Pretty freakin' fast. With Rangers, Visionary, Gift and Panoramas, you thin/filter the deck considerably and the manabase is pretty solid. The Panoramas really only hurt Sigil and Thoctar but only if you had a bad 3 land or 2 land opening hand, in which case you had other problems. The perfect curve of T1 Nacatl, T2 Visionary, T3 Thoctar, T4 Ranger is monstrous. Cerodon rounds out your late game, along with Soul's Fire (as being able to play Cerodon gurantees pretty much that you can Soul's Fire next turn). You have 12 targets that offer the ability to send 5 damage to the dome, and 6 that offer 3 damage, which is about break even in this format, not including the possibility of Sigil + Soul's. Ranger and Visionary die to Jund/Infest but if they are in play, they have already done their job. Knight is susceptible as well if you have no untapped mana.
Thoughts, comments, suggestions? One or two more decks to go.:D
have you experimented with Knight of the White Orchid over the skyward eye knight at all? it could help thin the deck, plus 2/2 first strike is pretty good on its own.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
Wow, not only is it a speedy aggro in block, but it's budget as well, not a single rare except 2 Rangers. Nice work.
As to Gemini's comment, White Orchid is a bit situational in it's thinning as it counts all lands, not just plains. You might be able to play it MP2 before you play a land, but it will be situational, and not very effective late game. With the heavy late-game hitters in this block I would agree that Skyward is the proper choice here. If anything, I might swap 2 skywards out for 2 Qasali Ambusher. A 2/3 reach surprise would be nice here, as there is little to no defense against flyers. Against aggro, you can almost guarantee your opponent will try some attacking to thin down your numbers, so playing him for free is very likely.
Might be worth some tweaking to get a few Naya Charms in this deck. If you can load the board then tap all your opponent's creatures and swing for the win it could be even faster. I'd say drop 1 sigil, 1 ring and 1 gift and run 3 charms.
Ergo:
-1 Sigil Blessing
-1 Oblivion Ring
-1 Gift of the Gargantuan
+3 Naya Charm
Maybe:
-2 Knight of the Skyward Eye
+2 Qasali Ambusher
That build is a bit far from speed aggro. 6 PW plus Angel, and Sigil are a bit too late game for speed. Valeron is nice accel, but once your mana stabilizes he's rather useless after that. Aggro wouldn't really benefit off of angel, as you would want more than one attacker each turn generally. Here's a build I will probably play around with this weekend.
I changed the land count a bit, mainly to try and add a little more speed since, aside from nacatl pump, you won't need a mountain at all until at very least turn 3. I toyed around with the idea of trading the Ceradon for something, but I can't think of anything that would work better. I'll probably try -4 ceradon, +2 Elspeth, +2 Realm Razer to see if that will have some success.
Yeah, props as well on the Hydra/Ranger package. One of the reasons we chose Knight was the ability late game to dump mana into it. I will suggest Hydra to the person who runs the deck as an idea SB at least, if not MD.
There is not a lot of flying in our meta so I don't see Quasali as necessary in our group. However, 2 decks have added 4x Strix so that may change. Definitely SB material for sure.
I agree Stryyder with finding room for the Charm. I'm more apt to go -2 Gift, -1 Ring or -2 Ring, -1 Gift, as the Blessing has really worked out for this deck a lot of times and I always like seeing it. Using the Charm to tap down is virtually identical to O-ring shenanigans except you have it availabel EoT.
Khar, how has Mycoloth been working out for you? With a Sigil Blessing, seems like there is a lot of potential.
Thanks again for all of the feedback. I should be posting the rest of our playgroup's decks in this forum, think about 5-6 total.
Another PW to consider with this deck is Sarkhan. Granted he also adds some price to the deck but it's another way to give your board +1/+1, plus haste for tokens coming in from mycoloth if one were to mix that into the deck. I'd rather have elspeth or Ajani though, at present. Just an idea.
Budget isn't a concern for me; I was just surprised that it was so good as a budget deck.
And I'm sure Khar you meant Jund Charm.
There isn't that much Goblin Assault in our lists (just 2 decks at present) but that is an awesome point. As much as I love Assault, it does have some serious drawbacks. I think it's still more mirror/SB material for our meta.
