I hate playing this deck. Serum Visions, Seething Song, Manamorphose ... I dread seeing any of those cards get dropped. Still, everyone has a right to play their own deck. Last night on MTGO I hit my limit, though. The dude starts combo-ing off and it takes FOREVER. As usual, when I see these cards getting cast I just hit F6 and go to YouTube, or something. After awhile, I check back but this guy is still going strong. I read a newspaper article and check back again. Nope, he's still playing with himself. What's the etiquette, here? How long do I have to watch someone yank their own crank?
Well, I check back for the last time and he's still in the middle of his combo. 9 mana in his pool and 5 cards in his hand. My play clock says 28 and his says 17. It's been over 11 freaking minutes. That's it for me. I don't mind getting beat in Magic but I've got a big problem getting *BORED* in Magic. I type in "GG, I've got to concede" and do just that.
So, my question is this - how long is too long? Was that a jerk move on my part, or is there a point where it's okay to just tap out? I'm sure this guy was eventually going to hit me with the most epic grapeshot ever played, but cripes ... I can't wait that long.
I wonder if he was gaming you. Maybe he didn't have a way to kill you, no actual storm card, so he was just like... "if I don't F6 and slowroll this storm count of 30, he'll scoop before I ever have to show him the grapeshot..."
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I'll be sad if people don't start calling The Chain Veil "Fleetwood Mac."
If it was for packs.. play it. If not, gg and scoop. That's my theory.
Sometimes if they are testing an "unknown" deck, and I mull to 4 or something, I'll ask, mind if I scoop? If they are nice I'll offer to play them again. Storm of course isn't unknown.
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You could always go with the Mike Long version of Game 5 - Pro Tour Paris - 1997. I'm going to take ten minutes to combo out Pros Bloom and hit you with a 42 point Drain Life. But only after I make sure that I draw every single card in my library and make it as big a win as humanly possible.
I agree with the OP though. Unless your opponent has given you some reason to think that the maximum combo is necessary you should just go ahead and win. Kind of like how you don't keep running the score up in a football game after about a thirty five point lead. You can always go for the showboat move in the Olympics in snowboarding and get a silver medal though when you screw it up.
If they aren't showing any signs of actually attempting to kill you (especially when the Storm count starts exceeding what is sufficient by about twice what's needed) than I think conceding is perfectly fine.
I probably should have mentioned that this was casual magic with no packs on the line. Does anyone else run into this frustration with non-interactive decks? I feel obligated to let my opponent play their game, but geez. At some point (well before the 10min mark, quite frankly) I just don't care anymore.
Like a playing against a mill deck that is going off, just open another tab and let them play with themselves. If that's how they want to have fun I'm sure I could fine something better to do with my time while they're busy...
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I was playing a 2 on 2 match and had an opponent literaly go on for about 20 minutes doing some infinite myr, mana combo. He thought he was cool. I just let him do it instead of scooping and started playing another game. I didnt scoop and I made him wait about 10 minutes after he wanted to attack with like 100 1/1 myr tokens which I think is overkill and wasnt needed. Im actually surprised he didnt scoop himself since I made him wait just as he made everyone else wait. I came back and said sorry I was in another game and didnt realize he was ready and I said GG and conceeded. He got mad that I made him wait.
Moral of the story is: You want to show off then be prepared for trolling.
I was playing a 2 on 2 match and had an opponent literaly go on for about 20 minutes doing some infinite myr, mana combo. He thought he was cool. I just let him do it instead of scooping and started playing another game. I didnt scoop and I made him wait about 10 minutes after he wanted to attack with like 100 1/1 myr tokens which I think is overkill and wasnt needed. Im actually surprised he didnt scoop himself since I made him wait just as he made everyone else wait. I came back and said sorry I was in another game and didnt realize he was ready and I said GG and conceeded. He got mad that I made him wait.
Moral of the story is: You want to show off then be prepared for trolling.
this is against the rules if your match is in a tournament and can get you suspended.
i play storm in modern, and i once had to combo off for about 8 or 9 minutes because my opponent was playing martyr/proc and i had to do 42ish damage to kill him. typically, i combo off exactly when it's possible, which takes about 4 or 5 minutes. if it's casual, and the people are still learning their combo, expect it to take a little longer. if the match is free and there's nothing on the line, why would you stay if you think your opponent's win condition is 'boring' or 'lame' when you could just leave and start another free match with nothing on the line? complaining about free magic when you could just concede at any time seems like the textbook definition of durdling.
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Quote from ClockworkSwordfish »
Had semenulative upkeep before it was fashionable. Look what you forced me to do, Wizards! IT DIDN'T HAVE TO GO DOWN LIKE THIS!
Quote from LandBoySteve »
Like I said, I can only go by my own experience, which is now 18 years. Kind of disheartening when you think you know something and you find out that you're a notch below a low grade moron.
this is against the rules if your match is in a tournament and can get you suspended.
i play storm in modern, and i once had to combo off for about 8 or 9 minutes because my opponent was playing martyr/proc and i had to do 42ish damage to kill him. typically, i combo off exactly when it's possible, which takes about 4 or 5 minutes. if it's casual, and the people are still learning their combo, expect it to take a little longer. if the match is free and there's nothing on the line, why would you stay if you think your opponent's win condition is 'boring' or 'lame' when you could just leave and start another free match with nothing on the line? complaining about free magic when you could just concede at any time seems like the textbook definition of durdling.
Thing is, online magic is different. I don't think it counts as stalling if you F6 and let your opponent play it out, there's no rules that say you have to concede.
It's their choice to play a deck that runs the risk of being soft on the play clock. Typically grapeshot or tendrils won't take longer than 7 minutes at the most for lethal.
Typically you only need to activate Chameleon Colossus for lethal, too, but that doesn't stop me from attacking in for 32k damage...
Correct. You are perfectly within your rights if you do not concede in the face of a probable win. It is possible that your opponent could make a mistake and fizzle their combo.
Requiring someone to play out their entire combo (even if it runs their clock down significantly) is 100% acceptable and you would never be disciplined for that.
Im actually surprised he didnt scoop himself since I made him wait just as he made everyone else wait. I came back and said sorry I was in another game and didnt realize he was ready and I said GG and conceeded. He got mad that I made him wait.
Quote from summon_legend »
this is against the rules if your match is in a tournament and can get you suspended.
Correct. You are perfectly within your rights if you do not concede in the face of a probable win. It is possible that your opponent could make a mistake and fizzle their combo.
Requiring someone to play out their entire combo (even if it runs their clock down significantly) is 100% acceptable and you would never be disciplined for that.
temp, you misunderstood me and you misunderstood dream. it would have been easier for me if you'd read it the first time, but now it's laid out for you.
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Quote from ClockworkSwordfish »
Had semenulative upkeep before it was fashionable. Look what you forced me to do, Wizards! IT DIDN'T HAVE TO GO DOWN LIKE THIS!
Quote from LandBoySteve »
Like I said, I can only go by my own experience, which is now 18 years. Kind of disheartening when you think you know something and you find out that you're a notch below a low grade moron.
With storm you often have to start going off before you know with 100% certainty that you can kill them, I can't count the number of times my opp has just fizzled and conceded mid combo. The longer it takes the better the chance of them fizzling as well, since usually if they can kill you they will. If you're bored just F6 and start another match in another tab
temp, you misunderstood me and you misunderstood dream. it would have been easier for me if you'd read it the first time, but now it's laid out for you.
In timed events, draining your own clock will automatically result in a match loss for you, so you're allowed to do whatever you want with your half of the clock. Activating a free ability that doesn't affect the board state is reportable as stalling, but if what you're doing only drains your clock, such as going to get a drink out of the fridge, driving to subway to get a sandwich, or stopping to do dirty unspeakable things in the middle of a game, it's your right.
In timed events, draining your own clock will automatically result in a match loss for you, so you're allowed to do whatever you want with your half of the clock. Activating a free ability that doesn't affect the board state is reportable as stalling, but if what you're doing only drains your clock, such as going to get a drink out of the fridge, driving to subway to get a sandwich, or stopping to do dirty unspeakable things in the middle of a game, it's your right.
Quote from MTGO Code of Conduct »
9. Do not attempt to artificially alter the outcome of a league, sanctioned event, or organized game. For example:
Bribe or offer compensation in order to change the game outcome
Stall, spam, harass, or behave in any unsportsmanlike manner that affects the game
I believe draining your clock by going to get a drink out of the fridge, driving to subway to get a sandwich, or stopping to do dirty unspeakable things in the middle of a game, counts as stalling.
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Quote from ClockworkSwordfish »
Had semenulative upkeep before it was fashionable. Look what you forced me to do, Wizards! IT DIDN'T HAVE TO GO DOWN LIKE THIS!
Quote from LandBoySteve »
Like I said, I can only go by my own experience, which is now 18 years. Kind of disheartening when you think you know something and you find out that you're a notch below a low grade moron.
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Well, I check back for the last time and he's still in the middle of his combo. 9 mana in his pool and 5 cards in his hand. My play clock says 28 and his says 17. It's been over 11 freaking minutes. That's it for me. I don't mind getting beat in Magic but I've got a big problem getting *BORED* in Magic. I type in "GG, I've got to concede" and do just that.
So, my question is this - how long is too long? Was that a jerk move on my part, or is there a point where it's okay to just tap out? I'm sure this guy was eventually going to hit me with the most epic grapeshot ever played, but cripes ... I can't wait that long.
Sometimes if they are testing an "unknown" deck, and I mull to 4 or something, I'll ask, mind if I scoop? If they are nice I'll offer to play them again. Storm of course isn't unknown.
I agree with the OP though. Unless your opponent has given you some reason to think that the maximum combo is necessary you should just go ahead and win. Kind of like how you don't keep running the score up in a football game after about a thirty five point lead. You can always go for the showboat move in the Olympics in snowboarding and get a silver medal though when you screw it up.
If they aren't showing any signs of actually attempting to kill you (especially when the Storm count starts exceeding what is sufficient by about twice what's needed) than I think conceding is perfectly fine.
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this is against the rules if your match is in a tournament and can get you suspended.
i play storm in modern, and i once had to combo off for about 8 or 9 minutes because my opponent was playing martyr/proc and i had to do 42ish damage to kill him. typically, i combo off exactly when it's possible, which takes about 4 or 5 minutes. if it's casual, and the people are still learning their combo, expect it to take a little longer. if the match is free and there's nothing on the line, why would you stay if you think your opponent's win condition is 'boring' or 'lame' when you could just leave and start another free match with nothing on the line? complaining about free magic when you could just concede at any time seems like the textbook definition of durdling.
Thing is, online magic is different. I don't think it counts as stalling if you F6 and let your opponent play it out, there's no rules that say you have to concede.
It's their choice to play a deck that runs the risk of being soft on the play clock. Typically grapeshot or tendrils won't take longer than 7 minutes at the most for lethal.
Typically you only need to activate Chameleon Colossus for lethal, too, but that doesn't stop me from attacking in for 32k damage...
Requiring someone to play out their entire combo (even if it runs their clock down significantly) is 100% acceptable and you would never be disciplined for that.
temp, you misunderstood me and you misunderstood dream. it would have been easier for me if you'd read it the first time, but now it's laid out for you.
In timed events, draining your own clock will automatically result in a match loss for you, so you're allowed to do whatever you want with your half of the clock. Activating a free ability that doesn't affect the board state is reportable as stalling, but if what you're doing only drains your clock, such as going to get a drink out of the fridge, driving to subway to get a sandwich, or stopping to do dirty unspeakable things in the middle of a game, it's your right.
I believe draining your clock by going to get a drink out of the fridge, driving to subway to get a sandwich, or stopping to do dirty unspeakable things in the middle of a game, counts as stalling.