I'm traveling to SCG Dallas in a couple days and would appreciate some input on my Jund list. I'm aware that Jund isn't the wisest choice for the weekend, but I can either buy into Death's Shadow or buy MM cards. The latter won, so I will try to make the best of it. I've played Jund a year and a half, so I'm comfortable with the deck/decisions/sideboarding.
The first thing you probably noticed was the slaughter of a sacred cow: 2x Bolt. Why? Bolt is too soft a removal spell right now. I'd rather have a Terminate or Maelstrom Pulse if I'm facing down a 5/5 Death's Shadow or an Endbringer. Overall, I want 2x Fatal Push, the 2nd Pulse, and the 4th Terminate as a Hedge against Death's Shadow and Eldrazi Tron.
The Leylines in the board are specifically for Death's Shadow. A friend of mine has been grinding the deck for a few weeks and struggles the most with exile-based removal while, at the same time, grinding through 1:1 kill spells (he won a match last week through 7(!) removal spells). Jund is lacking in the exile department, so I'll be much happier to see Leyline in my opening hand than Spellbomb. Odds are good that they have T1 disruption, so getting a "free" spell and permanently turning off delirium, Kommand, Liliana the Last Hope, AND part 2 of Lingering Souls seems too good to pass up. My experience in the matchup is lacking (playtesting later in the week), but I'm assuming that I'll board out disruption and board in Leylines, Surgicals, and Olivia.
My plan for Eldrazi Tron is to hedge on the hard removal spells and hope that they don't play more than three 5+ drops by T6. I have experience on both ends of this matchup and the Basilisk Collar combo is the biggest reason why I wanted a second Abrupt Decay. I haven't figured out the optimal sideboard, but surgical is definitely a part of it (permanently remove Endbringer or Walking Ballista). (OUT: 2x Huntmaster, 1x Scooze, 2x Bolt; IN: 2x Surgical, 1x Olivia, 2x Finks). Most of my matches against Eldrazi Tron are disadvantaged, but not a blowout.
A note on Olivia: she's AMAZING in midrange mirrors, especially if they involve Lingering Souls. She'll run away with the game if I untap with her. Lord help my opponent if I have 7 mana. I probably overvalue her.
The rest of the deck is fairly standard. I'll have to face Burn at least once (this IS Texas!), so I gave 2x Collective Brutality the nod over a Damnation/Kalitas package.
I would appreciate some constructive feedback. I own all of the Jund MB/SB options with the exception of EE and Blood Moon, which I could probably borrow from a friend.
I would rather cut an Abrupt Decay over a Lightning Bolt, but that's just me. I really don't think the Death's Shadow match is bad enough to warrant two Fatal Push in the main deck. Have you done any testing against it? Not to mention, if you're that concerned about Eldrazi/Tron that you're keeping in Abrupt Decay for such a narrow purpose, then cutting Damnation/Maelstrom Pulse/other hard removal really doesn't make any sense. You're making your fight against your expected metagame harder.
I agree with chaos021. I think you focus too much on the Death Shadow and Eldrazi matchup. Its true that those are fairly present and should be expected, but I wouldnt go all in on it. I would cut one Fatal Push, one Abrupt Decay (if you want the 4 Terminate for Death shadow and Eldrazi) and one Maelstrom Pulse for two bolts and a collective brutality for example. That way you can cut one CB from the SB and add damnation, which I would really play in that meta.
The reason behind this is that you already have a great dedication for Death Shadow in your SB so that you would loose more win % points to other matchups.
Concerning Ad Nauseam: In my experience we are no underdog. Disruption is key and LD alongside artifact hate can certainly be the factor which gives us game against Leyline. The matchup doesn't feel easy, but also not helpless to me.
Well maybe it's just our local Ad Nauseam guy. He has slowly adjusted his deck with random tech that makes the match a little less fun for me. Nephalia Academy is surprisingly annoying for instance, but a quick check online shows that no one else really plays it.
Well maybe it's just our local Ad Nauseam guy. He has slowly adjusted his deck with random tech that makes the match a little less fun for me. Nephalia Academy is surprisingly annoying for instance, but a quick check online shows that no one else really plays it.
This land seems like a good tech against us though, wandering why I never saw that in my opponents decklists.
Any inputs on the death shadow matchup? I want to update the sideboard guide for the newer versions of the deck and I am not sure yet what would be a good idea to board out. Options would include:
Discard
LtLH
CB
4-drops
KCommand
The rest is kinda needed in the MB I think (I also think Bolt is ok enough, which just provides reach if needed). What are general opinions?
