MBC is essentially the same story. The real issue is that you can't catch up with SGOs and Mulldrifters if they are accompanied by the threat of a combo out of nowhere. And if you play too conservatively due to being scared of being insta-killed, you lose the grindy game. Thus, MBC and Jeskai are just two poor choices at the moment.
I addressed this earlier when I said that Drake decks are very difficult to stay on parity with. You compared things like preordain, mulldrifter, sea gate oracle, and compulsive research to the piston engine of the jeskai deck.
Drake decks have better cards, and I find it very difficult for many decks to stay on parity with the drake deck. The drake combo slows down these decks, by forcing them to not play their spells out in fear of dying to the combo, even when the drake deck is nowhere close to going off. It doesn't matter if you have sideboard hate, if the drake deck is getting ahead on cards, it will be able to deal with it, whether it be finding counter magic, or just redundancy. You stated that you hoped decks would adjust to the drake deck. My argument was that there are decks that cannot beat the drake deck even if they sideboard. This is not because of the combo itself, but due to the fact that the deck has better cards that are just good on their own. Games get to the point where you grind them out of cards and they have no way to interact with the combo at all.
I would like to add that the staleness of Pauper's metagame would still be there even if Drake was banned three months from now. We would go back to the previous status quo where midrange decks are out-powered by Marauder Tron, which is pretty interesting, given those are the decks that are suffering the most now, as said. Tron in turn would get hosed by decks attempting to go under it (Stompy/Aura/Goblins/Kiln Fiend), with tempo decks and Teachings being in a somewhat healthy in-between. The only tangible change post-EMA would be Elves having Elvish Vanguard as a way of powering a buff dude that doesn't die to Electrickery, but that's niche anyways and all the same would be pretty much as before.
I don't see this as an issue. Every non rotating format is going to get to a point where the meta game is well defined. The same is said for pauper. It's rare for us to get commons that have a large impact on the format now a days. Whether or not drake is in the format, there will be a point when it becomes well defined. At the moment, it seems better to have it without drake, as it would lower the barrier to entry for decks to be viable, as drake increases this dramatically. In terms of changes post EMA, nimble mongoose has had some impact. While it's impact is not large on the format, nimble mongoose has given support to decks in the format that needed it.
In my experience, Flicker/Drake the kind of deck that just kills local paper pauper communities before they can get started. I've seen several local pauper communities just disappear after a few people show up and decide to play the best deck like CoF and now Drake.
Historically, there are relatively few decks that have the inevitability of winning that /Flicker/Drake has. I suppose that is great if you're the type of player that likes this style of deck and values winning above all else. For a format that is not fully supported and could have a lot of potential to have new brews pop up and promote a fun environment, Flicker/Drake is pretty much the worst thing that could happen to pauper IMO.
That being said, I'm not in favor of banning Drake. Ghostly Flicker and now Displace are the real problem cards for combo decks of this nature. If you have no way to bounce multiple creatures, Drake is no longer a problem.
Whelp, drake dodged the hammer, at least for this time. I didn't feel like investing in the deck since I was afraid of a banning, but since it still hasn't gotten the hammer, I might as well go full out drake until it happens.
I know the deck has been set on being UR for a while, but I've decided to just jam it into a grixis teachings shell that I normally play to give it more reach. Here is a grixis variant that I brewed up ages ago.
This variant isn't Mtgo friendly, since you don't have a fireball to draw into. Normally I just bomber man them out with lightning bolt until they die, or deck them with analysis, either one works.
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The UG land aura versions are probably the most consistently fast of any of the iterations. I think someone posted on Reddit last week a screenshot of the UG version comboing them out on turn 3 which I don't think is possible for any other version. Land destruction is definitely something to look out for though, which makes the 2 color versions that only have 4 bouncelands as bad lands to get blown up a bit more appealing.
