I tried 3x Thorns today, you can see the sideboard attached. went 4-1. Thorns were very good vs Ponza and Burn. No combo was seen that day. Loss to Mirror match, 1-2: they drew perfectly game 2 and just barely better game 3.
Closing the league with an incredible match vs Ponza (Screenshot).
ATTACHMENTS
ponzaa
new board
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In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
Updated list. I've now cut the 3rd Wastes for 1 Sanctum of Ugin. Sanctum looks a whole lot better with 4 Walking Ballistas since you can cast them for x=4 or more and trigger Sanctum. Down one Batterskull because I had to cut something lol:
Thoughts about 4 Warping Wail in the 75? Seems like it's needed to make Valakut a less terrible matchup.
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"I see apocalypse. Apocalypse of not only this world but every world. I see the very end of creation heralded on black wings. Light will fall, and He shall rise.
Getting better at playing this deck but any tips for playing against Mill? I just got my arse kicked!
What kind of Mill? UB Mill?
You can be a rebel like me and run 2 or 3 Conduit of Ruin to tutor up Ulamog and mill them faster than they do you.
More realistically you could run a full 4 Warping Wail and 4 Spatial Contortion in your 75 to deal with the sorceries and Hedron Crab. How much of your meta is Mill? If its one deck of dozens it might not be worth warping your sideboard for it.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Having a copy Emrakul or old Kozilek/Ulamog should be enough against Mill unless you happen to draw it as it shuffles back the GY.
If you are really worried about this matchup there is Elixir of Immortality but you are not guaranteed to draw it of course.
Never played against Mill with Eldrazi Tron but did play against it when I once played Bant Eldrazi and I also got destroyed pretty badly. Warping Wail should counter most of the mill spells? Thorn of Amethyst/Witchbane Orb could also be an option
Maybe I've got to to more Warping Wail in my main.
I would have used Chalice but I didn't draw it either game.
Getting better at playing this deck but any tips for playing against Mill? I just got my arse kicked!
What kind of Mill? UB Mill?
You can be a rebel like me and run 2 or 3 Conduit of Ruin to tutor up Ulamog and mill them faster than they do you.
More realistically you could run a full 4 Warping Wail and 4 Spatial Contortion in your 75 to deal with the sorceries and Hedron Crab. How much of your meta is Mill? If its one deck of dozens it might not be worth warping your sideboard for it.
UB Mill, this was an online game - I'm just getting more seat time with the deck. I haven't run across mill in my meta yet.
Ad Nausium is an issue in my meta lol
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Modern BUWAd NauseamBUW-CRAffinityCR-GWBCounters CompanyGWB-BRGDredgeBRG-CWEldrazi and TaxesCW-CEldrazi TronC-BRGJund ShiftBRG-BRGJundBRG-CLantern ControlC-UTronU-RWGNaya BurnRWG-RUStormRU-UTaking TurnsU
Legacy CEldraziC
Commander - EDH RBMizzix of the IzmagnusRB-UBRNekusar, the MindrazerUBR
UB Mill works like a burn deck, in the sense that there is a constant clock, but generally 1/2 turn/s slower to close the game. Unlike Burn, lifegain does nothing, and keeping up blockers neither; this leads to no stalemate. So early pressure + Disruption is key to win the match. G1 your best cards are Warping Wail countering key spells like Breaking // Entering, Glimpse the Unthinkable and Mind Funeral, then a Chalice on 2 should stop most of their 'threats'. The best cards in the MU are TKSs and Smashers, as they apply fast pressure and can close the game before it's too late. If you don't get good mana you are likely losing the game, so it's pretty rough. Cards like Thorn of Amethyst, Chalice of the Void and Warping Wail are pretty good, although Chalice conflicts with setting it on 2, which is the best number. Cards Like Endbringer, All is Dust, Dismember, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Batterskull are lacklusters. A T4 dream turn is to drop a Kozilek, the Great Distortion, draw 3+ and keep up cards to counter 1/2 spells, but it's a dream scenario which doesn't come up almost any time.
UB Mill is barely played on MTGO and almost unseen in paper, so it shouldn't be a concern.
EDIT: A pretty interesting alternative to Thorn of Amethyst is Trinisphere. It feels great vs a number of decks:
Valakut: Pact, suspended search for tomorrow, Farseek, Expedition and Explore costing 3 should slow the deck down a lot. Especially TTB version, making the combo cost 8. Same for their artifact hate will cost 3 now, so no T2 EoT Grudge or T4 pact for Rec Sage. This allows to keep Chalice alive for CMC 2 without conflicting. Not a game changer vs Thorn, but could be better.
Ad Nauseam: Spoils, Cantrips, Pacts, Grace, Bloom costing 3 seems very good at slowing them down. Giving a potential extra counter on Pentad Prism doesn't feel so appealing though.
Burn: A powerhouse, it slows them down dramatically.
Control: Same as burn, it prevents their mana efficiency from tempoing us out of the game.
Lantern: Same as burn, a powerhouse to slow them down and keep cards in hand to make their bridges not so scary.
Storm: Extreme value.
Cheeri0s: It's an already easy MU, but it outright destroys it.
Delver: Insane. Unless they naturally draw 3 lands and the Kommand (if grixis). Can be still hosed by TKS while kept away from developing.
The good thing about it is that is very punishing for tempo decks and combo decks in general.
The bad thing about it is that it doesn't work well in multiples and it's not something you would want more than 1x in the board for this very reason. It doesn't work well with Thorn either, so it can be weird.
All in all, a card to look out for in C options.
UB Mill works like a burn deck, in the sense that there is a constant clock, but generally 1/2 turn/s slower to close the game. Unlike Burn, lifegain does nothing, and keeping up blockers neither; this leads to no stalemate. So early pressure + Disruption is key to win the match. G1 your best cards are Warping Wail countering key spells like Breaking // Entering, Glimpse the Unthinkable and Mind Funeral, then a Chalice on 2 should stop most of their 'threats'. The best cards in the MU are TKSs and Smashers, as they apply fast pressure and can close the game before it's too late. If you don't get good mana you are likely losing the game, so it's pretty rough. Cards like Thorn of Amethyst, Chalice of the Void and Warping Wail are pretty good, although Chalice conflicts with setting it on 2, which is the best number. Cards Like Endbringer, All is Dust, Dismember, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Batterskull are lacklusters. A T4 dream turn is to drop a Kozilek, the Great Distortion, draw 3+ and keep up cards to counter 1/2 spells, but it's a dream scenario which doesn't come up almost any time.
UB Mill is barely played on MTGO and almost unseen in paper, so it shouldn't be a concern.
EDIT: A pretty interesting alternative to Thorn of Amethyst is Trinisphere. It feels great vs a number of decks:
Valakut: Pact, suspended search for tomorrow, Farseek, Expedition and Explore costing 3 should slow the deck down a lot. Especially TTB version, making the combo cost 8. Same for their artifact hate will cost 3 now, so no T2 EoT Grudge or T4 pact for Rec Sage. This allows to keep Chalice alive for CMC 2 without conflicting. Not a game changer vs Thorn, but could be better.
Ad Nauseam: Spoils, Cantrips, Pacts, Grace, Bloom costing 3 seems very good at slowing them down. Giving a potential extra counter on Pentad Prism doesn't feel so appealing though.
Burn: A powerhouse, it slows them down dramatically.
Control: Same as burn, it prevents their mana efficiency from tempoing us out of the game.
Lantern: Same as burn, a powerhouse to slow them down and keep cards in hand to make their bridges not so scary.
Storm: Extreme value.
Cheeri0s: It's an already easy MU, but it outright destroys it.
Delver: Insane. Unless they naturally draw 3 lands and the Kommand (if grixis). Can be still hosed by TKS while kept away from developing.
The good thing about it is that is very punishing for tempo decks and combo decks in general.
The bad thing about it is that it doesn't work well in multiples and it's not something you would want more than 1x in the board for this very reason. It doesn't work well with Thorn either, so it can be weird.
All in all, a card to look out for in C options.
i realy like Trinisphere but sadly its very difficult choice to drop on turn 3.
i have a similar argument when it comes to playing matter reshaper or chalice of the void on turn 2.
the deck can be hard to pilot at times as the choices are pretty limited.
im going top pick up 2 for the sideboard but again wtf do i take out!!! strong deck but with no flex spots
What to take out comes down to what card is bad or worse than it in postboard games. I'm 99.99% sure if you're siding 3Sphere and you have the option to drop anything else ask yourself 'why did I bring this card?'. If the answer is 'because it wrecks my opponent', just play it. If not, maybe you shouldn't have sided it at all.
Chalice vs Reshaper or even TKS can be tough if you haven't figured out the opposing deck, so if you have the nut double Temple on T2 I'd go for TKS, otherwise Reshaper. Maybe chalice is not even good in the MU and you don't know it yet. If you know chalice on 1 hurts them just drop it, at its worst you'll be timewalking them forcing to be dealt with it and you have 1 more land-drop to make a more significant play, or to just drop the reshaper with a backup dismember. I don't know, it's mostly contextual.
Practice makes perfect, so just keep on playing and making mistakes; the more you do it, the more you will learn.
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In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
I'd say most of the time, just drop the Chalice on 1 - if you dont have another T2 play. It hinders a lot of decks.
If you can either play Chalice or TKS turn 2, just do the TKS first, so you exactly know what you are dealing with.
just my 2cents
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The great Eldrazi Overlords will return to the Modern World.
Take a look at the top played spells in Modern. A large chunk are one mana spells. Setting Chalice to one during Game one may not be the best play versus every deck, but it is going to catch all those 1 cmc spells that permeate the meta. Play 4 Chalice main.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Would a 1 cmc Path not be countered by Chalice with Trinisphere out?
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere in the past pages, but why do I tend to see Batterskull in these lists and not Wurmcoil Engine? Is it due to the increased likelihood you'll have a creature to equip Batterskull to it, reducing the blowout potential of them pathing your Wurmcoil?
It is probably due to the lower casting cost of 5 vs. 6 which can be significant since the deck can't hit Tron as consistently as other Tron decks can.
Being better against PtE is also a big upside.
I'm personally running Wurmcoil Engine because it is much cheaper online (3-4 tix) and I don't think that Batterskull is worth the price premium (35 tix).
UB Mill works like a burn deck, in the sense that there is a constant clock, but generally 1/2 turn/s slower to close the game. Unlike Burn, lifegain does nothing, and keeping up blockers neither; this leads to no stalemate. So early pressure + Disruption is key to win the match. G1 your best cards are Warping Wail countering key spells like Breaking // Entering, Glimpse the Unthinkable and Mind Funeral, then a Chalice on 2 should stop most of their 'threats'. The best cards in the MU are TKSs and Smashers, as they apply fast pressure and can close the game before it's too late. If you don't get good mana you are likely losing the game, so it's pretty rough. Cards like Thorn of Amethyst, Chalice of the Void and Warping Wail are pretty good, although Chalice conflicts with setting it on 2, which is the best number. Cards Like Endbringer, All is Dust, Dismember, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Batterskull are lacklusters. A T4 dream turn is to drop a Kozilek, the Great Distortion, draw 3+ and keep up cards to counter 1/2 spells, but it's a dream scenario which doesn't come up almost any time.
UB Mill is barely played on MTGO and almost unseen in paper, so it shouldn't be a concern.
EDIT: A pretty interesting alternative to Thorn of Amethyst is Trinisphere. It feels great vs a number of decks:
Valakut: Pact, suspended search for tomorrow, Farseek, Expedition and Explore costing 3 should slow the deck down a lot. Especially TTB version, making the combo cost 8. Same for their artifact hate will cost 3 now, so no T2 EoT Grudge or T4 pact for Rec Sage. This allows to keep Chalice alive for CMC 2 without conflicting. Not a game changer vs Thorn, but could be better.
Ad Nauseam: Spoils, Cantrips, Pacts, Grace, Bloom costing 3 seems very good at slowing them down. Giving a potential extra counter on Pentad Prism doesn't feel so appealing though.
Burn: A powerhouse, it slows them down dramatically.
Control: Same as burn, it prevents their mana efficiency from tempoing us out of the game.
Lantern: Same as burn, a powerhouse to slow them down and keep cards in hand to make their bridges not so scary.
Storm: Extreme value.
Cheeri0s: It's an already easy MU, but it outright destroys it.
Delver: Insane. Unless they naturally draw 3 lands and the Kommand (if grixis). Can be still hosed by TKS while kept away from developing.
The good thing about it is that is very punishing for tempo decks and combo decks in general.
The bad thing about it is that it doesn't work well in multiples and it's not something you would want more than 1x in the board for this very reason. It doesn't work well with Thorn either, so it can be weird.
All in all, a card to look out for in C options.
I'm not sure what mill deck this was, I was playing online (Xmage as I'm not too happy about having to rebuy cards on MTGO, this hobby is expensive enough as is without having to buy cards twice!) and I'm not 100% sure on all the decks yet.
I'll admit I had some crappy draws mana wise and never came across a single Chalice! Mind you I'm only running 2 and not a full play set (I didn't have money for 2 lol).
Trinisphere seems cool but I'm not sure where to fit them in my deck (66 cards - got 3 conduit of ruin, 4 Karns and 2 Ugins but I find all of those so useful!)
I'll be playing the green splash version of this tomorrow at my LGS, I'll post up how it does. I'm waiting on cards to go completely colourless.
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Play All The Decks!
Modern BUWAd NauseamBUW-CRAffinityCR-GWBCounters CompanyGWB-BRGDredgeBRG-CWEldrazi and TaxesCW-CEldrazi TronC-BRGJund ShiftBRG-BRGJundBRG-CLantern ControlC-UTronU-RWGNaya BurnRWG-RUStormRU-UTaking TurnsU
Legacy CEldraziC
Commander - EDH RBMizzix of the IzmagnusRB-UBRNekusar, the MindrazerUBR
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
"Chalice of the Void is the most overrated card in the deck. This doesn't mean that it's bad, but people tend to remember the times that it completely shuts opponents out of the game over the times when you draw three that don't do anything…"
Todd Stevens
I absolutely disagree with that statement. He will find the error of his ways when he gets blown out by fast aggro decks running heaps of 1 cmc spells. I like the guy but in my opinion he is dead wrong.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
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Closing the league with an incredible match vs Ponza (Screenshot).
Thoughts about 4 Warping Wail in the 75? Seems like it's needed to make Valakut a less terrible matchup.
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Endbringer
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Chalice of the Void
4 Expedition Map
3 Warping Wail
3 Dismember
2 Batterskull
1 All Is Dust
4 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Sanctum of Ugin
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Wastes
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Warping Wail
3 Spatial Contortion
2 Oblivion Stone
1 All Is Dust
BUWAd NauseamBUW-CRAffinityCR-GWBCounters CompanyGWB-BRGDredgeBRG-CWEldrazi and TaxesCW-CEldrazi TronC-BRGJund ShiftBRG-BRGJundBRG-CLantern ControlC-UTronU-RWGNaya BurnRWG-RUStormRU-UTaking TurnsU
CEldraziC
RBMizzix of the IzmagnusRB-UBRNekusar, the MindrazerUBR
What kind of Mill? UB Mill?
You can be a rebel like me and run 2 or 3 Conduit of Ruin to tutor up Ulamog and mill them faster than they do you.
More realistically you could run a full 4 Warping Wail and 4 Spatial Contortion in your 75 to deal with the sorceries and Hedron Crab. How much of your meta is Mill? If its one deck of dozens it might not be worth warping your sideboard for it.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
If you are really worried about this matchup there is Elixir of Immortality but you are not guaranteed to draw it of course.
UB Mill, this was an online game - I'm just getting more seat time with the deck. I haven't run across mill in my meta yet.
Ad Nausium is an issue in my meta lol
BUWAd NauseamBUW-CRAffinityCR-GWBCounters CompanyGWB-BRGDredgeBRG-CWEldrazi and TaxesCW-CEldrazi TronC-BRGJund ShiftBRG-BRGJundBRG-CLantern ControlC-UTronU-RWGNaya BurnRWG-RUStormRU-UTaking TurnsU
CEldraziC
RBMizzix of the IzmagnusRB-UBRNekusar, the MindrazerUBR
UB Mill is barely played on MTGO and almost unseen in paper, so it shouldn't be a concern.
EDIT: A pretty interesting alternative to Thorn of Amethyst is Trinisphere. It feels great vs a number of decks:
The good thing about it is that is very punishing for tempo decks and combo decks in general.
The bad thing about it is that it doesn't work well in multiples and it's not something you would want more than 1x in the board for this very reason. It doesn't work well with Thorn either, so it can be weird.
All in all, a card to look out for in C options.
What to take out comes down to what card is bad or worse than it in postboard games. I'm 99.99% sure if you're siding 3Sphere and you have the option to drop anything else ask yourself 'why did I bring this card?'. If the answer is 'because it wrecks my opponent', just play it. If not, maybe you shouldn't have sided it at all.
Chalice vs Reshaper or even TKS can be tough if you haven't figured out the opposing deck, so if you have the nut double Temple on T2 I'd go for TKS, otherwise Reshaper. Maybe chalice is not even good in the MU and you don't know it yet. If you know chalice on 1 hurts them just drop it, at its worst you'll be timewalking them forcing to be dealt with it and you have 1 more land-drop to make a more significant play, or to just drop the reshaper with a backup dismember. I don't know, it's mostly contextual.
Practice makes perfect, so just keep on playing and making mistakes; the more you do it, the more you will learn.
If you can either play Chalice or TKS turn 2, just do the TKS first, so you exactly know what you are dealing with.
just my 2cents
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Would a 1 cmc Path not be countered by Chalice with Trinisphere out?
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Being better against PtE is also a big upside.
I'm personally running Wurmcoil Engine because it is much cheaper online (3-4 tix) and I don't think that Batterskull is worth the price premium (35 tix).
I'm not sure what mill deck this was, I was playing online (Xmage as I'm not too happy about having to rebuy cards on MTGO, this hobby is expensive enough as is without having to buy cards twice!) and I'm not 100% sure on all the decks yet.
I'll admit I had some crappy draws mana wise and never came across a single Chalice! Mind you I'm only running 2 and not a full play set (I didn't have money for 2 lol).
Trinisphere seems cool but I'm not sure where to fit them in my deck (66 cards - got 3 conduit of ruin, 4 Karns and 2 Ugins but I find all of those so useful!)
I'll be playing the green splash version of this tomorrow at my LGS, I'll post up how it does. I'm waiting on cards to go completely colourless.
BUWAd NauseamBUW-CRAffinityCR-GWBCounters CompanyGWB-BRGDredgeBRG-CWEldrazi and TaxesCW-CEldrazi TronC-BRGJund ShiftBRG-BRGJundBRG-CLantern ControlC-UTronU-RWGNaya BurnRWG-RUStormRU-UTaking TurnsU
CEldraziC
RBMizzix of the IzmagnusRB-UBRNekusar, the MindrazerUBR
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/34559_The-Best-8-Decks-In-Modern.html
Walking Ballista as a 4 MB with 2 Basilisk Collar. We knew it but it still is interesting.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
"Chalice of the Void is the most overrated card in the deck. This doesn't mean that it's bad, but people tend to remember the times that it completely shuts opponents out of the game over the times when you draw three that don't do anything…"
Todd Stevens
RG Titan Scapeshift GR
UBWAd Nauseam WBU
CEldrazi TronC
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."