A note on Olivia: she's AMAZING in midrange mirrors, especially if they involve Lingering Souls. She'll run away with the game if I untap with her. Lord help my opponent if I have 7 mana. I probably overvalue her.
It's hard to overvalue Olivia in scenarios where she shines. If you're playing against midrange and they have Souls on the board and you have 6+ mana open, of course she's gonna be insane. All other cases though...
That slot in your sideboard is just gonna come down to personal preference really. I've run Olivia, TMaw and Ishkanah in there. They're all very good against midrange and very useless against pretty much any other type of deck. Up to you if you wanna hedge your bets.
I used to run Ad Nauseam so it's kind of weird being on the other side. I would rather run Leyline of Sanctity mostly because the chance that I could open up with it on the draw, delay information on my hand for a bit and that I was never crazy about colorlesss lands. Dreadship Reef seemed like a cool utility slot but it always felt slow also. There are other utility lands that I would rather run like Tolaria West, etc.
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Modern URGifts StormUR URBlue MoonUR URKiln FiendUR
Any inputs on the death shadow matchup? I want to update the sideboard guide for the newer versions of the deck and I am not sure yet what would be a good idea to board out. Options would include:
Discard
LtLH
CB
4-drops
KCommand
The rest is kinda needed in the MB I think (I also think Bolt is ok enough, which just provides reach if needed). What are general opinions?
You pretty much have it. One note though: I tend to leave in Inquisition of Kozilek. I'm not sure this is correct, but it hasn't failed me so far. My reasoning is that it doesn't hurt me, I gain info on what they have and how I should play based on that and sometimes I just get to take an important piece of action (Traverse the Ulvenwald, Death's Shadow, Tarmogoyf). It's a terrible top deck for sure, which is why I thought I should bail on it, but I've often found the information useful.
I dislike having my 8x creatures plucked so I feel like discard is the way to go, just hope it doesn't start getting to a topdeck war without something good.
I'd probably shave 1 or 2 bolts, probably just 1 though.
If they're splashing white, keep in mind LOTV may not be the end all be all trump card.
K-Command will only serve to make them discard and bring a creature back
The removal suite after game 1 will have 4x Pushes, maybe 1x Decay, 3 to 4 Tarfires to kill Bob, 1x Lilly, the Last Hope for recursion and LOTV.
They're almost certainly going to side out temur battle rage so don't make any bad blocks postboard in fear of it
I'm traveling to SCG Dallas in a couple days and would appreciate some input on my Jund list. I'm aware that Jund isn't the wisest choice for the weekend, but I can either buy into Death's Shadow or buy MM cards. The latter won, so I will try to make the best of it. I've played Jund a year and a half, so I'm comfortable with the deck/decisions/sideboarding.
The first thing you probably noticed was the slaughter of a sacred cow: 2x Bolt. Why? Bolt is too soft a removal spell right now. I'd rather have a Terminate or Maelstrom Pulse if I'm facing down a 5/5 Death's Shadow or an Endbringer. Overall, I want 2x Fatal Push, the 2nd Pulse, and the 4th Terminate as a Hedge against Death's Shadow and Eldrazi Tron.
The Leylines in the board are specifically for Death's Shadow. A friend of mine has been grinding the deck for a few weeks and struggles the most with exile-based removal while, at the same time, grinding through 1:1 kill spells (he won a match last week through 7(!) removal spells). Jund is lacking in the exile department, so I'll be much happier to see Leyline in my opening hand than Spellbomb. Odds are good that they have T1 disruption, so getting a "free" spell and permanently turning off delirium, Kommand, Liliana the Last Hope, AND part 2 of Lingering Souls seems too good to pass up. My experience in the matchup is lacking (playtesting later in the week), but I'm assuming that I'll board out disruption and board in Leylines, Surgicals, and Olivia.
My plan for Eldrazi Tron is to hedge on the hard removal spells and hope that they don't play more than three 5+ drops by T6. I have experience on both ends of this matchup and the Basilisk Collar combo is the biggest reason why I wanted a second Abrupt Decay. I haven't figured out the optimal sideboard, but surgical is definitely a part of it (permanently remove Endbringer or Walking Ballista). (OUT: 2x Huntmaster, 1x Scooze, 2x Bolt; IN: 2x Surgical, 1x Olivia, 2x Finks). Most of my matches against Eldrazi Tron are disadvantaged, but not a blowout.
A note on Olivia: she's AMAZING in midrange mirrors, especially if they involve Lingering Souls. She'll run away with the game if I untap with her. Lord help my opponent if I have 7 mana. I probably overvalue her.