Yesterday the League statistics were a bit alarming: Alex Ullman reported a Delver Angler, a UG Drake deck and FIVE Izzet Drake this. There are also at least 1-2 Izzet lists per day. MBC, Kuldotha Jeskai and regular Tron lists alongside Midrange / non-Drake control in general have been completely pushed out. We're clearly under the radar, but do you guys think the banhammer will fall on Kaladesh? Because if that's the case I don't see the point of making this an official primer just for two months.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
It is a possibility. I'm kinda on the fence when it comes to drake and the ban hammer. It offers some degenerate games, but at the same time it can allow for some pretty intense ones as well. I don't think drake is on the same level that cloud of faeries was. The fact that it costs 5 mana makes it much easier to stop. I think the reason that it is getting so much play is that it gives you a bunch of free wins. You have a grind game, but you can also kill out of nowhere. I like what it brings to the table, but if it as format warping as Alex Ullman said, then I wouldn't be surprised if it got the hammer.
The only adjustments you really need to do is add some graveyard hate if you want to stop the combo. It can't go off with a relic or spell-bomb in play unless it has double flicker or something. The decks that I play have not had to adjust to drake, as there are already slots that hit the deck. I'm not sure if this applies to all lists, But boarding against the deck isn't an issue for me at the very least. I find it harder to grind out the deck in general that to board against it.
Sure, of course the deck can deal with hate if given enough time, almost any deck can. The point I'm trying to make is that when it comes to adjusting to the deck - which is something you addressed earlier- I don't think every deck has to change to adjust to the drake combo deck. A lot of the lists that I played changed maybe 1-2 cards at most, but even then it was not a huge deal. If you bring in hate and then rely solely on that to win the game, then you're not playing correctly. You should bring it in to slow them down, and then pressure them to close out the game. The one thing I have noticed however, is that the drake deck does push out some decks from the format. There are decks that just cannot deal with what it brings to the table, even if they sideboard against it. However that is true for many decks. The majority of list has some match-up that is unfavorable even with sideboard hate. Instead, we should be looking at is how much it warps the meta-game, rather than decks not being able to side against it.
In terms of your point where you address having the drake and wall in play and leaving up three mana, I don't see that as being a threatening line of play. If you pass, I'm going to force you to have the flicker on my turn. I could talk about different lines of play for this, but it seems like a huge tangent, and depends on what I'm piloting.
Which token deck are you referring to? There are a ton of variants, so I need more specifics to discuss that further. I'm a bit confused on your tangent with angler requiring double bolt as well, I'm not quite sure where that fits into the discussion. Atog being a pain also confuses me, as I find that card to be a bomb against most token decks, as you can pair it up with fling to just wreck their day. I'm a bit confused where you are trying to come from when addressing these cards, and how they relate to tokens and graveyard hate.
Unless I'm mistaken, UR drake can't combo out when it has five mana. Drake, Wall, and Flicker costs a total of 8 mana to use. If you have 5 mana, I'm not playing around the combo. You could argue that you can play drake and then protect it with counter magic to build up to the combo starting on turn 5, but that's a different argument all together. If we are talking about the esper version- which can combo as early as turn 4- then I could see where you're coming from.
Jeskai has things like Pyroblast and relic in the sideboard, so I don't see the argument that the deck has no way to combat the deck. Mono Black Control has things like duress, nihil spellbomb, wrench mind, and choking sands to hit the bounce lands, which is very relevant. All of these decks have ways to combat the deck. What I find to be the most difficult part about beating the drake deck, is staying on parity with the deck. Having mull drifter, sea gate oracle, and compulsive research make it really hard to grind the deck out. I've found this to be more of an issue than the combo itself, at least from my own games with and against the deck. The majority of the games I've played, I get to grind people out to the point that they can't even deal with the combo. I have more cards than them, and my cards are just good on their own. The combo is just a clean finisher that not only allows for a smooth victory, but if your opponent has no way to interact with it, allows you to win out of nowhere.
I can agree to this. Blue offers some of the best cards in the pauper format. Outside of drake, it allows for things like mulldrifter, counterspells, Ponder, and things like Gush. I don't think it's inaccurate to say that blue is one of the better colors in pauper. Having access to pyroblast allows you to deal with blue decks which red offers in addition to things like lightning bolt and other good removal spells. If anything, it seems as if the drake deck has set a barrier that many decks have to pass in order to be viable in the format.
I can agree with this as well.
The only shifts seem to be that there is an increase in decks that have a shot against drake, and a decrease in decks that can't deal with it even with sb hate. In terms of alternate win conditions, I've seen variants that have a great control game and then use the combo as a plan B.
Gotcha. That makes sense. As said earlier, we can see how drake has warped the meta game as there has been an increase in decks that have a shot against it, and a decrease in decks that can't deal with what it brings to the table. In terms of tokens, sure, Drake might have pushed it out of the meta game. But it's not like it was a tier deck in the first place, or even a highly played one at that. There were decks that already were set up to beat it. Drake just seemed to be the nail in the coffin.
I don't know how I forgot this was a thing. I've done it multiple times with the esper variant. It's how they can kill on turn 4. Don't know why I didn't translate it over to the Izzet variant. Mistake on my part.
I addressed this earlier when I said that Drake decks are very difficult to stay on parity with. You compared things like preordain, mulldrifter, sea gate oracle, and compulsive research to the piston engine of the jeskai deck.
Drake decks have better cards, and I find it very difficult for many decks to stay on parity with the drake deck. The drake combo slows down these decks, by forcing them to not play their spells out in fear of dying to the combo, even when the drake deck is nowhere close to going off. It doesn't matter if you have sideboard hate, if the drake deck is getting ahead on cards, it will be able to deal with it, whether it be finding counter magic, or just redundancy. You stated that you hoped decks would adjust to the drake deck. My argument was that there are decks that cannot beat the drake deck even if they sideboard. This is not because of the combo itself, but due to the fact that the deck has better cards that are just good on their own. Games get to the point where you grind them out of cards and they have no way to interact with the combo at all.
I don't see this as an issue. Every non rotating format is going to get to a point where the meta game is well defined. The same is said for pauper. It's rare for us to get commons that have a large impact on the format now a days. Whether or not drake is in the format, there will be a point when it becomes well defined. At the moment, it seems better to have it without drake, as it would lower the barrier to entry for decks to be viable, as drake increases this dramatically. In terms of changes post EMA, nimble mongoose has had some impact. While it's impact is not large on the format, nimble mongoose has given support to decks in the format that needed it.
Historically, there are relatively few decks that have the inevitability of winning that /Flicker/Drake has. I suppose that is great if you're the type of player that likes this style of deck and values winning above all else. For a format that is not fully supported and could have a lot of potential to have new brews pop up and promote a fun environment, Flicker/Drake is pretty much the worst thing that could happen to pauper IMO.
That being said, I'm not in favor of banning Drake. Ghostly Flicker and now Displace are the real problem cards for combo decks of this nature. If you have no way to bounce multiple creatures, Drake is no longer a problem.
I know the deck has been set on being UR for a while, but I've decided to just jam it into a grixis teachings shell that I normally play to give it more reach. Here is a grixis variant that I brewed up ages ago.
4 Mulldrifter
3 Peregrine Drake
3 Archaeomancer
Spells[28]
2 Mystical teachings
1 Ghostly Flicker
4 Counterspell
2 Comparative Analysis
1 Think Twice
1 Exclude
1 Capsize
1 Grim Harvest
1 Crypt Incursion
3 Terminate
1 Deprive
1 Soul Manipulation
3 Lightning bolt
1 Skred
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Flame Slash
1 Firebolt
1 Innocent Blood
5 Snow-Covered Island
2 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Swiftwater Cliffs
3 Dismal Backwater
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Dimir Aqueduct
2 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Electrickery
2 Evincar's Justice
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Dispel
3 Pyroblast
2 Curse of the Bloody Tome
1 Diabolic Edict
This variant isn't Mtgo friendly, since you don't have a fireball to draw into. Normally I just bomber man them out with lightning bolt until they die, or deck them with analysis, either one works.