I find your first notion amusing. Every card in Jund does something. Otherwise why would we play it? Setting up Jund to be an aggro deck is still a mistake imo. Without ramp or better, cheap spells, where are we going to get all this aggression from? Not to mention, there are better options if we want to play aggro with BBE.
I am wondering if those of you who want to play fewer than 4 Bloodbraid Elf were playing Jund back in 2012, when it was without question one of the top two or three decks in Modern. If you didn't, please give the old 4 BBE, 4 Bolt, 4 Bob, 4 Liliana of the Veil core package a shot. This is really a no-brainer.
So, remember when I was the main optimistic one about a BBE unbanning here?
Anyway, I am very concerned about Jace, I'll be honest. I've almost always been a proponent of the 4/2 split on IOK and Thoughtseize, but at least with the influx of blue cards, the 3/3 split will probably be needed.
I have my playset all set. I am scrambling to buy 2x more Jaces
I really wonder if Jund could end up turning into BUG or Temur instead. I really wonder.
I think it's safe enough to say SFM isn't getting off that ban list for a very long time, which is a shame for Abzan, Esper and Tax players.
I really wonder if Jund could end up turning into BUG or Temur instead. I really wonder.
Everybody wants to see Reid's take on Jund now, but I would really like to see if he picks up his old pet deck Temur. He did two video series on it. It's a fun deck, but you sure do miss the hard removal black gives you.
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Grim Flayer needs to damage a player to gain you the _virtual_ card advantage. For that he many times also needs Delirium.
Don't get me wrong, I have been jamming 3 Flayers in Abzan and he can be insane in matchups versus like Storm or Slow control, but I still think that Bob is just better in card advantage game.
I just put my Lingering Souls back to the binder and took the BBEs out, feelsgoodman!
Here's my list so far. A couple of odd things though:
As of now I could only manage to get 3 Cliffs, but that number will be 4 (in place of a Marsh) as soon as i get my hands on another one. Perhaps I should have a basic mountain in the meantime? Although it really isn't optimal, for we really need the black.
I have an extra Pulse in the SB since I expect to see a lot of Jaces in my local meta (many wanted him to be unbanned). I was thinking of Dreadbore, but an extra Pulse would be more versatile, such as against Souls, Pyromancer and Warrens tokens.
If I had a 4th LOTV I would totally play her in a heartbeat, but for now I have a 3/2 split in the 75. 2 Last Hopes might be overkill, but with BBE and the new planeswalker rule, Liliana planeswalkers only get better.
Here's my list so far. A couple of odd things though:
As of now I could only manage to get 3 Cliffs, but that number will be 4 (in place of a Marsh) as soon as i get my hands on another one. Perhaps I should have a basic mountain in the meantime? Although it really isn't optimal, for we really need the black.
I have an extra Pulse in the SB since I expect to see a lot of Jaces in my local meta (many wanted him to be unbanned).
If I had a 4th LOTV I would totally play her in a heartbeat, but for now I have a 3/2 split in the 75. 2 Last Hopes might be overkill, but with BBE and the new planeswalker rule, Liliana planeswalkers only get better.
I had been contemplating the bolded for a few days before the BBE unbanning, so with her requiring R, I still wonder if it might be important. With the big influx of Field of Ruin with the release of Ixalan, I feel the mana base could be taxed pretty hard.
My initial thoughts on the change to our beloved Jund deck:
Since JTMS is unbanned, subsequently delve creatures, and big fatty creatures become worse, and small go-wide creatures become better against Jace. This automatically means Bolt becomes way better now (against Jace and the small creatures) which also works well with BBE. So 4 Bolts no questions asked in the beginning.
We need to think about our curve a little bit. Jamming 4 BBE is certainly the starting point, 100 %, although I think the sweetspot might be 3 copies. I would also try to go for 5 Lili PWs if possible OR 2 KCommand. I think running both is a bit hard IF we run 4 BBE. With 3 it might work.
Thoughtseize is certainly better now than IOK. If Jace warps the format, then I would start with a 4 TS and 2 IOK split.
I am very unsure about the number of Decays and Terminates to run in the deck. Also I am thinking of running a Dreadbore for Jace.
1 Maelstrom Pulse should still be somewhere in the 75 always I think. I also think 1 MD is a must, simply because of Jace.
I think Big Mana will try to prey on all the midrange/control decks arising, so we need to be aware of that.
I still think Bob is better than Grim Flayer but I think if we upper the curve that much and run more TS, Burn is also making a huge uptick in popularity. Time will tell how big that impact is.
NO LESS THAN 24 LANDS. Honestly people, let that damn 23 land garbage go already. I was always against it, and if not for now, there is absolutely no reason to prolong that nonsense.
I dont think we want to reach back to other older cards like Blightning or the like.
Hazoret might still be great to run. It can singlehandedly take out a Jace which was played and upticked right away.
Kitchen Finks back in the equation? I personally dont think so, but its a neat consideration.
My initial thoughts on the change to our beloved Jund deck:
Since JTMS is unbanned, subsequently delve creatures, and big fatty creatures become worse, and small go-wide creatures become better against Jace. This automatically means Bolt becomes way better now (against Jace and the small creatures) which also works well with BBE. So 4 Bolts no questions asked in the beginning.
We need to think about our curve a little bit. Jamming 4 BBE is certainly the starting point, 100 %, although I think the sweetspot might be 3 copies. I would also try to go for 5 Lili PWs if possible OR 2 KCommand. I think running both is a bit hard IF we run 4 BBE. With 3 it might work.
Thoughtseize is certainly better now than IOK. If Jace warps the format, then I would start with a 4 TS and 2 IOK split.
I am very unsure about the number of Decays and Terminates to run in the deck. Also I am thinking of running a Dreadbore for Jace.
1 Maelstrom Pulse should still be somewhere in the 75 always I think. I also think 1 MD is a must, simply because of Jace.
I think Big Mana will try to prey on all the midrange/control decks arising, so we need to be aware of that.
I still think Bob is better than Grim Flayer but I think if we upper the curve that much and run more TS, Burn is also making a huge uptick in popularity. Time will tell how big that impact is.
NO LESS THAN 24 LANDS. Honestly people, let that damn 23 land garbage go already. I was always against it, and if not for now, there is absolutely no reason to prolong that nonsense.
I dont think we want to reach back to other older cards like Blightning or the like.
Hazoret might still be great to run. It can singlehandedly take out a Jace which was played and upticked right away.
Kitchen Finks back in the equation? I personally dont think so, but its a neat consideration.
Agree with everything here. I'll probably start with 4 BBE but if I cut down to 3 I can fit in 5 lilis and 2 KCommands, which sounds great. For now going to try 4 BBE, 4 Lilis, and 2 KCommands.
Jund's back baby! ... I'm pretty new to MTG, been playing for a bit over a year, all on MTGO after starting out on Duels. I've tried out a few archetypes, but always come back to BGx... anyway, I'm looking forward to sitting down to a table for some paper Magic soon, and I think my deck will look something like this:
How do people feel about 3-4 of of Grim Flayer in these lists over Finks/Ooze. With this ability to set the top 3 cards of the deck that sounds like a sick way to set up or cascade trigger?
In particular, I'm thinking about Cascade, as well as the big-mana, and Jace decks... you could cascade into a Fatal Push and whiff, whereas a Dreadbore or Terminate is a sure-kill (pending indestructible of course). Hell, let's just go 4xDreadbore (ok I'm being silly now... or am I?)
One thing I also think will happen is less CB, particularly if Finks sees more play again. CB can't hit Jace, which is a huge deal. So back to Duresses against Control variants. Thrun is autoinclude also if Control is vastly present.
BG/x BG
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Dark Confidant
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Bloodbraid Elf
Spells (22)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Fatal Push
2x Terminate
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Kolaghan's Command
1x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Liliana of the Veil
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Wooded Foothills
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
1x Blood Crypt
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blooming Marsh
3x Raging Ravine
2x Swamp
1x Forest
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Grim Lavamancer
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
3x Collective Brutality
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Ancient Grudge
So, remember when I was the main optimistic one about a BBE unbanning here?
Anyway, I am very concerned about Jace, I'll be honest. I've almost always been a proponent of the 4/2 split on IOK and Thoughtseize, but at least with the influx of blue cards, the 3/3 split will probably be needed.
I have my playset all set. I am scrambling to buy 2x more Jaces
I really wonder if Jund could end up turning into BUG or Temur instead. I really wonder.
I think it's safe enough to say SFM isn't getting off that ban list for a very long time, which is a shame for Abzan, Esper and Tax players.
Everybody wants to see Reid's take on Jund now, but I would really like to see if he picks up his old pet deck Temur. He did two video series on it. It's a fun deck, but you sure do miss the hard removal black gives you.
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It's possible.
I could see a world where Grim is now in Bobs place, but I won't be testing from there, I'll let the pros come to a consensus
I think it'll probably still be Bob, but I don't doubt whatsoever a world where Grim is now the 4x of
Don't get me wrong, I have been jamming 3 Flayers in Abzan and he can be insane in matchups versus like Storm or Slow control, but I still think that Bob is just better in card advantage game.
I just put my Lingering Souls back to the binder and took the BBEs out, feelsgoodman!
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Dark Confidant
4 Bloodbraid Elf
Land
3 Raging Ravine
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
Sorcery
3 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Planeswalker
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Grim Lavamancer
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Collective Brutality
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Here's my list so far. A couple of odd things though:
As of now I could only manage to get 3 Cliffs, but that number will be 4 (in place of a Marsh) as soon as i get my hands on another one. Perhaps I should have a basic mountain in the meantime? Although it really isn't optimal, for we really need the black.
I have an extra Pulse in the SB since I expect to see a lot of Jaces in my local meta (many wanted him to be unbanned). I was thinking of Dreadbore, but an extra Pulse would be more versatile, such as against Souls, Pyromancer and Warrens tokens.
If I had a 4th LOTV I would totally play her in a heartbeat, but for now I have a 3/2 split in the 75. 2 Last Hopes might be overkill, but with BBE and the new planeswalker rule, Liliana planeswalkers only get better.
I had been contemplating the bolded for a few days before the BBE unbanning, so with her requiring R, I still wonder if it might be important. With the big influx of Field of Ruin with the release of Ixalan, I feel the mana base could be taxed pretty hard.
4 Dark Confidant
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Raging Ravine
1 Twilight Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
2 Forest
This is what I'm gonna rock right away we can be a value deck again!
Agree with everything here. I'll probably start with 4 BBE but if I cut down to 3 I can fit in 5 lilis and 2 KCommands, which sounds great. For now going to try 4 BBE, 4 Lilis, and 2 KCommands.
I think jund will jam 4 bbe, but 3 is also realistic
No blightning
I super wouldn't be shocked if fatal push disspeared from the deck, but I imagine it'll be a 2 of in jund
Kitchen finks could very well see more play again, don't be that hasty
I'm sure dresdbore will see play
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Blooming Marsh
1x Forest
2x Overgrown Tomb
3x Raging Ravine
1x Stomping Ground
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wooded Foothills
2x Fatal Push
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Terminate
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Thoughtseize
3x Bloodbraid Elf
4x Dark Confidant
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Liliana, the last Hope
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Collective Brutality
1x Dreadbore
3x Fulminator Mage
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Grim Lavamancer
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Night of Soul's Betrayal
2x Nihil Spellbomb
Can't wait!
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Terminate
2x Dreadbore
In particular, I'm thinking about Cascade, as well as the big-mana, and Jace decks... you could cascade into a Fatal Push and whiff, whereas a Dreadbore or Terminate is a sure-kill (pending indestructible of course). Hell, let's just go 4xDreadbore (ok I'm being silly now... or am I?)