Agreed with both of you on the PW, so far we have only gotten Sarkhan to work in our Jund Midrange I posted.
Again, thanks for all the feedback, it's so easy to forget other ideas when you're stuck in your own little playgroup.
For this deck, what about -2 Gob assault, +2 Elspeth? Still a token gen if you need it, but also a Serra maker, in case you are getting shut down on large numbers of creatures.
True enough, but a well placed naturalize can save you from Scourglass (which is stalled until Upkeep) or Ethersworn Cannonist which could stall this deck as well. If you are playing against Jund aggro/token it can take out Goblin Assault, or a Lightning Talons which Grixis will drop on Kederekt just for giggles.
Yeah, I was curious about the 1x Squire as well but you said you had good success so I just glazed over it. I may test the Mycoloth unless you now aren't sold on it, lol.
I stand by the Naturalize as well. It's 2cmc is gonna outrace their recursion resources and as Stryyder said, it's extra utility is worth it for other matchups.
i have similar maindeck, but im having trouble against jund token decks. they are as fast as us, and have caldera main to kill most of our creatures. i need maindeck and sideboard help against jund token decks.
Make sure you have Naya Charm to tap them out and swing for the kill when you get the chance. Sigil Blessing can help too. If they swing heavy to do some trades, drop a quick Blessing to give you the upper hand in that. As for hellion, that kills their side as well and leaves them with a non-hasty beater, so hold an o-ring or other removal for it and you are basically at square 1. By that point, they have to rebuild for another devour, but you just need to build and swing. I'm blanking right now as to whether you can do something in response to Devour, but I don't think so since it is "as ~ comes into play". If I'm wrong though, you can always drop a charm on the board for blanket 2 damage before he devours with his hellion and he's stuck with a 1/1 and empty boards.
That's really all I can come up with off the top of my head.
i have found that the druid is underwhelming for this deck, it only helps for a turn 3 woolly, but other than that it has not helped that much.. been thinking of removing them for +1 land, adn 3 knight of the skyward eye.. what other suggestions you may have? sideboard advise needed also. (personally dont like de caldera hellions or the magma sprays)
4 druid of the animas
4 feral hydra
4 ranger of eos
4 steward of valeron
4 wild nacatl
4 woolly thoctar
4 ajani vengeant
4 naya charm
4 oblivion ring
5 forest
5 mountains
6 plains
4 jungle shrine
4 naya panorama
Thats not a good reason to run the druid. Druid belongs in ramp, not aggro, as the card isnt aggressive. You're better off running Visionary for the card, Rip-Clan Crasher for the hasty beats, or something from Bant with exalted. Im certain that you have better options than the Druid, you shouldnt need mana help in aggro. Same goes for the Valeron, but hes a little more understandable considering the Vigilance.
Hellspark Elemental seems underwhelming. I think Id rather play the Crasher every game over the Elemental, as Id rather have as many potential red and/or white permanents as possible by turn 4 for the Behemoth. That being said, the 2cc enchantment from 'flux (mark of asylum) prevents all of your dudes from noncombat damage. Itd leave you with 21 creatures, and theyd be better off. Bonus:White permanent 0:)
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Only spiderboy4 at High~Light could do it like this! Thanks spidey!
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4x Wooly Thoctar
4x Elvish Visionary
4x Bull Cerodon
4x Knight of the Skyward Eye
4x Wild Nacatl
2x Ranger of Eos
4x Oblivion Ring
4x Gift of the Gargantuan
4x Sigil Blessing
3x Soul's Fire
Land
4x Jungle Shrine
4x Naya Panorama
5x Plains
5x Mountain
5x Forest
Pretty freakin' fast. With Rangers, Visionary, Gift and Panoramas, you thin/filter the deck considerably and the manabase is pretty solid. The Panoramas really only hurt Sigil and Thoctar but only if you had a bad 3 land or 2 land opening hand, in which case you had other problems. The perfect curve of T1 Nacatl, T2 Visionary, T3 Thoctar, T4 Ranger is monstrous. Cerodon rounds out your late game, along with Soul's Fire (as being able to play Cerodon gurantees pretty much that you can Soul's Fire next turn). You have 12 targets that offer the ability to send 5 damage to the dome, and 6 that offer 3 damage, which is about break even in this format, not including the possibility of Sigil + Soul's. Ranger and Visionary die to Jund/Infest but if they are in play, they have already done their job. Knight is susceptible as well if you have no untapped mana.
Thoughts, comments, suggestions? One or two more decks to go.:D
As to Gemini's comment, White Orchid is a bit situational in it's thinning as it counts all lands, not just plains. You might be able to play it MP2 before you play a land, but it will be situational, and not very effective late game. With the heavy late-game hitters in this block I would agree that Skyward is the proper choice here. If anything, I might swap 2 skywards out for 2 Qasali Ambusher. A 2/3 reach surprise would be nice here, as there is little to no defense against flyers. Against aggro, you can almost guarantee your opponent will try some attacking to thin down your numbers, so playing him for free is very likely.
Might be worth some tweaking to get a few Naya Charms in this deck. If you can load the board then tap all your opponent's creatures and swing for the win it could be even faster. I'd say drop 1 sigil, 1 ring and 1 gift and run 3 charms.
Ergo:
-1 Sigil Blessing
-1 Oblivion Ring
-1 Gift of the Gargantuan
+3 Naya Charm
Maybe:
-2 Knight of the Skyward Eye
+2 Qasali Ambusher
4x Wooly Thoctar
4x Elvish Visionary
4x Bull Ceradon
2x Qasali Ambusher
2x Knight of the Skyward Eye
4x Wild Nacatl
2x Ranger of Eos
3x Oblivion Ring
3x Gift of the Gargantuan
3x Sigil Blessing
3x Soul's Fire
3x Naya Charm
4x Jungle Shrine
3x Naya Panorama
6x Plains
4x Mountain
6x Forest
I changed the land count a bit, mainly to try and add a little more speed since, aside from nacatl pump, you won't need a mountain at all until at very least turn 3. I toyed around with the idea of trading the Ceradon for something, but I can't think of anything that would work better. I'll probably try -4 ceradon, +2 Elspeth, +2 Realm Razer to see if that will have some success.
There is not a lot of flying in our meta so I don't see Quasali as necessary in our group. However, 2 decks have added 4x Strix so that may change. Definitely SB material for sure.
I agree Stryyder with finding room for the Charm. I'm more apt to go -2 Gift, -1 Ring or -2 Ring, -1 Gift, as the Blessing has really worked out for this deck a lot of times and I always like seeing it. Using the Charm to tap down is virtually identical to O-ring shenanigans except you have it availabel EoT.
Khar, how has Mycoloth been working out for you? With a Sigil Blessing, seems like there is a lot of potential.
Thanks again for all of the feedback. I should be posting the rest of our playgroup's decks in this forum, think about 5-6 total.
And I'm sure Khar you meant Jund Charm.
There isn't that much Goblin Assault in our lists (just 2 decks at present) but that is an awesome point. As much as I love Assault, it does have some serious drawbacks. I think it's still more mirror/SB material for our meta.
Agreed with both of you on the PW, so far we have only gotten Sarkhan to work in our Jund Midrange I posted.
Again, thanks for all the feedback, it's so easy to forget other ideas when you're stuck in your own little playgroup.
Not understanding what you mean.
I stand by the Naturalize as well. It's 2cmc is gonna outrace their recursion resources and as Stryyder said, it's extra utility is worth it for other matchups.
That's really all I can come up with off the top of my head.
4 druid of the animas
4 feral hydra
4 ranger of eos
4 steward of valeron
4 wild nacatl
4 woolly thoctar
4 ajani vengeant
4 naya charm
4 oblivion ring
5 forest
5 mountains
6 plains
4 jungle shrine
4 naya panorama
sideboard
3 caldera hellion
3 elspetth, knight errant
4 naturalize
2 battlegrace angel
3 magma spray
Only spiderboy4 at High~Light could do it like this! Thanks spidey!
4 Wild Nacatl
1 Feral Hydra
4 Rip-Clan Crasher
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Woolly Thoctar
4 Cliffrunner Behemoth
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Path to Exile
3 Naya Charm
2 Sigil Blessing
3 Ajani Vengeant
4 Ancient Ziggurrat
6 Plains
6 Mountains
7 Forest
Only spiderboy4 at High~Light could do it like this! Thanks spidey!