Sure, but in my experience that tends to mean my first 2-3 lands are going to be a mix of UW or UR shocks. But once I'm looking for a 3rd of fourth land, access to blue is often the bottleneck and where I've often tried to mitigate life loss.
In other news, playtesting with 8 cantrips for both a Nahiri build and a Geist build, I do really like Logic Knot now. The problem is however that I can no longer play Rest in Peace, and the alternatives are all mediocre; Surgical is poor especially without GQ/TE, and Relic doesn't do enough to be worthwhile. I think that I'd rather just switch off the gravehate entirely and accept the loss vs dredge
WHats your deck build? I was trying the same with 22 lands but running into trouble.
Sideboards are still very much WIP, Nahiri probably with Quellers in the side and Geist with Wraths, probably dropping gravehate entirely. Especially in the Geist list, I do not think I will end up wanting 8 cantrips, probably going down to 6 or 7
In other news, playtesting with 8 cantrips for both a Nahiri build and a Geist build, I do really like Logic Knot now. The problem is however that I can no longer play Rest in Peace, and the alternatives are all mediocre; Surgical is poor especially without GQ/TE, and Relic doesn't do enough to be worthwhile. I think that I'd rather just switch off the gravehate entirely and accept the loss vs dredge
why can't you play rip anymore? What changed from before?
You generally want counterspells against the decks you want RIP against, so running Logic Knot and RIP is counterproductive
In other news, playtesting with 8 cantrips for both a Nahiri build and a Geist build, I do really like Logic Knot now. The problem is however that I can no longer play Rest in Peace, and the alternatives are all mediocre; Surgical is poor especially without GQ/TE, and Relic doesn't do enough to be worthwhile. I think that I'd rather just switch off the gravehate entirely and accept the loss vs dredge
WHats your deck build? I was trying the same with 22 lands but running into trouble.
Sideboards are still very much WIP, Nahiri probably with Quellers in the side and Geist with Wraths, probably dropping gravehate entirely. Especially in the Geist list, I do not think I will end up wanting 8 cantrips, probably going down to 6 or 7
In other news, playtesting with 8 cantrips for both a Nahiri build and a Geist build, I do really like Logic Knot now. The problem is however that I can no longer play Rest in Peace, and the alternatives are all mediocre; Surgical is poor especially without GQ/TE, and Relic doesn't do enough to be worthwhile. I think that I'd rather just switch off the gravehate entirely and accept the loss vs dredge
why can't you play rip anymore? What changed from before?
You generally want counterspells against the decks you want RIP against, so running Logic Knot and RIP is counterproductive
Went 3-2 in my first league last night. Beat storm, Lantern, and Nahiri. Lost vs UW Control, and Lantern.
Overall I like the list. Currently trying 23 lands and 7 cantrips.
How do you like 22 lands and 3 collonades? I feel like this could be super greedy but not 100% sure yet.
In other news, playtesting with 8 cantrips for both a Nahiri build and a Geist build, I do really like Logic Knot now. The problem is however that I can no longer play Rest in Peace, and the alternatives are all mediocre; Surgical is poor especially without GQ/TE, and Relic doesn't do enough to be worthwhile. I think that I'd rather just switch off the gravehate entirely and accept the loss vs dredge
How about a couple of Relic's and a couple of Settle the Wreckage for the Dredge matchup - Settle the Wreckage has pretty good utility against a lot of other decks as well..
I've been testing a Opt since it was spoiled. I think 8 cantrips can lead to a bit too much air for my liking. Also I don't particularly love Cryptic Command in a 22 land list - im not sure i'd want more then 2 and im also not sure I want any copies period. Further to this I think Colonnade at 2x might be optimal - feel free to criticize..
//Creatures
4 Spell Queller
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
//Counters
3 Logic Knot (could change 2 leaks to Cryptic Commands - not sure 22 lands can support that well - espcially with fast lands)
3 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
This is what I am currently playing. Sideboarding changes continously, especially I am still in doubt between Cerimonious Rejection or Disdainful stroke!
What do you find difficult about the Eldrazi Tron match-up? It is our toughest match-up, but I'm wondering if there is anything specific that is giving your trouble.
I have an identical 60 atm. My current SB is slightly different.
I bring in artifact hate for challice. Every game that I've beat Eldrazi Tron has consisted of me casting multiple paths.
(I've lost every single game where chalice came down on one before I could counter).
If you are not as afraid of chalice you could bring in pia for extra bodies (one pia will trade with a TKS)
This is what I am currently playing. Sideboarding changes continously, especially I am still in doubt between Cerimonious Rejection or Disdainful stroke!
What do you find difficult about the Eldrazi Tron match-up? It is our toughest match-up, but I'm wondering if there is anything specific that is giving your trouble.
I have an identical 60 atm. My current SB is slightly different.
I bring in artifact hate for challice. Every game that I've beat Eldrazi Tron has consisted of me casting multiple paths.
(I've lost every single game where chalice came down on one before I could counter).
If you are not as afraid of chalice you could bring in pia for extra bodies (one pia will trade with a TKS)
I'm a fan of keeping in at least one Snare, if not both in this matchup. It hits Chalice on one while on the draw which is incredibly good.
This is what I am currently playing. Sideboarding changes continously, especially I am still in doubt between Cerimonious Rejection or Disdainful stroke!
What do you find difficult about the Eldrazi Tron match-up? It is our toughest match-up, but I'm wondering if there is anything specific that is giving your trouble.
I have an identical 60 atm. My current SB is slightly different.
I bring in artifact hate for challice. Every game that I've beat Eldrazi Tron has consisted of me casting multiple paths.
(I've lost every single game where chalice came down on one before I could counter).
If you are not as afraid of chalice you could bring in pia for extra bodies (one pia will trade with a TKS)
I'm a fan of keeping in at least one Snare, if not both in this matchup. It hits Chalice on one while on the draw which is incredibly good.
I wouldn't keep it on the play,
But keeping it on the draw for that reason is acceptable.
So how is opt testing going guys? I think the sweet spot for me is a split 3 opt/2 serum with 23 lands (cut 1 colonnade). TBH didn't have that much time to test further and Sunday will have a tournament. Still have some doubt about my main deck
I'm having good success with 4 opts, 3 serum visions and 23 lands. My list is almost identical to the open first place except 4 opts, 3 serum visions, one less land, and no electrolyze. I've never been happy with electrolyze so I am fine with playing cantrips it's place. I could potentially see cutting one more vision for an electrolyze, but I don't think I'd want to go below 6 cantrips.
6-7 cantrips seems to be the sweetspot to me, It is hard to say whether SV ot Opt is better, as their pros and cons compared to each other really balance out. The more aggressive you play the better Opt is, the more controlling the better SV is.
6-7 cantrips seems to be the sweetspot to me, It is hard to say whether SV ot Opt is better, as their pros and cons compared to each other really balance out. The more aggressive you play the better Opt is, the more controlling the better SV is.
having that many can trips requires a lot of time to cast. Electrolyze is meh in a lot of matchups but it' s a bone breaker in so many others.
Agreed. But do we need electrolyse vs the decks that it is a bone breaker vs?
I am honestly torn and not sure what to do. I am currently considering cutting a serum visions (going down to 4-2) for one electrolyze.
But on the fence.
6-7 cantrips seems to be the sweetspot to me, It is hard to say whether SV ot Opt is better, as their pros and cons compared to each other really balance out. The more aggressive you play the better Opt is, the more controlling the better SV is.
having that many can trips requires a lot of time to cast. Electrolyze is meh in a lot of matchups but it' s a bone breaker in so many others.
Agreed. But do we need electrolyse vs the decks that it is a bone breaker vs?
I am honestly torn and not sure what to do. I am currently considering cutting a serum visions (going down to 4-2) for one electrolyze.
But on the fence.
Well, there aren't many other ways to efficiently deal with a resolved lingering souls without going down at least 1 card. And in MUs like affinity where it can 2-0 their land and their signal pest it is also amazing. But I think they main thing is lingering souls.
6-7 cantrips seems to be the sweetspot to me, It is hard to say whether SV ot Opt is better, as their pros and cons compared to each other really balance out. The more aggressive you play the better Opt is, the more controlling the better SV is.
having that many can trips requires a lot of time to cast. Electrolyze is meh in a lot of matchups but it' s a bone breaker in so many others.
Agreed. But do we need electrolyse vs the decks that it is a bone breaker vs?
I am honestly torn and not sure what to do. I am currently considering cutting a serum visions (going down to 4-2) for one electrolyze.
But on the fence.
Well, there aren't many other ways to efficiently deal with a resolved lingering souls without going down at least 1 card. And in MUs like affinity where it can 2-0 their land and their signal pest it is also amazing. But I think they main thing is lingering souls.
Fair. Going down to 6 cantrips to make room for a one of electrolyze is probably worth it?
Second question: do I cut a crptic (going down to 2) for the second.
6-7 cantrips seems to be the sweetspot to me, It is hard to say whether SV ot Opt is better, as their pros and cons compared to each other really balance out. The more aggressive you play the better Opt is, the more controlling the better SV is.
having that many can trips requires a lot of time to cast. Electrolyze is meh in a lot of matchups but it' s a bone breaker in so many others.
Agreed. But do we need electrolyse vs the decks that it is a bone breaker vs?
I am honestly torn and not sure what to do. I am currently considering cutting a serum visions (going down to 4-2) for one electrolyze.
But on the fence.
Well, there aren't many other ways to efficiently deal with a resolved lingering souls without going down at least 1 card. And in MUs like affinity where it can 2-0 their land and their signal pest it is also amazing. But I think they main thing is lingering souls.
Fair. Going down to 6 cantrips to make room for a one of electrolyze is probably worth it?
Second question: do I cut a crptic (going down to 2) for the second.
I will try today 22 lands, 4-Opts 4-SVs 1-Electrolyze. Cutting down to 22 lands, 1 electrolyze and 1 Spell snare is how I made room for all the cantriping.
having that many can trips requires a lot of time to cast. Electrolyze is meh in a lot of matchups but it' s a bone breaker in so many others.
Agreed. But do we need electrolyse vs the decks that it is a bone breaker vs?
I am honestly torn and not sure what to do. I am currently considering cutting a serum visions (going down to 4-2) for one electrolyze.
But on the fence.
Well, there aren't many other ways to efficiently deal with a resolved lingering souls without going down at least 1 card. And in MUs like affinity where it can 2-0 their land and their signal pest it is also amazing. But I think they main thing is lingering souls.
Fair. Going down to 6 cantrips to make room for a one of electrolyze is probably worth it?
Second question: do I cut a crptic (going down to 2) for the second.
I will try today 22 lands, 4-Opts 4-SVs 1-Electrolyze. Cutting down to 22 lands, 1 electrolyze and 1 Spell snare is how I made room for all the cantriping.
I felt like 22 lands was too greedy (especially with three colonnades). Below is my current list - thoughts welcome.
I'm effectively trying to figure out how to squeeze electrolyzes in now. (and if its worth it to do so.)
Agreed. But do we need electrolyse vs the decks that it is a bone breaker vs?
I am honestly torn and not sure what to do. I am currently considering cutting a serum visions (going down to 4-2) for one electrolyze.
But on the fence.
Well, there aren't many other ways to efficiently deal with a resolved lingering souls without going down at least 1 card. And in MUs like affinity where it can 2-0 their land and their signal pest it is also amazing. But I think they main thing is lingering souls.
Fair. Going down to 6 cantrips to make room for a one of electrolyze is probably worth it?
Second question: do I cut a crptic (going down to 2) for the second.
I will try today 22 lands, 4-Opts 4-SVs 1-Electrolyze. Cutting down to 22 lands, 1 electrolyze and 1 Spell snare is how I made room for all the cantriping.
I felt like 22 lands was too greedy (especially with three colonnades). Below is my current list - thoughts welcome.
I'm effectively trying to figure out how to squeeze electrolyzes in now. (and if its worth it to do so.)
Well, there aren't many other ways to efficiently deal with a resolved lingering souls without going down at least 1 card. And in MUs like affinity where it can 2-0 their land and their signal pest it is also amazing. But I think they main thing is lingering souls.
Fair. Going down to 6 cantrips to make room for a one of electrolyze is probably worth it?
Second question: do I cut a crptic (going down to 2) for the second.
I will try today 22 lands, 4-Opts 4-SVs 1-Electrolyze. Cutting down to 22 lands, 1 electrolyze and 1 Spell snare is how I made room for all the cantriping.
I felt like 22 lands was too greedy (especially with three colonnades). Below is my current list - thoughts welcome.
I'm effectively trying to figure out how to squeeze electrolyzes in now. (and if its worth it to do so.)
Opt has been disappointing in my testing. The main reason we started playing Serum Visions in the first place(we didn't use to when jeskai geist broke out in 2013-2014) was to make sure getting the mana right, and Opt just doesn't do a good job at that. Keeping one-landers with Opt is a very different thing than keeping one-landers with Serum Visions. I had hoped Opt could be kinda like the modern substitute for Brainstorm, but it just feels too weak.
1 Engineered Explosives
// 6 Creature
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
// 21 Instant
4 Opt
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
4 Logic Knot
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Spirebluff Canal
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
// 6 Sorcery
4 Serum Visions
2 Supreme Verdict
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spell Queller
3 Geist of Saint Traft
// 23 Instant
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
2 Electrolyze
2 Cryptic Command
4 Path to Exile
3 Logic Knot
4 Opt
2 Spell Snare
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Spirebluff Canal
4 Serum Visions
Sideboards are still very much WIP, Nahiri probably with Quellers in the side and Geist with Wraths, probably dropping gravehate entirely. Especially in the Geist list, I do not think I will end up wanting 8 cantrips, probably going down to 6 or 7
You generally want counterspells against the decks you want RIP against, so running Logic Knot and RIP is counterproductive
Went 3-2 in my first league last night. Beat storm, Lantern, and Nahiri. Lost vs UW Control, and Lantern.
Overall I like the list. Currently trying 23 lands and 7 cantrips.
How do you like 22 lands and 3 collonades? I feel like this could be super greedy but not 100% sure yet.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
How about a couple of Relic's and a couple of Settle the Wreckage for the Dredge matchup - Settle the Wreckage has pretty good utility against a lot of other decks as well..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
//Mana
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
2 Celestial Colonnade
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Spirebluff Canal
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
//Creatures
4 Spell Queller
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
//Counters
3 Logic Knot (could change 2 leaks to Cryptic Commands - not sure 22 lands can support that well - espcially with fast lands)
3 Mana Leak
2 Spell Snare
//Removal
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
//Other
4 Serum Visions
3 Opt
//Sideboard
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Ceremonious Rejection
SB: 2 Disdainful Stroke
SB: 2 Runed Halo
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Gideon of the Trials
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 2 Settle the Wreckage
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
What do you find difficult about the Eldrazi Tron match-up? It is our toughest match-up, but I'm wondering if there is anything specific that is giving your trouble.
I have an identical 60 atm. My current SB is slightly different.
2x Disdainful Stroke
2x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Negate
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Supreme Verdict
2x pia and kiran nalaar
1x Wear / Tear
1x Vendilion Clique
Against Eldrazi Tron this is my game plan
OUT
x2 lightning bolt, x3 lightning helix, x2 spell snare
IN
x2 disdainful stroke, x1 vendillian clqiue, x2 supreme verdict, x1 engineered explosives, x1 wear/tear
I bring in artifact hate for challice. Every game that I've beat Eldrazi Tron has consisted of me casting multiple paths.
(I've lost every single game where chalice came down on one before I could counter).
If you are not as afraid of chalice you could bring in pia for extra bodies (one pia will trade with a TKS)
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
I'm a fan of keeping in at least one Snare, if not both in this matchup. It hits Chalice on one while on the draw which is incredibly good.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
I wouldn't keep it on the play,
But keeping it on the draw for that reason is acceptable.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I'm having good success with 4 opts, 3 serum visions and 23 lands. My list is almost identical to the open first place except 4 opts, 3 serum visions, one less land, and no electrolyze. I've never been happy with electrolyze so I am fine with playing cantrips it's place. I could potentially see cutting one more vision for an electrolyze, but I don't think I'd want to go below 6 cantrips.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Agreed. But do we need electrolyse vs the decks that it is a bone breaker vs?
I am honestly torn and not sure what to do. I am currently considering cutting a serum visions (going down to 4-2) for one electrolyze.
But on the fence.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Fair. Going down to 6 cantrips to make room for a one of electrolyze is probably worth it?
Second question: do I cut a crptic (going down to 2) for the second.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
I felt like 22 lands was too greedy (especially with three colonnades). Below is my current list - thoughts welcome.
I'm effectively trying to figure out how to squeeze electrolyzes in now. (and if its worth it to do so.)
3x Celestial Colonnade
4x Flooded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
3x Sulfur Falls
Sorcery (3)
3x Serum Visions
3x Cryptic Command
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
3x Logic Knot
4x Opt
4x Path to Exile
2x Spell Snare
Creature (11)
3x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Spell Queller
2x Disdainful Stroke
2x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Negate
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Supreme Verdict
1x celestrial purge
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Wear / Tear
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
You need the third helix vs burn IMO (which is still popular) unless you think you can get away without it?
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW