I watched the entire video, Hoogland did conclude 25 lands is the right call, and emphasized playing that much land
Can anyone bring themselves to play just 4 main deck discard? That truly horrifies me. I'd rather cut the third copy of Ooze and play the thoughtseize.
Yes, i also play the 5th discard over oozze number 3. I think 5 is about minimum maindeck
If boarding out Bolt turns out to be wrong, I can see boarding out KCommand actually.
I got a question regarding the SB. Are Grim Lavamancer and Liliana, the Last Hope not very similar cards? I mean sure lavamancer deals 2 damage instead of -2/-1 and can also ping to the face. I just wonder if not one of them should be cut and in that case lavamancer should be out? Can someone enlighten me?
What are looking for to replace that card? Liliana is not only a +1 planeswalker, she also has other abilities. And also, why is it wrong to have multiple ways to deal with small creatures? We run very few 1 mana removal now and did cut down on Decay and Terminate. You need cards against small creatures. And usually, a single copy of either Grim Lavamancer or LtLH wont be enough. The same goes for GY hate. Why would we need multiple copies of them then? That would be the same kind of question for me
Its those questions you gotta ask yourself. I mean, in a way, Push and Terminate are also very similar right? But is it weird that we play both?
Oh, I totally agree that Jeff is a horrible person. I actually avoid most of his videos, but he's playing Reid's list in a new meta.
I will admit though, he played very tight and I actually did find the stream helpful.
As for Velvs question about grim lavamanacer----that card is a god damn bomb. It looks really innocent, but that card is an absolute nightmare against small creature decks. I can't tell you how many times that card alone has decimated decks. It's often better than an Anger of the Gods. I think 1x Grim should always be in a Jund's 75, it's easily one of the best cards Jund has access to. If Abzan had access to an identical card in its color, it would be such a game changer.
Last Hope is also 3 mana, so she's slower, especially on the draw. She also does -1, which is a bigger deal than it sounds. Try landing a grim and a Last Hope against an Elves deck, it's absolutely hysterical.
Mathematically if you are trying to play 4x BBE and being greedy by playing tons of 3 drops, 25 is just about the minimum. Of course you can play fewer lands than that but then you can't act surprised when your opponent chains off BBEs while you're still casting 1 spell a turn
For all the worries about flooding out, it's not like Jund isn't gonna be able to use its mana well. Between the 4 manlands, BBE cascade into kcommand get back BBE cast BBE etc. etc., drawing extra lands is way less of a problem with the current configurations. Your heavy hitters are so high impact that you want to minimize the risk of having them stuck in your hand because getting snowballed on is such a massive problem now.
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Canadian East Coast grinder
I live for fair Magic.
Field of Ruin is bonkers. I'm very afraid to play against Jeskai without 4 basics. Between FoR and Path if you're not able to search up a basic it can be pretty brutal.
As for Velvs question about grim lavamanacer----that card is a god damn bomb. It looks really innocent, but that card is an absolute nightmare against small creature decks. I can't tell you how many times that card alone has decimated decks. It's often better than an Anger of the Gods. I think 1x Grim should always be in a Jund's 75, it's easily one of the best cards Jund has access to. If Abzan had access to an identical card in its color, it would be such a game changer.
Last Hope is also 3 mana, so she's slower, especially on the draw. She also does -1, which is a bigger deal than it sounds. Try landing a grim and a Last Hope against an Elves deck, it's absolutely hysterical.
Can confirm. Lavamancer is busted. I focus on cards like Lavaman, Last Hope, and Olivia against go-wide creature strategies instead of sweepers and it's brought me fantastic results. The only sweeper I'd consider playing is Anger of The Gods because it's 3-mana and has an exile clause.
As for Velvs question about grim lavamanacer----that card is a god damn bomb. It looks really innocent, but that card is an absolute nightmare against small creature decks. I can't tell you how many times that card alone has decimated decks. It's often better than an Anger of the Gods. I think 1x Grim should always be in a Jund's 75, it's easily one of the best cards Jund has access to. If Abzan had access to an identical card in its color, it would be such a game changer.
I will also backup grim lavamancer. It's the one card I always think about cutting when I'm looking for a SB slot. But he's just so versatile and deceptively powerful, that I never leave home without him. Obviously hes good against small creature decks. But he also comes in against random ***** like lantern. Dredge. Death's Shadow decks. Ponza. Mirror matches. Lingering souls decks. Burn. He doesn't exactly excel in those matchups, but he's always solid.
got rekt today by playing the same build as FlyingDelver posted.
G1: lost against mirror, nothing i could do
G2: lost against affinity, didnt expect blood moon in SB
G3: lost against grixis shadow, mull to 5 twice
G4: lost against blue moon. He had answer for EVERYTHING i played. Game 2 he slammed Keranos and gg
I had to mull A LOT today.. i hope its just a bad day
I feel im gonna trust my gut and go down to 24 lands and 3 BBE. And add Dreadbore/second push and another discard(back up to 6)
I'm really thinking about radical changes, i would try and playtest.
Some of those are:
- 7-8 discard maindeck; to counter control matchups. I really enjoyed the 8 discard in BG rock or Mardu Pyro. Downside is cascading in discard in other matchups pre-sb.
- playing 4 grim flayers. I would love to try how the deck-stacking for BBE would feel. Plus it could make us more aggressive. Another Upside is not losing life to bob. (i know greatness at any cost bla bla, but its just a thought and i feel a lot of ppl just play bob because jund always played bob - abzan used to play flayer and 0 bob and it was fine) Dont get me wrong, i love bob. But i just wanna explore different options.
- playing maindeck Finks (instead of oozses?) Adding more 2 for 1 cards to our deck, sick cascades, and better aggro/burn and agruably grind matchups. Downside is no GY hate maindeck.
Just some options that came to mind, i hope i am not gonna get too much ***** for this post because im challenging some jund fundamentals. Or maybe im just salty about my losses today.
got rekt today by playing the same build as FlyingDelver posted.
G1: lost against mirror, nothing i could do
G2: lost against affinity, didnt expect blood moon in SB
G3: lost against grixis shadow, mull to 5 twice
G4: lost against blue moon. He had answer for EVERYTHING i played. Game 2 he slammed Keranos and gg
I had to mull A LOT today.. i hope its just a bad day
I feel im gonna trust my gut and go down to 24 lands and 3 BBE. And add Dreadbore/second push and another discard(back up to 6)
sadpanda
Join the club, lost every single game today as well. Jund ain't good old Jund anymore...
I was messing around on Jeskai control, and dear god, FoR is EVERYWHERE. People are over preparing for man-lands
That's why I am running 4 basics at the moment - 2 swamps, 1 forest, 1 mountain. Yesterday I got spreading seas'ed twice and field of ruin'ed 3 times in a game.
Yep. It was his exact list. I thought I'd run with it and make changes as I felt necessary. I will say the Grixis Death's Shadow match up felt worse with the newer list than with the older list.
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Yes, i also play the 5th discard over oozze number 3. I think 5 is about minimum maindeck
Its a good card, you can run it if you like. I personally dont run it atm and keep it in my head as secondary option.
What are looking for to replace that card? Liliana is not only a +1 planeswalker, she also has other abilities. And also, why is it wrong to have multiple ways to deal with small creatures? We run very few 1 mana removal now and did cut down on Decay and Terminate. You need cards against small creatures. And usually, a single copy of either Grim Lavamancer or LtLH wont be enough. The same goes for GY hate. Why would we need multiple copies of them then? That would be the same kind of question for me
Its those questions you gotta ask yourself. I mean, in a way, Push and Terminate are also very similar right? But is it weird that we play both?
I will admit though, he played very tight and I actually did find the stream helpful.
As for Velvs question about grim lavamanacer----that card is a god damn bomb. It looks really innocent, but that card is an absolute nightmare against small creature decks. I can't tell you how many times that card alone has decimated decks. It's often better than an Anger of the Gods. I think 1x Grim should always be in a Jund's 75, it's easily one of the best cards Jund has access to. If Abzan had access to an identical card in its color, it would be such a game changer.
Last Hope is also 3 mana, so she's slower, especially on the draw. She also does -1, which is a bigger deal than it sounds. Try landing a grim and a Last Hope against an Elves deck, it's absolutely hysterical.
For all the worries about flooding out, it's not like Jund isn't gonna be able to use its mana well. Between the 4 manlands, BBE cascade into kcommand get back BBE cast BBE etc. etc., drawing extra lands is way less of a problem with the current configurations. Your heavy hitters are so high impact that you want to minimize the risk of having them stuck in your hand because getting snowballed on is such a massive problem now.
I live for fair Magic.
Legacy: D&T/Lands
Modern: BGx
Can confirm. Lavamancer is busted. I focus on cards like Lavaman, Last Hope, and Olivia against go-wide creature strategies instead of sweepers and it's brought me fantastic results. The only sweeper I'd consider playing is Anger of The Gods because it's 3-mana and has an exile clause.
I will also backup grim lavamancer. It's the one card I always think about cutting when I'm looking for a SB slot. But he's just so versatile and deceptively powerful, that I never leave home without him. Obviously hes good against small creature decks. But he also comes in against random ***** like lantern. Dredge. Death's Shadow decks. Ponza. Mirror matches. Lingering souls decks. Burn. He doesn't exactly excel in those matchups, but he's always solid.
G1: lost against mirror, nothing i could do
G2: lost against affinity, didnt expect blood moon in SB
G3: lost against grixis shadow, mull to 5 twice
G4: lost against blue moon. He had answer for EVERYTHING i played. Game 2 he slammed Keranos and gg
I had to mull A LOT today.. i hope its just a bad day
I feel im gonna trust my gut and go down to 24 lands and 3 BBE. And add Dreadbore/second push and another discard(back up to 6)
sadpanda
I haven't wanted to add dreadbore.
I did play a burn deck today, and both my Elves cascaded into a terminate, felt bad.
Still feeling very flooded out on the 25 land build.
I wouldn't go below 4x BBE, the card is outrageous.
Some of those are:
- 7-8 discard maindeck; to counter control matchups. I really enjoyed the 8 discard in BG rock or Mardu Pyro. Downside is cascading in discard in other matchups pre-sb.
- playing 4 grim flayers. I would love to try how the deck-stacking for BBE would feel. Plus it could make us more aggressive. Another Upside is not losing life to bob. (i know greatness at any cost bla bla, but its just a thought and i feel a lot of ppl just play bob because jund always played bob - abzan used to play flayer and 0 bob and it was fine) Dont get me wrong, i love bob. But i just wanna explore different options.
- playing maindeck Finks (instead of oozses?) Adding more 2 for 1 cards to our deck, sick cascades, and better aggro/burn and agruably grind matchups. Downside is no GY hate maindeck.
Just some options that came to mind, i hope i am not gonna get too much ***** for this post because im challenging some jund fundamentals. Or maybe im just salty about my losses today.
Join the club, lost every single game today as well. Jund ain't good old Jund anymore...
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
That's why I am running 4 basics at the moment - 2 swamps, 1 forest, 1 mountain. Yesterday I got spreading seas'ed twice and field of ruin'ed 3 times in a game.
Yep. It was his exact list. I thought I'd run with it and make changes as I felt necessary. I will say the Grixis Death's Shadow match up felt worse with the newer list than with the older list.