Opinion's on bitter-blossom in the side? I've been wanting to tinker with it.
Could be good, but I think its too slow and clunky, I really don't want to spend 2 mana on a card that doesn't do something right away in this current meta I think. But It did see play already, although not much. If you want to try it, go for it and report back how it went!
So recently a second Tron deck has appeared in my store. One changes between G/w and G/r and the other is a G/b deck somewhere between the version that runs Endbringer etc and regular Tron.
I realise that the fact that those two decks exist means I should probably just sleeve up another deck but I've only been playing Jund a few months and I love the play style so even if I've got a few bad matchups I still want to play it.
So with this in mind I've been toying with the idea of running a single Watery Grave and a couple of Ceremonious Rejection in the sideboard.
My sideboard curerntly looks like this and I'd probably drop Ishkanah, Grafwidow and either Ancient Grudge or Collective Brutality. There is a burn deck at the shop but recently the pilot has shown up with CatCombo. The Watery Grave would go in the flex slot.
With the recent DS's decks growing in popularity, is it time to swith Lightning Bolt for Fatal Push?
Bolt is bolt, and the reach it provides it's just great and game winning sometimes..also it can help killing PWs. But it just don't kill opposing goyfs and the Death's Shadow himself. And there's a bunch of other creatures that bolt doesn't kill and pus does with revolt trigger on, I know that this is liability, but i believe that it must be considered.
Or a split between Bolt, Push and Terminate? Something around 3 Bolt, 2 Push and 3 Terminate...what do you guys think of it?
I tested 2 Fatal Push in my main deck (cut 1 Lightning Bolt and 1 Terminate for them) for a GP Trial this past weekend. I'd have to say it would have been relevant for the field I was in but not the for the matches I had. Honestly, I think it would probably be fine to drop Lightning Bolt for Fatal Push if the the metagame is pushing more towards fat creatures with small CMCs. This idea is something I've been working towards the last couple months. Watching Todd Stevens play his variation of Rock with 4 Fatal Push main and seeing how good it was in several matches was the last straw for me.
That is a sweet decklist. Doing something different while keeping the strongest pieces of Jund in place.
If Leyline is giving you fits you could look at siding another card to destroy enchantments. Depends on the decks bringing it in. Against decks you want to kill ASAP taking a page from burn and playing a copy or two of Destructive Revelry destroys something while pushing you towards a win. Where as if it's a grindy deck I'm with Flying Delver in saying Pulse is good, and playing another could be worth it. Not great with your Blood Moon plan though.
I'm also unsure if 1 Forest is enough. It probably is, and I'm aware you don't play any spells that need 2 green. But having access to a second might be worth just considering.
Also, did you miss Decay in the main? Having no removal for Ensnaring Bridge, Chalice, ect. in the main seems like it might be rough, as well as missing the maindeck enchantment hate against Boggles. It might have been fine for the metagame you saw, but do you thing it's a card you'll wish you had? I suppose it's also really hard for you to cast through moon.
I think the 24th land and the 2nd forest is very good suggestion, because the only card that cost BB in the main is LotV and sometimes I need the green for tarmo and huntmaster under BM. This deck has more 3cc and 4cc cards than regular jund too.
I haven't miss decay much,I want to minimize the cards that need Green to cast in the main so I drop decay. But I think put an extra pulse in the main for various artifact and enchant removal is fine. I will test it and let you guys know the results.
I actually play 3 Surgical Extraction in my SB with 3 Fulminator Mage.
Surgical Extraction is great against DS which just play DS and Tarmogoyf as threats, kill them is not enough because it's possible to bring them back thanks LtLH and Kolaghan's co.
An other good card against DS is scavenging ooze.
Moreover, taking the actual meta given by Modern Nexus, the couple Fulminator Mage + Surgical Extraction is extremely powerful against new Tiers 1 decks (Valakut, Eldrazi Tron, Gx Tron).
For the point about Lightning Bolt vs Fatal Push, if you would replace it, you should probably play The Rock with a better mana-base and Phyrexian Obliterator.
I'm glad to be back on this forum, Flyingdelver, a huge respect for your work.
In May I'll go to GP Copenhague with traditional Jund so April will be a intense month of trainings against this new format.
I actually play 3 Surgical Extraction in my SB with 3 Fulminator Mage.
Surgical Extraction is great against DS which just play DS and Tarmogoyf as threats, kill them is not enough because it's possible to bring them back thanks LtLH and Kolaghan's co.
An other good card against DS is scavenging ooze.
Moreover, taking the actual meta given by Modern Nexus, the couple Fulminator Mage + Surgical Extraction is extremely powerful against new Tiers 1 decks (Valakut, Eldrazi Tron, Gx Tron).
For the point about Lightning Bolt vs Fatal Push, if you would replace it, you should probably play The Rock with a better mana-base and Phyrexian Obliterator.
I'm glad to be back on this forum, Flyingdelver, a huge respect for your work.
In May I'll go to GP Copenhague with traditional Jund so April will be a intense month of trainings against this new format.
Gus
Hey Gus, I've also been playing 3 Surgicals in the SB. Would you mind sharing your current SB list?
What do you think about the list posted at the very end? With a little adjustments this list looks intriguing, and I am always a fan of Blood Moon shenanigans, given that it should be fantastic against Eldrazi and DSJ in general.
What do you think about the list posted at the very end? With a little adjustments this list looks intriguing, and I am always a fan of Blood Moon shenanigans, given that it should be fantastic against Eldrazi and DSJ in general.
Main board seems pretty straightforward, and probably I would switch a Fatal Push for the third terminate.
Sideboard seems a little bit off.
I do like Fulminator plus Blood Moon, but i believe that Surgical must be a sb staple for us, and also 3 anger seems excessive and I would swap two of them for a Damnation plus Engineered Explosives or two Damnations.
I actually play 3 Surgical Extraction in my SB with 3 Fulminator Mage.
Surgical Extraction is great against DS which just play DS and Tarmogoyf as threats, kill them is not enough because it's possible to bring them back thanks LtLH and Kolaghan's co.
An other good card against DS is scavenging ooze.
Moreover, taking the actual meta given by Modern Nexus, the couple Fulminator Mage + Surgical Extraction is extremely powerful against new Tiers 1 decks (Valakut, Eldrazi Tron, Gx Tron).
For the point about Lightning Bolt vs Fatal Push, if you would replace it, you should probably play The Rock with a better mana-base and Phyrexian Obliterator.
I'm glad to be back on this forum, Flyingdelver, a huge respect for your work.
In May I'll go to GP Copenhague with traditional Jund so April will be a intense month of trainings against this new format.
Gus
Hey Gus, I've also been playing 3 Surgicals in the SB. Would you mind sharing your current SB list?
Here is my SB (I already play 1 Finks and 3rd Thoughtseize MD) :
I actually play 3 Surgical Extraction in my SB with 3 Fulminator Mage.
Surgical Extraction is great against DS which just play DS and Tarmogoyf as threats, kill them is not enough because it's possible to bring them back thanks LtLH and Kolaghan's co.
An other good card against DS is scavenging ooze.
Moreover, taking the actual meta given by Modern Nexus, the couple Fulminator Mage + Surgical Extraction is extremely powerful against new Tiers 1 decks (Valakut, Eldrazi Tron, Gx Tron).
For the point about Lightning Bolt vs Fatal Push, if you would replace it, you should probably play The Rock with a better mana-base and Phyrexian Obliterator.
I'm glad to be back on this forum, Flyingdelver, a huge respect for your work.
In May I'll go to GP Copenhague with traditional Jund so April will be a intense month of trainings against this new format.
I guess because of Fatal Push nowadays, it doesn't. Also on a general note, single target hard removal is very highly played right now. I think this makes Obliterator not good enough to play.
I couldn't buy the Jadine article too much because of a bunch of things she mentioned; finally dropping flayers (when they haven't really been real cards for Jund in months), picking Kalitas over huntmaster despite acknowledging the fact that Kalitas eats a fatal push pretty terribly, and having both blood moon and fulminators in the SB for tron when neither of them really solve the issue of being too slow for the god hand on the draw.
@FlyingDelver, So I kept thinking about that deck Jadine posted. Initially I thought it was hot garbage, but the more I thought about it, the more it answers a lot of issues, simply and effectively. I still think Kalitas as a 2-of in the main deck isn't quite right, but the 4-CMC slot is always in flux and dependent on metagame anyway. The only thing that gets me about the deck overall is this: how does it deal with Bant Eldrazi and EldraziTron? Those are matches I personally have a good record against but I also recognize this is not the norm and is probably heavily influenced by other factors. The setup she presents gets wrecked so hard by those decks because those decks laugh at you when you try to go after their mana. Eldrazi Tron has Mind Stone and a Waste or two while Bant Eldrazi has mana ramp in Eldrazi Temple and Noble Hierarch. After sideboard, Bant Eldrazi also has Stubborn Denial. It just seems like a stretch to go down that road. As far as Blood Moon against Death's Shadow, that feels like a gamble. They play almost as much discard as we do so I don't know about my chances of getting that down on turn 3.
Overall, I've come around on her main deck choices. The sideboard leaves quite a bit to be desired, but I assume this is also dependent on the metagame she had in mind.
Yeah, that list got me thinking for a while too.
The main board it's just kill and discard spell and value creatures. Pretty much the typical Jund deck.
The SB it's a little bit sketchy, i don't like all that land hate and i'm torn between Fulminator Mage and Blood Moon, the later seems weak against any Eldrazi and Tron variation, because they can easily play around that card..it's more a catch all against any other greedy deck, such as DS or even some sort of Jeskai/Grixis deck.
Fuminator + Surgical seems a great combo against the big mana decks, but it must be assembled on turn 3 at the maximum I think.
Those big mana decks it's and always will be a HUGE problem for midrange Jund.
Regardless her other options..I miss Engineered Explosives and Damnation, which are huge sweepers and deals with almost every threat, and that's it's my approach against Eldrazi decks..and I'm having a decent win rate against Bant and Eldrazi Tron.
Kalitas can be game winning or a time walk, because tapping out for him and he gets killed right away..it's a huge tempo loss, that's why I think Huntmaster is better, because he generates 2 life plus another body and pressure the opposing side to do anything to prevent him to flip...that's a sensation I don't fell with Kalitas, even if he doesn't get kill right away, I never fell like i'll win no matter what if a untap with him on play.
The exclusion of Damnation was what really got me as well. There are some decks where you need just need sweepers with Damnation being the sweeper of all sweepers.
The exclusion of Damnation was what really got me as well. There are some decks where you need just need sweepers with Damnation being the sweeper of all sweepers.
Yeap...I'm considering 2 copies of each Damnation and Engineered..the later it's so good against almost every deck and Damnation, just sweeps the board away, period.
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Thank you, glad to read that!
Could be good, but I think its too slow and clunky, I really don't want to spend 2 mana on a card that doesn't do something right away in this current meta I think. But It did see play already, although not much. If you want to try it, go for it and report back how it went!
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
4 Swamp
2 Forest
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
Noncreature Spells [26]
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Fatal Push
3 Terminate
4 Blood Moon
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Collective Brutality
For the manabase, I think you need 24 lands. The curve looks higher than a regular Jund list.
I realise that the fact that those two decks exist means I should probably just sleeve up another deck but I've only been playing Jund a few months and I love the play style so even if I've got a few bad matchups I still want to play it.
So with this in mind I've been toying with the idea of running a single Watery Grave and a couple of Ceremonious Rejection in the sideboard.
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Collective Brutality
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Damnation
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
My sideboard curerntly looks like this and I'd probably drop Ishkanah, Grafwidow and either Ancient Grudge or Collective Brutality. There is a burn deck at the shop but recently the pilot has shown up with CatCombo. The Watery Grave would go in the flex slot.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Bolt is bolt, and the reach it provides it's just great and game winning sometimes..also it can help killing PWs. But it just don't kill opposing goyfs and the Death's Shadow himself. And there's a bunch of other creatures that bolt doesn't kill and pus does with revolt trigger on, I know that this is liability, but i believe that it must be considered.
Or a split between Bolt, Push and Terminate? Something around 3 Bolt, 2 Push and 3 Terminate...what do you guys think of it?
How do we fell about it?
UR Twin - RIP
I think the 24th land and the 2nd forest is very good suggestion, because the only card that cost BB in the main is LotV and sometimes I need the green for tarmo and huntmaster under BM. This deck has more 3cc and 4cc cards than regular jund too.
I haven't miss decay much,I want to minimize the cards that need Green to cast in the main so I drop decay. But I think put an extra pulse in the main for various artifact and enchant removal is fine. I will test it and let you guys know the results.
Surgical Extraction is great against DS which just play DS and Tarmogoyf as threats, kill them is not enough because it's possible to bring them back thanks LtLH and Kolaghan's co.
An other good card against DS is scavenging ooze.
Moreover, taking the actual meta given by Modern Nexus, the couple Fulminator Mage + Surgical Extraction is extremely powerful against new Tiers 1 decks (Valakut, Eldrazi Tron, Gx Tron).
For the point about Lightning Bolt vs Fatal Push, if you would replace it, you should probably play The Rock with a better mana-base and Phyrexian Obliterator.
I'm glad to be back on this forum, Flyingdelver, a huge respect for your work.
In May I'll go to GP Copenhague with traditional Jund so April will be a intense month of trainings against this new format.
Gus
Hey Gus, I've also been playing 3 Surgicals in the SB. Would you mind sharing your current SB list?
What do you think about the list posted at the very end? With a little adjustments this list looks intriguing, and I am always a fan of Blood Moon shenanigans, given that it should be fantastic against Eldrazi and DSJ in general.
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
Noncreature Spells [23]
3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
2 Terminate
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raging Ravine
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Collective Brutality
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Blood Moon
Main board seems pretty straightforward, and probably I would switch a Fatal Push for the third terminate.
Sideboard seems a little bit off.
I do like Fulminator plus Blood Moon, but i believe that Surgical must be a sb staple for us, and also 3 anger seems excessive and I would swap two of them for a Damnation plus Engineered Explosives or two Damnations.
UR Twin - RIP
Here is my SB (I already play 1 Finks and 3rd Thoughtseize MD) :
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Obstinate Baloth
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Pithing Needle
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Damnation
Gus
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I guess because of Fatal Push nowadays, it doesn't. Also on a general note, single target hard removal is very highly played right now. I think this makes Obliterator not good enough to play.
Overall, I've come around on her main deck choices. The sideboard leaves quite a bit to be desired, but I assume this is also dependent on the metagame she had in mind.
The main board it's just kill and discard spell and value creatures. Pretty much the typical Jund deck.
The SB it's a little bit sketchy, i don't like all that land hate and i'm torn between Fulminator Mage and Blood Moon, the later seems weak against any Eldrazi and Tron variation, because they can easily play around that card..it's more a catch all against any other greedy deck, such as DS or even some sort of Jeskai/Grixis deck.
Fuminator + Surgical seems a great combo against the big mana decks, but it must be assembled on turn 3 at the maximum I think.
Those big mana decks it's and always will be a HUGE problem for midrange Jund.
Regardless her other options..I miss Engineered Explosives and Damnation, which are huge sweepers and deals with almost every threat, and that's it's my approach against Eldrazi decks..and I'm having a decent win rate against Bant and Eldrazi Tron.
Kalitas can be game winning or a time walk, because tapping out for him and he gets killed right away..it's a huge tempo loss, that's why I think Huntmaster is better, because he generates 2 life plus another body and pressure the opposing side to do anything to prevent him to flip...that's a sensation I don't fell with Kalitas, even if he doesn't get kill right away, I never fell like i'll win no matter what if a untap with him on play.
UR Twin - RIP
Yeap...I'm considering 2 copies of each Damnation and Engineered..the later it's so good against almost every deck and Damnation, just sweeps the board away, period.
UR Twin - RIP