There just really isn't much to post about right now; no big results to go over, and from my perspective the meta is kind of "solved" in that there really isn't anything I'd change about my list right now; infect and dredge are big, some broad cards versus the midrangey brews that spike tournaments, forfeit the tron MU as it is fairly uncommon. For better and for worse the deck has grown into a relatively solid block with little flex slots and whenever I deviated from it I ended up disliking the change
I finally picked up an Elspeth, Sun's Champion in a trade. Not having played the card before... What matchups do you bring it in? Jund/Abzan seem like good choices, but at 6 mana, I'm not sure what other situations it's good in.
Before New Year's I finally had a chance to take part in a medium (to small) size Modern event. There were 22 players and we played 4 rounds and I tied for 1st (with two other players) at 4-0.
My list was pretty much whatever the last thing I posted in here was. I can go into detail later if it matters to anyone.
Round One vs. Naya Burn
I saw this player playing on the side before the event and assumed he was playing the same deck I saw before (which he was).
I kept a normal looking hand and he went crazy on T3. I had Anger of the Gods but after that too many dead Mana Leaks and he ended up killing me. The game was close, though. G2 I mull'd to 5 where I found 2xRest in Peace, Hallowed Fountain, Mountain, Lightning Helix. He was slow out of the gate and my first RIP only got two creatures and then he Abrupt Decay'd it. My second one stuck. It seems he made a mistake, though. After the match I found out he could have Collective Brutality while I was tapped out to take RIP number two and then Decay later and work up to dredging again. Instead, he allowed the second one to resolve because he wanted to use his Neonate. G3 I never drew a RIP and I kept seven because the hand was gas. Sacred Foundry, Island, Arid Mesa, Anger of the Gods, Anger of the Gods, Serum Visions, Serum Visions. He ended up taking an Anger on T1 and playing "Mom Hug" on T2 while I sculpted my draws. (Lands to the bottom) PTE, Snap, Snap to the top. Long story short he got decked and Nahiri -2 was activated 4 times in that game.
2-0
Round Three vs. Grixis Delver
G1 My opponent kept a one-lander and he played a Young Pyromancer on T4 and I followed up with Nahiri which ended up valuing into a second Nahiri which found Spaghetti. G2 Was long and grindy and he hit me with two really good K-Commands! and was able to bolt me out. G3 was also long but he flooded toward the end after I path'd both of his Tasigurs. And I beat down with Colonnades.
3-0
Round Four vs. Merfolk
This opponent knew what I was on. But I didn't know what he was on. I kept a solid counter spell hand but lost to a sweet aether vial hand plus normal lord package. G2 I was able to keep him off lords and topdeck'd a Tec Edge not to die to Mutavault and then pulled ahead with a Helix and killed him with Clique after responding to his vial activation to "steal" the Master of waves!! G3 My opponet mull'd to 5 and I had a couple removal spells and then Nahiri = )
Anyway, just 4 rounds but thinks felt good. Faced a nice range of match-ups and was challenged in all four matches. Actually I had a lot of fun trying to figure out sequencing and whatnot.
This doesn't break the format or anything, but I've been running Spell Pierce to get lower to the ground against aggro, and recently I've even had success with Mana Tithe. This card is very narrow, but if you counter something early in game 1 it can tilt your opponent. Then you can side it out and they will fear the untapped white source for the rest of the match!! ...just another move to have in your bag of tricks if you own this card.
I have also found a one off Logic Knot to be a powerhouse.
I played in a five round tournament at Geek Fortress on New Year's, didn't do so well going 3-2. I drew pretty poorly in my first two matches that I ended up losing, which was Taking Turns and RG devotion. I got some advice on my deck from a friend that I don't see that often and TJ (commentator at Geek Fortress). They said that I should take out a Mana Leak for a Logic Knot. They also said I should switch the Supreme Verdict I have mainboard with the second Anger of the Gods in my sideboard and that RIPs would be better than Relics.
So, Aether Revolt spoilers are done, and it looks like we got... nothing. I was hoping for a revolt mechanism counterspell along the lines of Fatal Push, but no such luck. On that subject, though, it seems like Fatal Push could be a good thing for this deck. If more mana-efficient removal enters modern, having a deck that invalidates that removal to win the game seems like a good thing. It does hit Celestial Colonnade, though, which is a bit of a downside, especially since we can’t protect it with Spell Snare (like we can against Terminate). I wonder whether it makes any sense to main-deck Negate in light of (1) an up-tick in Fatal Push and (2) the fact that most of our deck is well-equipped to deal with creatures. Anyway, I’m hoping this addition to Modern (along with any potential bans/unbans) helps slow the format down a bit, and helps us regain some footing against the horde of aggressive decks.
On a related subject, have any of the experienced Jeskai Harbinger players experimented with the more Flash/Tempo-oriented builds, and how they compare to Jeskai Harbinger? (For an example, see Kyle Boggemes’ list at http://www.gatheringmagic.com/kyleboggemes-12152016-a-format-for-everyone/) If Modern continues the way it’s going (relatively little interaction / removal spells / etc.), it seems like this build has some merit to it: Blade Splicer and Restoration Angel both defend and attack, and Spell Queller helps chip in for some damage and disrupt the opponent long enough to close out the game with Angels, Colonnades, and burn. I like that all the parts of this deck help move towards the same goal of taking the opponent from 20 to 0 in (mostly) 2-3 damage increments. Spell Queller might die, but if it makes the opponent spend mana on removal instead of further development and gets in for 4 damage, it seems like closing out the game with Colonnades and burn spells is much more feasible than it is for our deck, where it seems like we spend nearly all of our resources keeping the board clear and defending Nahiri, and if that plan falls through, are trying the 20-to-0 plan on turn 10 instead of turn 1. I also like that it at least tries to keep the opponent off-guard a bit more than we do. The ability to block with a Snapcaster, Restoration Angel the Snapcaster to blank the attack and re-cast a spell is a line of play we just don’t have. Our deck says "Go ahead and attack. I’ll kill it if I have a Bolt / Path; otherwise, I take damage", so there’s (usually) no reason not to attack. I fear that Jeskai Harbinger is sometimes a bit too predictable without the raw power to back it up (unlike, say, Miracles in Legacy, which is relatively predictable but strong enough that it doesn't really matter). A deck like this seems to pose more challenges to the opponent. Though of course all of this is a bit at odds with the first paragraph. If Fatal Push is widely adopted (as it probably will be) this build may not be as good, even though Queller, Restoration Angel, and Clique all require revolt to be active.
Anyway, thoughts / comments / etc. on all of this?
* * *
For whatever it's worth, my current list is pretty similar to previous lists, but I’m going to try changing one Remand for a second main-deck Anger of the Gods the next time I play (which, due to vacation, won’t be until after the B&R announcement, so this may change yet again). I love Remand, and want to play as much countermagic as I can, but I wonder if a second sweeper in the main is just better to try to help the Dredge matchup, but also just to really shore up the matchup against other creature-based aggro decks (already a strength of the deck, but I find losing to ‘good’ matchups very frustrating. Decklist hidden below:
I think fatal push is a complete non-worry for this deck.
Sure, colonnade gets hit, but nahiri is already our primary wincon.
Anyone playing push is cutting it first, no questions asked, I think.
Negate isn't the worst thing to play, but fatal push shouldn't even make the list of reasons to mainboard it.
I've played against boggemes' list a lot, and while its certainly neat, it just does different things.
The major reason I don't play it is because I simply don't the like the style as much, and some of the cards it uses (ex I'm really not a fan of queller, etc) but the deck is fine. That being said, Nahiri feels much more foolproof to me. The thing I love about jeskai nahiri is that the whole deck feels so streamlined to me. While you like the singular gameplan of jeskai flash, I love the total protect-the-queen strategy of nahiri.
I usually build my lists more all-in on this fact, some of my older lists played mainboard timely, none of that cryptic command nonsense, etc. I played 2 mainboard angers long before dredge became so popular, etc, because nahiri offers so much to low to the ground jeskai control.
While flash gives your opponent more of a pause, and has more "tricky" interactions, I personally would much rather just take control and throw spaghetti around, but I'm less inclined to playing creatures in this format.
That all being said, I don't think fatal push is going to be quite as format warping as it might seem. Blade splicer, finks, clique, snap, etc, are all still going to be good.
Spell pierce's stock might be going up, as might cards like boros charm or cloudshift if you wanted to get cute.
I'm sure jeskai flash is going to be just as good as it has been.
Better perhaps, because it tends to have a better matchups against decks like tron or valakut that will likely rise back up a bit post-push.
I've moved over to a build with 2 wall of omens and 3 restoration angel to replace the nahiri package, and really like it so far. Allows us to have to tap out less, and also gives us a lot more power to argue in combat to profitable block things out of nowhere.
Downside are in the top deck wars, when a planes walker in huge, vs blood moon, and the oops I win factor. Not sure which is overall better at the moment though.
The downside is that we've tried that strategy many times and it has not worked for a long time. Whilst the deck in its current form isn't as popular it is still far stronger than it used to be. Run Nahiri.
