The question I am asking is, can LL help us against the toptier matchupts right now: Eldrazi Tron, Bant Eldrazi and Death' Shadow. My guess is no most likely, in any eldrazi matchup there is no single card to hit which improves our matchup drastically I think, and against death's shadow it does seem slow.
I really wouldn't bring it in against Tron because their threats are redundant.
But they really don't have that many.
All of which just end the game if you don't answer them in time. I've found it's almost impossible to beat Tron by going after their Win-cons. Lands buy you time to Aggro out, but if they have Tron online and you're just spending time answering what they throw down, they're just going to continue to draw more powerful stuff.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The worst part isn't the pain, or the smell, or even the fear of death. It's hearing the clatter of bone on stone and knowing the bones are yours."BRG
Uh not really. Once they're in top deck mode, they have to luck out or find an Ancient Stirrings. All of that takes time. Ugin also does nothing to Raging Ravine. It's how I've beaten them in those rare moments. Karn and Ulamog are just insufferable.
Hi everyone,
I'm new to playing Jund. Been slowly collecting pieces over the last several years and finally completed the mainboard this week. I'm pretty excited.
I read the primer and the last several pages of this thread and have a couple questions. Honestly, I think most of my questions stem from being less familiar with the meta and just plain not getting to play as much modern as I'd like. So please bear with me, and any help/explanation you can provide would be most appreciated. =) The list I'm running is a pretty stock Jund list...
Sideboard is a work in progress and I'm still trying to acquire some of the cards. For now I'm just following the sideboard template in the primer since I don't know my local meta as well as I'd like.
My questions
1) The more recent decks I've seen on this thread opt for Huntmaster of the Fells rather than Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet as the 4-drop of choice. The primer says that Huntmaster is the better option for an unknown meta, but is it just the safer option overall right now?
2) It seems like Fulminator Mage is preferred over Blood Moon. Is three land hate in the sideboard still the consensus? I already have two fulminator mages but I'm hesitant to try and trade for the third one right now since it recently spiked in price. Just making sure the card is making a real difference in the matchups where it's needed.
3) The safest route for sweepers in the sideboard seems to be 2x Damnation, 1x Anger of the Gods and just call it a day, but I think that might just be because I don't want to think about it too much. I definitely don't understand when Engineered Explosives is good (I guess verses decks that have a lot of the same CMC cards?). Is it worth thinking about more or is the most straightforward answer probably the correct one here?
4) Not sure what my last two sideboard cards will be, but will probably try to add cards that are strong verses the decks my friends play. You can never go wrong just making sure you beat your friends. =)
Uh not really. Once they're in top deck mode, they have to luck out or find an Ancient Stirrings. All of that takes time. Ugin also does nothing to Raging Ravine. It's how I've beaten them in those rare moments. Karn and Ulamog are just insufferable.
OK, extract their Karn and see how well you fare against Ugin, Ulamog, World Breaker, Walking Ballista and Wurmcoil Engine and please do report back.
Lost Legacy does not help you beat Tron one bit. I wish it did.
Uh not really. Once they're in top deck mode, they have to luck out or find an Ancient Stirrings. All of that takes time. Ugin also does nothing to Raging Ravine. It's how I've beaten them in those rare moments. Karn and Ulamog are just insufferable.
OK, extract their Karn and see how well you fare against Ugin, Ulamog, World Breaker, Walking Ballista and Wurmcoil Engine and please do report back.
Lost Legacy does not help you beat Tron one bit. I wish it did.
I was responding to the comment about their threats all being the same. They're not. Without Karn and Ugin, a game against Tron is far more manageable.
Uh not really. Once they're in top deck mode, they have to luck out or find an Ancient Stirrings. All of that takes time. Ugin also does nothing to Raging Ravine. It's how I've beaten them in those rare moments. Karn and Ulamog are just insufferable.
OK, extract their Karn and see how well you fare against Ugin, Ulamog, World Breaker, Walking Ballista and Wurmcoil Engine and please do report back.
Lost Legacy does not help you beat Tron one bit. I wish it did.
I was responding to the comment about their threats all being the same. They're not. Without Karn and Ugin, a game against Tron is far more manageable.
My questions
1) The more recent decks I've seen on this thread opt for Huntmaster of the Fells rather than Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet as the 4-drop of choice. The primer says that Huntmaster is the better option for an unknown meta, but is it just the safer option overall right now?
2) It seems like Fulminator Mage is preferred over Blood Moon. Is three land hate in the sideboard still the consensus? I already have two fulminator mages but I'm hesitant to try and trade for the third one right now since it recently spiked in price. Just making sure the card is making a real difference in the matchups where it's needed.
3) The safest route for sweepers in the sideboard seems to be 2x Damnation, 1x Anger of the Gods and just call it a day, but I think that might just be because I don't want to think about it too much. I definitely don't understand when Engineered Explosives is good (I guess verses decks that have a lot of the same CMC cards?). Is it worth thinking about more or is the most straightforward answer probably the correct one here?
4) Not sure what my last two sideboard cards will be, but will probably try to add cards that are strong verses the decks my friends play. You can never go wrong just making sure you beat your friends. =)
1) Yeah, pretty much. Kalitas is outclassed by Eldrazi threats right now, and singlet target removal is at its peak right now probably. Therefore Huntmaster is overall better.
2) Yeah, go with 3 Land Hate, this is still up to date right now.
3) EE is insane vs. Merfolk for example. it kills every 2 CMC creature they have. But I would advice to go for 2 Damnations right now, due to Eldrazi being quite relevant. But, of course, this all depends on your personal meta.
4) Yeah, basically, you have to figure out your own meta and then adapt your deck to it. Maybe you don't need Land Hate at all, if you meta simple consist of no deck that you want the hate against.
Have you got any idea/tech card against the ABZAN SCALES deck?
Playing with abzan I have no problem in the mu: path exiles hangarback, push kills every creature he plays and I have 2 tasigur too. So abzan has got better removal and bigger creatures than jund in this mu.
With jund @.@ terminate is awful against hangarback and Bolt doesn't always kill what the deck plays so... what is the strategy? Except pray to not be paired with that deck there are 2 in my lgs so, it's a problem eheh
Anger of the Gods is probably pretty good against this deck (due to exiling). Next to artifact removal in the form of KCommand and Ancient Grudge (For Arcbound, Walking, Hangarback and Arcbound Worker) of course. Next obvously Damnation will do some work. I am thinking Kalitas will be insane in this MU, as you deny the opponents dying triggers for modular and hangarback.
As for strategy, I think you don't need something special for it. Increase the amount of sweepers and artifact removal in your SB. Discard seems really good against the deck, snapping their creature from the hand certainly feels like the best way to get rid of them. You could try NOSB and see what it does for you. It seems they play many tokens potentially and often times they want to play hangarback/Ballista on 1 first.
Uh not really. Once they're in top deck mode, they have to luck out or find an Ancient Stirrings. All of that takes time. Ugin also does nothing to Raging Ravine. It's how I've beaten them in those rare moments. Karn and Ulamog are just insufferable.
OK, extract their Karn and see how well you fare against Ugin, Ulamog, World Breaker, Walking Ballista and Wurmcoil Engine and please do report back.
Lost Legacy does not help you beat Tron one bit. I wish it did.
I was responding to the comment about their threats all being the same. They're not. Without Karn and Ugin, a game against Tron is far more manageable.
My comment, the one you were responding to, had nothing to do with their treats all being the same.
I really wouldn't bring it in against Tron because their threats are redundant.
But they really don't have that many.
All of which just end the game if you don't answer them in time. I've found it's almost impossible to beat Tron by going after their Win-cons. Lands buy you time to Aggro out, but if they have Tron online and you're just spending time answering what they throw down, they're just going to continue to draw more powerful stuff.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The worst part isn't the pain, or the smell, or even the fear of death. It's hearing the clatter of bone on stone and knowing the bones are yours."BRG
Either I clicked on the wrong post or I should've just said "@whocansay" because I wasn't responding to your post. I responded to the one above it (the one I already responded to once). He literally said the threats are redundant other than Karn and Ulamog. I don't think they are.
I doubt you get a favored matchup vs eldrazi tron if you follow the sideboardguide suggested in the primer.
Like chaos021 said, its not favorable, so what are you exactly hoping for? If you want to build a regular and balanced jund deck these are the best options you have.
If you think sideboarding automatically changes any bad matchup into a favourable one you really missed a major point, because its not necessarily.
I couldn't find the Jund forum in the tier 1 section. I never thought I'd see it down here in the tier 2 subforum.
Mainly thanks to Death's Shadow from being so popular and thus because of the changes from original Jund to that deck isn't that hard. Don't get me wrong, Jund is still super tier in a way, the same cards and core construction hasn't really changed.
Folks, i have a event this weekend, with 2 MM boxes prize support and with a rebound event which will have another box.
This is what looks like my 75 and I'm expecting an open field plus the usual meta at my LGS, which I'm already prepared for.
Suggestions and tips are welcome!! Tks!!!
Observations:
4 Terminates: A concession for Bant Eldrazi and Eldrazi Tron matchu-ups, and it's also the best removal around..killing almost everything important in almos every match.
1 Engineered Explosives MB: I believe that this is a catch all type of card, which can deal with swarm types of agro and pesky permanents.
Have any of you considered playing Tireless Tracker instead of 4-CMC stuff or something else?
I've been testing a 1-of Tireless Tracker over a Huntmaster in the main and when it's good, it's really good. The last game I played it got up to 8/7 and I drew five extra cards. I've been a fan of Huntmaster for awhile but what's kind of turning me off about it is that being a 4/4 just isn't impressive when playing against Tasigur, Eldrazi, Death's Shadow, and Goyf. Dropping it on turn four and playing a fetch is just sweet, sweet value.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The question I am asking is, can LL help us against the toptier matchupts right now: Eldrazi Tron, Bant Eldrazi and Death' Shadow. My guess is no most likely, in any eldrazi matchup there is no single card to hit which improves our matchup drastically I think, and against death's shadow it does seem slow.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
But they really don't have that many.
All of which just end the game if you don't answer them in time. I've found it's almost impossible to beat Tron by going after their Win-cons. Lands buy you time to Aggro out, but if they have Tron online and you're just spending time answering what they throw down, they're just going to continue to draw more powerful stuff.
I'm new to playing Jund. Been slowly collecting pieces over the last several years and finally completed the mainboard this week. I'm pretty excited.
I read the primer and the last several pages of this thread and have a couple questions. Honestly, I think most of my questions stem from being less familiar with the meta and just plain not getting to play as much modern as I'd like. So please bear with me, and any help/explanation you can provide would be most appreciated. =) The list I'm running is a pretty stock Jund list...
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Forest
2x Overgrown Tomb
3x Raging Ravine
1x Stomping Ground
2x Swamp
1x Twilight Mire
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wooded Foothills
4x Dark Confidant
2x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tarmogoyf
Spells/Walkers
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Terminate
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Thoughtseize
4x Liliana of the Veil
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Damnation
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Collective Brutality
2x Ancient Grudge
Sideboard is a work in progress and I'm still trying to acquire some of the cards. For now I'm just following the sideboard template in the primer since I don't know my local meta as well as I'd like.
My questions
1) The more recent decks I've seen on this thread opt for Huntmaster of the Fells rather than Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet as the 4-drop of choice. The primer says that Huntmaster is the better option for an unknown meta, but is it just the safer option overall right now?
2) It seems like Fulminator Mage is preferred over Blood Moon. Is three land hate in the sideboard still the consensus? I already have two fulminator mages but I'm hesitant to try and trade for the third one right now since it recently spiked in price. Just making sure the card is making a real difference in the matchups where it's needed.
3) The safest route for sweepers in the sideboard seems to be 2x Damnation, 1x Anger of the Gods and just call it a day, but I think that might just be because I don't want to think about it too much. I definitely don't understand when Engineered Explosives is good (I guess verses decks that have a lot of the same CMC cards?). Is it worth thinking about more or is the most straightforward answer probably the correct one here?
4) Not sure what my last two sideboard cards will be, but will probably try to add cards that are strong verses the decks my friends play. You can never go wrong just making sure you beat your friends. =)
My 540 card Free-for-All Multiplayer Cube
OK, extract their Karn and see how well you fare against Ugin, Ulamog, World Breaker, Walking Ballista and Wurmcoil Engine and please do report back.
Lost Legacy does not help you beat Tron one bit. I wish it did.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I was responding to the comment about their threats all being the same. They're not. Without Karn and Ugin, a game against Tron is far more manageable.
Eh, kinda. Ulamog is still game over honestly.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
1) Yeah, pretty much. Kalitas is outclassed by Eldrazi threats right now, and singlet target removal is at its peak right now probably. Therefore Huntmaster is overall better.
2) Yeah, go with 3 Land Hate, this is still up to date right now.
3) EE is insane vs. Merfolk for example. it kills every 2 CMC creature they have. But I would advice to go for 2 Damnations right now, due to Eldrazi being quite relevant. But, of course, this all depends on your personal meta.
4) Yeah, basically, you have to figure out your own meta and then adapt your deck to it. Maybe you don't need Land Hate at all, if you meta simple consist of no deck that you want the hate against.
Look at the Primer, you will find what you are seeking for.
Anger of the Gods is probably pretty good against this deck (due to exiling). Next to artifact removal in the form of KCommand and Ancient Grudge (For Arcbound, Walking, Hangarback and Arcbound Worker) of course. Next obvously Damnation will do some work. I am thinking Kalitas will be insane in this MU, as you deny the opponents dying triggers for modular and hangarback.
As for strategy, I think you don't need something special for it. Increase the amount of sweepers and artifact removal in your SB. Discard seems really good against the deck, snapping their creature from the hand certainly feels like the best way to get rid of them. You could try NOSB and see what it does for you. It seems they play many tokens potentially and often times they want to play hangarback/Ballista on 1 first.
It's not a favorable match. So yea, obvious fact is obvious.
My comment, the one you were responding to, had nothing to do with their treats all being the same.
URGifts StormUR
URBlue MoonUR
URKiln FiendUR
BURStormBUR
Like chaos021 said, its not favorable, so what are you exactly hoping for? If you want to build a regular and balanced jund deck these are the best options you have.
If you think sideboarding automatically changes any bad matchup into a favourable one you really missed a major point, because its not necessarily.
Mainly thanks to Death's Shadow from being so popular and thus because of the changes from original Jund to that deck isn't that hard. Don't get me wrong, Jund is still super tier in a way, the same cards and core construction hasn't really changed.
This is what looks like my 75 and I'm expecting an open field plus the usual meta at my LGS, which I'm already prepared for.
Suggestions and tips are welcome!! Tks!!!
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminate
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Twilight Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Kolaghan's Command
Observations:
4 Terminates: A concession for Bant Eldrazi and Eldrazi Tron matchu-ups, and it's also the best removal around..killing almost everything important in almos every match.
1 Engineered Explosives MB: I believe that this is a catch all type of card, which can deal with swarm types of agro and pesky permanents.
Tks all!
UR Twin - RIP
I've been testing a 1-of Tireless Tracker over a Huntmaster in the main and when it's good, it's really good. The last game I played it got up to 8/7 and I drew five extra cards. I've been a fan of Huntmaster for awhile but what's kind of turning me off about it is that being a 4/4 just isn't impressive when playing against Tasigur, Eldrazi, Death's Shadow, and Goyf. Dropping it on turn four and playing a fetch is just sweet, sweet value.