@TomCourtenay
The list looks light on win-cons so I agree with Bearscape on everything he suggests. You could try 3 Snapcaster / 1 Torrential Gearhulk and see how you like that set-up (Gearhulk weak vs. K-command, strong vs. Eldrazi, Tasigur, Angler).
I also noticed that since you cut your Electrolyze from the deck you seem vulnerable to tokens... if you feel that way you could also try to fit in an Izzet Staticaster or Engineered Explosives in the Sideboard.
If you are running 4x Main-Board spreading seas might it be worth-while to test 2x Tectonic Edge instead of 2x Ghost Quarter? That way you can actually attack your opponents mana base instead of letting them fetch for basics.
Yes, I agree, it's too light on win conditions. I'll cut 1 Helix and add 1 Gearhulk for a 3/1 split. I'd like to say with 3 Colonnade and 2 GQ because I need more land destruction in my meta. I might cut 1 counterspell for Secure the Wastes. Maybe something like :
I also noticed that since you cut your Electrolyze from the deck you seem vulnerable to tokens... if you feel that way you could also try to fit in an Izzet Staticaster or Engineered Explosives in the Sideboard... or heck even the main-board.
If you are running 4x Main-Board spreading seas might it be worth-while to test 2x Tectonic Edge instead of 2x Ghost Quarter? That way you can actually attack your opponents mana base instead of letting them fetch for basics.
For tokens, I plan to use the extra burn I have and make sure to keep the key cards at bay with countermagic (or even tap them all with Cryptic). I face a lot of Affinity, but my plan is to board in 2 Anger of the Gods for game 2-3 in order to play it out correctly. Often, Electrolyze is either great or meh : I use it most of the times as a 2 to the face and draw 1, so it's not that efficient. I could have 1 Izzet in the side though (but I don't know what to cut!)
About Tec Edge, my main plan is cutting an opponent from key colors : I face Tron and Storm a lot, so messing up a tron land early is really key for me. Same thing with Storm, attacking their dual early and using Seas on them. They usually have only 1 Mountain, so countering the mana that goes of won't be an issue.
I'll give this one a shot and be back with comments ! Thanks!
Looks lighter on card-draw than a Wafo list but with more 1v1 burn and land denial. Let us know how it goes!
Just tested today and it feels a lot smoother! I struggled against Affinity (1-2), but I wasn't completely dead after 3 turns. Game was competitive, the deck could turn the corner quickly (burn does so much). 2 essential things for Affinity :
1) Denying Etched Champion.
2) Destroying Nexus to avoid 10 Infect on turn 3 with Ravager.
So that worked, I'm glad. I wrecked Tron : 8 pieces of land destruction for game 2 and 3 was way too much. Crumble is a bit slow, but when it works, it's great. I needed to deal with a threat on the board that landed quickly in turn 3 (Wurmcoil), but Path took care of it.
Storm is still tricky, but Seas helps locking them out of red. Just played one game and won it. So in all, good improvement on the deck list with more Burn and pro activity also.
Electrolyze is great against Affinity but not necessary. The nature of this deck is always powerful against Affinity. I've never lost the matchup and no Electrolyze mainboard doesn't seem like too big of a loss if the pilot knows what they're doing. There's a lot of splash damage the sideboard with Staticaster and Anger of the Gods. Engineered Explosives is perhaps the sideboard card with the most splash damage against random decks.
I'm having a lot of issues fighting UW control with my Nahiri list. I feel like I want to try going under them as they are better going long, but lack a real clock to get that going. Maybe I should try to cram two geists in my sideboard again
I'm having a lot of issues fighting UW control with my Nahiri list. I feel like I want to try going under them as they are better going long, but lack a real clock to get that going. Maybe I should try to cram two geists in my sideboard again
It's a bad match-up. You need to have a lot of tools post-board. Cliques, Geists, spell quellers, dispel, etc are good.
I'm having a lot of issues fighting UW control with my Nahiri list. I feel like I want to try going under them as they are better going long, but lack a real clock to get that going. Maybe I should try to cram two geists in my sideboard again
It's really what's getting to me sometimes, not having enough clock. Burn gets me close, but I'd like to slam a couple of creatures to close some games out. Spell Queller seems good, but he doesn't fit in my meta too well and the Saheeli / Felidar combo doesn't appel to me. I'm old fashionned and the Kiki/Resto would appeal more, but it's not really where we are going now anyways. My guess is that 2 Clique or 2 Geist main would be enough to apply the pressure needed
@ Electrolyze : I didn't miss the card at all. Having 2 Supreme Verdict main is enough and post-board, it gets ugly for them with 2 Stony, 2 Anger and Wear//Tear. Spot removal is good for important creatures, Electrolyze deals with pesky 0/1 or 0/2. Usefull, but not necessary.