I've moved over to a build with 2 wall of omens and 3 restoration angel to replace the nahiri package, and really like it so far. Allows us to have to tap out less, and also gives us a lot more power to argue in combat to profitable block things out of nowhere.
Downside are in the top deck wars, when a planes walker in huge, vs blood moon, and the oops I win factor. Not sure which is overall better at the moment though.
The downside is that we've tried that strategy many times and it has not worked for a long time. Whilst the deck in its current form isn't as popular it is still far stronger than it used to be. Run Nahiri.
I scratch my head at the wall of omens strategy. If you want card advantage run Ancestral Vision. I don't want to tap out of T2 to play a small wall.
Not a Nahiri pilot myself (more because of lack of cards than lack of desire), but I agree on Fatal Push not being something to stress out over. The top black decks are for the most part AFAIK thinking of running 0-2 Push (maybe more in Abzan I guess, or pulling a Path to Exile for it) because most of them are already built around heaps of good, cheap removal. The black decks that have historically lacked good cheap removal are the ones that will get the biggest boost. But that's not really a problem IMO because the lack of good cheap removal meant they weren't good decks anyways (your Esper, your UB Fae, etc.).
Don't think of it like facing off vs. Jund, except now Jund also has 4 Fatal Push. Think of it as facing off against Sultai every once in a while instead of Jund.
Private Mod Note
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
My only "worry" about AER is that Fatal Push might just make Grixis the better control deck now, and I might just switch to it. Black has gotten a lot better over the last few sets and my only real gripe with it now is that their wincons are subpar
For Jeskai I still think Nahiri is by far the best wincon because of how broad her applications are, only needing a few extra sideboard slots devoted to wincons to defeat the majority of the metagame. Every time I try a build without Nahiri I find myself annoyed with how weak my wincons are and that I wish I could filter these lategame topdecks a bit better
My only "worry" about AER is that Fatal Push might just make Grixis the better control deck now, and I might just switch to it. Black has gotten a lot better over the last few sets and my only real gripe with it now is that their wincons are subpar
For Jeskai I still think Nahiri is by far the best wincon because of how broad her applications are, only needing a few extra sideboard slots devoted to wincons to defeat the majority of the metagame. Every time I try a build without Nahiri I find myself annoyed with how weak my wincons are and that I wish I could filter these lategame topdecks a bit better
It's not a huge upgrade. It's a great card that many decks will run but it IS situational. There will be plenty of situations where opponent can't kill something he needs to kill because of the drawback. I don't know that it's much better than Terminate (in modern), in Legacy and Vintage this card is insane.
Can Ancestral Vision save you life points by blocking for you?
4-toughness is not "small."
I agree with that I'm saying I don't have trouble with creature decks attacking me on the ground. Wall doesn't offer me any upgrades in creature matches. I'd rather use a Remand or Mana Leak on a threat instead of playing wall, facing a 4/5 Tarmogoyf and hoping to find a path when I could have just suspended visions on T1 and countered the goyf.
I'm saying this strategy has been done for years and it's pretty weak against a lot of creature decks you are trying to block, have fun against Tasigur, Angler, Tarmo, Ravine, and whatever else you would have been able to counter had you not tapped down on T2 for a 0/4 wall.
My only "worry" about AER is that Fatal Push might just make Grixis the better control deck now, and I might just switch to it. Black has gotten a lot better over the last few sets and my only real gripe with it now is that their wincons are subpar
For Jeskai I still think Nahiri is by far the best wincon because of how broad her applications are, only needing a few extra sideboard slots devoted to wincons to defeat the majority of the metagame. Every time I try a build without Nahiri I find myself annoyed with how weak my wincons are and that I wish I could filter these lategame topdecks a bit better
It's not a huge upgrade. It's a great card that many decks will run but it IS situational. There will be plenty of situations where opponent can't kill something he needs to kill because of the drawback. I don't know that it's much better than Terminate (in modern), in Legacy and Vintage this card is insane.
I think's it's a pretty significant upgrade over Terminate, and I expect it to be played as a 4-of. They also recently got Collective Brutality to aid in their awful burn matchup, and I'm curious to see whether Yahenni's Expertise will be worthwhile.
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I finally picked up an Elspeth, Sun's Champion in a trade. Not having played the card before... What matchups do you bring it in? Jund/Abzan seem like good choices, but at 6 mana, I'm not sure what other situations it's good in.
Before New Year's I finally had a chance to take part in a medium (to small) size Modern event. There were 22 players and we played 4 rounds and I tied for 1st (with two other players) at 4-0.
My list was pretty much whatever the last thing I posted in here was. I can go into detail later if it matters to anyone.
Round One vs. Naya Burn
I saw this player playing on the side before the event and assumed he was playing the same deck I saw before (which he was).
I mulligan'd Arid Mesa, Celestial Colonnade, Island, Remand, Remand, Vendilion Clique, Nahiri, the Harbinger. This is a hand I would keep in the dark but double Remand and 3-4 mana spells seemed likely to lead to a quick death.
Luckily my opponent also mulligan'd.
I kept Hallowed Fountain, flooded Strand, Ancestral Vision, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, Snapcaster Mage and scry'd Serum Visions to the top. I suspended Ancestral on T1 and Helix'd a Monastery Swiftspear on T2 and was able to run opponent out of gas after snaping back helix. In G2 I actually lost after getting hit w T2, T3 Boros Charm, and Skull crack on a crucial Lightning Helix. G3 I resolved Timely Reinforcements against two Goblin Guides for full value and then snapped it back!
1-0
Round Two vs. Dredge
I kept a normal looking hand and he went crazy on T3. I had Anger of the Gods but after that too many dead Mana Leaks and he ended up killing me. The game was close, though. G2 I mull'd to 5 where I found 2xRest in Peace, Hallowed Fountain, Mountain, Lightning Helix. He was slow out of the gate and my first RIP only got two creatures and then he Abrupt Decay'd it. My second one stuck. It seems he made a mistake, though. After the match I found out he could have Collective Brutality while I was tapped out to take RIP number two and then Decay later and work up to dredging again. Instead, he allowed the second one to resolve because he wanted to use his Neonate. G3 I never drew a RIP and I kept seven because the hand was gas. Sacred Foundry, Island, Arid Mesa, Anger of the Gods, Anger of the Gods, Serum Visions, Serum Visions. He ended up taking an Anger on T1 and playing "Mom Hug" on T2 while I sculpted my draws. (Lands to the bottom) PTE, Snap, Snap to the top. Long story short he got decked and Nahiri -2 was activated 4 times in that game.
2-0
Round Three vs. Grixis Delver
G1 My opponent kept a one-lander and he played a Young Pyromancer on T4 and I followed up with Nahiri which ended up valuing into a second Nahiri which found Spaghetti. G2 Was long and grindy and he hit me with two really good K-Commands! and was able to bolt me out. G3 was also long but he flooded toward the end after I path'd both of his Tasigurs. And I beat down with Colonnades.
3-0
Round Four vs. Merfolk
This opponent knew what I was on. But I didn't know what he was on. I kept a solid counter spell hand but lost to a sweet aether vial hand plus normal lord package. G2 I was able to keep him off lords and topdeck'd a Tec Edge not to die to Mutavault and then pulled ahead with a Helix and killed him with Clique after responding to his vial activation to "steal" the Master of waves!! G3 My opponet mull'd to 5 and I had a couple removal spells and then Nahiri = )
Anyway, just 4 rounds but thinks felt good. Faced a nice range of match-ups and was challenged in all four matches. Actually I had a lot of fun trying to figure out sequencing and whatnot.
Hope everyone else is having good results!
That's right. I guess he shouldn't have been bemoaning it as a mistake then. = )
I have also found a one off Logic Knot to be a powerhouse.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
On a related subject, have any of the experienced Jeskai Harbinger players experimented with the more Flash/Tempo-oriented builds, and how they compare to Jeskai Harbinger? (For an example, see Kyle Boggemes’ list at http://www.gatheringmagic.com/kyleboggemes-12152016-a-format-for-everyone/) If Modern continues the way it’s going (relatively little interaction / removal spells / etc.), it seems like this build has some merit to it: Blade Splicer and Restoration Angel both defend and attack, and Spell Queller helps chip in for some damage and disrupt the opponent long enough to close out the game with Angels, Colonnades, and burn. I like that all the parts of this deck help move towards the same goal of taking the opponent from 20 to 0 in (mostly) 2-3 damage increments. Spell Queller might die, but if it makes the opponent spend mana on removal instead of further development and gets in for 4 damage, it seems like closing out the game with Colonnades and burn spells is much more feasible than it is for our deck, where it seems like we spend nearly all of our resources keeping the board clear and defending Nahiri, and if that plan falls through, are trying the 20-to-0 plan on turn 10 instead of turn 1. I also like that it at least tries to keep the opponent off-guard a bit more than we do. The ability to block with a Snapcaster, Restoration Angel the Snapcaster to blank the attack and re-cast a spell is a line of play we just don’t have. Our deck says "Go ahead and attack. I’ll kill it if I have a Bolt / Path; otherwise, I take damage", so there’s (usually) no reason not to attack. I fear that Jeskai Harbinger is sometimes a bit too predictable without the raw power to back it up (unlike, say, Miracles in Legacy, which is relatively predictable but strong enough that it doesn't really matter). A deck like this seems to pose more challenges to the opponent. Though of course all of this is a bit at odds with the first paragraph. If Fatal Push is widely adopted (as it probably will be) this build may not be as good, even though Queller, Restoration Angel, and Clique all require revolt to be active.
Anyway, thoughts / comments / etc. on all of this?
* * *
For whatever it's worth, my current list is pretty similar to previous lists, but I’m going to try changing one Remand for a second main-deck Anger of the Gods the next time I play (which, due to vacation, won’t be until after the B&R announcement, so this may change yet again). I love Remand, and want to play as much countermagic as I can, but I wonder if a second sweeper in the main is just better to try to help the Dredge matchup, but also just to really shore up the matchup against other creature-based aggro decks (already a strength of the deck, but I find losing to ‘good’ matchups very frustrating. Decklist hidden below:
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
Creature (6)
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Instant (18)
1 Cryptic Command
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
2 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
3 Remand
2 Spell Snare
Sorcery (9)
3 Ancestral Vision
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Serum Visions
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Celestial Purge
1 Dispel
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Negate
2 Rest in Peace
1 Stony Silence
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Wear // Tear
Sure, colonnade gets hit, but nahiri is already our primary wincon.
Anyone playing push is cutting it first, no questions asked, I think.
Negate isn't the worst thing to play, but fatal push shouldn't even make the list of reasons to mainboard it.
I've played against boggemes' list a lot, and while its certainly neat, it just does different things.
The major reason I don't play it is because I simply don't the like the style as much, and some of the cards it uses (ex I'm really not a fan of queller, etc) but the deck is fine. That being said, Nahiri feels much more foolproof to me. The thing I love about jeskai nahiri is that the whole deck feels so streamlined to me. While you like the singular gameplan of jeskai flash, I love the total protect-the-queen strategy of nahiri.
I usually build my lists more all-in on this fact, some of my older lists played mainboard timely, none of that cryptic command nonsense, etc. I played 2 mainboard angers long before dredge became so popular, etc, because nahiri offers so much to low to the ground jeskai control.
While flash gives your opponent more of a pause, and has more "tricky" interactions, I personally would much rather just take control and throw spaghetti around, but I'm less inclined to playing creatures in this format.
That all being said, I don't think fatal push is going to be quite as format warping as it might seem. Blade splicer, finks, clique, snap, etc, are all still going to be good.
Spell pierce's stock might be going up, as might cards like boros charm or cloudshift if you wanted to get cute.
I'm sure jeskai flash is going to be just as good as it has been.
Better perhaps, because it tends to have a better matchups against decks like tron or valakut that will likely rise back up a bit post-push.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
The downside is that we've tried that strategy many times and it has not worked for a long time. Whilst the deck in its current form isn't as popular it is still far stronger than it used to be. Run Nahiri.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
I scratch my head at the wall of omens strategy. If you want card advantage run Ancestral Vision. I don't want to tap out of T2 to play a small wall.
4-toughness is not "small."
Don't think of it like facing off vs. Jund, except now Jund also has 4 Fatal Push. Think of it as facing off against Sultai every once in a while instead of Jund.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
For Jeskai I still think Nahiri is by far the best wincon because of how broad her applications are, only needing a few extra sideboard slots devoted to wincons to defeat the majority of the metagame. Every time I try a build without Nahiri I find myself annoyed with how weak my wincons are and that I wish I could filter these lategame topdecks a bit better
It's not a huge upgrade. It's a great card that many decks will run but it IS situational. There will be plenty of situations where opponent can't kill something he needs to kill because of the drawback. I don't know that it's much better than Terminate (in modern), in Legacy and Vintage this card is insane.
I agree with that I'm saying I don't have trouble with creature decks attacking me on the ground. Wall doesn't offer me any upgrades in creature matches. I'd rather use a Remand or Mana Leak on a threat instead of playing wall, facing a 4/5 Tarmogoyf and hoping to find a path when I could have just suspended visions on T1 and countered the goyf.
I'm saying this strategy has been done for years and it's pretty weak against a lot of creature decks you are trying to block, have fun against Tasigur, Angler, Tarmo, Ravine, and whatever else you would have been able to counter had you not tapped down on T2 for a 0/4 wall.
I think's it's a pretty significant upgrade over Terminate, and I expect it to be played as a 4-of. They also recently got Collective Brutality to aid in their awful burn matchup, and I'm curious to see whether Yahenni's Expertise will be worthwhile.