Rather than move the developing thread which has a lot of old information, I decided to post a representitive decklist that has 4-0'd recent daily events.
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
This deck disgusts me with how good it's turning out to be. Gnaw to the Bone is the only card I can ever remember making me rage at my monitor. Having your opponent go OOPS I GAIN 30 LIFE! OOPS FLASHBACK! Is just too much, and if I counter that they drop an army of spiders... then a 15/15 trampler >.<
My RUG control deck now has a full set of Dream Twists in the board JUST for this matchup.
Hopefully DKA will have some legitimate graveyard hate, because what we have now doesn't come close to cutting it.
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My Youtube Channel Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
"My blade slices the air, sakura petals scatter, crimson blossoms appear on the ground..."
Autumn, the season of the Harvest and Falling Leaves... Song of an unreachable dream...
How about trying to run one or 2 skaab ruinators? And possibly something like Mindshrieker?
Ruinator takes cards out of the yard thus breaks the plan. Mindshrieker is too slow and dies to geistflame.
I really didn't put too much stock in Gnaw to the Bone simply because I thought it was (A) too slow and (B) Life Gain is Normally Bad because it normally only gets 1-2 turns off of you.
Decks like Humans really have a hard time rushing when you have a cheap spell they can do nothing about that adds 5-6 uncontested turns to your clock (which is enough time to bring the aformentioned Blasphemous Act which I also discounted for being too slow online).
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Last night I ran this deck in a daily and faced the mirror round 1. Game 2 he sideboarded undead alchemist in.
Holy crap is that thing good against us. If that picks up in sideboards we're gonna need some answers.
I think Gnaw to the Bone is essential for this deck to get the actual late game when this deck gets to business. Boneyard Warm sucks without evasion but can get huge. I just don't know how this deck gets wins if not for the susprise and shock value.
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I like current block formats the most.
Its so limited to its power scale against other formats.
Block constructed should be a more competitive format like it was back in Champions or Ravnica.
I think Gnaw to the Bone is essential for this deck to get the actual late game when this deck gets to business. Boneyard Warm sucks without evasion but can get huge. I just don't know how this deck gets wins if not for the susprise and shock value.
What's more surprising is that the deck isn't employing Garruk at least in the sideboard. I'm guessing the issue is getting him flipped without gettin him killed.
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I didn't see that the wolf tokens stay in play...wow. That is a good deck to base off of but why no Forbidden Alchemy??? It is reach and an enabler that actually does more than Dream Twist.
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I like current block formats the most.
Its so limited to its power scale against other formats.
Block constructed should be a more competitive format like it was back in Champions or Ravnica.
I didn't see that the wolf tokens stay in play...wow. That is a good deck to base off of but why no Forbidden Alchemy??? It is reach and an enabler that actually does more than Dream Twist.
It's a little too slow. You want to dump creatures before turn 3 so that you can land a T3 Splinterfright; but I can see it being played in small numbers.
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Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
I threw this deck together just now and, wow. I'm really impressed. Gnaw to the Bone, Blasphemous Act, Silent Departure and a relatively low curve make me feel very safe against aggro, and the high density of flashback cards makes me feel pretty good for the long-game against a control deck. I'm pretty excited to see where this deck goes.
Honestly, I've been the least impressed with Kessig Cagebreaker and Spider Spawning. They're both amazing effects in this deck, but I keep winning on the back of 1 or 2 Boneyard Wurm[s]. I'd almost rather keep the curve very low and include a Dissipate or more removal.
This definitely looks like a deck up my alley. The other good thing about it is it's very budget-friendly as it doesn't play any of the money cards in the block. Definitely going to put this together and try it out.
But, I must say, am I the only person that just gets mildly annoyed at how any graveyard-based self-mill type deck is referred to as "Dredge", even when the actual dredge mechanic is so far removed from the format?
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Winner of the SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Jul 26-28, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Las Vegas, NV, Dec 13-15, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Aug 28-30, 2015
Winner of SCG Worcester Team Sealed Open with Gerard Fabiano and Curtis Sheu, September 28, 2013
This definitely looks like a deck up my alley. The other good thing about it is it's very budget-friendly as it doesn't play any of the money cards in the block. Definitely going to put this together and try it out.
But, I must say, am I the only person that just gets mildly annoyed at how any graveyard-based self-mill type deck is referred to as "Dredge", even when the actual dredge mechanic is so far removed from the format?
Just like any strategy that runs more creatures than Goyf = Zoo.
But what do you call it that's easily understood. This is the internet Dredge is shorter and easier than "Self Mill" which has a Lab Maniac feel to it.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Just like any strategy that runs more creatures than Goyf = Zoo.
Yeah, but Zoo isn't a specific mechanic. If there was a deck built around self-discard, I wouldn't call it "Madness" unless it actually made use of that mechanic, but maybe that's just me.
But what do you call it that's easily understood. This is the internet Dredge is shorter and easier than "Self Mill" which has a Lab Maniac feel to it.
I don't know. I wasn't saying that I have a better name. It's not a big deal, just a little pet peeve, heh.
On the Undead Alchemist topic, is it a card worth fitting some into the board just for the mirror? Also, any general sideboard plans based on the decklist in the OP? What cards to bring in and what to take out against the most prevelant decks in the format?
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Winner of the SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Jul 26-28, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Las Vegas, NV, Dec 13-15, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Aug 28-30, 2015
Winner of SCG Worcester Team Sealed Open with Gerard Fabiano and Curtis Sheu, September 28, 2013
I threw this deck together just now and, wow. I'm really impressed. Gnaw to the Bone, Blasphemous Act, Silent Departure and a relatively low curve make me feel very safe against aggro, and the high density of flashback cards makes me feel pretty good for the long-game against a control deck. I'm pretty excited to see where this deck goes.
Honestly, I've been the least impressed with Kessig Cagebreaker and Spider Spawning. They're both amazing effects in this deck, but I keep winning on the back of 1 or 2 Boneyard Wurm[s]. I'd almost rather keep the curve very low and include a Dissipate or more removal.
I don't have a ton of testing in with this deck. I have done several matches in Tournament Practice and 3 2-man Q's.
I have to agree with the sentiment of the Cagebreakers and the Spider Spawning. If you untap with Cagebreakers, you most likely will win. I just never am able to untap with it. Spider Spawning seems great in theory but in casting it four times throughout my matches, I have been Blasphemous Act ' d four times before untapping with Xteen Spiders.
Question to others playing the deck: Have you been comfortable running 19 land? I added a Kessig Wolf Run for a 20th land and to push Boneyard Wurms. It seems like a solid strategy in theory; I am curious as to your opinions.
In summation.....Star Trek wins a prolonged naval battle against superior, yet less technologically advanced, numbers, with Picard leading the assault, while Kirk takes your soul by laying out Solo and probably his manservant Chewy as well, before impregnating and ditching your Princess.
Question to others playing the deck: Have you been comfortable running 19 land? I added a Kessig Wolf Run for a 20th land and to push Boneyard Wurms. It seems like a solid strategy in theory; I am curious as to your opinions.
The curve is really low, and I don't think I find myself mulling a lot more than normal (need to find 3 asap) but dropping a Scaab or a dream twist and milling 3 lands kinda stinks.
I tried to speed it up using Caravan Vigil rather than Pilgrim, but you need the body for the yard.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
This deck is really solid against aggro now. What a difference gnaw to the bone makes. I've been having trouble against the BGr midrange deck though. Has anyone found the same thing?
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Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
This deck is really solid against aggro now. What a difference gnaw to the bone makes. I've been having trouble against the BGr midrange deck though. Has anyone found the same thing?
What problem are you having against Jund? I would think that matchup would be fairly easy to handle.
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My Youtube Channel Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
The biggest problems were Olivia and the 1/1 tokens from garruk relentless. Liliana can be tough to beat if she gets going too. Oh, and both sever the bloodline and blasphemous act can answer any of our threats.
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
I've been struggling with the GW tokens matchup. Blasphemous Act kills everything and that's cool, but they still have an active Garruk and Township after the wrath and seem to be pretty far ahead. Am I missing some kind of tech? If I win, it's because of Spider Spawning.
I'm still rather unimpressed with the Kessig Cagebreakers. What matchup is he good against? I've played one maybe 10 times, but since the deck is relatively focused on a few threats (Boneyard Wurms, Splinterfrights, Cagebreakers) they can hold their removal and hit one of the big guys. Hence why Spider Spawning is what's winning me games.
What do you think of Stitcher's Apprentice? For example, adding two stitcher MD to the deck of the first post and removing 1 gnaw, 1 spider spawning.
I think stitcher is very good vs aggro: it blocks noble, can give an infinite blocker, fill the graveyard...
Anyway I have some troubles against R/B vampires: Sever the Bloodline MD kills all tokens (and remove from the game creatures), an early bloodcrazed with Furor of the Bitten = lose, noble grow faster than our wurm/Splinterfright and he can't be blocked by our humans, etc
I don't really see where Stitcher would fit-- he does make infinite blockers, but he's quite slow in that regard, and he's not going to save you more life than Gnaw to the Bone gains.
For the BR matchup you're describing, I think more Silent Departure is the answer. Resetting counters and killing Furor of the Bitten is pretty good, and doing it twice is quite nice. I also somewhat want disruption to deal with things like the Sever-- Night Terrors and Dissipate are on my list, although I'm still having a lot of trouble with non-aggro matchups.
This deck is really solid against aggro now. What a difference gnaw to the bone makes. I've been having trouble against the BGr midrange deck though. Has anyone found the same thing?
Yes, I've had the same problem. They kill all of your early drops, and then kill your Splinterfright/Boneyard/Cagebreakers with Liliana/Devil's Play/Blasphemous Act/etc. I've been considering sideboarding Burning Vengeance or Heretic's Punishment as a method of keeping Liliana and Olivia off the board. Anyone have advice on how to handle the very high removal count BR/X decks?
I like current block formats the most.
Its so limited to its power scale against other formats.
Block constructed should be a more competitive format like it was back in Champions or Ravnica.
I could see the deck positioned a little bit higher G1 against Humans simply because of the flyers but Gnaw to the Bone keeps us in there. I'm not sure how I feel about pulling cards out of the yard. "Flashing back" a Ruinator better win you the game considering he pulls 4 cards out of the yard.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
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chrism315 (4-0) - Zapgaze (4-0)
ISD Block Constructed Daily #3014314 on 11/16/2011
4 Hinterland Harbor
2 Island
4 Shimmering Grotto
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Woodland Cemetery
4 Armored Skaab
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Boneyard Wurm
4 Deranged Assistant
4 Kessig Cagebreakers
4 Splinterfright
3 Gnaw to the Bone
4 Mulch
1 Silent Departure
3 Spider Spawning
2 Unburial Rites
4 Blasphemous Act
1 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Memory's Journey
3 Naturalize
2 Sever the Bloodline
1 Silent Departure
1 Spider Spawning
1 Sulfur Falls
The big addition to what we developed which helped in the token match is a red splash for Blasphemous Act.
The old thread is here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=361682 for those who want to reference it.
If you avoid PW (Garruk) this deck is cheaper than the Pauper deck I'm playing with right now. You can buy the whole thing for about 30 tix.
My RUG control deck now has a full set of Dream Twists in the board JUST for this matchup.
Hopefully DKA will have some legitimate graveyard hate, because what we have now doesn't come close to cutting it.
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
Standard:
BWB/R Eldrazi AggroBR
Modern:
UMerfolkU
"My blade slices the air, sakura petals scatter, crimson blossoms appear on the ground..."
Autumn, the season of the Harvest and Falling Leaves...
Song of an unreachable dream...
Ruinator takes cards out of the yard thus breaks the plan. Mindshrieker is too slow and dies to geistflame.
I really didn't put too much stock in Gnaw to the Bone simply because I thought it was (A) too slow and (B) Life Gain is Normally Bad because it normally only gets 1-2 turns off of you.
Decks like Humans really have a hard time rushing when you have a cheap spell they can do nothing about that adds 5-6 uncontested turns to your clock (which is enough time to bring the aformentioned Blasphemous Act which I also discounted for being too slow online).
Holy crap is that thing good against us. If that picks up in sideboards we're gonna need some answers.
I like current block formats the most.
Its so limited to its power scale against other formats.
Block constructed should be a more competitive format like it was back in Champions or Ravnica.
Sig by DD Awie by CC
What's more surprising is that the deck isn't employing Garruk at least in the sideboard. I'm guessing the issue is getting him flipped without gettin him killed.
Kessig Cagebreakers can put 6-10 wolves into play if it gets to swing.
I like current block formats the most.
Its so limited to its power scale against other formats.
Block constructed should be a more competitive format like it was back in Champions or Ravnica.
Sig by DD Awie by CC
It's a little too slow. You want to dump creatures before turn 3 so that you can land a T3 Splinterfright; but I can see it being played in small numbers.
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
Honestly, I've been the least impressed with Kessig Cagebreaker and Spider Spawning. They're both amazing effects in this deck, but I keep winning on the back of 1 or 2 Boneyard Wurm[s]. I'd almost rather keep the curve very low and include a Dissipate or more removal.
But, I must say, am I the only person that just gets mildly annoyed at how any graveyard-based self-mill type deck is referred to as "Dredge", even when the actual dredge mechanic is so far removed from the format?
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Las Vegas, NV, Dec 13-15, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Aug 28-30, 2015
Winner of SCG Worcester Team Sealed Open with Gerard Fabiano and Curtis Sheu, September 28, 2013
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Just like any strategy that runs more creatures than Goyf = Zoo.
But what do you call it that's easily understood. This is the internet Dredge is shorter and easier than "Self Mill" which has a Lab Maniac feel to it.
Yeah, but Zoo isn't a specific mechanic. If there was a deck built around self-discard, I wouldn't call it "Madness" unless it actually made use of that mechanic, but maybe that's just me.
I don't know. I wasn't saying that I have a better name. It's not a big deal, just a little pet peeve, heh.
On the Undead Alchemist topic, is it a card worth fitting some into the board just for the mirror? Also, any general sideboard plans based on the decklist in the OP? What cards to bring in and what to take out against the most prevelant decks in the format?
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Las Vegas, NV, Dec 13-15, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Aug 28-30, 2015
Winner of SCG Worcester Team Sealed Open with Gerard Fabiano and Curtis Sheu, September 28, 2013
twitter
I don't have a ton of testing in with this deck. I have done several matches in Tournament Practice and 3 2-man Q's.
I have to agree with the sentiment of the Cagebreakers and the Spider Spawning. If you untap with Cagebreakers, you most likely will win. I just never am able to untap with it. Spider Spawning seems great in theory but in casting it four times throughout my matches, I have been Blasphemous Act ' d four times before untapping with Xteen Spiders.
Question to others playing the deck: Have you been comfortable running 19 land? I added a Kessig Wolf Run for a 20th land and to push Boneyard Wurms. It seems like a solid strategy in theory; I am curious as to your opinions.
The curve is really low, and I don't think I find myself mulling a lot more than normal (need to find 3 asap) but dropping a Scaab or a dream twist and milling 3 lands kinda stinks.
I tried to speed it up using Caravan Vigil rather than Pilgrim, but you need the body for the yard.
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
What problem are you having against Jund? I would think that matchup would be fairly easy to handle.
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
I'm still rather unimpressed with the Kessig Cagebreakers. What matchup is he good against? I've played one maybe 10 times, but since the deck is relatively focused on a few threats (Boneyard Wurms, Splinterfrights, Cagebreakers) they can hold their removal and hit one of the big guys. Hence why Spider Spawning is what's winning me games.
I don't really see where Stitcher would fit-- he does make infinite blockers, but he's quite slow in that regard, and he's not going to save you more life than Gnaw to the Bone gains.
For the BR matchup you're describing, I think more Silent Departure is the answer. Resetting counters and killing Furor of the Bitten is pretty good, and doing it twice is quite nice. I also somewhat want disruption to deal with things like the Sever-- Night Terrors and Dissipate are on my list, although I'm still having a lot of trouble with non-aggro matchups.
Yes, I've had the same problem. They kill all of your early drops, and then kill your Splinterfright/Boneyard/Cagebreakers with Liliana/Devil's Play/Blasphemous Act/etc. I've been considering sideboarding Burning Vengeance or Heretic's Punishment as a method of keeping Liliana and Olivia off the board. Anyone have advice on how to handle the very high removal count BR/X decks?
I like current block formats the most.
Its so limited to its power scale against other formats.
Block constructed should be a more competitive format like it was back in Champions or Ravnica.
Sig by DD Awie by CC