While I am not at this time endorsing post modern, I however think there needs to come a time where modern gets a new starting point. Besides how old do the cards in use need to be in order to retain the "modern" title? Speculating, I do suspect a new starting point anywhere from 2019-2020.
You probably aren't too far off on that prediction. If pressure keeps up they could start it sooner, but they need something to rotate first and it's pretty likely they'd start the new format from BFZ and up. They could include Magic: Origins, but given the print run on that set and the fact it is essentially the last core set before they started up the new storyline they are most likely going to start the new age of non-rotating with the Justice League.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
True. That would make sense and help reduce the cost barrier of entry since fetches would be painful to obtain if you don't already have them. I wish I hadn't sold my cards though.. but thinking about that, I was thinking about the large growth magic saw with Innistrad or RTR and Frontier would be a nice way to reward those players that held onto their cards and have stuck with the game even if they would be cherry picking off of new sets. Wizards needs to keep as many of those growth spurt players around as they can in times of player base decline.
True. That would make sense and help reduce the cost barrier of entry since fetches would be painful to obtain if you don't already have them. I wish I hadn't sold my cards though.. but thinking about that, I was thinking about the large growth magic saw with Innistrad or RTR and Frontier would be a nice way to reward those players that held onto their cards and have stuck with the game even if they would be cherry picking off of new sets. Wizards needs to keep as many of those growth spurt players around as they can in times of player base decline.
It's less to do with the cost of the fetches and more so to do with Wizards desire to make the next modern different from the original. The fetchlands basically define modern gameplay and I'm surprised we don't see regular reprints of those in modern supplementary products.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If you are still suprised about that, you probably will never learn and understand the ways of the wizards.
What the heck?
When I say surprised, it's being disappointed with a company that long lost touch with the people they used to sell to in favor of a completely new audience they wanted to invent.
When people get blinded by success they often do stupid things like what we've seen the last year with Magic and from those mistakes opportunities arise for people, both good and ill. I tend to view Frontier as a good opportunity taken by vendors that benefits the players as well by giving people a fresh format to work with. That and when your most expensive card at the moment in the format is about 35 usd vs 120 usd in modern it's still far better than the prior on cost of entry.
The problem with Wizards card printings is that they refuse to put money into support of the eternal formats in a meaningful way and over extended themselves with secondary products like conspiracy, planechase, and tons of precon products that just have no enduring appeal due to nerfing them so hard. The part that wizards has failed to realize is that the product needs time to exist on the market so people can focus on opening that product. If they release so many sets consecutively than you end up with excess sealed product that will never see the light of day. It's like they moved to a two set block to give the sets more time to breath, but then jammed all the space they gave themselves with even more sets. It makes zero sense. No one has infinite disposable income and time to keep breaking open so many products consecutively.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Search up how extended fell from grace and how we got modern. One day you wake up and all your cards are garbage. While all your other cards are valuable. Some people stocking up on khans fetches and BFZ duals and other possible Frontier staples such as Fatal Push. Get ready for writings like "Modern was steered by bla bla and so we need change bla bla..." I was there when Extended was castrated and left to die in the gutter. Modern's fate will be the same by the looks of it and ones who stockpile will get rich. The next time you trade your dead T2 cards think again in terms of Frontier because if the pattern is to be followed, it is what will happen.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics, and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.
Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
Frontier sounds like people want to bring back extended.
We want a format that is open to more brewing than rigid Modern or Eternal formats. For the record, I have no problem with fetches so long as this format does not contain Shocks as well. The biggest problem with Modern is not that fetches are accessible but more so great mana fixing in shocks allow degenerate mana bases.
Then let's bring back seven year Extended that rotates every three years. You get to play your cards and deck for much longer through a consistently changing meta game, but by the time it gets stale it'll rotate. That way you can have fetch/shock mana bases in there but it won't be forever. It'll rotate before we get to the point of wanting a completely new format.
Frontier sounds like people want to bring back extended.
We want a format that is open to more brewing than rigid Modern or Eternal formats. For the record, I have no problem with fetches so long as this format does not contain Shocks as well. The biggest problem with Modern is not that fetches are accessible but more so great mana fixing in shocks allow degenerate mana bases.
Sounds like you're describing Standard with only 3 decks worth playing and if you're not playing them then you will lose..... There's over 30 different deck types in Modern alone and that doesn't include all the crazy things that has even seen top 8s like 8 rack and even Suicide Zoo got a slot. Even a new deck type running Walking Ballistas and Rite of Passage combo. Kari Zev's Expertise is breaking things... Sram in Puresteel Cheerios. The list gets bonkers, I've even seen arcbound workers in a green based deck followed buy Ravagers with Hardened Scales and other crazy things.
The list gets even zanier with Legacy, because there's several decks, archetypes, and not all of them run blue or green or whatever else...
Narnam Renegade and Renegade Rallier are cool pieces... I went 5-0-1 with the Walking Rite because of things...
Modern has Blood Moon which keeps greedy manabases in check. It also has Ghost Quarter, Tec Edge, and Surgical Extraction which tears apart combo decks.
Modern has Stony Silence which keeps artifact decks in check. It also has Leyline of the Void, and many other things.
I play Modern at least 4 times a week, Frontier once or twice a week, Legacy twice a month, Vintage once a month, and Standard, I sometimes play it and then I give it up because it never changes because it's always been the same thing over and over with only a few decks dominating because the hate isn't there and it's less and less interactive than ever.
Frontier is a bridge between Modern and Standard. Haruya even stated this as the reason he created the format because it was very difficult to get modern staples.
Frontier also has no need to ban anything because anything is possible. With Tormod's Crypt as the only viable graveyard removal I am against Khans and M15 being removed. Even Anafenza helps slow down graveyard decks.
Frontier has 12 viable decks, and a bunch of ideas that just doesn't work. With the perfect manabase that can't be disrupted there's no reason why you should have even a single basic land in your deck.
Standard has 3 deck types, vehicles break things. Marvel breaks things. Cat Lady breaks every standard rule. And not enough can stop the insanity of Delirium either...
Modern Master 2017 will be lowering many barriers to people who want to migrate into Modern.
Legacy? Know the difference between Modern and Legacy infect? 6 cards. You don't need Trops to play Legacy infect.
D&T is easy to get into, all the cards are there and easily obtainable. Hatebears is fun to play. Eldrazi is nasty.
Legacy Dredge costs less than the best standard decks. Legacy Burn costs slightly more. The only difference with legacy Jund and Zoo are mana bases. Elves are nasty, but you can get away with only 1 or 2 Cradles. The list goes on and on.
I have a vintage deck that costs less than a grand, course with 15 proxies for tournaments I can literally play anything. But my less than 1k vintage? Hatebears. I prefer Oath, Eldrazi, Burn, and Goblins.
Again, Standard does not have the diversity of any of these formats. It's so bad right now there's a card shop in Sacramento that only hosts FNM Modern which fires with over 30 people on average (and they all run different styles of decks and I own 4 different Modern decks) every week, 2-3 Drafts, and Legacy is played on weekends there. Standard as far as Great Escapes is concerned, is dead because it's been the same nonsense for the past 5 years where only a few decks dominate.
Modern is rigid, but not because of card choice. It's globally known as the most prohibitive competitive format financially currently existing in Magic the Gathering largely due to Wizards depending on investors to stabilize prices on the second hand market instead of handling things through frequent reprinting of high demand cards. The only format more expensive is Legacy and vintage, both of which are extremely niche formats at this point in time.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Ebay and TCGPlayer would like to have a word with you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If it was prohibitive, which was the point of your post before the edit, then those and many other sites would not turn over large amounts of product.
Very clearly, they do. Just because children cannot afford top end cards does not mean it's prohibitive to many many more people who are paying, and playing.
Take a look at all the people buying multiple boxes of modern masters.
If it was prohibitive, which was the point of your post before the edit, then those and many other sites would not turn over large amounts of product.
Very clearly, they do. Just because children cannot afford top end cards does not mean it's prohibitive to many many more people who are paying, and playing.
Take a look at all the people buying multiple boxes of modern masters.
Quite prohibitive, indeed.
+1'ed your post because of the goof up on my part with posting. Late night posts = bad quality of discussion it seems. Keep in mind the people who buy boxes of modern masters are not the same people who are buying singles or buying standard boxes all the time, nor are they necessarily people who play the game. The people I talk about are those like myself who are casual players who don't head in to FNM all the time to play, that want stable prices and a company that is committed to creating a price bracket for where they want cards to sit. I remember reading someone in another thread mentioning that modern has a degenerate mana-base with shocks and fetches, which is completely untrue. The only degenerate thing with moderns shock and fetch mana base is the cost of said mana-base and the feeling players have of requiring these lands to play the format.
I really think that Wizards is trying to fix the price problem on the second hand market by slowly bringing down the prices instead of crashing them, otherwise they would have never printed Tarmogoyf in modern masters 2017. People are worried about wizards creating Chronicles all over again, but what would really happen if wizards printed a set to oblivion that had 249 cards of extreme value printed is a price crash and a huge increase on demand for cards not in the print run. So instead of fixing the costs of modern, you end up with something like Karn Liberated being a fifteen dollar rare and the urza ramp lands skyrocketing to 20-25 usd each. They have to print cards in a certain way to bring prices down and eventually get them stable, and it looks like they are attempting that.
Formats like frontier are an outlet for people that want a more hasty solution to the pricing issue. There are no expensive lands over 30 usd a piece, their are tons of modern playable cards in frontier and more than enough to build with, etc. There's also a lot more room for deck building innovation in Frontier than there ever will be in modern right now, simply because deck brewing in modern requires either heavy use of proxies or digital software.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You probably aren't too far off on that prediction. If pressure keeps up they could start it sooner, but they need something to rotate first and it's pretty likely they'd start the new format from BFZ and up. They could include Magic: Origins, but given the print run on that set and the fact it is essentially the last core set before they started up the new storyline they are most likely going to start the new age of non-rotating with the Justice League.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It's less to do with the cost of the fetches and more so to do with Wizards desire to make the next modern different from the original. The fetchlands basically define modern gameplay and I'm surprised we don't see regular reprints of those in modern supplementary products.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
What the heck?
When I say surprised, it's being disappointed with a company that long lost touch with the people they used to sell to in favor of a completely new audience they wanted to invent.
When people get blinded by success they often do stupid things like what we've seen the last year with Magic and from those mistakes opportunities arise for people, both good and ill. I tend to view Frontier as a good opportunity taken by vendors that benefits the players as well by giving people a fresh format to work with. That and when your most expensive card at the moment in the format is about 35 usd vs 120 usd in modern it's still far better than the prior on cost of entry.
The problem with Wizards card printings is that they refuse to put money into support of the eternal formats in a meaningful way and over extended themselves with secondary products like conspiracy, planechase, and tons of precon products that just have no enduring appeal due to nerfing them so hard. The part that wizards has failed to realize is that the product needs time to exist on the market so people can focus on opening that product. If they release so many sets consecutively than you end up with excess sealed product that will never see the light of day. It's like they moved to a two set block to give the sets more time to breath, but then jammed all the space they gave themselves with even more sets. It makes zero sense. No one has infinite disposable income and time to keep breaking open so many products consecutively.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics,
and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
We want a format that is open to more brewing than rigid Modern or Eternal formats. For the record, I have no problem with fetches so long as this format does not contain Shocks as well. The biggest problem with Modern is not that fetches are accessible but more so great mana fixing in shocks allow degenerate mana bases.
Sounds like you're describing Standard with only 3 decks worth playing and if you're not playing them then you will lose..... There's over 30 different deck types in Modern alone and that doesn't include all the crazy things that has even seen top 8s like 8 rack and even Suicide Zoo got a slot. Even a new deck type running Walking Ballistas and Rite of Passage combo. Kari Zev's Expertise is breaking things... Sram in Puresteel Cheerios. The list gets bonkers, I've even seen arcbound workers in a green based deck followed buy Ravagers with Hardened Scales and other crazy things.
The list gets even zanier with Legacy, because there's several decks, archetypes, and not all of them run blue or green or whatever else...
Narnam Renegade and Renegade Rallier are cool pieces... I went 5-0-1 with the Walking Rite because of things...
Modern has Blood Moon which keeps greedy manabases in check. It also has Ghost Quarter, Tec Edge, and Surgical Extraction which tears apart combo decks.
Modern has Stony Silence which keeps artifact decks in check. It also has Leyline of the Void, and many other things.
I play Modern at least 4 times a week, Frontier once or twice a week, Legacy twice a month, Vintage once a month, and Standard, I sometimes play it and then I give it up because it never changes because it's always been the same thing over and over with only a few decks dominating because the hate isn't there and it's less and less interactive than ever.
Frontier is a bridge between Modern and Standard. Haruya even stated this as the reason he created the format because it was very difficult to get modern staples.
Frontier also has no need to ban anything because anything is possible. With Tormod's Crypt as the only viable graveyard removal I am against Khans and M15 being removed. Even Anafenza helps slow down graveyard decks.
Frontier has 12 viable decks, and a bunch of ideas that just doesn't work. With the perfect manabase that can't be disrupted there's no reason why you should have even a single basic land in your deck.
Standard has 3 deck types, vehicles break things. Marvel breaks things. Cat Lady breaks every standard rule. And not enough can stop the insanity of Delirium either...
Modern Master 2017 will be lowering many barriers to people who want to migrate into Modern.
Legacy? Know the difference between Modern and Legacy infect? 6 cards. You don't need Trops to play Legacy infect.
D&T is easy to get into, all the cards are there and easily obtainable. Hatebears is fun to play. Eldrazi is nasty.
Legacy Dredge costs less than the best standard decks. Legacy Burn costs slightly more. The only difference with legacy Jund and Zoo are mana bases. Elves are nasty, but you can get away with only 1 or 2 Cradles. The list goes on and on.
I have a vintage deck that costs less than a grand, course with 15 proxies for tournaments I can literally play anything. But my less than 1k vintage? Hatebears. I prefer Oath, Eldrazi, Burn, and Goblins.
Again, Standard does not have the diversity of any of these formats. It's so bad right now there's a card shop in Sacramento that only hosts FNM Modern which fires with over 30 people on average (and they all run different styles of decks and I own 4 different Modern decks) every week, 2-3 Drafts, and Legacy is played on weekends there. Standard as far as Great Escapes is concerned, is dead because it's been the same nonsense for the past 5 years where only a few decks dominate.
Spirits
Modern is rigid, but not because of card choice. It's globally known as the most prohibitive competitive format financially currently existing in Magic the Gathering largely due to Wizards depending on investors to stabilize prices on the second hand market instead of handling things through frequent reprinting of high demand cards. The only format more expensive is Legacy and vintage, both of which are extremely niche formats at this point in time.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Spirits
Ebay and TCGPlayer would like to have a word with you.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Very clearly, they do. Just because children cannot afford top end cards does not mean it's prohibitive to many many more people who are paying, and playing.
Take a look at all the people buying multiple boxes of modern masters.
Quite prohibitive, indeed.
Spirits
+1'ed your post because of the goof up on my part with posting. Late night posts = bad quality of discussion it seems. Keep in mind the people who buy boxes of modern masters are not the same people who are buying singles or buying standard boxes all the time, nor are they necessarily people who play the game. The people I talk about are those like myself who are casual players who don't head in to FNM all the time to play, that want stable prices and a company that is committed to creating a price bracket for where they want cards to sit. I remember reading someone in another thread mentioning that modern has a degenerate mana-base with shocks and fetches, which is completely untrue. The only degenerate thing with moderns shock and fetch mana base is the cost of said mana-base and the feeling players have of requiring these lands to play the format.
I really think that Wizards is trying to fix the price problem on the second hand market by slowly bringing down the prices instead of crashing them, otherwise they would have never printed Tarmogoyf in modern masters 2017. People are worried about wizards creating Chronicles all over again, but what would really happen if wizards printed a set to oblivion that had 249 cards of extreme value printed is a price crash and a huge increase on demand for cards not in the print run. So instead of fixing the costs of modern, you end up with something like Karn Liberated being a fifteen dollar rare and the urza ramp lands skyrocketing to 20-25 usd each. They have to print cards in a certain way to bring prices down and eventually get them stable, and it looks like they are attempting that.
Formats like frontier are an outlet for people that want a more hasty solution to the pricing issue. There are no expensive lands over 30 usd a piece, their are tons of modern playable cards in frontier and more than enough to build with, etc. There's also a lot more room for deck building innovation in Frontier than there ever will be in modern right now, simply because deck brewing in modern requires either heavy use of proxies or digital software.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You'll never convince me that Modern doesn't have more brew potential, it's simply not in the cards, literally.
The costs as you note are slowly being drawn down, the support for the format exists, and it's depth and breadth is simply greater.
I just don't like blatantly false statements being portrayed as fact do let's not?
Spirits