Hi there guys, I have been looking forward to join modern again for a while and I always liked jund, right know tarmogoyf is quite affordable (in comparision with a year and half ago) but I dont feel that jund is in a good spot right now and not quite sure if it will be soon. I like others deck but I feel that this is the one that is most likely for me to enjoy.
So what do u think guys, is a good moment to invest into jund hoping for a BBE unban or something that shakes the formamt (like big mana strategies ban)? Or is better to let it go and look for another deck?
I honestly would just wait for the PT at least and maybe even for the B&R announcement. Its pretty soon. If BBE gets unbanned, I guess the deck will see a big uptick in play again, but I doubt that the card prices would shoot for the roof at that point.
On the other hand, its generally never wrong to invest in the Jund cards, as most of them will likely always see some play in Modern and eternal formats generally. So its nothing wrong if you invest. But if you want to play Modern competitively, and figring out what deck to play, then I guess I'll wait, because right now, I cannot recommend Jund in the sense of competitiveness. If fun is you desire, then by any means just buy the cards and start Junding people out!
There are many decks that have a similar playstyle but are more competitive right now because they are able to attack the meta better than Jund. Reid Duke wrote an article series about these decks recently and gives you an idea about strenghts and weaknesses of the mentioned decks. Then, if Jund becomes better again because of meta-shifts, unbannings or printings of new cards you already have the core and only have to invest a small amount of money.
Here is the link to the article series and welcome to the world of Fatal Push and Thoughtseize: https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/thoughtseizes-and-fatal-pushes-part-vii-lessons/
Let me present you the new complexion of the Jund primer, which I call "Jund 2.0".
New features include:
New stunning and recognizable headliners for all important sections. This should help to make the primer more eye-catching, attractive and more organized, as you will much more easily find the section you want to find while scrolling through the primer.
Structural changes to a more simplistic form. Simplicity is often times better than complexity. I reduced the amount of textboxes and dividings to a minimum, which not only grants that more information is displayed on the same area, but also that the reader has a better overview of which section he or she is reading atm. Gone are the sometimes overwhelmingly confusing boxes which were not needed.
Recreated "Deck Construction" section. Gone are the big textwalls slammed in fron of the reader making it difficult to read and guide through. No longer are the individual cards displayed as simple lists and links. Now each and every card gains its own section, greatly displayed with its card image to make it easier to find and read.
Added a new section called "Useful Articles". This was the first part of the "Jund 2.0" update. Jund is one of the oldest strategies in modern and therefore many different articles have been written about or around the archetype. It would be a shame to not include important gems in a seperate section! Enjoy the section and hopefully this will help you piloting the deck better. It will be updated regularly to include newest additions.
New artworks included in the whole Primer. I replaced older artworks with newer and more quality-rich ones. This helps making the primer more memorable as people visit the page, more likely to come back and check on updates.
The primer should be visually as well as informally the best experience one could get and my goal is to create the best Jund primer in the whole magic world. Therefore I want to keep improving on the primer and add more features along the way.
More to come! My next goal is to rework the complete Matchup Section to give the sideboarding strategies a new finish. I am currently figuring out on how to approach this. I am not sure if a general way to sideboard is the best way to do it, or if it would be better to have a sample decklist and detailed "cuts" and "bring ins". If anyone has suggestions on this topic, don't hesitate to let me know!
And as always, feedback greatly appreciated, since the most important recipient of this primer is you, the mtgsalvation community.
Thank you guys for your support and contribution to the Jund threat!
I kinda have the feeling that there won't be a BBE unban in february.
Why? Jund and Abzan continue to be pretty garbage decks in Opens, Classics, Team Events and GPs. It's certainly not killing it on MTGO. This is probably the most realistic chance there's ever been. If it doesn't happen in February then I am absolutely convinced it'll never take place.
As I call it a garbage deck, I'm excited to play it tonight regardless.
I feel that Wizards are happy with where Jund currently is. I may be wrong but it seems that Jund is paying its price for DRS sins and this will be the case forever. It may sound stupid but I really feel thta Wizards "killed" Jund on purpose.
That's cynical. Jund has been, let's be honest, a bad deck for all of 2017.
WOTC definitely favors fair decks more, it's obvious how much they dislike combo in this game across all formats. Blue is doing well so I think an SFM unban is out of the question, but I'm truly feeling good about a BBE unban.
I'm pretty sure the PT is going to show just how bad in a spot GBx decks are---even though GBx decks have had poor results for most of 2017.
I have to agree with Spsiegel1987 here, if BBE doesn't see an unban in Feb then it's simply never getting unbanned. Jund is poorly situated currently (and has been for quite some time) and BBE isn't going to have an effect on any other deck.
Yeah, unless it would create a new archetype. However, not likely better than Jund.
I think that the biggest problem with Jund's positioning this past year is that Lightning Bolt hasn't been good since the rise of Eldrazi and Death's Shadow. Jund only stayed in Tier 1 throughout 2016 because it aggressively preyed on Infect and Suicide Zoo, and those decks helped to suppress the big mana decks. The banning of Gitaxian Probe obviously canned those strategies, which removed the last decks that Jund really preyed on. Jund's poorer positioning was compounded by the printing of Fatal Push, and a surge in Tron and Scapeshift over the past year. Hazoret was a fantastic addition to the deck, but she still doesn't address the reasons why Jund fell out of favor in the first place. Truth be told, I'm not that convinced that BBE will address those problems either, but the boost in raw power would certainly be welcome. I could see BBE taking Jund in an even worse direction because a lot of BBE lists that people have put up are running 3-4 Lightning Bolt and trimming on Fatal Push, which really doesn't line up well against the top decks in the format right now.
I agree, but I think Bolt was in a worse position already. Bolt certainly has become better since decks are dodging Fatal Push. Although Push is still great and very present, Bolt is actually the most played spell in Modern right now. (and thats not just due to Burn)
Oh yeah, to be clear I'm not saying that BBE shouldn't be unbanned or that it's somehow a bad card. I think it definitely will help Jund, it just remains to be seen if it'll help enough.
Grim Flayer continued to perform, especially with 7 discard spells main, and 1 more post-board. It let's you go T-1 Discard, T-2 Threat even more often, which is what we want to be doing. I want to fit a 3rd Grim Flayer into the deck somehow for testing it more, but I'm not sure what to cut. I'm actually considering cutting one of our sacred cows, Dark Confidant. That way it would be 3x Grim Flayer 3x Confidant.
There is no world where Grim Flayer is a better card than Dark Confidant; I highly advise against doing so.
I know magic players are prone to hyperbole, but it's hard to take comments like this seriously.
And there absolutely are worlds where I would exchange card advantage for card selection + a clock. I'm just trying to figure out if that's the world we are in now.
The real honest world we are in is that playing a fair deck that isn't Grixis Shadow or Jeskai is a handicap, modern is dominated by linear strategies often.
The issue with Grim Flayer is activating delirium. It's fantastic when it's a 4/4 early on, or if the opponent has no answer for it. But you'll find times where he's got a wall of creatures on the other side and now you just have a 2/2 trampler not doing anything.
This is why Bob is a better card in most cases. You'll amass CA and dig into your answers naturally from seeing so much of the deck.
Game 2 I had to grind my way to a victory with Last Hope, a cage, removal and a Bob bringing me down to 5 life.
Game 3 is where things went awful. On the draw, I had 2x Bobs, 1x Bolt, 1x discard, 3 land. Elf player plays Santuarary Shapeshift. I draw an Abrupt Decay. I play discard. He plays a creature, I bolt it. My turn 3 I had a complete brainfart and fetch a blood crypt and abrupt decay his enchantment with no green. So, all I can do is just play a grim lavamancer instead.
Then he played a creature and forge-tender, and already tilted, I K-Command his forge until we realize I can't do that.
Then I played 2x bobs and had them flip incredibly generous for me while he accrued cards from all his removal and a stranded Decay in my hand.
Meanwhile, his brother is far off in the background and I can hear him calling me a cheater and saying things, "he doesn't even know how to play with his cards"
It was an incredibly upsetting and tilting experience. I lose to the elf player and shake his hand.
I was pretty upset not by the loss, just how it all happened and then being trash talked in the background.
I don't think the elf player could have possibly won had I not punted so incredibly hard, I had nothing but removal, 2x Bobs flipping with minimum damage, and grim.
Then I got paired against Tron. Almost beat him game 3. I actually nearly won, had I been on the play I would have had him for exact.
Pretty awful experience tonight.
I played with 2x Rabbles and 1x Hazoret. Hazoret is kind of interfering with Bob sticking around though.
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I honestly would just wait for the PT at least and maybe even for the B&R announcement. Its pretty soon. If BBE gets unbanned, I guess the deck will see a big uptick in play again, but I doubt that the card prices would shoot for the roof at that point.
On the other hand, its generally never wrong to invest in the Jund cards, as most of them will likely always see some play in Modern and eternal formats generally. So its nothing wrong if you invest. But if you want to play Modern competitively, and figring out what deck to play, then I guess I'll wait, because right now, I cannot recommend Jund in the sense of competitiveness. If fun is you desire, then by any means just buy the cards and start Junding people out!
Here is the link to the article series and welcome to the world of Fatal Push and Thoughtseize:
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/thoughtseizes-and-fatal-pushes-part-vii-lessons/
-1 Scooze (2)
-1 Terminate
-2 4 Drops that aren't BBE
Pretty sure something like this would be a good place to start, I imagine 4x bolts would be played again.
New features include:
The primer should be visually as well as informally the best experience one could get and my goal is to create the best Jund primer in the whole magic world. Therefore I want to keep improving on the primer and add more features along the way.
More to come! My next goal is to rework the complete Matchup Section to give the sideboarding strategies a new finish. I am currently figuring out on how to approach this. I am not sure if a general way to sideboard is the best way to do it, or if it would be better to have a sample decklist and detailed "cuts" and "bring ins". If anyone has suggestions on this topic, don't hesitate to let me know!
And as always, feedback greatly appreciated, since the most important recipient of this primer is you, the mtgsalvation community.
Thank you guys for your support and contribution to the Jund threat!
Your Jund Wizard
FlyingDelver
Why? Jund and Abzan continue to be pretty garbage decks in Opens, Classics, Team Events and GPs. It's certainly not killing it on MTGO. This is probably the most realistic chance there's ever been. If it doesn't happen in February then I am absolutely convinced it'll never take place.
As I call it a garbage deck, I'm excited to play it tonight regardless.
That's cynical. Jund has been, let's be honest, a bad deck for all of 2017.
WOTC definitely favors fair decks more, it's obvious how much they dislike combo in this game across all formats. Blue is doing well so I think an SFM unban is out of the question, but I'm truly feeling good about a BBE unban.
I'm pretty sure the PT is going to show just how bad in a spot GBx decks are---even though GBx decks have had poor results for most of 2017.
Yeah, unless it would create a new archetype. However, not likely better than Jund.
R1: Dredge 2-1
R2: Burn 2-0
R3: Infect 2-1
R4: ID
Here's the list I was running:
4x Dark Confidant
4x Goyf
2x Scooze
2x Grim Flayer
4x Lotv
4x Iok
3x Thoughtseize
4x Bolt
2x Fatal Push
2x Terminate
1x Dreadbore
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Kolaghan's Command
1x Mishra's bauble
23 Lands
SB:
1x THoughtseize
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Lilly Last Hope
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Surgical Extraction
2x Nihil Spellbomb
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Collective Brutality
1x Grafdigger's Cage
Grim Flayer continued to perform, especially with 7 discard spells main, and 1 more post-board. It let's you go T-1 Discard, T-2 Threat even more often, which is what we want to be doing. I want to fit a 3rd Grim Flayer into the deck somehow for testing it more, but I'm not sure what to cut. I'm actually considering cutting one of our sacred cows, Dark Confidant. That way it would be 3x Grim Flayer 3x Confidant.
Yep. Totally not possible. Ever.
I get it, you always have to call me out.
I'm being extreme---but cutting a Bob for Grim isn't a good idea.
I know magic players are prone to hyperbole, but it's hard to take comments like this seriously.
And there absolutely are worlds where I would exchange card advantage for card selection + a clock. I'm just trying to figure out if that's the world we are in now.
The issue with Grim Flayer is activating delirium. It's fantastic when it's a 4/4 early on, or if the opponent has no answer for it. But you'll find times where he's got a wall of creatures on the other side and now you just have a 2/2 trampler not doing anything.
This is why Bob is a better card in most cases. You'll amass CA and dig into your answers naturally from seeing so much of the deck.
I played against Elves.
Game 1 I got ran over
Game 2 I had to grind my way to a victory with Last Hope, a cage, removal and a Bob bringing me down to 5 life.
Game 3 is where things went awful. On the draw, I had 2x Bobs, 1x Bolt, 1x discard, 3 land. Elf player plays Santuarary Shapeshift. I draw an Abrupt Decay. I play discard. He plays a creature, I bolt it. My turn 3 I had a complete brainfart and fetch a blood crypt and abrupt decay his enchantment with no green. So, all I can do is just play a grim lavamancer instead.
Then he played a creature and forge-tender, and already tilted, I K-Command his forge until we realize I can't do that.
Then I played 2x bobs and had them flip incredibly generous for me while he accrued cards from all his removal and a stranded Decay in my hand.
Meanwhile, his brother is far off in the background and I can hear him calling me a cheater and saying things, "he doesn't even know how to play with his cards"
It was an incredibly upsetting and tilting experience. I lose to the elf player and shake his hand.
I was pretty upset not by the loss, just how it all happened and then being trash talked in the background.
I don't think the elf player could have possibly won had I not punted so incredibly hard, I had nothing but removal, 2x Bobs flipping with minimum damage, and grim.
Then I got paired against Tron. Almost beat him game 3. I actually nearly won, had I been on the play I would have had him for exact.
Pretty awful experience tonight.
I played with 2x Rabbles and 1x Hazoret. Hazoret is kind of interfering with Bob sticking around though.