Opt has been disappointing in my testing. The main reason we started playing Serum Visions in the first place(we didn't use to when jeskai geist broke out in 2013-2014) was to make sure getting the mana right, and Opt just doesn't do a good job at that. Keeping one-landers with Opt is a very different thing than keeping one-landers with Serum Visions. I had hoped Opt could be kinda like the modern substitute for Brainstorm, but it just feels too weak.
I wouldn't keep one handers even with serum visions.
Interesting. I've been having the opposit result. Opt + serum visions has been great. Yea I get manascrewed occasionally, but that only happens when I take super greedy 1-2 mana hands (which idealistically are not our best keeps anyways).
To the people above me who prefer serum visions:
What decks do you typically find yourself up against? I've found the answer to which you prefer can depend heavily on your local meta and the decks you face. One of the reasons I really liked the 4-3 split.
Tonight I am play testing the following configuration: 2 cryptic command, 2 spell snare, 3 logic knot (going down to 7 counters) and 6 cantrips (3 serum visions, 3 opts) and 23 lands for 2 electrolyze.
I really liked my electrolyzless build with 8 counters and 7 cantrips, but I want to experiment with it.
Had my best finish yet! 3-0-1 at modern FNM. Beat 8-rack, Grixis Control, and Tron. Then intentional drawed with D&T.
A few key insights: 6 cantrips (3 serum visions, 3 opts) felt amazing. I still prefer opt (there was several times I wished serum visions was opt) but I think 6 cantrips might be the optimal number. I will keep experimenting, but tonight felt really good with the following threshhold.
I'm going to a 1k tomorrow and cutting one electrolyze for the third cryptic. Having three cryptics is more important than a second electrolyze.
I too have had success with a 3/3 split of opt and serum. While I'm not sure that that confit is 100% correct I think that 6 1 mana cantrips is the sweet spot, though I'm sure some pro like Harlan is going to prove most of us wrong lol. I just feel cutting things like electrolyze and cryptics is not where you want to be since the cantrips will just spin out tires without finding relevant interaction.
On another note I've been seeing a lot of people switching to 2 sulfur falls over the 2 spirebluff canals. Where is everyone on that?
I too have had success with a 3/3 split of opt and serum. While I'm not sure that that confit is 100% correct I think that 6 1 mana cantrips is the sweet spot, though I'm sure some pro like Harlan is going to prove most of us wrong lol. I just feel cutting things like electrolyze and cryptics is not where you want to be since the cantrips will just spin out tires without finding relevant interaction.
On another note I've been seeing a lot of people switching to 2 sulfur falls over the 2 spirebluff canals. Where is everyone on that?
I've never liked electrolyze. I think going down to 1 is fine. I don't really want to cut a counter spell or a lightning helix, so I don't really have any other options.
As far as canal vs falls, I've always preferred falls. But considering going to canal due to increased cantrips
If you're playing the geist lists you need some electrolyzes. You need some amount of burn density and Elecrolyze lets you go face without card disadvantage. I'm plaing 4 bolt 3 helix 2 lyze and already think that is pushing the low end
Ok, I played the following 8-cantrip version at my LGS yesterday going 3-1. I won against Lantern Control (2-0), Grixis Delver (2-1) and Bring to Light Scapeshift (2-0) and lost a very close match to Eldrazi Tron (0-2), both of the games I should had won but I made major mistakes and it's all on me not figuring out the correct lines.
Overall the deck felt super solid. I was fine with the 8 cantrips and 22 lands. My only problem was that with this land configuration fetching was a bit tricky. I will cut an Arid Mesa and brin a Steam Vents. Opt feels really good, it was never a burden. Sure you can't keep 1-landers with opt in the same way you do with Serum Visions, but that is something that ONLY SV allows you to do anyway, so it's not a problem. Digging for my SB cards with the 8-cantrips was also pretty good. I am not sure if I'll stick with the 22 lands, I might go to 23, but for now, it didn't really show any issues.
I scrubbed out of the modern 1k.
Had abysmal matches... out of 40 people I had to play the only two eldrazi tron players. Plus the only abzan player ._.
Yea, tbh, I'm not sure what the major problem with abzan is. Lingering souls is annoying, but we definitely have the tools to beat it. A lot of people are low on card advantage, which makes it a bit tougher, but wrse case, its still probanly 50-50.
Uh yeah. It's most definitely an unfavorable match up. Discard spells, Liliana of the Veil and Lingering Souls are all bad for Jeskai's health. Having Fatal Push and Path to Exile is also a problem. So how is it even in the realm of possibly being good? Geist of Saint Traft is about the only positive for Jeskai for aggression, and it's not usually decent against Abzan.
Abzan is almost universally a bad MU for jeskai regardless of builds
If Lingering Souls is played right, ie one half at a time, it is incredibly taxing on us. Many Abzan players overextend however and get 4-6 tokens blown up at once
I've done some testing now and I'll bite the bullet to switch over to a geist list for the meantime. Although Nahiri has some better matchups (mostly UW control and eldrazi) geist just has a lot of free random wins
Opt has been great for me, and I think I will stick with 4 opt 3 sv, mostly because eot snap opt is an excellent way to get pressure going without having to go shields down
I've done some testing now and I'll bite the bullet to switch over to a geist list for the meantime. Although Nahiri has some better matchups (mostly UW control and eldrazi) geist just has a lot of free random wins
Opt has been great for me, and I think I will stick with 4 opt 3 sv, mostly because eot snap opt is an excellent way to get pressure going without having to go shields down
Exactly that. You can, by chance get a random win with Nahiri but in general, sometimes a Geist just runs with the game and that's that. And it is not an insignificant percentage of the time. Also gives a better game against random decks.
Opt is indeed great. How many lands are you planning to play?
Im currently on 22 but I feel I want half a land extra. You do want 3 colonnades as they are needed to close out many games, otherwise 2 colonnade with 22 lands would have probably been fine. I used 2x spirebluff canal originally but 2x sulfur falls ended up feeling better. I might want one extra island (going to 3) as you fetch for basic island a lot
IMO, esper is a better draw-go deck right now, but the reason the geist version is more popular is because its more proactive.
In general, draw-go decks aren't terribly good in this format, because if you just build a deck full of answers, theres still gonna be some decks you won't be able to consistently beat (depending on your build, eldrazi, tron, storm, ad nauseum, dredge, ponza, etc, can all be pretty bad).
Geist is pretty capable of killing people, and coupled with a lot more burn, can give you wins a draw-go deck won't get.
Just out of curiosity, would you consider cutting geist for clique, or resto, or some other flash threat to play 100% at instant speed?
Obviously, geist is very good (probably objectively better than whatever you're replacing him with) but being able to play totally reactively while still playing a deck capable of actually ending a game is very appealing.
I wouldn't keep one handers even with serum visions.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
What decks do you typically find yourself up against? I've found the answer to which you prefer can depend heavily on your local meta and the decks you face. One of the reasons I really liked the 4-3 split.
Tonight I am play testing the following configuration: 2 cryptic command, 2 spell snare, 3 logic knot (going down to 7 counters) and 6 cantrips (3 serum visions, 3 opts) and 23 lands for 2 electrolyze.
I really liked my electrolyzless build with 8 counters and 7 cantrips, but I want to experiment with it.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
A few key insights: 6 cantrips (3 serum visions, 3 opts) felt amazing. I still prefer opt (there was several times I wished serum visions was opt) but I think 6 cantrips might be the optimal number. I will keep experimenting, but tonight felt really good with the following threshhold.
I'm going to a 1k tomorrow and cutting one electrolyze for the third cryptic. Having three cryptics is more important than a second electrolyze.
3x Celestial Colonnade
4x Flooded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
3x Sulfur Falls
3x Serum Visions
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
3x Logic Knot
3x Opt
4x Path to Exile
2x Spell Snare
2x Electrolyze
Creature (11)
3x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Spell Queller
2x Disdainful Stroke
2x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Negate
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
On another note I've been seeing a lot of people switching to 2 sulfur falls over the 2 spirebluff canals. Where is everyone on that?
I've never liked electrolyze. I think going down to 1 is fine. I don't really want to cut a counter spell or a lightning helix, so I don't really have any other options.
As far as canal vs falls, I've always preferred falls. But considering going to canal due to increased cantrips
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Spell Queller
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Opt
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
1 Spell Snare
2 Lightning Helix
2 Logic Knot
1 Mana Leak
2 Electrolyze
3 Cryptic Command
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Spirebluff Canal
1 Steam Vents
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Dispel
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Runed Halo
1 Izzet Statickaster
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Celestial Purge
1 Gideon Jura
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wear // Tear
Overall the deck felt super solid. I was fine with the 8 cantrips and 22 lands. My only problem was that with this land configuration fetching was a bit tricky. I will cut an Arid Mesa and brin a Steam Vents. Opt feels really good, it was never a burden. Sure you can't keep 1-landers with opt in the same way you do with Serum Visions, but that is something that ONLY SV allows you to do anyway, so it's not a problem. Digging for my SB cards with the 8-cantrips was also pretty good. I am not sure if I'll stick with the 22 lands, I might go to 23, but for now, it didn't really show any issues.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Had abysmal matches... out of 40 people I had to play the only two eldrazi tron players. Plus the only abzan player ._.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
But both games he drew multiple lilis and multiple tireless trackers.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
If Lingering Souls is played right, ie one half at a time, it is incredibly taxing on us. Many Abzan players overextend however and get 4-6 tokens blown up at once
Opt has been great for me, and I think I will stick with 4 opt 3 sv, mostly because eot snap opt is an excellent way to get pressure going without having to go shields down
Opt is indeed great. How many lands are you planning to play?
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
In general, draw-go decks aren't terribly good in this format, because if you just build a deck full of answers, theres still gonna be some decks you won't be able to consistently beat (depending on your build, eldrazi, tron, storm, ad nauseum, dredge, ponza, etc, can all be pretty bad).
Geist is pretty capable of killing people, and coupled with a lot more burn, can give you wins a draw-go deck won't get.
Obviously, geist is very good (probably objectively better than whatever you're replacing him with) but being able to play totally reactively while still playing a deck capable of actually ending a game is very appealing.