The rest of the deck is fairly standard. I'll have to face Burn at least once (this IS Texas!), so I gave 2x Collective Brutality the nod over a Damnation/Kalitas package.
I would appreciate some constructive feedback. I own all of the Jund MB/SB options with the exception of EE and Blood Moon, which I could probably borrow from a friend.
Don't show up to a big event if you haven't played hundreds of reps with that deck, you're asking to go home very early. Stick with what you know.
I think you're worrying far too much about Death Shadow, it's about a 50/50 matchup
It's true that this is the worst bolt has been in a very long time in modern, but it's still bolt.
You pretty much have it. One note though: I tend to leave in Inquisition of Kozilek. I'm not sure this is correct, but it hasn't failed me so far. My reasoning is that it doesn't hurt me, I gain info on what they have and how I should play based on that and sometimes I just get to take an important piece of action (Traverse the Ulvenwald, Death's Shadow, Tarmogoyf). It's a terrible top deck for sure, which is why I thought I should bail on it, but I've often found the information useful.
I see your point, I guess due to this cutting Thoughtseize and keeping Inquisition seems like a good idea, like you stated. In regards to discard we would treat it kinda like we do with Affinity.
I dislike having my 8x creatures plucked so I feel like discard is the way to go, just hope it doesn't start getting to a topdeck war without something good.
I agree, but due to the topdeck issue, I kinda like the way chaos021 is approaching things by cutting TS and keeping IOK.
If they're splashing white, keep in mind LOTV may not be the end all be all trump card.
Lingering Souls is certainly a card which makes it awkward in which way to sideboard. Generally, the new Lili is what I would want to cut, but having a resilient answer to Souls postboard seems also reasonable to me.
Don't show up to a big event if you haven't played hundreds of reps with that deck, you're asking to go home very early. Stick with what you know.
Oh I know. I've played at least 200 matches with Jund the last 1.5 years. I almost bought into Death's Shadow a couple weeks ago, but I decided on MM instead, which turned out to be a good decision a couple of hours into spoilers!
It's true that this is the worst bolt has been in a very long time in modern, but it's still bolt.
Agreed. Over half of my matches in the last couple weeks (12) have been against Tron and Eldrazi Tron, so Bolt has been very anemic. At the very least, the flexibility to decrease the "virtual life" of my opponent can't be understated, so I'll trim a decay and a fatal push to get the bolts back in. I'm also uncomfortable with 1x Kommand since it has such wide appeal, so swapping the second pulse for the second Kommand seems prudent (I'm still keeping 4x Terminate to compensate for all the big creatures running around).
I think you're worrying far too much about Death Shadow, it's about a 50/50 matchup
I probably am. There aren't many local converts to the deck, so my practice against the deck is limited (I'm going to proxy it and play myself tomorrow to get a better feel for it). It's very popular online and has made good showings at opens and GP's, so I expect to see it well-represented. Do you think the Leylines are too much, or am I better off with Damnation + 2 other cards? The board wipe is pretty good most of the time, so one of the other cards would be that Fatal Push with a flex spot for something like Kalitas or Anger.
Jumping in on the thread a little late but has anyone tried tireless tracker over hunt master or Kalitas?? I'm running three currently and he has been beyond OP. In the late game he is a great card drawing engine and gets out of hand easily if you can stick one fetch land with him on board. I always felt myself struggling in the mid to late game top decking more quickly than I would like. After I added tireless tracker I can easily find myself with 4-7 cards in hand and a 7/6 on board against my opponent fighting to top deck.
Agreed. Over half of my matches in the last couple weeks (12) have been against Tron and Eldrazi Tron, so Bolt has been very anemic. At the very least, the flexibility to decrease the "virtual life" of my opponent can't be understated, so I'll trim a decay and a fatal push to get the bolts back in. I'm also uncomfortable with 1x Kommand since it has such wide appeal, so swapping the second pulse for the second Kommand seems prudent (I'm still keeping 4x Terminate to compensate for all the big creatures running around).
I think this looks like a good plan, I would do it!
I probably am. There aren't many local converts to the deck, so my practice against the deck is limited (I'm going to proxy it and play myself tomorrow to get a better feel for it). It's very popular online and has made good showings at opens and GP's, so I expect to see it well-represented. Do you think the Leylines are too much, or am I better off with Damnation + 2 other cards? The board wipe is pretty good most of the time, so one of the other cards would be that Fatal Push with a flex spot for something like Kalitas or Anger.
I think Leylines are not at its best right now, but has certainly applications for the death shadow matchup. Its hard to tell if they are too much. I feel like your GY hate dedication is a bit heavy since you also have surgicals in your list, for which reason you might wanna just shave them. Fulminator plus surgical and damnation could be fine enough for death shadow.
Jumping in on the thread a little late but has anyone tried tireless tracker over hunt master or Kalitas?? I'm running three currently and he has been beyond OP. In the late game he is a great card drawing engine and gets out of hand easily if you can stick one fetch land with him on board. I always felt myself struggling in the mid to late game top decking more quickly than I would like. After I added tireless tracker I can easily find myself with 4-7 cards in hand and a 7/6 on board against my opponent fighting to top deck.
Tracker did not see major play, and also nobody is testing tracker right now. I think its is a bit underwhelming right now, since we now don't want games to go longer, as big mana and eldrazi would just wreck us. The thing is, he is a virtual 4 drop anyway, since you don't just want to cast him on turn 3 without getting guaranteed value. The other 4-drops we have are just more flexible.
Unless you're expecting nothing but Dredge, Shadow and Grixis, I recommend not having the leylines. Surgical Extraction is a blowout against Death Shadow, dude. If you extract Shadow itself, that's 4 threats they have left in the deck. Most decks play 3x Lingering Souls, you could hit that. I'd probably hit Goyf last
Focus on beating Eldrazi decks, they're going to be preying on Jund. There's going to be Junk deck out there too, preying on Shadow and other fair decks. Try to shore your matchup against Junk and Eldrazi if you can, and accept that if you see something like Tron or Titanshift that you're boned.
Why are some recent lists running 4-5 planeswalkers? I know 4 x LotV or 3 x LotV - 1 x Liliana Last Hope seems pretty standard especially lately. But I've seen 4 x LotV and 1 x Sorin, Solemn Visitor maindeck for Junk along with 3 x LotV and 2 x Last Hope.
I'm traveling to SCG Dallas in a couple days and would appreciate some input on my Jund list. I'm aware that Jund isn't the wisest choice for the weekend, but I can either buy into Death's Shadow or buy MM cards. The latter won, so I will try to make the best of it. I've played Jund a year and a half, so I'm comfortable with the deck/decisions/sideboarding.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Fatal Push
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Terminate
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Kolaghan's Command
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Stomping Ground
1 Twilight Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Raging Ravine
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Collective Brutality
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Olivia Voldaren
2 Kitchen Finks
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Surgical Extraction
The first thing you probably noticed was the slaughter of a sacred cow: 2x Bolt. Why? Bolt is too soft a removal spell right now. I'd rather have a Terminate or Maelstrom Pulse if I'm facing down a 5/5 Death's Shadow or an Endbringer. Overall, I want 2x Fatal Push, the 2nd Pulse, and the 4th Terminate as a Hedge against Death's Shadow and Eldrazi Tron.
The Leylines in the board are specifically for Death's Shadow. A friend of mine has been grinding the deck for a few weeks and struggles the most with exile-based removal while, at the same time, grinding through 1:1 kill spells (he won a match last week through 7(!) removal spells). Jund is lacking in the exile department, so I'll be much happier to see Leyline in my opening hand than Spellbomb. Odds are good that they have T1 disruption, so getting a "free" spell and permanently turning off delirium, Kommand, Liliana the Last Hope, AND part 2 of Lingering Souls seems too good to pass up. My experience in the matchup is lacking (playtesting later in the week), but I'm assuming that I'll board out disruption and board in Leylines, Surgicals, and Olivia.
My plan for Eldrazi Tron is to hedge on the hard removal spells and hope that they don't play more than three 5+ drops by T6. I have experience on both ends of this matchup and the Basilisk Collar combo is the biggest reason why I wanted a second Abrupt Decay. I haven't figured out the optimal sideboard, but surgical is definitely a part of it (permanently remove Endbringer or Walking Ballista). (OUT: 2x Huntmaster, 1x Scooze, 2x Bolt; IN: 2x Surgical, 1x Olivia, 2x Finks). Most of my matches against Eldrazi Tron are disadvantaged, but not a blowout.
A note on Olivia: she's AMAZING in midrange mirrors, especially if they involve Lingering Souls. She'll run away with the game if I untap with her. Lord help my opponent if I have 7 mana. I probably overvalue her.
The rest of the deck is fairly standard. I'll have to face Burn at least once (this IS Texas!), so I gave 2x Collective Brutality the nod over a Damnation/Kalitas package.
I would appreciate some constructive feedback. I own all of the Jund MB/SB options with the exception of EE and Blood Moon, which I could probably borrow from a friend.
The reason behind this is that you already have a great dedication for Death Shadow in your SB so that you would loose more win % points to other matchups.
Concerning Ad Nauseam: In my experience we are no underdog. Disruption is key and LD alongside artifact hate can certainly be the factor which gives us game against Leyline. The matchup doesn't feel easy, but also not helpless to me.
This land seems like a good tech against us though, wandering why I never saw that in my opponents decklists.
The rest is kinda needed in the MB I think (I also think Bolt is ok enough, which just provides reach if needed). What are general opinions?
It's hard to overvalue Olivia in scenarios where she shines. If you're playing against midrange and they have Souls on the board and you have 6+ mana open, of course she's gonna be insane. All other cases though...
That slot in your sideboard is just gonna come down to personal preference really. I've run Olivia, TMaw and Ishkanah in there. They're all very good against midrange and very useless against pretty much any other type of deck. Up to you if you wanna hedge your bets.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
URGifts StormUR
URBlue MoonUR
URKiln FiendUR
BURStormBUR
You pretty much have it. One note though: I tend to leave in Inquisition of Kozilek. I'm not sure this is correct, but it hasn't failed me so far. My reasoning is that it doesn't hurt me, I gain info on what they have and how I should play based on that and sometimes I just get to take an important piece of action (Traverse the Ulvenwald, Death's Shadow, Tarmogoyf). It's a terrible top deck for sure, which is why I thought I should bail on it, but I've often found the information useful.
I'd probably shave 1 or 2 bolts, probably just 1 though.
If they're splashing white, keep in mind LOTV may not be the end all be all trump card.
K-Command will only serve to make them discard and bring a creature back
The removal suite after game 1 will have 4x Pushes, maybe 1x Decay, 3 to 4 Tarfires to kill Bob, 1x Lilly, the Last Hope for recursion and LOTV.
They're almost certainly going to side out temur battle rage so don't make any bad blocks postboard in fear of it
Don't show up to a big event if you haven't played hundreds of reps with that deck, you're asking to go home very early. Stick with what you know.
I think you're worrying far too much about Death Shadow, it's about a 50/50 matchup
It's true that this is the worst bolt has been in a very long time in modern, but it's still bolt.
I see your point, I guess due to this cutting Thoughtseize and keeping Inquisition seems like a good idea, like you stated. In regards to discard we would treat it kinda like we do with Affinity.
I agree, but due to the topdeck issue, I kinda like the way chaos021 is approaching things by cutting TS and keeping IOK.
Lingering Souls is certainly a card which makes it awkward in which way to sideboard. Generally, the new Lili is what I would want to cut, but having a resilient answer to Souls postboard seems also reasonable to me.
Oh I know. I've played at least 200 matches with Jund the last 1.5 years. I almost bought into Death's Shadow a couple weeks ago, but I decided on MM instead, which turned out to be a good decision a couple of hours into spoilers!
Agreed. Over half of my matches in the last couple weeks (12) have been against Tron and Eldrazi Tron, so Bolt has been very anemic. At the very least, the flexibility to decrease the "virtual life" of my opponent can't be understated, so I'll trim a decay and a fatal push to get the bolts back in. I'm also uncomfortable with 1x Kommand since it has such wide appeal, so swapping the second pulse for the second Kommand seems prudent (I'm still keeping 4x Terminate to compensate for all the big creatures running around).
I probably am. There aren't many local converts to the deck, so my practice against the deck is limited (I'm going to proxy it and play myself tomorrow to get a better feel for it). It's very popular online and has made good showings at opens and GP's, so I expect to see it well-represented. Do you think the Leylines are too much, or am I better off with Damnation + 2 other cards? The board wipe is pretty good most of the time, so one of the other cards would be that Fatal Push with a flex spot for something like Kalitas or Anger.
I think this looks like a good plan, I would do it!
I think Leylines are not at its best right now, but has certainly applications for the death shadow matchup. Its hard to tell if they are too much. I feel like your GY hate dedication is a bit heavy since you also have surgicals in your list, for which reason you might wanna just shave them. Fulminator plus surgical and damnation could be fine enough for death shadow.
Tracker did not see major play, and also nobody is testing tracker right now. I think its is a bit underwhelming right now, since we now don't want games to go longer, as big mana and eldrazi would just wreck us. The thing is, he is a virtual 4 drop anyway, since you don't just want to cast him on turn 3 without getting guaranteed value. The other 4-drops we have are just more flexible.
Focus on beating Eldrazi decks, they're going to be preying on Jund. There's going to be Junk deck out there too, preying on Shadow and other fair decks. Try to shore your matchup against Junk and Eldrazi if you can, and accept that if you see something like Tron or Titanshift that you're boned.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
URGifts StormUR
URBlue MoonUR
URKiln FiendUR
BURStormBUR
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki