Defining format features based on costs, is short sighted.
Which is why Modern did so badly, right? It basically was there to deal with the tiny stock of reserve list items and legacy playable cards, and is the most popular format.
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Pauper: UB Wight Phantasm RB Burn UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Defining format features based on costs, is short sighted.
Which is why Modern did so badly, right? It basically was there to deal with the tiny stock of reserve list items and legacy playable cards, and is the most popular format.
Yes, because a format which has had 3 dedicated sets of reprints, is certainly comparable to a list of cards which Wizards has committed to never reprint which in many cases are integral to a formats function.
Colt complaining about costs on mana bases is not similar to the reserved list as a motivation for Modern.
Defining format features based on costs, is short sighted.
Which is why Modern did so badly, right? It basically was there to deal with the tiny stock of reserve list items and legacy playable cards, and is the most popular format.
Well, the problem is the same between legacy and modern when it comes to the price of the staples, but the forces keeping those prices high are a bit different. In the case of fetch lands the crux of the issue is that the demand for the cards due to tournament / competitive play is very high compared to the number of cards available and when they reprinted the cards the price dip was temporary because the supply of the card still couldn't deal with the demand. Legacy cards are high cost because of the same forces, only in this case the supply is very small as is the number of buyers with little hope of any reprints.
The only hope frontier has at avoiding moderns fate is to either have cards that are heavily reprinted over and over, or have a larger number of equally viable options that have modest reprints. Modern basically has no chance of becoming affordable for the average player due to wizards being so reprint averse. Even if they keep doing modest reprints with modern masters and eternal masters that won't drop prices down to levels that most players could afford.
Modern really isn't worth playing, though. Modern is basically as broken as standard is, only it has diversity because the number of mechanically over powered cards allows for a meta that is just on a different level of speed and play from standard. The trouble with the format is that due to that power it is very swingy, the number of viable options per deck is extremely low, and the supply is not very good on some of them due to being from older sets.
Also, the modern forum gang probably know me more for my rants on pricing than anything else. Id Surge is among those people so keep that in mind when you see his posts referencing me. I have a long standing history of being pro-reprint / lower prices and always have complained about prices in modern since coming back to the game two years ago.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I personnaly have no idea where the deck should start but I believe it be a good idea to look for deck possibility that are enabled with more blocks and see which meta allows for more decks to be viable.
I dislike the idea of Flecths because as a student it was really hard for me to acquire some and it greatly affected my range of deck option to choose from. I would also try to cycle in a few tournament before selling the deck for money which mostly end up in me losing half my money but allowed me to eat.
If you look at modern half the cost is the mana base.
Khans feel overpowered to me with cards already banned and I just don't think having those cards in a new format would makes sense because that block would simply define the meta.
Having it start at magic origin would make sense, the standard feel would imo come from khans not magic origin.
I agree that's why I said to look for the optimal numbers of block and see which combination gives the most opportunity for decks to be played.
Something that might sound strange would be to pick good blocks over taking the last X blocks. There is old block that aren't so costy and are really fun to play with. For exemple Kamigawa,
I think we need to remove fletch land from frontier.
I would personally like 4-years Extended back, but I believe post-Modern will be BFZ onwards whenever it becomes official. They'll justify it by the very simple metric that it's when they changed the block structure.
I would personally like 4-years Extended back, but I believe post-Modern will be BFZ onwards whenever it becomes official. They'll justify it by the very simple metric that it's when they changed the block structure.
The format needs those cards right now more than ever because the more recent sets just have a complete lack of good removal. If they start printing better spells once more we should be okay to not include m15 onward. The big lesson to be learned in modern is never start a format from an arbitrary starting point. For modern they literally made it based on the new card background, which got the format stuck with 8th edition onwards. Frontier is doing the exact same thing with M15. If they really wanted to start the format right and include m15 it needs Theros block.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Defining format features based on costs, is short sighted.
Which is why Modern did so badly, right? It basically was there to deal with the tiny stock of reserve list items and legacy playable cards, and is the most popular format.
Modern vs Legacy is not a matter of costs, it's a matter of politics. Politics prevent dual lands from being printed. Nothing prevents fetchlands from being printed and therefore making rules based on their current cost is inherently flawed because said cost is mutable.
Basing the choice off card frames made sense back in the day because there were fewer reprinted cards and the card frames were massively different. The 8th edition to M15 switch is much more subtle. Also, as we continue on into the future, every card that is reprinted will have the new frame, even cards made specifically for Legacy. So I think that is an arbitrary and silly justification for deciding where a new format is to begin.
I think Frontier should start at Origins. it is clearly the set where there was a strong shift in the way sets were designed, marking the point where a new era began. Yes there are nice and fun cards in Khans and M15 but we will have nice cards going forward, especially once the reprint sets return next year.
Commander and MTGO vintage have proven that Wizards is not immune to popular demand. If Frontier suddenly became popular, they would eventually support it (on MTGO). MTGO prizes are free for them, so its pure profit for them to run things like Pauper, Momir and Vintage online.
That being said, I don't think Frontier is going to make it. Modern seems to have calmed down for the moment, and Standard isn't doing as badly as it was a year ago.
I think the format should go back to Return to Ravnica. Control, Combo, Aggro, Midrange are all viable imo. If people are so worried about fetches especially with shocks then ban those. I dont think it really matters if the mana is good. Id say to go back to the core set before but I really dont wanna see thragtusk see any play.
Frontier will be fine being Origins and Up. The fact is if it starts too far back than it's basically modern and if we are too far forward than it's going to take a while for it to build up a card pool. I still play frontier myself and have some decks built, but I think that there are better solutions to the price and availability issues than simply making a new format and pretending all of the cards before the start point don't exist.
Case in point, if they made a format that is basically a rotation except the majority of cards keep getting reprinted via the sets that are legal for the format, they can manage the card pool and let go of cards they no longer want without banning them, exile tons of chaff from the format, and probably prevent the perfect bacon weave effect that has happened in Modern.
Private Mod Note
():
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I know Frontier is essentially dead/hyper niche now, but are those still playing it intending to put Modern Horizons into Frontier or ignore it?
I think putting it in actually has some benefits. Frontier is defined by grindy combo decks the way Modern was at its inception, and getting the ability to stop those combos in the new Force of X cards makes control better.
From Return to Ravnica onwards with fetchlands banned is the new official format.
Maybe conceptually the same. But Frontier was introduced with what, 10 legal sets or something like that? Compared to Pioneer being announced with 29 legal sets? I suspect the formats, comparatively, will be drastically different from each other - regardless of if fetches were legal or not.
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LEGACY|UWStonebladeCOMMANDER|UBGThe Mimeoplsm Ooze & Aghhs!MODERN|UWAzorius Control THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE
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Which is why Modern did so badly, right? It basically was there to deal with the tiny stock of reserve list items and legacy playable cards, and is the most popular format.
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
Yes, because a format which has had 3 dedicated sets of reprints, is certainly comparable to a list of cards which Wizards has committed to never reprint which in many cases are integral to a formats function.
Colt complaining about costs on mana bases is not similar to the reserved list as a motivation for Modern.
Spirits
Well, the problem is the same between legacy and modern when it comes to the price of the staples, but the forces keeping those prices high are a bit different. In the case of fetch lands the crux of the issue is that the demand for the cards due to tournament / competitive play is very high compared to the number of cards available and when they reprinted the cards the price dip was temporary because the supply of the card still couldn't deal with the demand. Legacy cards are high cost because of the same forces, only in this case the supply is very small as is the number of buyers with little hope of any reprints.
The only hope frontier has at avoiding moderns fate is to either have cards that are heavily reprinted over and over, or have a larger number of equally viable options that have modest reprints. Modern basically has no chance of becoming affordable for the average player due to wizards being so reprint averse. Even if they keep doing modest reprints with modern masters and eternal masters that won't drop prices down to levels that most players could afford.
Modern really isn't worth playing, though. Modern is basically as broken as standard is, only it has diversity because the number of mechanically over powered cards allows for a meta that is just on a different level of speed and play from standard. The trouble with the format is that due to that power it is very swingy, the number of viable options per deck is extremely low, and the supply is not very good on some of them due to being from older sets.
Also, the modern forum gang probably know me more for my rants on pricing than anything else. Id Surge is among those people so keep that in mind when you see his posts referencing me. I have a long standing history of being pro-reprint / lower prices and always have complained about prices in modern since coming back to the game two years ago.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
lol ok.
I tried to keep you off the ignore list, but its simply not worth it.
Spirits
I dislike the idea of Flecths because as a student it was really hard for me to acquire some and it greatly affected my range of deck option to choose from. I would also try to cycle in a few tournament before selling the deck for money which mostly end up in me losing half my money but allowed me to eat.
If you look at modern half the cost is the mana base.
Khans feel overpowered to me with cards already banned and I just don't think having those cards in a new format would makes sense because that block would simply define the meta.
Having it start at magic origin would make sense, the standard feel would imo come from khans not magic origin.
Something that might sound strange would be to pick good blocks over taking the last X blocks. There is old block that aren't so costy and are really fun to play with. For exemple Kamigawa,
I think we need to remove fletch land from frontier.
Personally, I'm not playing a format that doesn't have at least Journey to Nowhere, Mana Leak, Doom Blade, Lightning Strike, Rampant Growth and Tectonic Edge.
The format needs those cards right now more than ever because the more recent sets just have a complete lack of good removal. If they start printing better spells once more we should be okay to not include m15 onward. The big lesson to be learned in modern is never start a format from an arbitrary starting point. For modern they literally made it based on the new card background, which got the format stuck with 8th edition onwards. Frontier is doing the exact same thing with M15. If they really wanted to start the format right and include m15 it needs Theros block.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Modern vs Legacy is not a matter of costs, it's a matter of politics. Politics prevent dual lands from being printed. Nothing prevents fetchlands from being printed and therefore making rules based on their current cost is inherently flawed because said cost is mutable.
I think Frontier should start at Origins. it is clearly the set where there was a strong shift in the way sets were designed, marking the point where a new era began. Yes there are nice and fun cards in Khans and M15 but we will have nice cards going forward, especially once the reprint sets return next year.
That being said, I don't think Frontier is going to make it. Modern seems to have calmed down for the moment, and Standard isn't doing as badly as it was a year ago.
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
Case in point, if they made a format that is basically a rotation except the majority of cards keep getting reprinted via the sets that are legal for the format, they can manage the card pool and let go of cards they no longer want without banning them, exile tons of chaff from the format, and probably prevent the perfect bacon weave effect that has happened in Modern.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think putting it in actually has some benefits. Frontier is defined by grindy combo decks the way Modern was at its inception, and getting the ability to stop those combos in the new Force of X cards makes control better.
From Return to Ravnica onwards with fetchlands banned is the new official format.
Maybe conceptually the same. But Frontier was introduced with what, 10 legal sets or something like that? Compared to Pioneer being announced with 29 legal sets? I suspect the formats, comparatively, will be drastically different from each other - regardless of if fetches were legal or not.
THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE