Do you guys think a deck with Slumbering Tora and Goryo's Vengence would work? Discard a huge legend to the Tora, reanimate it, and attack? Or, if it was something with a static effect you liked (maybe one of the red ones), ninjitsu it back to your hand with Skullsnatcher?
And Horobi, Death's Wail with Blessing of Leeches, for control?
The Unspeakable is a great, great idea. That really makes the combo... High casting cost for the Tora, good attacker, and bounces back the Goryo's. Only way to make it perfect is a static way to sacrifice The Unspeakeable... I guess the Horobi/ Leeches combo would do it, but Im sure theres a good way to sac creatures for a good effect in Kamigawa.
I think this may have some hope, but probably it would be better in T2 or some such because of the use of the stick. Also a possibility would be a UB deck that would allow you to attack with the critter, then Vortex or Eye to Nowhere it back to your hand to get around the RFG problem. Plus, with Unspeekable, both the Revenge are re-usable. This actualy sounds like a fun deckto play with!
Your options for static sacrifice effects are nezumi bone reader and blood rites. I personally like the bone reader, as you can disrupt your opponent, and stay in color, but whichever you use is up to you
Although, if you're playing through the breach also, blood rites is good, esp. with desperate ritual
Otherworldly journey WOULD allow you to keep the creature. That is why i like it with hokori, if you slide it out at the end of your opponents turn, it wont come back unitl the end of your turn, so you will get an untap for each journey you play, and the hokori comes back as a much harder to kill creature.
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Hmm, a few of the cards seem a bit random, as in bile urchin. It cannot target creatures so it doesnt help horobi either. I also dont understand why the blessing of leeches are in there, i would put some white in the deck, and play hokori and otherworldly journey, that way you can keep whatever you want, and lock up the game if needed. You would need some way to take advantage of that though.
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Well, I was thinking of making it mono black, and Bile Urchin is a pretty good black card, as are the rest of the stuff in the second chunk of the deck there. Urchin for the last point of damage or so, Distress for distruption, Cranial for hosing, Top for brainstorming,. Genju is solid, imo, but im sure theres something else to come up with.
I like OJ and Hokori, but then it starts seeming like the deck wouldnt work at all unless you had Goryo's, and theres no good tutor in Kamigawa that I know of. Night Dealings or something, guess that would work. Plus, adding white to it destablizes the mana base of an already unstable deck.
You've got lots of great cards like Time of Need that'll dig for your legends, Hana Kami who is just pure awesome, and some great and hardcastable critters that would be nasty with Goryo's Vengeance. Kodama of the North Tree comes to mind, as well as having Dosan to protect against Splice and Control decks.
B/G seems like it will have a lot of color combinations in block. I really like the possible white aspect of the deck though, maybe we could make a splash with some green mana fixing?
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Some decent starting list but i think you may be missing something, the toma by itself as an engine to discard the legends isn't going to cut it your going to need atleast another. Yes distress and the bone reader could do the job, but we really need to look for better forms to get those big spirits into the yard.
Here's some of the cards that could help out(besides one's already mentioned)
Psychic Spear-targets a player and basically could do a better job than distress;i'm surprised that no one has talked about this yet
Soratami Cloudskater-he is blue, but can help dig through a deck for the cards you need
Hanabi Blast-yea it's pretty bad,but face it there's much going right now and red can help keep your opponent's creature count low
Hanabi blast isnt going to work very well unless you have a way to empty your hand, which means you shouldnt need it anyway, or you have a high num of guys to reanimate and you cant have too many.
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Hanabi blast isnt going to work very well unless you have a way to empty your hand, which means you shouldnt need it anyway, or you have a high num of guys to reanimate and you cant have too many.
But you need a way to put them into the graveyard, hanabi blast makes you discard a card and may get rid of a fatty to reanimate. Red overall doesn't look promising, and suggestions help.
I've tried a B/G version of this deck, using psychic spear as an alternate discard and didn't like it as much as a U/B version I tried.
Here is what Im currently playing around with:
//alternate discard, dig through deck
4x soratami cloudskater
//reanimate targets
4x Kuro, Pitlord
3x the Unspeakable
2x Myojin of Life's Web
2x Myojin of Infinite Rage
4x Goryo's Vengeance
//removal
4x Horobi's Whisper
3x Sickening Shoal
3x Gifts Ungiven
3x Eerie Procession
4x Slumbering Tora
24 land
The Gifts Ungiven for each of the 4 reanimation targets ensures 2 creatures in the graveyard and 2 in hand for discard to tora (or cloudskater). Eerie Procession gets either the missing Vengeance or removal if required. I found this version much stronger, especially if a tora is not in play or destroyed.
Yeah I misread Blessing, I thought it was a general enchantment.
I really like that B/U version, although I would try for a way to abuse Kokusho in it, instead of the Myojin. The Bone-Reader seems the best to me. One black mana for them to discard a card and a five point life drain is nice. Plus, more arcanes make it easier to just splice Vengeance. My version isnt super good with Gifts Ungiven, but The Unspeakable and Kokusho just seem like the best reanimation targets, atm.
My guess is that the real problem with this deck would be how quick it was. I dunno how fast Kamigawa block is shaping up to be, but this deck would maybe start the beatings on turn four, or five?
"Also, instead of Kuro, you may think about Kiega too. The ability to snatch any creature they manage to get out is realy going to be a pain too..."
If you are going to run Keiga and Kokusho, why not just play U/B control? Why screw around with these guys when you can hard-cast them easily anyways?
Kuro is great in this deck. He is huge, makes the tora huge on the discard, and has an ability that can sweep your opponent's board clear. He is also a great ditch to sickening shoal if you have no other choice.
Likewise the Unspeakable is great because he returns the Vengeance, and also makes the tora large.
I think the deck ideas are diverging here. Some people want to use Vengeance to abuse the larger creatures, while others are trying to recur dragons in some roundabout fashion.
It seems that reanimator has returned! I also like the idea of the Unspeakable maindeck as it is a nice 9 for the Tora and brings your arcane back if in play. I was thinking that the best list is U/B and splash red for Throught the Breach. I have a feeling there will be many builds of this deck.
Anyone though about this with through the breach
I mean they both work with the same sort of deck
big creatures, and drawing them? ryusei could be a nice dragon to breach in aswell and crack the earth for sacrifice (possibly)
The builds are good, but where is the creature sac that vengence needs to be good? Since were running blue at all, dont you think maybe you could use some counterspells? Drop Iname since its a one-of any you wont be drawing into it too much. Add either Nezumi Bone-Reader for simple return to the yard effect, or use He Who Hungers for greature control over your opponent. Counterspells would be helpful if after you tora to discard unspeakable, vengence him out, and then be ethereal haze'd. That wouldnt be good, because you RFG a legend and you dont get Vengence back.
Through the breach would be great with Kokusho, but red in a mostly u\b deck just for one card isnt worth it imo. Maybe im wrong! It might be better by adding in those 2-3 copies and some red mana. You can do without the procession, the NoSB and the laughter. The card draw you have (unspeakable combo set) should be enough to get vengence into your hand and maybe unspeakable into play.
Hikari is a very, very good card for this deck. Its a nice way to keep a 4/4 beater. However, i do like to have the ability to hardcast anything in my deck just incase my main way of reanimation is extracted, which is why i dont run them main. My sideboard has (2) Hikari, (2) Cloudcrest Lake and (1) Plains so i can play him in the mirror.
I will certainly try my deck with the dab of red to see if it works any better, but im still skeptic.
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And Horobi, Death's Wail with Blessing of Leeches, for control?
Just a thought.
Although, if you're playing through the breach also, blood rites is good, esp. with desperate ritual
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4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 The Unspeakable
4 Kokusho, The Evening Star
4 Nezumi Bone-Reader
4 Bile Urchin
3 Horobi, Death's Wail
2 Cranial Extraction
2 Genju of the Fens
2 Blessing of Leeches
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
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4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 The Unspeakable
4 Kokusho, The Evening Star
1 Kuro, Pitlord
4 Nezumi Bone-Reader
4 Bile Urchin
3 Cranial Extraction
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Genju of the Fens
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
I like OJ and Hokori, but then it starts seeming like the deck wouldnt work at all unless you had Goryo's, and theres no good tutor in Kamigawa that I know of. Night Dealings or something, guess that would work. Plus, adding white to it destablizes the mana base of an already unstable deck.
You've got lots of great cards like Time of Need that'll dig for your legends, Hana Kami who is just pure awesome, and some great and hardcastable critters that would be nasty with Goryo's Vengeance. Kodama of the North Tree comes to mind, as well as having Dosan to protect against Splice and Control decks.
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Plus, B/G is my favorite color combo. Ill work on a deck list.
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
Here's some of the cards that could help out(besides one's already mentioned)
Psychic Spear-targets a player and basically could do a better job than distress;i'm surprised that no one has talked about this yet
Soratami Cloudskater-he is blue, but can help dig through a deck for the cards you need
Hanabi Blast-yea it's pretty bad,but face it there's much going right now and red can help keep your opponent's creature count low
The bullet of justice caps evil's a$$.
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
But you need a way to put them into the graveyard, hanabi blast makes you discard a card and may get rid of a fatty to reanimate. Red overall doesn't look promising, and suggestions help.
The bullet of justice caps evil's a$$.
Here is what Im currently playing around with:
//alternate discard, dig through deck
4x soratami cloudskater
//reanimate targets
4x Kuro, Pitlord
3x the Unspeakable
2x Myojin of Life's Web
2x Myojin of Infinite Rage
4x Goryo's Vengeance
//removal
4x Horobi's Whisper
3x Sickening Shoal
3x Gifts Ungiven
3x Eerie Procession
4x Slumbering Tora
24 land
The Gifts Ungiven for each of the 4 reanimation targets ensures 2 creatures in the graveyard and 2 in hand for discard to tora (or cloudskater). Eerie Procession gets either the missing Vengeance or removal if required. I found this version much stronger, especially if a tora is not in play or destroyed.
I really like that B/U version, although I would try for a way to abuse Kokusho in it, instead of the Myojin. The Bone-Reader seems the best to me. One black mana for them to discard a card and a five point life drain is nice. Plus, more arcanes make it easier to just splice Vengeance. My version isnt super good with Gifts Ungiven, but The Unspeakable and Kokusho just seem like the best reanimation targets, atm.
Maybe
4 Slumbering Tora
4 Nezumi Bone-Reader
4 Soratami Cloudskater
/discard targets
4 The Unspeakable
4 Kokusho, The Evening Star
1 Kuro, Pitlord
4 Goryo's Vengeance
/tutor
4 Eerie Procession
1 Gifts Ungiven
/removal-splice
4 Horobi's Whisper
3 Sickening Shoal
12 Swamp
9 Island
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
My guess is that the real problem with this deck would be how quick it was. I dunno how fast Kamigawa block is shaping up to be, but this deck would maybe start the beatings on turn four, or five?
If you are going to run Keiga and Kokusho, why not just play U/B control? Why screw around with these guys when you can hard-cast them easily anyways?
Kuro is great in this deck. He is huge, makes the tora huge on the discard, and has an ability that can sweep your opponent's board clear. He is also a great ditch to sickening shoal if you have no other choice.
Likewise the Unspeakable is great because he returns the Vengeance, and also makes the tora large.
I think the deck ideas are diverging here. Some people want to use Vengeance to abuse the larger creatures, while others are trying to recur dragons in some roundabout fashion.
2 [BOK] Tendo Ice Bridge
7 [CHK] Swamp (3)
8 [CHK] Island (3)
1 [CHK] Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 [CHK] Minamo, School at Water's Edge
3 [CHK] Waterveil Cavern
// Creatures
3 [CHK] Kuro, Pitlord
3 [CHK] The Unspeakable
1 [CHK] Iname, Death Aspect
2 [CHK] Kokusho, the Evening Star
2 [CHK] Hikari, Twilight Guardian
// Spells
4 [BOK] Goryo's Vengeance
2 [CHK] Eerie Procession
2 [CHK] Gifts Ungiven
4 [BOK] Slumbering Tora
2 [CHK] Hideous Laughter
2 [CHK] Night of Souls' Betrayal
3 [CHK] Peer Through Depths
4 [CHK] Reach Through Mists
4 [CHK] Sift Through Sands
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [CHK] Hisoka's Defiance
SB: 4 [BOK] Psychic Spear
SB: 2 [BOK] Toshiro Umezawa
SB: 3 [CHK] Cranial Extraction
SB: 2 [CHK] Night of Souls' Betrayal
Critcism welcome etc.
Anyone though about this with through the breach
I mean they both work with the same sort of deck
big creatures, and drawing them? ryusei could be a nice dragon to breach in aswell and crack the earth for sacrifice (possibly)
Shadowmoor's Infinite combos
Through the breach would be great with Kokusho, but red in a mostly u\b deck just for one card isnt worth it imo. Maybe im wrong! It might be better by adding in those 2-3 copies and some red mana. You can do without the procession, the NoSB and the laughter. The card draw you have (unspeakable combo set) should be enough to get vengence into your hand and maybe unspeakable into play.
Hikari is a very, very good card for this deck. Its a nice way to keep a 4/4 beater. However, i do like to have the ability to hardcast anything in my deck just incase my main way of reanimation is extracted, which is why i dont run them main. My sideboard has (2) Hikari, (2) Cloudcrest Lake and (1) Plains so i can play him in the mirror.
I will certainly try my deck with the dab of red to see if it works any better, but im still skeptic.