You're suggesting WotC is manipulating Hareyuya behind the scenes? I don't see why we need a conspiracy theory when a major vendor already has an incentive to generate interest in a large catalog of rotated standard rares.
Also: some of these singles (Jace, Anafenza, Hangarback) spiked this week. Whether that's speculation or more players buying in time will tell, but I'm sure attention from major sites such at MTGGoldfish hasn't hurt.
My thoughts aren't exactly that Wizards is manipulating Hareyuya behind the scenes intentionally, it's just that they are rolling out the carpet and the LGS decided to pounce on it early. So really, it's more so someone acting on wizards plan before wizards actually got to do anything with it or even decided it was the route they want to take.
Lets face it, if we look at the modern forum (which is composed of the biggest supporters of non-rotating formats), are they big behind frontier? I think that frontier hits the younger players of magic fine, but it is missing the older players who already have cards from prior sets as well. That's why my hypothesis is that the real format that wizards will create will be something more inclusive. Frontier is more of a subset.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
There's no need for WotC to change Modern in any significant way anytime soon. Maybe they ban or unban some cards here and there in the next couple years, maybe they take it out of the PPTQ/RPTQ rotation because the Pros don't like it that much, but the next 2-3 years of Modern is probably a "no news is good news" sort of situation. If Modern does start to have actual serious problems from the growing card pool (aside from complaints of "I can't afford the deck I want to play", which will fix themselves if the format becomes less popular), it's a lot less disruptive and a lot more logical to just take a few older sets out by moving the completely arbitrary dividing line forward (from 8th Ed/Mirrodin to Magic 2010/Lorywn or something like that), rather than come up with a new completely arbitrary dividing line like the addition of holograms. I'm sure Frontier is fine for those who want to play it, but I wouldn't expect it (or anything like it) to replace Modern the way Modern replaced Extended.
Take a look at your local shop and tell me how many people there are under 20? I was just thinking about this the other day, and the regular FNM-goers here are all over 20 and have played since the early 2000s or even before that. There are no young players trying to get serious with the game. Why would they? There are dozens of free alternatives in this day and age.
This is not at all the case in my area. There are a couple high school students that play Modern at one store every Friday, and a couple (upper) elementary students that play Standard at the other store. There are, yes, a lot of young players without the focus that scrub out against the older players who are more competitive, but there are also a half-dozen minors who I would consider it a decent challenge to play, and another half-dozen who are sloppy but getting better. Budget is sometimes an issue, but the better they get at playing the game the better they get at analyzing cards and knowing which ones to hang on to/which ones to trade, and can start slowly building up a collection on a limited budget.
I think it's a great game for kids (over maybe 11 or so), even at competitive levels, because it teaches so much about math and problem-solving and sportsmanship. But to your main point, if investing in a game is a concern for a new player, I would counsel them to play Limited for a while before picking up a Constructed deck. Or just lend them a Constructed deck.
I've read an interesting post on Reddit about Hareruya promoting frontier the other day. It was from a guy who claimed that he is living in Japan for 5 years now, and that the Frontier format is not supposed to be a cash grab, but an attempt to build a healthier community. His reasoning was basically that the Japanese have a tendency towards addictive behaviour. A lot of Japanese Mtg players supposedly can't control themselves and are buying cards even if they can't afford them. So Hareruya steps in and tries to create a format for players who are already invested into the game, but can't really commit financially to playing modern or even standard. Now I don't know if this is entirely true or not, but I am inclined to believe it. Why? Simply because while origins Jace was spiking hardcore in the last few weeks, Hareruya, the shop that supposedly orchestrated frontier as an elaborate cash-grab, had a sale on Jace. The price was a ''measly'' 25 dollars, meanwhile the card was spiking to 40 on European and American markets. Also as a result Jace is completely sold-out on Hareruya's website atm. Maybe this doesn't mean anything, but I do genuinely believe that Hareruya only has good intentions with the format.
That said, I don't think frontier is a good solution. Literally the only thing it has going for it right now is that it is easier to get into than both modern and standard...And sadly, that's enough. Frontier is just a reaction to the game getting more and more expensive. I come from a rather small country where Mtg isn't that popular, so this evidence is very anecdotal. But I doubt it is much different all around the world. Take a look at your local shop and tell me how many people there are under 20? I was just thinking about this the other day, and the regular FNM-goers here are all over 20 and have played since the early 2000s or even before that. There are no young players trying to get serious with the game. Why would they? There are dozens of free alternatives in this day and age. I remember talking to a friend who wanted to get into MTG, and was asking me about which colors are the best and how much do good decks cost. I said that they were very expensive. And he said that he ''isn't afraid of paying as much as 50 euros-better than getting completely dumpstered''. For this money you couldn't even get a playset of Gideons today. People just aren't willing to pay hundreds of dollars for a game these days when most of them are free to play anyway. This creates a double-barrier for new players, since not only do they have to pay large amounts of money, the fact that most competitive players are longtime players, means that they also have to play players way above their skill-level and will probably get trashed. The game is healthy on two sides of the spectrum-the kitchen table Magic and hardcore Magic. But the more you move to the middle-to the not so new player trying to get into FNM-the more unhealthy the game becomes.
There is no way Frontier fixes any of these problems in the longterm. It might be a bandaid for now, but once (if) the format becomes recognized, it won't be immune to price spikes and speculators. Frontier rigt now is just a symptom of a larger problem, and the only way to fix the symptoms is for Wotc to start doing something about the ridiculous prices.
That's an interesting perspective. Honestly, I think the purchasing of cards is less an addiction as much as a compulsion due to the spiky nature of the second hand market. It happens in the US as well, it's just that the US culture is much more "everything is on your own shoulders" than in japan, where things are more community driven. The Japanese are less about the individual and more the group, though this shouldn't be taken as if Japanese individuals don't have fun personalities and a sense of individualism themselves.
Private Mod Note
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You're suggesting WotC is manipulating Hareyuya behind the scenes? I don't see why we need a conspiracy theory when a major vendor already has an incentive to generate interest in a large catalog of rotated standard rares.
Also: some of these singles (Jace, Anafenza, Hangarback) spiked this week. Whether that's speculation or more players buying in time will tell, but I'm sure attention from major sites such at MTGGoldfish hasn't hurt.
My thoughts aren't exactly that Wizards is manipulating Hareyuya behind the scenes intentionally, it's just that they are rolling out the carpet and the LGS decided to pounce on it early. So really, it's more so someone acting on wizards plan before wizards actually got to do anything with it or even decided it was the route they want to take. :)...
If that is the case then that is unethical data sharing/insider information type stuff. A company shouldn't make another company (that stands to benefit financially) aware that they're planning to do something like that before it's implemented. That didn't happen, WotC would lose a staggering amount of their player base if something like that got found out. It would be akin to someone on WotC buying out every copy of a currently banned card and then unbanning said card and reselling it at 1000 times it's previous price or something.
Stop trying to make Frontier a conspiracy theory. The hologram border is well documented as WotC response to a huge wave of decent quality counterfeit cards that were showing up from China shortly before that time, I highly doubt that WotC were thinking about killing of Modern then. As mentioned in my above paragraph, WotC would be stupid to risk telling members of the secondary market about an upcoming format as it could end up being ha huge PR nightmare for them should the player base find out about it. Frontier is simply a cool new format a store started that has caught on to a wider fan base, that is all.
I never once stated that WoTC was telling secondary marketers that a new format is coming. What I've BEEN saying is that if you put a bunch of things suggesting a new format potentially in the future someone may decide to make a format out of it. Welcome to the legally gray area of reality.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Not really surprised that Coco isn't doing as hot as it was in the last standard. It mirrors my own matches online over on Xmage with my playgroup from last week, but really they aren't playing the decks that really shine with CoCo.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I got into the format last night after reading about it and various decks in the format. Played 5 games of it on MTGO against various decks(marked as Freeform, Comments: FRONTIER). I played Jeskai Control, went 4-1, was a lot of fun.
I have been looking at it, but the main problem I see on frontier is the greedyness of the manabase. Since there is virtually no good punishment for greedy mana, most decks will end up being 4 colour good stuff. I see basically the Khans/BFZ standard here with some extra cards. This will get very stale in time cause its easier now to simply play the best cards.
I'm enjoying it because I get to play on modern'esk level of power(Company, Nahiri, Jace, Chord, DTT, TC, etc.), without real combo decks(yes yes Rally decks sure whatever). Where midrange, aggro, and control are basically it, and every archetype living it up in valuetown.
I have been looking at it, but the main problem I see on frontier is the greedyness of the manabase. Since there is virtually no good punishment for greedy mana, most decks will end up being 4 colour good stuff. I see basically the Khans/BFZ standard here with some extra cards. This will get very stale in time cause its easier now to simply play the best cards.
Most of the decks at the GPs aren't even 3 color. Atarka red has been dominating recently and actually the most dominant color right now is red due to it having the best answers to the format. That's currently going to change once Aether Revolt comes out thanks to the new one mana kill everything in sight spell, which should get control based decks a much needed shot in the arm.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I got into the format last night after reading about it and various decks in the format. Played 5 games of it on MTGO against various decks(marked as Freeform, Comments: FRONTIER). I played Jeskai Control, went 4-1, was a lot of fun.
Ulting Nahiri for Ulamog won two games lol. Ugin won 2-3 games. Nahiri and DTT were MVP's
I've been bouncing between dragon bros, Goblins, and Elves at the moment. I sort of missed the entire Dragons Standard so it's kind of fun finally getting to play with some of the tribes.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
fatal push is pretty good. tezzeret's touch has me thinking u/r scissors will become grixis scissors. plus the deck would naturally pick up unlicensed disintegration and make use of the scrounger's ability.
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Standard // nRG Aggro
Modern // Burn (main) and Living End (secondary) now Jund.
For fun check out my janky combo primer: Turn 3 Grixis Combo
"Can't beat em' Jund em'!"
It seems that frontier is a no go with fetchlands after the fatal push print. The card is absolutely bonkers and it will be a problem for the format.
Agreed.
This makes me think Khans will no longer be the starting point if ever a frontier format were to take off. Maybe BFZ instead. Also eliminates Rally combo, COCo, and the delve spells
Actually, the format needed Fatal push. Red was dominating on removal and black didn't have anything to answer 2 cmc threats effectively at instant speed. I mean there was Dead Weight but still.
I'm getting the distinct feeling the people who are decrying this format are people looking through a glass window and never tried to actually build and play the decks they think are going to break the format or make it unfun. I think you'll find those decks just don't work as well as you think they do.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Isn't the whole point of the format that it starts at the point where the card frame changed? If not, what's the point? The format is already going, there are literally tournaments running on a weekly basis, we can't change the foundations of a format because one card seems powerful. If Push proves to be too strong it'll get banned, end of story. It's a terrible plan to decide that because you guys don't like interactions between cards that therefore the format needs to start from scratch at a new point. If that's the case good luck getting it off of the ground because it'll be dead before you decide where you want it to start from. What happens when the enemy fetches get reprinted down the road, does the format start again from scratch?
qft
Seriously, I'm glad that some of the people in this forum aren't actually in charge of the format. "Oh man. One card was printed. Let's remove an entire set from the format's legality!" I hope they don't reprint Terramorphic Expanse! I don't think the format can handle it with Evolving Wilds!
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Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
I'm waiting for the inevitable freak out when they reprint Zendikar fetchlands in the near future and suddenly standard has Revolt with fetches. Have fun?
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Format seems great. My LGS has been running weekly tournaments for about two months now. Control seems unplayable, red aggro decks seem really OP and midrange decks are all abzan, although nobody can seem to figure out which build is best. Its odd, I actually went down to 3 rhino in mine and trim them a lot in SB because there to slow.Flayer has been the best card in the deck by MILES. Rally and COCO are no where to be seen after the first few weeks, dig has been a liability and the only successful cruise decks weve had are U/R prowess and Temur Prowess. The formats removal all kind of seems to inefficient for the threats, theres like impulse, and then everything else just is like two CMC and then your behind. Languish decks seem like they could be great, but your still folding to threat efficient midrange decks. The format seems very very proactive, but you can't really turtle and durdle. Seems great.
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Former U/R twin player.
We will rebuild.
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My thoughts aren't exactly that Wizards is manipulating Hareyuya behind the scenes intentionally, it's just that they are rolling out the carpet and the LGS decided to pounce on it early. So really, it's more so someone acting on wizards plan before wizards actually got to do anything with it or even decided it was the route they want to take.
Lets face it, if we look at the modern forum (which is composed of the biggest supporters of non-rotating formats), are they big behind frontier? I think that frontier hits the younger players of magic fine, but it is missing the older players who already have cards from prior sets as well. That's why my hypothesis is that the real format that wizards will create will be something more inclusive. Frontier is more of a subset.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This is not at all the case in my area. There are a couple high school students that play Modern at one store every Friday, and a couple (upper) elementary students that play Standard at the other store. There are, yes, a lot of young players without the focus that scrub out against the older players who are more competitive, but there are also a half-dozen minors who I would consider it a decent challenge to play, and another half-dozen who are sloppy but getting better. Budget is sometimes an issue, but the better they get at playing the game the better they get at analyzing cards and knowing which ones to hang on to/which ones to trade, and can start slowly building up a collection on a limited budget.
I think it's a great game for kids (over maybe 11 or so), even at competitive levels, because it teaches so much about math and problem-solving and sportsmanship. But to your main point, if investing in a game is a concern for a new player, I would counsel them to play Limited for a while before picking up a Constructed deck. Or just lend them a Constructed deck.
That's an interesting perspective. Honestly, I think the purchasing of cards is less an addiction as much as a compulsion due to the spiky nature of the second hand market. It happens in the US as well, it's just that the US culture is much more "everything is on your own shoulders" than in japan, where things are more community driven. The Japanese are less about the individual and more the group, though this shouldn't be taken as if Japanese individuals don't have fun personalities and a sense of individualism themselves.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I never once stated that WoTC was telling secondary marketers that a new format is coming. What I've BEEN saying is that if you put a bunch of things suggesting a new format potentially in the future someone may decide to make a format out of it. Welcome to the legally gray area of reality.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
MTG Goldfish record of the cup
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tournament/hareruya-frontier-cup-2016-12-25#online
Not really surprised that Coco isn't doing as hot as it was in the last standard. It mirrors my own matches online over on Xmage with my playgroup from last week, but really they aren't playing the decks that really shine with CoCo.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This is what I played:
4 Anticipate
3 Dig Through Time
1 Treasure Cruise
4 Declaration in Stone
3 Searing Spear
4 Fiery Impulse
4 Radiant Flames
1 Fumigate
2 Negate
1 Overwhelming Denial
2 Dissipate
Planewalkers (5)
3 Nahiri, he Harbinger
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Lands (25)
2 Island
2 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Mystic Monastery
4 Wandering Fumarole
3 Prairie Stream
4 Flooded Strand
3 Spirebluff Canal
2 Polluted Delta
2 Negate
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Searing Spear
1 Crumble to Dust
3 Fate Forgotten
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Roast
1 Hallowed Moonlight
1 Fumigate
Ulting Nahiri for Ulamog won two games lol. Ugin won 2-3 games. Nahiri and DTT were MVP's
Most of the decks at the GPs aren't even 3 color. Atarka red has been dominating recently and actually the most dominant color right now is red due to it having the best answers to the format. That's currently going to change once Aether Revolt comes out thanks to the new one mana kill everything in sight spell, which should get control based decks a much needed shot in the arm.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I've been bouncing between dragon bros, Goblins, and Elves at the moment. I sort of missed the entire Dragons Standard so it's kind of fun finally getting to play with some of the tribes.
4 Hangarback Walker
3 Soulfire Grand Master
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2 Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury
Spells (18)
2 Fiery Impulse
4 Draconic Roar
2 Lightning Strike
4 Crackling Doom
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Radiant Flames
2 Read the Bones
1 Canopy Vista
1 Cinder Glade
1 Forest
4 Inspiring Vantage
2 Mountain
1 Needle Spires
1 Plains
2 Shambling Vent
2 Smoldering Marsh
1 Swamp
3 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
Personally I like elves a bit more right now, but this is the list I got for the moment. I left sideboard out since it's sort of meta dependant.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Okay, oversight on my part on the build, I edited it to 2 Polluted Delta.
Modern // Burn (main) and Living End (secondary) now Jund.
For fun check out my janky combo primer: Turn 3 Grixis Combo
"Can't beat em' Jund em'!"
Agreed.
This makes me think Khans will no longer be the starting point if ever a frontier format were to take off. Maybe BFZ instead. Also eliminates Rally combo, COCo, and the delve spells
Khans really breaks it but it makes me sad that will lose some cards from 2015 like Rabblemaster :/
I'm getting the distinct feeling the people who are decrying this format are people looking through a glass window and never tried to actually build and play the decks they think are going to break the format or make it unfun. I think you'll find those decks just don't work as well as you think they do.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
qft
Seriously, I'm glad that some of the people in this forum aren't actually in charge of the format. "Oh man. One card was printed. Let's remove an entire set from the format's legality!" I hope they don't reprint Terramorphic Expanse! I don't think the format can handle it with Evolving Wilds!
My 720 Peasant Cube
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
We will rebuild.