Faeries is almost certainly playing this as a 4 of, 3 of atleast, and while faeries may still be too slow, faeries is a pretty bad matchup for jeskai.
Sultai is also fairly likely to play 3+ of these. Its totally playable alongside decay.
Sure, cards like maelstrom pulse, sultai charm, murderous cut, slaughter pact, etc, will all be played in sultai too, but cheap removal is cheap removal.
How good sultai will be against us is certainly dependent on the build, but jund with counterspells and AVs of their own is likely more of an even matchup matchup than the current midrange decks we've got.
Hello, I'm thinking about buying into Modern on MTGO. Jeskai colours and control playstyle has always been my thing so I naturally ended up here. I was not following Modern recently. What exactly made Jeskai Control go from T1 to T2? From what I can tell, it was one of the best decks few months back, dealing well with Infect/Burn and other T1 decks. It might be wise to wait for the January unban announcement, but I think I will end up playing Jeskai Control anyways. Do you think it has the potential to be T1 deck again? From what I can tell, there is a tendency to make control decks more appealing in Modern again. Thanks for answers.
edit: Also, I noticed, recently there has been the R/W control/prison deck using Nahiri as a win con. It seems it might even be a thing to play in mardu colours (for fatal push, etc...). So I'm mainly trying to figure out where to put my money, since it's a big deal buying Snapcasters and A-Visions, or Blood Moons and Chalices.
It's not "tier one" according to MTG Salvation but I would contend it's a tier one deck. It has good match-ups against most of the most popular decks and the others can be tuned pretty well at the moment. If we want to beat dredge it's more a matter of dedicating the proper sideboard resources.
So yeah, good match-ups include Burn, Jund, Infect, and Affinity.
Alright, dredge and infect got weakened a bit. I think that generally our gameplan barely changes, and I'll still be running 2x RIP 1x SE for a while. Still, the format got a bit slower which is good for us
I suspect that devoting sideboard space to tron and valakut is going to be important more than ever.
Buy your runed halos and you crumble to dusts now!
TBH, anger + path alone will go a lot farther against dredge than it used to.
The deck will be much less popular, won't be able to put quite as much power in play as quickly, and won't have the obnoxious 10/10 that can't be killed outside of exiling.
Even then, a rest in peace or two will have a lot of splash damage against grixis, which frees up a ton of sideboard space.
Our mainboards are almost certainly enough to deal with pump spell aggro now, just in case anyone sided much specifically for it.
Re: my previous comment: I too think that Nahiri is the best finisher, certainly. I've just felt this tension between 'Plan A' and 'Plan B' in playing the deck, and also felt like Nahiri is somewhat predictable and easy to hate out. Hence the interest in a deck with more redundant 'finishers' (as much as VClique is a finisher) and more interaction. I'm still interested in testing the deck to see how it feels in comparison, but Jeskai Harbinger is certainly more of 'my' deck -- and with the bans (more below) I think we can look forward to a somewhat better position in the format, hopefully.
All in all, I think this B&R announcement is good news for this deck.
I think the Gitaxian Probe ban is a good thing for Modern on the whole. Free cantrips and free perfect information (often leading to accelerated and certain kills for Infect, Death's Shadow, UR Kiln Fiend, etc.) isn't a good thing long term (compared with Legacy where it feels on par with the power leave of the threats) and removing them should both slow down these decks and make reactive play a bit more powerful, which bodes well for Jeskai Harbinger.
I suspect Dredge will stick around on the strength of Prized Amalgam, Cathartic Reunion, and the dredge mechanism itself, but some reduction in its power seems good for us. Rest in Peace still seems good against Dredge and Grixis in particular. I suppose time will tell whether we need to devote space to fighting the big mana decks again.
Both of these changes, along with Fatal Push possibly giving more decks tools to play in Modern's fast meta game, seems like good news for this deck, and more interactive play in general. Here's hoping to more success for the deck on screen and from the players here in 2017.
Dredge nerf is great for us. It was a frustrating matchup, and while winnable was an uphill battle. We also get to see other decks that Dredge kept out. Gitaxian Probe being sent to hell is absolutely fantastic. We didn't play it so the decks that did are brought down to our level. Infect takes a massive hit without Probe and will be forced to run the inferior Peek for information.
As someone who didn't play the banned cards, I'm quite happy.
Its a little bittersweet for all of the delver/storm players who used probe more or less fairly, but nerfing dredge and infect, while leaving the deck intact is good, and the same can be said for suicide decks, though they're likely to take the hit much harder, I do think that what remains is playable in some degree.
Perhaps we'll see UR thing in the ice aggro builds switch to a bit more of a tempo deck, playing more counter magic and such. Perhaps we'll see some delver/bloo hybrids.
For Death's shadow, I think delirium jund and DSA will grow closer as well. Whether or not the shadow itself makes it into that deck is unknown, but I think its still quite viable, though no longer t1.
For anyone playing fair, its great news in a nutshell.
We shall have to see how the meta shifts (big mana decks are likely to spring back up) but being able to narrow our lenses on the decks we want to beat should help immensely.
Playing a pair of rips, a pair of verdicts, and a couple crumble to dusts provides decent coverage and feels a lot better than 2 rips, 2 angers and a surgical extraction.
For once, playing ancestral visions feels like a good place to be.
Dredge nerf is great for us. It was a frustrating matchup, and while winnable was an uphill battle. We also get to see other decks that Dredge kept out. Gitaxian Probe being sent to hell is absolutely fantastic. We didn't play it so the decks that did are brought down to our level. Infect takes a massive hit without Probe and will be forced to run the inferior Peek for information.
I think Infect will be more likely to splash a few main deck counterspells and an extra land or two rather than play Peek.
We should see a gradual rise in Tron and Scapeshift now.
= (
Hoping to draw on others' experience, as I haven't played against Tron/Valakut too much... What does everyone think the most effective sideboard plan is against Tron/Valakut? Crumble to Dust or some other form of land destruction (Spreading Seas for a T2 play that cantrips, Molten Rain for a T3 play that can be Snap'd), or more of a tempo/aggro plan with Vendilion Clique, Geist of Saint Traft, and Negate (that can also come in against Ad Nauseam and other random decks we may want to race).
For others who were running Blessed Alliance: Do you have any inclination to cut the card from your sideboard given the ban of Gitaxian Probe and the corresponding hit (even if slight) to Infect/Death's Shadow/etc.? With 3 Lightning Helix in the main (what many lists have settled on, it seems), perhaps we don't need additional lifegain against Burn, and can cut that card to free up a slot?
We should see a gradual rise in Tron and Scapeshift now.
= (
Hoping to draw on others' experience, as I haven't played against Tron/Valakut too much... What does everyone think the most effective sideboard plan is against Tron/Valakut? Crumble to Dust or some other form of land destruction (Spreading Seas for a T2 play that cantrips, Molten Rain for a T3 play that can be Snap'd), or more of a tempo/aggro plan with Vendilion Clique, Geist of Saint Traft, and Negate (that can also come in against Ad Nauseam and other random decks we may want to race).
For others who were running Blessed Alliance: Do you have any inclination to cut the card from your sideboard given the ban of Gitaxian Probe and the corresponding hit (even if slight) to Infect/Death's Shadow/etc.? With 3 Lightning Helix in the main (what many lists have settled on, it seems), perhaps we don't need additional lifegain against Burn, and can cut that card to free up a slot?
Blessed Alliance has never been a maindeck card and few sideboards run it either. I think it's fine in a known meta but a bit reckless in an open meta.
Runed halo is serously one of the best cards against valakut.
Turning off the actual molten pinnacle means they only have a handful of creatures to deal with, which shouldn't be a problem. Crumble is obviously fine, but halo is very very powerful.
Against tron, seas, crumble, molten rain, clique, geist, negate, and other counterspells are usually enough, IMO.
I'm still not completely sure if I like siding out nahiri against green based tron or not. I've gone back and forth on it, because I like that nahiri ends the game quickly, and eats wurmcoils/worldbreakers/ulamogs, but I don't like that she's a sorcery speed 4 mana planeswalker.
Bant Eldrazi also seems to be totally off the radar, but expect it to come back with a passion.
Verdicts obviously are good here, and playing nahiri (and not flash, kiki jiki, etc) is definitely a godsend.
Runed halo is serously one of the best cards against valakut.
Turning off the actual molten pinnacle means they only have a handful of creatures to deal with, which shouldn't be a problem. Crumble is obviously fine, but halo is very very powerful.
Against tron, seas, crumble, molten rain, clique, geist, negate, and other counterspells are usually enough, IMO.
Well, yes, all of those cards should definitely be enough vs. Tron. I guess my question was which do people here like best / what have people found most effective? (E.g., Crumble is obviously powerful, but is it fast enough? Should we use the cheaper options (Seas, Rain), or even change to more of a tempo plan?) Trying to see if others have experience to share, since I haven't played against these decks too many times (compared to Burn/Merfolk/etc., which I've faced a lot.)
Runed Halo certainly seems strong vs. Valakut, though not so much against Tron, and it seems like one answer to both big mana decks might be better. What other decks do you bring Runed Halo in against?
Runed halo isn't great against tron.
Its nice against bogles, infect, suicide aggro, ad nauseum, eldrazi, scapeshift, grishoalbrand, etc.
I personally think a couple clique, a couple negate, and a couple molten rain are where you want to be. A geist or two if you can easily find room is decent as well.
If you really wanted crumble over molten rain you could, but sometimes cheaper is better, IMO.
Against tron, you have some land destruction, and a lot of tempo options (counters/flash creatures).
Against valakut, you're going for more of a classic control gameplan. Finding halo (or crumble, or leyline, or whatever) and then just running them out of threats is my usual plan.
I wanna try and fit an izzet staticcaster in the side, I just wasn't sure what to cut. I was thinking maybe a jace or an elspeth
This sideboard would have a very tough time pulling it's weight through a 2 day GP.
Jace doesn't pull it's weight nor does it shore up any bad match-ups. Relic is very bad. Run RIP if you want to run graveyard hate (please don't bring up snapcaster). 2 elspeth seems like too many. I would only recommend Blessed Alliance in known metas where you know infect and Boggles are prevalent.
I wanna try and fit an izzet staticcaster in the side, I just wasn't sure what to cut. I was thinking maybe a jace or an elspeth
This sideboard would have a very tough time pulling it's weight through a 2 day GP.
Jace doesn't pull it's weight nor does it shore up any bad match-ups. Relic is very bad. Run RIP if you want to run graveyard hate (please don't bring up snapcaster). 2 elspeth seems like too many. I would only recommend Blessed Alliance in known metas where you know infect and Boggles are prevalent.
You have plenty of room for a Staticaster!
I'm starting to like Jace less and less so I'm probably fine in cutting it too. Elspeth is for sure an option to drop, as getting stuck with 2 in hand is brutal
and yeah I'm probably gonna put the RIPs back in
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Sultai is also fairly likely to play 3+ of these. Its totally playable alongside decay.
Sure, cards like maelstrom pulse, sultai charm, murderous cut, slaughter pact, etc, will all be played in sultai too, but cheap removal is cheap removal.
How good sultai will be against us is certainly dependent on the build, but jund with counterspells and AVs of their own is likely more of an even matchup matchup than the current midrange decks we've got.
It's not "tier one" according to MTG Salvation but I would contend it's a tier one deck. It has good match-ups against most of the most popular decks and the others can be tuned pretty well at the moment. If we want to beat dredge it's more a matter of dedicating the proper sideboard resources.
So yeah, good match-ups include Burn, Jund, Infect, and Affinity.
Buy your runed halos and you crumble to dusts now!
The deck will be much less popular, won't be able to put quite as much power in play as quickly, and won't have the obnoxious 10/10 that can't be killed outside of exiling.
Even then, a rest in peace or two will have a lot of splash damage against grixis, which frees up a ton of sideboard space.
Our mainboards are almost certainly enough to deal with pump spell aggro now, just in case anyone sided much specifically for it.
All in all, I think this B&R announcement is good news for this deck.
I think the Gitaxian Probe ban is a good thing for Modern on the whole. Free cantrips and free perfect information (often leading to accelerated and certain kills for Infect, Death's Shadow, UR Kiln Fiend, etc.) isn't a good thing long term (compared with Legacy where it feels on par with the power leave of the threats) and removing them should both slow down these decks and make reactive play a bit more powerful, which bodes well for Jeskai Harbinger.
I suspect Dredge will stick around on the strength of Prized Amalgam, Cathartic Reunion, and the dredge mechanism itself, but some reduction in its power seems good for us. Rest in Peace still seems good against Dredge and Grixis in particular. I suppose time will tell whether we need to devote space to fighting the big mana decks again.
Both of these changes, along with Fatal Push possibly giving more decks tools to play in Modern's fast meta game, seems like good news for this deck, and more interactive play in general. Here's hoping to more success for the deck on screen and from the players here in 2017.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Its a little bittersweet for all of the delver/storm players who used probe more or less fairly, but nerfing dredge and infect, while leaving the deck intact is good, and the same can be said for suicide decks, though they're likely to take the hit much harder, I do think that what remains is playable in some degree.
Perhaps we'll see UR thing in the ice aggro builds switch to a bit more of a tempo deck, playing more counter magic and such. Perhaps we'll see some delver/bloo hybrids.
For Death's shadow, I think delirium jund and DSA will grow closer as well. Whether or not the shadow itself makes it into that deck is unknown, but I think its still quite viable, though no longer t1.
For anyone playing fair, its great news in a nutshell.
We shall have to see how the meta shifts (big mana decks are likely to spring back up) but being able to narrow our lenses on the decks we want to beat should help immensely.
Playing a pair of rips, a pair of verdicts, and a couple crumble to dusts provides decent coverage and feels a lot better than 2 rips, 2 angers and a surgical extraction.
For once, playing ancestral visions feels like a good place to be.
I think Infect will be more likely to splash a few main deck counterspells and an extra land or two rather than play Peek.
= (
Hoping to draw on others' experience, as I haven't played against Tron/Valakut too much... What does everyone think the most effective sideboard plan is against Tron/Valakut? Crumble to Dust or some other form of land destruction (Spreading Seas for a T2 play that cantrips, Molten Rain for a T3 play that can be Snap'd), or more of a tempo/aggro plan with Vendilion Clique, Geist of Saint Traft, and Negate (that can also come in against Ad Nauseam and other random decks we may want to race).
For others who were running Blessed Alliance: Do you have any inclination to cut the card from your sideboard given the ban of Gitaxian Probe and the corresponding hit (even if slight) to Infect/Death's Shadow/etc.? With 3 Lightning Helix in the main (what many lists have settled on, it seems), perhaps we don't need additional lifegain against Burn, and can cut that card to free up a slot?
Blessed Alliance has never been a maindeck card and few sideboards run it either. I think it's fine in a known meta but a bit reckless in an open meta.
Turning off the actual molten pinnacle means they only have a handful of creatures to deal with, which shouldn't be a problem. Crumble is obviously fine, but halo is very very powerful.
Against tron, seas, crumble, molten rain, clique, geist, negate, and other counterspells are usually enough, IMO.
I'm still not completely sure if I like siding out nahiri against green based tron or not. I've gone back and forth on it, because I like that nahiri ends the game quickly, and eats wurmcoils/worldbreakers/ulamogs, but I don't like that she's a sorcery speed 4 mana planeswalker.
Bant Eldrazi also seems to be totally off the radar, but expect it to come back with a passion.
Verdicts obviously are good here, and playing nahiri (and not flash, kiki jiki, etc) is definitely a godsend.
Well, yes, all of those cards should definitely be enough vs. Tron. I guess my question was which do people here like best / what have people found most effective? (E.g., Crumble is obviously powerful, but is it fast enough? Should we use the cheaper options (Seas, Rain), or even change to more of a tempo plan?) Trying to see if others have experience to share, since I haven't played against these decks too many times (compared to Burn/Merfolk/etc., which I've faced a lot.)
Runed Halo certainly seems strong vs. Valakut, though not so much against Tron, and it seems like one answer to both big mana decks might be better. What other decks do you bring Runed Halo in against?
Its nice against bogles, infect, suicide aggro, ad nauseum, eldrazi, scapeshift, grishoalbrand, etc.
I personally think a couple clique, a couple negate, and a couple molten rain are where you want to be. A geist or two if you can easily find room is decent as well.
If you really wanted crumble over molten rain you could, but sometimes cheaper is better, IMO.
Against tron, you have some land destruction, and a lot of tempo options (counters/flash creatures).
Against valakut, you're going for more of a classic control gameplan. Finding halo (or crumble, or leyline, or whatever) and then just running them out of threats is my usual plan.
2x negate
2x blessed alliance
2x stony silence
2x relic of progenitus
1x jace, architect of thought
1x wear/tear
1x anger of the gods
1x dispel
1x celestial purge
I wanna try and fit an izzet staticcaster in the side, I just wasn't sure what to cut. I was thinking maybe a jace or an elspeth
This sideboard would have a very tough time pulling it's weight through a 2 day GP.
Jace doesn't pull it's weight nor does it shore up any bad match-ups. Relic is very bad. Run RIP if you want to run graveyard hate (please don't bring up snapcaster). 2 elspeth seems like too many. I would only recommend Blessed Alliance in known metas where you know infect and Boggles are prevalent.
You have plenty of room for a Staticaster!
I'm starting to like Jace less and less so I'm probably fine in cutting it too. Elspeth is for sure an option to drop, as getting stuck with 2 in hand is brutal
and yeah I'm probably gonna put the RIPs back in