My first thought was "ugh, another singleton format" I'm not really a fan. But as I started formulating deck ideas it dawned on me that this could solve the oppressivness of things like The Deck and UR counter burn. So I think I'll start brewing.
And that is one pile o' jank. Why Elves of Deep Shadow? And what are doing with Channel? Are you even running enough artifacts to justify the Miter?
I know it's jank, but let me try to explain. I just wanted to play Serra Angel, but I don't have enough white cards for mono white, as I started pulling cards I thought would be fun, I was very artifact heavy and many of those had high mana costs, so the elves help with ramp, even if one of them is off color. I could have put a 4th edition bird of paradise, but at first it was strictly old school editions. I still borrowed cards from other decks. I later pulled those and added revised cards (book, swords, sol ring and disk). I didn't actually want this deck to be 'good', I just wanted an excuse to play more Antiquities cards.
I laughed the first time I played "Urza's Pope hat", but my first game with it, I drew 3 cards off it (and I even missed at least one when a tetravite was killed by a triskelion and I didn't think about it until later in the turn). I even drew off chaos orb when I flipped it (Orb went back in my main red deck before taking the photo). That version of the deck didn't have the book in it. Book is more reliable draw, I'm not sure I need both.
Channel made it in due to my lack of playables. I also put together a deck that's mostly blue cheese with a splash of green and it has a few of my good green cards like sylvan library. I have more blue cards incoming, so if I can make the other deck mono blue, I'll swap channel for a sylvan library. I also added a regrowth to this deck as I realized I had an extra revised copy. I think I cut storm seeker for it. Now that I'm thinking about it, storm seeker probably fits into that blue deck just fine, and I could put Sylvan Library in here for Channel.
edit, I made some more changes and went to take a photo only to find my battery in my phone is dead. I swapped a forest for a city of brass, swapped a gaea's touch for a birds of paradise, and swapped Grapeshot catapult for onulet (still jank but 3 mana instead of 4).
I'd like to see a deck list for your blue cheese. Since blue's the color if this format.
See attached. It needs work. I have a zephyr falcon and another serendib incoming. I don't own berserks, so I would like to probably cut the green altogether, but right now I'm also short on good looking islands. Scryb Sprites would not be terrible though.
I have had good luck play testing UR fliers on MTGO, but I don't have the cards for it in paper yet. Roc of Kher Ridges is a bit underrated in my opinion. I love Avoid Fate too! You're right, as long as this deck is running green, there's no harm in running 1-2 Avoid Fate. I do like my mind bombs though.
I have a hard time with creatures with a CMC of 3 or 4 that die to Lightning Bolt. I play in a red heavy meta, Lightning Bolt and Goblin Grenade are the burn spells I encounter the most. The only two creatures that I usually consider in that spot are Juggernaut and Hypnotic Specter. And even those creatures are just used to fish out Bolts.
At CMC 4 or more I basically want my opponent to have to use a Grenade or Fireball to take my dude out. I know that you have to make exceptions to make certain decks work(I'm a huge fan of Enchantress in every format possible), but as a rule of thumb, that creature better have serious utility.
I like Rukh Egg a lot. (I have one in the sideboard of what I'm considering my main deck - Mono Red).
This is what I was playing on MTGO. I never had to face Goblin Grenade with it, and mostly battled against control decks. The idea was to have more threats. To me a Roc represents a flying lightning bolt. I've seen lists playing Granite Gargoyle, but I like the offensive 3 power. It also helps that I had all the moxes when I was playing this, so 4 mana with only 1 being red never felt like a lot of mana.
I did recently pick up an Unlimited Roc and a FWB Serendib, so I'm getting closer to building this in paper too. I just need more moxes. If someone could just donate some to the cause...
That's a sexy efreet, what did you pay for it, if you don't mind me asking?
I like it. It has the right art and border, even if it's the wrong language. I paid less than $4 for it. It was shipped in a plain envelope from Germany by a gentleman in the Slack chat. I was watching some on e-bay that went for about $8 shipped, so I was pretty happy at that price. Don't believe the crazy seller on TCG player. That price is extortion.
It's also worth noting that SCG recently had the Foreign BLACK border at $25, which is significantly more pimp.
Updated the 1st post, added another YouTube Channel (Time Walking). Some members of the old school community have been playing a variant they are calling Type II the first.
We also play Type 2 but it's the one from Fallen Empires to Ice Age. It's the one they played at the first Pro Tour. Good old Erhnagheddon decks. UW control/mill. Mono Black Necro knights.
We are considering a restriction on Necro to open the format but it's still so much fun. And it's really cheap as well.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
My first thought was "ugh, another singleton format" I'm not really a fan. But as I started formulating deck ideas it dawned on me that this could solve the oppressivness of things like The Deck and UR counter burn. So I think I'll start brewing.
You can still get pretty oppressive in singleton. (I'm assuming there is an exception for basics and ABUR duals, since manabases will be terrible without access to multiple duals and playing Magic with bad mana is boring.)
I've only seen a few lists, but there is not an exception for dual lands. The one I built was just with extra jank I had on hand, and I've since taken it apart. (So I could build mono white).
On a side note the folks on the Facebook skype group are running a Noobcon Web qualifier. (Swedish ban list, but USA/relaxed reprints allowed) Sign up has ended, but hopefully there will be a write up and deck photos at the end. It's a league style event so it will be going for a couple of weeks.
I've only seen a few lists, but there is not an exception for dual lands. The one I built was just with extra jank I had on hand, and I've since taken it apart. (So I could build mono white).
Hmm OK. Then having singleton duals is what really cuts out the OP control decks more than anything. My point was that having singleton of the other cards isn't a HUGE issue because many are restricted anyway and for the others there are enough tier 2 substitutes that the deck can still do roughly the same thing.
But without mana fixing, forget it. You're basically forced to play monocolored or G/x. Even in monocolored, the card pool is pretty shallow even going up to Fallen Empires.
Well it's not over yet, but I went 3-3 in the n00bcon 2017 Web Qualifier Derby. There's a cut to top 4 coming up. Unless someone else drops though I don't expect to be in the top 4. I faced Power Artifact + Basalt Monolith twice and lost to it twice, and I got beaten down by some crazy fast Juzam Djinns. There were Serra Angels, Serendibs and Time Twisters for days. All in all a pretty fun event. Blood moon was my friend in several games.
edit: oh and there's a new Instagram out there called @9394MtgDecks
I'm currently running Su-Chi, and I've had to solve an issue. I face a lot of aggro, so my Su-Chis get killed off fairly regularly. The issue is how to spend the mana to avoid mana burn. If I have out Factories I'm safe, but in many games I'd eat the damage. I've taken to waiting until I get out a mana dump before playing Su-Chi but that doesn't always come on-line as fast as I'd like. I've noticed that many lists run Su-Chi, and was wondering if anyone else was noticing the same thing. I've adapted my play style in accordance, but for a short while I took a bunch of burn damage, which makes you feel sort of silly.
I've taken to getting Jayemdae Tome out first, if possible these days.
I'm currently running Su-Chi, and I've had to solve an issue. I face a lot of aggro, so my Su-Chis get killed off fairly regularly. The issue is how to spend the mana to avoid mana burn. If I have out Factories I'm safe, but in many games I'd eat the damage. I've taken to waiting until I get out a mana dump before playing Su-Chi but that doesn't always come on-line as fast as I'd like. I've noticed that many lists run Su-Chi, and was wondering if anyone else was noticing the same thing. I've adapted my play style in accordance, but for a short while I took a bunch of burn damage, which makes you feel sort of silly.
I've taken to getting Jayemdae Tome out first, if possible these days.
I haven't had to play against anyone that was adamant about using mana burn, so my su-chi has no downside, and has potential upside if I can feed it to Atog to pay mana into Fireball. It's almost like an old school fling. That said I do play Basalt monolith and factories in the same deck, so I could potentially untap basalt monolith with 3 of the mana, or loot with Jalum Tome. My Su-Chis get disenchanted a lot, so I could see it being a real draw back if you are playing with mana burn rules.
Question from a format newbee: say Su-Chi is killed during combat, you have to spend the mana at instant speed as it's going to get emptied from your mana-pool at instant speed, right? So, isn't this really not that strong? I seem to have spotted the card see wide play despite this, and I'm not sure why.
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Question from a format newbee: say Su-Chi is killed during combat, you have to spend the mana at instant speed as it's going to get emptied from your mana-pool at instant speed, right? So, isn't this really not that strong? I seem to have spotted the card see wide play despite this, and I'm not sure why.
It's a 4/4 for 4 without color requirements. Unlike Juggernaut it is not required to attack each turn, and it takes more than a single lightning bolt to kill it. It also used to be very cheap (like $5) making it more budget than some of the other beaters. It's still more budget than the Arabian Nights djinns. In addition to all of that it dodges The Abyss and Terror. Su-Chi also doesn't always die in combat. Sometimes Su-Chi gets disenchanted at the end of the turn. Sometimes you transmute it for something else. Sometimes Atog eats it. In the event that it gets hit with a swords to plowshares it's removed from the game and you don't get the mana anyway. Without mana burn there's really no downside, and it has occasional upside.