Yeah, your list seems much better tuned to beat UW. I run only 6 burn spells, and without critical mass burn is just kind of awkward to draw against them.
I'm wondering what matchups you bring the copycat combo in for? Just generally when they take out most removal? And why three Celestial Purges?
I really like this idea a lot! So would you recommend the full play set of the combo for our bad matches? Would it be alright to do 3 and 3 since we have several cantrips?
I completely agree on having more Celestial Purge. I've been running two in my sideboard and it's been great.
Lack of a clock in any reasonable way, lack of pressure, is what leads to UW walking over Nahiri based decks. You have to pressure with Snap/Bolt very early to get them to expend resources or they will just card advantage you.
I think generally in Magic if you want to do something you're better off going completely in that direction instead of trying to do different things.
You want the transformative sideboard? Then, run the full 8. In some of these MUs we don't have that much time to find the combo pieces, running less copies of them means you will fall short more often in finding them before it's too late.
But we're not completely without any defense against some of those decks. That makes me wonder about running so many Felidar Guardians. That card seems pretty lackluster without a build-around scenario. I know it can be used with Snapcaster Mage, but I can't imagine that being overwhelmingly useful.
Not sure that this is quite the right place for the deck, but I'll give you my two cents anyway. I think 9 creatures is too high and I'd cut the clique. Sphinx's rev seems too expensive for the game plan of spewing off spells in a mana-efficient manner. Maybe you want Mishra's Bauble instead?
Electrolyze might be good, but I think that 0-2 is probably better than 3-4. Seems like an expensive way to churn out tokens.
Just remember that the reason that Mentor is good in Vintage is that there are a lot of free/cheap ways to trigger it, such as moxen, gush, ponder, brainstorm, preordain, probe, etc.
I've often run Monastery Mentor as a 1-of finisher in Jeskai Control and I've liked it quite a lot. Running 4x is different though, it requires a build-around. Cards that might make 4x Monastery Mentor playable in a modern Jeskai shell;
Mishra's Bauble
Dispel / Spell Pierce / Spell Snare (any 1CMC counter to protect mentor when dropping on t4)
Mutagenic Growth
Noxious Revival
Manamorphose
Thought Scour (instant speed cantrip/pump)
Think Twice
However these cards don't lead to 'control' very well, more towards 'tempo / midrange' jeskai.
I think generally in Magic if you want to do something you're better off going completely in that direction instead of trying to do different things.
You want the transformative sideboard? Then, run the full 8. In some of these MUs we don't have that much time to find the combo pieces, running less copies of them means you will fall short more often in finding them before it's too late.
But we're not completely without any defense against some of those decks. That makes me wonder about running so many Felidar Guardians. That card seems pretty lackluster without a build-around scenario. I know it can be used with Snapcaster Mage, but I can't imagine that being overwhelmingly useful.
Wow! Way too many slots. Just jam more geists and cliques in the sideboard for those bad match-ups.
A trans-formative side-board necessarily takes up a lot of slots I guess. I like trans-formative boards but at the moment would prefer to do as suggested - jam more cliques and geists.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
I tend to not be a big fan of transformative sideboards, I think they usually look much bettet on paper than they turn out to be and I dislike the 50-50 guessing game that game 3 becomes. However the logic behind going from hard control to copycat is really interesting, especially since theAller's list makes up in the lost sideboard space with his mainboard; 4 verdicts and 4 cryptics should basically crush any fair matchup
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The list looks light on win-cons so I agree with Bearscape on everything he suggests. You could try 3 Snapcaster / 1 Torrential Gearhulk and see how you like that set-up (Gearhulk weak vs. K-command, strong vs. Eldrazi, Tasigur, Angler).
I also noticed that since you cut your Electrolyze from the deck you seem vulnerable to tokens... if you feel that way you could also try to fit in an Izzet Staticaster or Engineered Explosives in the Sideboard.
If you are running 4x Main-Board spreading seas might it be worth-while to test 2x Tectonic Edge instead of 2x Ghost Quarter? That way you can actually attack your opponents mana base instead of letting them fetch for basics.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Torrential Gearhulk
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Ajani Vengeant
Spells (30)
4 Cryptic Command
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
4 Spreading Seas
2 Lightning Helix
2 Logic Knot
1 Mana Leak
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Negate
1 Secure the Wastes
1 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Crumble to Dust
2 Dispel
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Counterflux
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Wear // Tear
@0oSunnYo0
For tokens, I plan to use the extra burn I have and make sure to keep the key cards at bay with countermagic (or even tap them all with Cryptic). I face a lot of Affinity, but my plan is to board in 2 Anger of the Gods for game 2-3 in order to play it out correctly. Often, Electrolyze is either great or meh : I use it most of the times as a 2 to the face and draw 1, so it's not that efficient. I could have 1 Izzet in the side though (but I don't know what to cut!)
About Tec Edge, my main plan is cutting an opponent from key colors : I face Tron and Storm a lot, so messing up a tron land early is really key for me. Same thing with Storm, attacking their dual early and using Seas on them. They usually have only 1 Mountain, so countering the mana that goes of won't be an issue.
I'll give this one a shot and be back with comments ! Thanks!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
Just tested today and it feels a lot smoother! I struggled against Affinity (1-2), but I wasn't completely dead after 3 turns. Game was competitive, the deck could turn the corner quickly (burn does so much). 2 essential things for Affinity :
1) Denying Etched Champion.
2) Destroying Nexus to avoid 10 Infect on turn 3 with Ravager.
So that worked, I'm glad. I wrecked Tron : 8 pieces of land destruction for game 2 and 3 was way too much. Crumble is a bit slow, but when it works, it's great. I needed to deal with a threat on the board that landed quickly in turn 3 (Wurmcoil), but Path took care of it.
Storm is still tricky, but Seas helps locking them out of red. Just played one game and won it. So in all, good improvement on the deck list with more Burn and pro activity also.
Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
It's a bad match-up. You need to have a lot of tools post-board. Cliques, Geists, spell quellers, dispel, etc are good.
It's really what's getting to me sometimes, not having enough clock. Burn gets me close, but I'd like to slam a couple of creatures to close some games out. Spell Queller seems good, but he doesn't fit in my meta too well and the Saheeli / Felidar combo doesn't appel to me. I'm old fashionned and the Kiki/Resto would appeal more, but it's not really where we are going now anyways. My guess is that 2 Clique or 2 Geist main would be enough to apply the pressure needed
@ Electrolyze : I didn't miss the card at all. Having 2 Supreme Verdict main is enough and post-board, it gets ugly for them with 2 Stony, 2 Anger and Wear//Tear. Spot removal is good for important creatures, Electrolyze deals with pesky 0/1 or 0/2. Usefull, but not necessary.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
I'm wondering what matchups you bring the copycat combo in for? Just generally when they take out most removal? And why three Celestial Purges?
I completely agree on having more Celestial Purge. I've been running two in my sideboard and it's been great.
Spirits
But we're not completely without any defense against some of those decks. That makes me wonder about running so many Felidar Guardians. That card seems pretty lackluster without a build-around scenario. I know it can be used with Snapcaster Mage, but I can't imagine that being overwhelmingly useful.
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Serum Visions
1x Censor
2x Cryptic Command
3x Electrolyze
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Helix
2x Logic Knot
2x Mana Leak
4x Path to Exile
2x Remand
2x Spell Snare
1x Sphinx's Revelation
1x Ghost Quarter
3x Glacial Fortress
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Celestial Purge
1 Dispel
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Negate
2 Runed Halo
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Vendilion Clique
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
Not sure that this is quite the right place for the deck, but I'll give you my two cents anyway. I think 9 creatures is too high and I'd cut the clique. Sphinx's rev seems too expensive for the game plan of spewing off spells in a mana-efficient manner. Maybe you want Mishra's Bauble instead?
Electrolyze might be good, but I think that 0-2 is probably better than 3-4. Seems like an expensive way to churn out tokens.
Just remember that the reason that Mentor is good in Vintage is that there are a lot of free/cheap ways to trigger it, such as moxen, gush, ponder, brainstorm, preordain, probe, etc.
Mishra's Bauble
Dispel / Spell Pierce / Spell Snare (any 1CMC counter to protect mentor when dropping on t4)
Mutagenic Growth
Noxious Revival
Manamorphose
Thought Scour (instant speed cantrip/pump)
Think Twice
However these cards don't lead to 'control' very well, more towards 'tempo / midrange' jeskai.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
Wow! Way too many slots. Just jam more geists and cliques in the sideboard for those bad match-ups.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza