Thought-Knot Seer proved as a viable option in my limited testing with Eldritch Evolution back when it was spoiled. People simply weren't expecting an Eldrazi from an Elves deck.
12 potential sources of for Shaman along with 10 sources of for TKS should be enough. 29 Elves for Gilt-Leaf Palace and 30 3cmc creatures for Collected Company. Possibly switch Chord for Evolution? But I like being able to EOT Chord or CoCo, so maybe keep it as is. I might have to give this a try...
I don't believe it's practical to jam TKs into Shaman lists simply because any more than 16-18x 3-4cmc spells will skew the curve. The UG list is plausible because it falls within this curve parameter.
That being said, I do like this idea of TKs being thrown in. The card is a powerhouse across the meta and is miles better than Sculler or Maggot.
I don't believe it's practical to jam TKs into Shaman lists simply because any more than 16-18x 3-4cmc spells will skew the curve. The UG list is plausible because it falls within this curve parameter.
That being said, I do like this idea of TKs being thrown in. The card is a powerhouse across the meta and is miles better than Sculler or Maggot.
That makes sense. I wasn't really thinking about the curve with all of the available mana producing creatures in the deck. But you're probably right. I might give it a run just to see what happens at my local shop. I could go -2 Visionary / +1 Sentinel and +1 Land. It would be weird to have no Visionaries in the deck, but that would drop the curve ever so slightly while upping the land to 19. Can't hurt to just run it out there for a casual Modern night and see what happens.
9 <>, 9 b sources for Thoughtseize, 13 b sources for Shaman.
This is the absolute maximum the manabase can take.
There is also potential for a g/<> list where you take the above and:
-4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
-1 Blooming Marsh
-4 Shaman of the Pack
-1 Eternal Witness
+4 Painland (Yavimaya Coast, Karplusan Forest, Brushland - an ideal would be a 2/2/2/2 split, all either foil old border or foil w/ colourless diamond symbol)
+1 Forest
+4 Matter Reshaper
+1 Ezuri (required to have 3 in mono green/gw imo, sorry Witness)
A GW version is also on the cards if you do the following:
-4 Llanowar Wastes
-4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
-1 Blooming Marsh
-4 Shaman of the Pack
-1 Eternal Witness
+4 Brushland
+3 Razorverge Thicket
+2 Horizon Canopy
+4 Eldrazi Displacer
+1 Ezuri/Mirror Entity
Plenty of options for starting our very own Eldrazi Winter.
Let me know how it is maindecking TKS if you guys try it. I will bring a list with TKS in the sideboard for now. Who knows, maybe it is maindeck-able?
I linked the top 8 list for the tournament that I got fourth place in. Unusual top 8, actually, so it may be a good case study for those who might travel here in the future.
Let me know how it is maindecking TKS if you guys try it. I will bring a list with TKS in the sideboard for now. Who knows, maybe it is maindeck-able?
I linked the top 8 list for the tournament that I got fourth place in. Unusual top 8, actually, so it may be a good case study for those who might travel here in the future.
Excited for all these ideas guys!
I'm playing a quick game with the GBc list (will finish a league with it at some point tomorrow) - the guy Cliqued me and saw double TKS, Eternal Witness after seeing two Archdruids, Mystic and Nettle. He tanked for quite a while before picking the Witness. It definitely has the shock and awe factor going for it, at least.
Round 1 vs Eldrazi Tron (2-1)
G1 I had a fast Archdruid draw and his turn 3 Endbringer didn't stop me. (W)
G2 He has natural tron on the play and my slower draw can't beat Ballista on 3 into Endbringer. (L)
G3 I have a crazy Heritage Druid + double Elite draw and he dies to a horde of smallish green dudes. (W)
Round 2 vs Eldrazi Tron (0-2)
Not much to say about this match; he had turn 3 tron into All is Dust both games and I had basically no recourse. (L,L)
Round 3 vs GW Tron (2-1)
G1: Him winning the die roll was what got it. I spend turn 3 setting up for a lethal Ezuri turn 4, but he has turn 4 Ugin. Such is life. (L)
G2: I have a super good Sentinel/Druid fueled turn 2 and kill on 3 before he has does anything. (W)
G3: At this point I'm a little nervous because x-2 can't top 8, and I was on the draw. He mulls, I mull. He mulls again, and again, and at this point I'm liking my chances a little more. He ends up going to 3, and really doesn't do anything. Better lucky than good. (W)
Round 4 vs BW Tokens (2-0)
G1: Bitterblossom tokens aren't good against Ezuri (W)
G2: He gets stuck on 2 lands and I run him over (W)
Round 5 vs UW Control (2-1)
G1: He durdles around about, verdicts me, but I have a Lead to refuel and end up getting there. (W)
G2: He Paths my Selfless Spirit and my Ezuri, verdicts, then beats me down with flyers. (L)
G3: He verdicts me, but I have a Coco to rebuild. Just kept putting 3-5 power out at a time and swung until he died. (W)
Round 6 vs Burn (2-1)
G1: I win the die roll on the win-and-in, which is super relevevant in this matchup. I'm a turn faster than him, and Shaman does Shaman things. (W)
G2: He has double Searing Blaze on the play and I can't stick a relevant creature. (L)
G3: He stumbles, missing his second land drop, and I max punish him with Archdruid + Ezuri. Into the Top 8! (W)
Top 8 vs Grixis Death's Shadow (2-1)
G1: Given that all of the 4-0's double drew in, I go in as the 3rd seed. I'm on the play, and he gets himself low enough that I can Shaman him out. (W)
G2: He has Izzet Staticaster which crushes my Archdruid-less draw. (L)
G3: I Chord for Chameleon Colossus and he dies to the best card in this match up. (W)
Top 4 vs Vizier Combo (2-1)
G1: This is not only a bad match up, especially given that he's on the play as the 2 seed. He combos me on 3. (L)
G2: I'm on the play, and I have turn 3 Ezuri draw. (W)
G3: I keep a slow draw, but it has both Phyrexian Revoker to stop the Druid combo and Surgical Extraction for the Finks combo. I get Revoker down off of a Druid turn, he topdecks Viscera Seer to Finks combo, and I surgical and win the game next turn off of Ezuri.
Finals vs Burn (2-0)
G1: I'm on the play, and G1 is basically the same as G1 of Round 6.
G2: He mulls to 4 and Burrenton Forge-Tender draws the concession.
Overall impression: the deck is ridiculous in a meta of Eldrazi Tron and Grixis Shadow. Lead the Stampede overperformed, which isn't all that surprising. 3 mana to typically draw 3-5 cards is bonkers.
I took the primer decklist and just slammed the deck.
2 things worth mentioning:
It seems that collected company is the real payoff card of the deck.
I wish i could just have a 5th one because i just demanded it in some situations.
Sideboard:
What is Monastery Siege for? Burn?
It's a clunky card that doesn't seem to do so much on it's own.
Also the 4 Counterspells have been a bit too much.
I just wish to board in an all-around counter, but the most problematic things for this deck are Karn, Anger, Engineered Explosives, Liliana...
Abzan with displacers seems good on paper with Shaman, Visionary, and Dwynen's as etb targets; however, adding colorless will make GB/Abzan even more clunky given GB is already known for that.
I think TKS' best home is in a non-Gbx shell. Unless you take out shamans then maybe it can work with TS coming in from the side for more hand hate. The combination of both seems like a great strategy against fast decks (screw you Counters Company) and control.
Am I a madman for even considering GB with no Shaman?
Abzan with displacers seems good on paper with Shaman, Visionary, and Dwynen's as etb targets; however, adding colorless will make GB/Abzan even more clunky given GB is already known for that.
I think TKS' best home is in a non-Gbx shell. Unless you take out shamans then maybe it can work with TS coming in from the side for more hand hate. The combination of both seems like a great strategy against fast decks (screw you Counters Company) and control.
Am I a madman for even considering GB with no Shaman?
Hello ! I'm playing with my abzan elves and I don't really know how to sideboard. I know what to enter in the main, but I never know what to get out !
Can you help me please, giving examples with popular decks (I'm sorry if my english is not very good)
DS, Grixis control, Abzan, Jund, Affinity, D&T, Fairy, Burn, Storm, UW, Dredge, Lantern, Merfolk, Tron, Titanshift...
Abzan with displacers seems good on paper with Shaman, Visionary, and Dwynen's as etb targets; however, adding colorless will make GB/Abzan even more clunky given GB is already known for that.
I think TKS' best home is in a non-Gbx shell. Unless you take out shamans then maybe it can work with TS coming in from the side for more hand hate. The combination of both seems like a great strategy against fast decks (screw you Counters Company) and control.
Am I a madman for even considering GB with no Shaman?
Well, you should check out my scg iq top8 list. I made Shaman and tks work. Although it's only one tournament, it is worth further testing. In my opinion, it wasn't as clunky as it sounds since colorless sources are also gb sources. In essence, pain lands are trim color lands.
@Polymorph,
I tried the monastery siege, but didn't like it and that's why my top4 list went towards discard to fight combo and tron. As Syreal94 says, I think counterspell may be better. I'm going to test it at the next tournament. Will report.
I took the primer decklist and just slammed the deck.
2 things worth mentioning:
It seems that collected company is the real payoff card of the deck.
I wish i could just have a 5th one because i just demanded it in some situations.
Sideboard:
What is Monastery Siege for? Burn?
It's a clunky card that doesn't seem to do so much on it's own.
Also the 4 Counterspells have been a bit too much.
I just wish to board in an all-around counter, but the most problematic things for this deck are Karn, Anger, Engineered Explosives, Liliana...
Monastery Siege is brought in against decks heavy with spot removal like BGx or Grixis. Early on it taxes their mana so they can only play a spell per turn and late in the game if you draw one, you can pick Khans to draw additional card on your draw step.
For those running TKS. Wouldn't boreal Druid be a better option than nettle Sentinel? I already think boreal is just as good as nettle without have mandatory colorless
I love all the new ideas coming in and after i tried Sultai on two ~24 people tournaments (one was 4-1, the other 1-4 O.o) I am happy to test UG TKS Elves when i get my 4th Cavern. Do i really need the 9th colorless producing land (Westvale Abbey) or are 8 enough? Would Nykthos be a good alternative?
I think the 9th land is quite important, but it doesn't have to be Westvale. Nykthos is a fine substitute alongside possibly Mutavault, if you wanna go that route. Nykthos just happens to be slightly worse with the colour demands of both Nissa and TKS.
The Fauna Shaman is a flex spot I'm testing out; I couldn't find a better 2cmc Elf that perfects my curve. 11 Sources of white and 11 sources of colorless ensures I never have a problem with mana. Overall I'm pretty happy with the list, I'm tempted to take it to Cash Modern Monday to test it out.
That makes me curious to try something like this:
4x Dwynen's Elite
4x Elvish Archdruid
4x Elvish Mystic
2x Elvish Visionary
1x Eternal Witness
1x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4x Heritage Druid
4x Llanowar Elves
2x Nettle Sentinel
4x Shaman of the Pack
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Chord of Calling
4x Collected Company
Land (18)
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Forest
4x Gilt-Leaf Palace
4x Llanowar Wastes
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Westvale Abbey
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Chameleon Colossus
1x Elvish Champion
1x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
2x Fracturing Gust
1x Narnam Renegade
2x Pithing Needle
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Selfless Spirit
12 potential sources of for Shaman along with 10 sources of for TKS should be enough. 29 Elves for Gilt-Leaf Palace and 30 3cmc creatures for Collected Company. Possibly switch Chord for Evolution? But I like being able to EOT Chord or CoCo, so maybe keep it as is. I might have to give this a try...
That being said, I do like this idea of TKs being thrown in. The card is a powerhouse across the meta and is miles better than Sculler or Maggot.
GBRJund Elves
GWDevoted Elves
WDeath & Taxes
GWUBRHumans
EDH:
GTitania, Protector of Argoth
That makes sense. I wasn't really thinking about the curve with all of the available mana producing creatures in the deck. But you're probably right. I might give it a run just to see what happens at my local shop. I could go -2 Visionary / +1 Sentinel and +1 Land. It would be weird to have no Visionaries in the deck, but that would drop the curve ever so slightly while upping the land to 19. Can't hurt to just run it out there for a casual Modern night and see what happens.
3 Forest
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
4 Llanowar Wastes
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Pendelhaven
1 Westvale Abbey
//38:56
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Nettle Sentinel
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Shaman of the Pack
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Collected Company
3 Thoughtseize
3 Lead the Stampede
2 Dismember
6 open slots
9 <>, 9 b sources for Thoughtseize, 13 b sources for Shaman.
This is the absolute maximum the manabase can take.
There is also potential for a g/<> list where you take the above and:
-4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
-1 Blooming Marsh
-4 Shaman of the Pack
-1 Eternal Witness
+4 Painland (Yavimaya Coast, Karplusan Forest, Brushland - an ideal would be a 2/2/2/2 split, all either foil old border or foil w/ colourless diamond symbol)
+1 Forest
+4 Matter Reshaper
+1 Ezuri (required to have 3 in mono green/gw imo, sorry Witness)
A GW version is also on the cards if you do the following:
-4 Llanowar Wastes
-4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
-1 Blooming Marsh
-4 Shaman of the Pack
-1 Eternal Witness
+4 Brushland
+3 Razorverge Thicket
+2 Horizon Canopy
+4 Eldrazi Displacer
+1 Ezuri/Mirror Entity
Plenty of options for starting our very own Eldrazi Winter.
I linked the top 8 list for the tournament that I got fourth place in. Unusual top 8, actually, so it may be a good case study for those who might travel here in the future.
Excited for all these ideas guys!
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
I'm playing a quick game with the GBc list (will finish a league with it at some point tomorrow) - the guy Cliqued me and saw double TKS, Eternal Witness after seeing two Archdruids, Mystic and Nettle. He tanked for quite a while before picking the Witness. It definitely has the shock and awe factor going for it, at least.
List: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/706032#paper
Report:
Round 1 vs Eldrazi Tron (2-1)
G1 I had a fast Archdruid draw and his turn 3 Endbringer didn't stop me. (W)
G2 He has natural tron on the play and my slower draw can't beat Ballista on 3 into Endbringer. (L)
G3 I have a crazy Heritage Druid + double Elite draw and he dies to a horde of smallish green dudes. (W)
Round 2 vs Eldrazi Tron (0-2)
Not much to say about this match; he had turn 3 tron into All is Dust both games and I had basically no recourse. (L,L)
Round 3 vs GW Tron (2-1)
G1: Him winning the die roll was what got it. I spend turn 3 setting up for a lethal Ezuri turn 4, but he has turn 4 Ugin. Such is life. (L)
G2: I have a super good Sentinel/Druid fueled turn 2 and kill on 3 before he has does anything. (W)
G3: At this point I'm a little nervous because x-2 can't top 8, and I was on the draw. He mulls, I mull. He mulls again, and again, and at this point I'm liking my chances a little more. He ends up going to 3, and really doesn't do anything. Better lucky than good. (W)
Round 4 vs BW Tokens (2-0)
G1: Bitterblossom tokens aren't good against Ezuri (W)
G2: He gets stuck on 2 lands and I run him over (W)
Round 5 vs UW Control (2-1)
G1: He durdles around about, verdicts me, but I have a Lead to refuel and end up getting there. (W)
G2: He Paths my Selfless Spirit and my Ezuri, verdicts, then beats me down with flyers. (L)
G3: He verdicts me, but I have a Coco to rebuild. Just kept putting 3-5 power out at a time and swung until he died. (W)
Round 6 vs Burn (2-1)
G1: I win the die roll on the win-and-in, which is super relevevant in this matchup. I'm a turn faster than him, and Shaman does Shaman things. (W)
G2: He has double Searing Blaze on the play and I can't stick a relevant creature. (L)
G3: He stumbles, missing his second land drop, and I max punish him with Archdruid + Ezuri. Into the Top 8! (W)
Top 8 vs Grixis Death's Shadow (2-1)
G1: Given that all of the 4-0's double drew in, I go in as the 3rd seed. I'm on the play, and he gets himself low enough that I can Shaman him out. (W)
G2: He has Izzet Staticaster which crushes my Archdruid-less draw. (L)
G3: I Chord for Chameleon Colossus and he dies to the best card in this match up. (W)
Top 4 vs Vizier Combo (2-1)
G1: This is not only a bad match up, especially given that he's on the play as the 2 seed. He combos me on 3. (L)
G2: I'm on the play, and I have turn 3 Ezuri draw. (W)
G3: I keep a slow draw, but it has both Phyrexian Revoker to stop the Druid combo and Surgical Extraction for the Finks combo. I get Revoker down off of a Druid turn, he topdecks Viscera Seer to Finks combo, and I surgical and win the game next turn off of Ezuri.
Finals vs Burn (2-0)
G1: I'm on the play, and G1 is basically the same as G1 of Round 6.
G2: He mulls to 4 and Burrenton Forge-Tender draws the concession.
Overall impression: the deck is ridiculous in a meta of Eldrazi Tron and Grixis Shadow. Lead the Stampede overperformed, which isn't all that surprising. 3 mana to typically draw 3-5 cards is bonkers.
Thanks for reading!
Jake
I took the primer decklist and just slammed the deck.
2 things worth mentioning:
It seems that collected company is the real payoff card of the deck.
I wish i could just have a 5th one because i just demanded it in some situations.
Sideboard:
What is Monastery Siege for? Burn?
It's a clunky card that doesn't seem to do so much on it's own.
Also the 4 Counterspells have been a bit too much.
I just wish to board in an all-around counter, but the most problematic things for this deck are Karn, Anger, Engineered Explosives, Liliana...
Has someone experimented with other counters?
Unsubstiante or stuff like Simic Charm / Sultai Charm?
On another note:
It felt like this list needs another Dork.
Propably Elves of the Deep Shadow over a single Essence Warden?
Green @ it's best
I think TKS' best home is in a non-Gbx shell. Unless you take out shamans then maybe it can work with TS coming in from the side for more hand hate. The combination of both seems like a great strategy against fast decks (screw you Counters Company) and control.
Am I a madman for even considering GB with no Shaman?
GBRJund Elves
GWDevoted Elves
WDeath & Taxes
GWUBRHumans
EDH:
GTitania, Protector of Argoth
Yes.
Can you help me please, giving examples with popular decks (I'm sorry if my english is not very good)
DS, Grixis control, Abzan, Jund, Affinity, D&T, Fairy, Burn, Storm, UW, Dredge, Lantern, Merfolk, Tron, Titanshift...
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/541346#paper
Thanks a lot !!!!
Merged with the Elves thread. - Torpf
Vintage Powered Cube
Remaining Good Cards Cube
Worst Cards Cube
EDH decks
RGWUOmnath, Locus of Creation
1RWBKaalia of the Vast
Well, you should check out my scg iq top8 list. I made Shaman and tks work. Although it's only one tournament, it is worth further testing. In my opinion, it wasn't as clunky as it sounds since colorless sources are also gb sources. In essence, pain lands are trim color lands.
@Polymorph,
I tried the monastery siege, but didn't like it and that's why my top4 list went towards discard to fight combo and tron. As Syreal94 says, I think counterspell may be better. I'm going to test it at the next tournament. Will report.
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
Hmmm...so you'd completely cut Chord? It seems like that would still be an important piece to grab a Shaman, TKS, Witness, Ezuri, etc.
LOL! Let's do it!
Monastery Siege is brought in against decks heavy with spot removal like BGx or Grixis. Early on it taxes their mana so they can only play a spell per turn and late in the game if you draw one, you can pick Khans to draw additional card on your draw step.
WBG Elves WBG
Cheeri0s
EDH:
RG Omnath, Locus of Rage RG || GWUB Atraxa, Praetors' Voice GWUB
R Zo-Zu the Punisher R || WU Brago, King Eternal WU
UB Gisa and Geralf UB || BGW Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW
Congratulations.
I'm thinking if playing a similar list, what was your broad sideboard plan in each match?
Also any poor performers in the side or over performers that are must haves?
I think the 9th land is quite important, but it doesn't have to be Westvale. Nykthos is a fine substitute alongside possibly Mutavault, if you wanna go that route. Nykthos just happens to be slightly worse with the colour demands of both Nissa and TKS.
therefore i cut it.
Green @ it's best
Ya, chords may be necessary as a two of to maintain speed and versatility. I used lead in my GBc list, but the meta now may need chords.
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4
I blame Wizards for all these possibilities I'm given. Heh.
On a different note, you guys have me on the eldrazi hype train now. I've been testing the following list with great success through cockatrice.
3x Boreal Druid
4x Dwynen's Elite
4x Elvish Archdruid
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Elvish Visionary
3x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1x Fauna Shaman
4x Heritage Druid
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Cavern of Souls
3x Forest
3x Horizon Canopy
4x Razorverge Thicket
3x Chord of Calling
4x Collected Company
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Kataki, War's Wage
4x Path to Exile
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Selfless Spirit
The Fauna Shaman is a flex spot I'm testing out; I couldn't find a better 2cmc Elf that perfects my curve. 11 Sources of white and 11 sources of colorless ensures I never have a problem with mana. Overall I'm pretty happy with the list, I'm tempted to take it to Cash Modern Monday to test it out.
Edit: Wastes is actually 3rd forest.
GBRJund Elves
GWDevoted Elves
WDeath & Taxes
GWUBRHumans
EDH:
GTitania, Protector of Argoth