I've been working on the very casual / nostalgia-driven project of making myself an Old School (extended to Fallen Empire) mono-color deck gauntlet. I have to say I'm pretty happy with the black (reanimator control), red (goblin burn), green (thallid stompy), blue (Winter orb prison) and white (weenie auras) ones but I can't seem to get the artifact / colorless (UrzaTron stompy, splash red ATM for Pyroclasm and Fireball finisher) one quite right. Su-Chi could be the beater I need to really give the Tron deck some real early game stomp power, besides the four Juggernauts.
I'd love some input on my lists, even though this might not be the best place for it.
I love seeing decks. Feel free to post and I'll at least give my opinion. Hopefully others will chime in as well. Are you playing with strip mine restricted? Because otherwise it seems like it might be difficult to assemble all of the tron lands.
Hello. I saw this thread was about magic. I have been doing magic for a while now. I am only 10 but I am getting pretty good.! Check out my David Blaine moves! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUMOaL4Vjng
Nice! I just picked up a forcefield and was briefly considering mono-brown. With Mirror Universe and all that mana, did you ever consider book of rass?
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I know it's jank, but let me try to explain. I just wanted to play Serra Angel, but I don't have enough white cards for mono white, as I started pulling cards I thought would be fun, I was very artifact heavy and many of those had high mana costs, so the elves help with ramp, even if one of them is off color. I could have put a 4th edition bird of paradise, but at first it was strictly old school editions. I still borrowed cards from other decks. I later pulled those and added revised cards (book, swords, sol ring and disk). I didn't actually want this deck to be 'good', I just wanted an excuse to play more Antiquities cards.
I laughed the first time I played "Urza's Pope hat", but my first game with it, I drew 3 cards off it (and I even missed at least one when a tetravite was killed by a triskelion and I didn't think about it until later in the turn). I even drew off chaos orb when I flipped it (Orb went back in my main red deck before taking the photo). That version of the deck didn't have the book in it. Book is more reliable draw, I'm not sure I need both.
Channel made it in due to my lack of playables. I also put together a deck that's mostly blue cheese with a splash of green and it has a few of my good green cards like sylvan library. I have more blue cards incoming, so if I can make the other deck mono blue, I'll swap channel for a sylvan library. I also added a regrowth to this deck as I realized I had an extra revised copy. I think I cut storm seeker for it. Now that I'm thinking about it, storm seeker probably fits into that blue deck just fine, and I could put Sylvan Library in here for Channel.
edit, I made some more changes and went to take a photo only to find my battery in my phone is dead. I swapped a forest for a city of brass, swapped a gaea's touch for a birds of paradise, and swapped Grapeshot catapult for onulet (still jank but 3 mana instead of 4).
See attached. It needs work. I have a zephyr falcon and another serendib incoming. I don't own berserks, so I would like to probably cut the green altogether, but right now I'm also short on good looking islands. Scryb Sprites would not be terrible though.
4x Flying Men
1x Phantom Monster
2x Prodigal Sorcerer
2x Serendib Efreet
1x Vesuvan Doppelganger
3x Zephyr Falcon
4x Giant Growth
1x Sunken City
4x Unstable Mutation
Other:
1x Braingeyser
1x Control Magic
4x Mind Bomb
1x Power Sink
3x Psionic Blast
1x Regrowth
1x Storm seeker
4x Unsummon
8x Forest
13x Island
1x Strip Mine
*I've replaced sylvan library with storm seeker.
If you continue with green, Avoid Fate. (What, no Counterspells?)
Another suggestion would be to splash Red for an Earthquake or two. With that flying armada it's handy to keep the ground clear.
At CMC 4 or more I basically want my opponent to have to use a Grenade or Fireball to take my dude out. I know that you have to make exceptions to make certain decks work(I'm a huge fan of Enchantress in every format possible), but as a rule of thumb, that creature better have serious utility.
Now I think Rukh Egg is a funny sleeper card.
This is what I was playing on MTGO. I never had to face Goblin Grenade with it, and mostly battled against control decks. The idea was to have more threats. To me a Roc represents a flying lightning bolt. I've seen lists playing Granite Gargoyle, but I like the offensive 3 power. It also helps that I had all the moxes when I was playing this, so 4 mana with only 1 being red never felt like a lot of mana.
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Unstable Mutation
2 Counterspell
1 Wheel of Fortune
2 Nevinyrral's Disk
2 Fireball
2 Blood Lust
1 Braingeyser
4 Roc of Kher Ridges
4 Serendib Efreet
1 Shivan Dragon
Mana:
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
10 Island
10 Mountain
Sideboard
I did recently pick up an Unlimited Roc and a FWB Serendib, so I'm getting closer to building this in paper too. I just need more moxes. If someone could just donate some to the cause...
It's also worth noting that SCG recently had the Foreign BLACK border at $25, which is significantly more pimp.
We are considering a restriction on Necro to open the format but it's still so much fun. And it's really cheap as well.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
You can still get pretty oppressive in singleton. (I'm assuming there is an exception for basics and ABUR duals, since manabases will be terrible without access to multiple duals and playing Magic with bad mana is boring.)
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Sol Ring
1 Ivory Tower
1 Millstone
1 Jalum Tome
1 Disrupting Scepter
1 Jayemdae Tome
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
//Spells: 21
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Terror
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Balance
1 Disenchant
1 Divine Offering
1 Counterspell
1 Mana Drain
1 Remove Soul
1 Time Walk
1 Transmute Artifact
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Timetwister
1 Wrath of God
1 Earthquake
1 Mind Twist
1 Power Sink
1 Recall
1 Braingeyser
1 Paralyze
1 Moat
1 The Abyss
1 Control Magic
//Creatures: 2
1 Serra Angel
1 Mahamoti Djinn
//Lands: 20
4 Underground Sea
4 Tundra
4 Volcanic Island
4 Scrubland
2 Plateau
1 City of Brass
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Invoke Prejudice
1 Island Sanctuary
1 Howling Mine
1 Kismet
1 Meekstone
1 Shatter
1 Copy Artifact
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Circle of Protection: Black
1 Acid Rain
1 Karma
1 Argivian Find
1 Vesuvan Doppleganger
Spot removal: 4
Counters: 4
Mass removal: 4
Disenchants: 2
Card draw: 7
It's not optimal, but you can get numbers and functional roles pretty close to The Deck.
On a side note the folks on the Facebook skype group are running a Noobcon Web qualifier. (Swedish ban list, but USA/relaxed reprints allowed) Sign up has ended, but hopefully there will be a write up and deck photos at the end. It's a league style event so it will be going for a couple of weeks.
Hmm OK. Then having singleton duals is what really cuts out the OP control decks more than anything. My point was that having singleton of the other cards isn't a HUGE issue because many are restricted anyway and for the others there are enough tier 2 substitutes that the deck can still do roughly the same thing.
But without mana fixing, forget it. You're basically forced to play monocolored or G/x. Even in monocolored, the card pool is pretty shallow even going up to Fallen Empires.
edit: oh and there's a new Instagram out there called @9394MtgDecks
https://www.twitch.tv/oldschoolmtg
I've taken to getting Jayemdae Tome out first, if possible these days.
I haven't had to play against anyone that was adamant about using mana burn, so my su-chi has no downside, and has potential upside if I can feed it to Atog to pay mana into Fireball. It's almost like an old school fling. That said I do play Basalt monolith and factories in the same deck, so I could potentially untap basalt monolith with 3 of the mana, or loot with Jalum Tome. My Su-Chis get disenchanted a lot, so I could see it being a real draw back if you are playing with mana burn rules.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
It's a 4/4 for 4 without color requirements. Unlike Juggernaut it is not required to attack each turn, and it takes more than a single lightning bolt to kill it. It also used to be very cheap (like $5) making it more budget than some of the other beaters. It's still more budget than the Arabian Nights djinns. In addition to all of that it dodges The Abyss and Terror. Su-Chi also doesn't always die in combat. Sometimes Su-Chi gets disenchanted at the end of the turn. Sometimes you transmute it for something else. Sometimes Atog eats it. In the event that it gets hit with a swords to plowshares it's removed from the game and you don't get the mana anyway. Without mana burn there's really no downside, and it has occasional upside.
I've been working on the very casual / nostalgia-driven project of making myself an Old School (extended to Fallen Empire) mono-color deck gauntlet. I have to say I'm pretty happy with the black (reanimator control), red (goblin burn), green (thallid stompy), blue (Winter orb prison) and white (weenie auras) ones but I can't seem to get the artifact / colorless (UrzaTron stompy, splash red ATM for Pyroclasm and Fireball finisher) one quite right. Su-Chi could be the beater I need to really give the Tron deck some real early game stomp power, besides the four Juggernauts.
I'd love some input on my lists, even though this might not be the best place for it.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.