its just crazy how this deck wins even vs t2 decks. Are there even any cards to put into this deck outside of block? It seems really fast and hard hitting, and just overall works great.
While I do agree that the Liege could be replaced by Ajani or Door or even his Elven counterpart in the build I think that Thistledown Liege might be the right choice because it is a Kithkin so it has synergy with reveal effect and Wizened Cenn, you can Mirrorweave in in the same fashion as Wizened Cenn and swing for a lot and it also has flash for some fun combat tricks that you can do.
Each has its own advantages and disadvantages and you really need to make that decision for yourself.
As I think Mirrorweave is going to be game-breaking when played properly, the Thistledown Liege has massive potential. Five creatures on the board, one being a Liege, means in an alpha strike, you have five 9/11's running at your opponent.
Agreed. It's the flash that does it. It's not as strong as a Celestial Crusader normally, but in this deck, it does the trick. Almost makes me want to think about running Somnomancer or Augury Adept.
also i know it's not much but the windbresk heaths don't change the time you can play spells
Actually, they do. Playing the spell is part of the resolution of the ability, so as long as the requirement has been met, you can play the spell. If you attack with 3+ creatures, you could wait for your opponent to block, then use Windbrisk Heights to surprise your opponent with a Liege. -Jack
1. Mutavault, this deck is really, really colour-intensive. I know the deck runs a huge amount of land but I'm still wondering if mutavault is right for the deck, it has a great curve so mutavault is only really activated in alpha-strikes when you win anyway. Or after firespout where you lose anyway.
2. How good is Surge of Thoughtweft? I've never tried it.
3. Is removal really necessary? I've noticed a lot of people wanting oblivion rings and the like. But with this deck their threats are almost irrelevant, thats part of its strength. At worst you just chump it with one of your tokens. Trading cards (O-Ring for creature) usually just ends up being bad for you.
As for the lieges I think the Thistledown Liege is far and away superior. Flash wins games far more than 3 more power ever does. When mirrorweave goes off it doesn't matter which is in play, both will kill your opponent. The Thistledown however can flash down at end of their turn and then mirrorweave your turn, not giving them a chance to react (say if they attacked last turn).
The Wilt-Leaf is better value but he comes down and starts hitting. For regular white weenie go for him, but with a deck so dependent on its combat tricks and mass tokens then Thistledown is better.
(Yes, I've only played this deck on Magic Workstation so far, I'm not really an expert on it. :))
After testing, I have come to the conclusion that wilt-leaf liege is much better than thistledown.
Imagine this scenario. You play liege, then play mirrorweave ftw. Your opponent has a lash out/nameless inversion, which isn't unlikely as those are two of the best spot removal cards in the format. and they hit your thistledown liege. They just killed your big creature, countered your win condition, and timewalked you.
You really think you have any chance of winning now?
Wilt-leaf is not only too fat to be hit with that removal, it is just fat. Playing a wilt-leaf liege into an empty field says "deal with me or I win", whereas a thistledown says "Rawr 1 point of mad aggro?".
I really love the flash on the thistledown, but if you are going to be targeting it with mirrorweave, it's just not worth it. I mean, it's close to begin with, and that just sends it waay over the edge. And believe me, I'm not happy about this. I just spent $5 on getting 3 thistledowns for nothing. But, hey, you can't let the cards you have influence your testing.
2. How good is Surge of Thoughtweft? I've never tried it.
Its good for protecting tokens from trades, but it wouldn't be worth it without the cantrip if you control any of the creatures in this deck (which is kinda necessary if you want to use this ^^;;)
I would like to test more on the leiges before we say one is just better than the other. Wilt-leaf leige dies to flame javelin easily enouth and the combat trick from the kithkin leige without mirrorweave might warrant him being played. If you are having trouble with burn killing you leige, attack with the normal buffs and wait to respond to them killing your guy by mirrorweaving everyone. If he doesn't kill your guy you can still hit for good damage and save the mirrorweave for another turn or for defence. (turning all the blocking/blocked guys into 1/1s and trading with your guys can put you at great board advantage.) I really like wilt-leaf leige, but I am wary of putting 10$ apiece (for at least 2 in the deck) for an effect that i can get somewhere else.
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originally posted bySatriani744
Wow Consume. From your story alone, whenever I get within 15 feet of a squirrel, I'm killing it. After reading the stories on this thread, I'm putting a baseball bat in my trunk to kill any animal that comes near me. Paranoid, sure, excessive, maybe, but knowing you avoided a big ass rabies shot, priceless.
I think Jelger's list is easily the best of the 3, but 26 land seems like a real lot. It runs fine on 25. I would prob play a 4th thistledown liege over a plains.
I think Wiegersma made that decision based on the fact that he has eight CIPT lands (yeah, I know.....but sometimes that Clachan needs to be tapping for a white instead of giving out +1/+1). He's also running quite a chunk of fours and fives and might have wanted to make ABSOLUTELY sure he dosen't miss a drop.
Yes, I'm aware thats what the Heights are there for, but again...sometimes you gotta do it the hard way.
I'd like to know how good Mirror Entity was for him during the event though.
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Don't read anything LaPille. Your brain will thank you later. ----> VICTORY!
Nightmare: You do realize you can play clachan untapped by revealing a kithkin, right? It's just a plains that can occasionally serve as a combat trick.
LordPenguin: Tian's deck is kind of mana light, and mutavault is like the formats number 1 super star.
Nightmare: You do realize you can play clachan untapped by revealing a kithkin, right? It's just a plains that can occasionally serve as a combat trick.
Yeah.....but I've never had one with a damn Kith in my hand.
I'm not kidding. I'm used to having to put them into play tapped.
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Don't read anything LaPille. Your brain will thank you later. ----> VICTORY!
In the block testing that we've done, 26 land is the correct # for this deck. 4 lands that are guaranteed to CiPT, and 4 that do so fairly often, in a deck that has a hard time if it's development is slowed by an entire turn because of this.
Additionally, 4 Liege is too many, 3 is definitely the correct #.
In addition to Cyan's point, Clachans are often a combat trick, so if you Reinforce with them half of the time, they can't count as real lands or you'll be forced to play them as lands too often. That's why you need the high land count. It's a way to make sure you're never mana screwed and can always hit the requisite number of four lands, while also having extras serve as a way to win creature on creature fights.
I was talking to a friend about that, and I think that WL might actually be better now. Thistledown was great when the deck was fresh and casting it surprised people, but, it has lost most of that now, and people definitely play different when you attack them w/ 4 mana open. WL Liege is an impressive guy in and of itself, though...I think that the deck should start running it, especially now that the GP is over and the cat is completely out of the bag.
I've been playing around with an alternative deck that seems to sometimes do better than those other builds, but sometimes worse. Not sure if it's possible to be a contender but it's a thought...
Thoughts? Around here the current meta is a lot of red from either shamans, elementals, etc but even so this odd synergy of calling red on Painter's Servant can mess quite a few people up with Inquisitor's Snare (which I can side out for Oblivion Ring), Oversoul and the Forger.
Plumeveil is unnecessary. Also, what is Painter's Servant doing there? It only has any synergy with BFT. ??? Other than thata, Inquisitor's Snare is a good metagame call.
Painter's Servant helps out Oversoul, Inquisitor's, and Burrenton Forge-Tender. Plumeveil is a great mirrorweave target (if you need to destroy a lot of faerie tokens) and usually won't be destroyed (4/4 flying is not so easy to get rid of) so he can be used as another creature that becomes a copy when you play Mirrorweave,
Honestly, it seems like you took a Kithkin deck, tried to turn it into WG Beats, and most likely just created a vastly worse decklist. There is no way that Kithkin runs a card like Plumeveil, Painter's Servant is woefully unnecessary, and Oversoul is too slow.
Mirrorweave on all kinds of things for the win. The card quite honestly wins games right and left.
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Each has its own advantages and disadvantages and you really need to make that decision for yourself.
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Yeah, if you are running Gaddock Teeg the Wilt-Leaf could be better, although I'm not sure that I would play Teeg in this format with so much aggro.
1. Mutavault, this deck is really, really colour-intensive. I know the deck runs a huge amount of land but I'm still wondering if mutavault is right for the deck, it has a great curve so mutavault is only really activated in alpha-strikes when you win anyway. Or after firespout where you lose anyway.
2. How good is Surge of Thoughtweft? I've never tried it.
3. Is removal really necessary? I've noticed a lot of people wanting oblivion rings and the like. But with this deck their threats are almost irrelevant, thats part of its strength. At worst you just chump it with one of your tokens. Trading cards (O-Ring for creature) usually just ends up being bad for you.
As for the lieges I think the Thistledown Liege is far and away superior. Flash wins games far more than 3 more power ever does. When mirrorweave goes off it doesn't matter which is in play, both will kill your opponent. The Thistledown however can flash down at end of their turn and then mirrorweave your turn, not giving them a chance to react (say if they attacked last turn).
The Wilt-Leaf is better value but he comes down and starts hitting. For regular white weenie go for him, but with a deck so dependent on its combat tricks and mass tokens then Thistledown is better.
(Yes, I've only played this deck on Magic Workstation so far, I'm not really an expert on it. :))
After testing, I have come to the conclusion that wilt-leaf liege is much better than thistledown.
Imagine this scenario. You play liege, then play mirrorweave ftw. Your opponent has a lash out/nameless inversion, which isn't unlikely as those are two of the best spot removal cards in the format. and they hit your thistledown liege. They just killed your big creature, countered your win condition, and timewalked you.
You really think you have any chance of winning now?
Wilt-leaf is not only too fat to be hit with that removal, it is just fat. Playing a wilt-leaf liege into an empty field says "deal with me or I win", whereas a thistledown says "Rawr 1 point of mad aggro?".
I really love the flash on the thistledown, but if you are going to be targeting it with mirrorweave, it's just not worth it. I mean, it's close to begin with, and that just sends it waay over the edge. And believe me, I'm not happy about this. I just spent $5 on getting 3 thistledowns for nothing. But, hey, you can't let the cards you have influence your testing.
Its good for protecting tokens from trades, but it wouldn't be worth it without the cantrip if you control any of the creatures in this deck (which is kinda necessary if you want to use this ^^;;)
3 Cloudgoat Ranger
4 Goldmeadow Harrier
4 Goldmeadow Stalwart
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
2 Thistledown Liege
4 Wizened Cenn
Spells (15)
2 Militia's Pride
2 Mirrorweave
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Spectral Procession
3 Surge of Thoughtweft
2 Mutavault
16 Plains
2 Rustic Clachan
4 Windbrisk Heights
2 Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile
4 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Kinsbaile Borderguard
1 Mirrorweave
2 Pollen Lullaby
1 Thistledown Liege
2 Thoughtweft Gambit
Just wanted to put that out there....
Other WW that made top 8
4 Burrenton Forge-Tender
4 Cloudgoat Ranger
2 Goldmeadow Harrier
4 Goldmeadow Stalwart
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
2 Mirror Entity
3 Thistledown Liege
4 Wizened Cenn
3 Mirrorweave
4 Spectral Procession
Land (26)
3 Mutavault
15 Plains
4 Rustic Clachan
4 Windbrisk Heights
3 Ajani Goldmane
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Pollen Lullaby
3 Reveillark
3 Wispmare
4 Burrenton Forge-Tender
4 Cloudgoat Ranger
4 Goldmeadow Stalwart
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
3 Thistledown Liege
4 Wizened Cenn
Spells (11)
2 Militia's Pride
3 Mirrorweave
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Spectral Procession
4 Mutavault
14 Plains
4 Rustic Clachan
4 Windbrisk Heights
2 Crib Swap
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Oversoul of Dusk
4 Pollen Lullaby
4 Thorn of Amethyst
Some people just love Jace a little too much
Yes, I'm aware thats what the Heights are there for, but again...sometimes you gotta do it the hard way.
I'd like to know how good Mirror Entity was for him during the event though.
Some people just love Jace a little too much
LordPenguin: Tian's deck is kind of mana light, and mutavault is like the formats number 1 super star.
Yeah.....but I've never had one with a damn Kith in my hand.
I'm not kidding. I'm used to having to put them into play tapped.
Some people just love Jace a little too much
Additionally, 4 Liege is too many, 3 is definitely the correct #.
3 Painter's Servant
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Goldmeadow Harrier
3 Plumveil
3 Cloudgoat Ranger
2 Oversoul of Dusk
4 Spectral Procession
3 Militia's Pride
2 Mirrorweave
25 Land
3 Storycircle
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Wispmare
4 Pollen Lullaby
1 Mirrorweave
Thoughts? Around here the current meta is a lot of red from either shamans, elementals, etc but even so this odd synergy of calling red on Painter's Servant can mess quite a few people up with Inquisitor's Snare (which I can side out for Oblivion Ring), Oversoul and the Forger.
Painter's Servant helps out Oversoul, Inquisitor's, and Burrenton Forge-Tender. Plumeveil is a great mirrorweave target (if you need to destroy a lot of faerie tokens) and usually won't be destroyed (4/4 flying is not so easy to get rid of) so he can be used as another creature that becomes a copy when you play Mirrorweave,
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