Could this silly discussion about "doesn't ALWAYS work" maybe stop? MtG is a game of chance, nothing ALWAYS works. Concede that Ceremoneous Rejection as your only trump against Etron is dangerous if you dont have a plan versus chalice, but also that the card is very strong if they do not resolve an early chalice. All discussion after that has just been people insisting on trying to convince others of their right. Besides, I think Etron is starting to get hated out pretty hard now
On a separate note, djphan25, no offense, but could you stop ending every single sentence with an ellipsis? It is incredibly tedious to read over, like you're slacking a weary sigh with everything you say
Hello guys! I have recently started playing the deck (queller and geist version) and, testing with some friends, I had a lot of issue against BGx and more specifically against Abzan! The combination of lingering souls and Liliana definitely killed me tons of times! any advices for this matchup? thanks a lot!
Bgx matchups are very grindy, and abzsn is probably the strongest against us as they have just straight up high card quality. You want to play the long game versus them and get every bit of value out of your cards. When you sideboard, you should go lighter on burn spells, the exact number depending on how many creatures they have that die to bolt (this varies a lot between abzan lists). Burn to the face is awful versus them as it ia card diaadvantage and they often have lifegain; unless they have mana dorks, I prefer cutting bolts before helixes. You want to go lower on countermagic, but not cut all of it, as it is a strong against them but also clunky as cards like mana leak become dead topdecks and they have discard spells to play around it (but good BGx pilots should cut on discard a bit). Negate and Cryptic Command are excellent counterspells against them. Bring in your own grindy cards like planeswalkers and wraths, and be wary of their planeswalkers as a resolved Ally Gideon or Sorin is a nightmare. Lingering Souls is really rough on us; you often want to push them on playing both halves so you can kill then all at once with some kind of wrath. Also, remanding the flashback is fantastic
Hello guys! I have recently started playing the deck (queller and geist version) and, testing with some friends, I had a lot of issue against BGx and more specifically against Abzan! The combination of lingering souls and Liliana definitely killed me tons of times! any advices for this matchup? thanks a lot!
Bgx matchups are very grindy, and abzsn is probably the strongest against us as they have just straight up high card quality. You want to play the long game versus them and get every bit of value out of your cards. When you sideboard, you should go lighter on burn spells, the exact number depending on how many creatures they have that die to bolt (this varies a lot between abzan lists). Burn to the face is awful versus them as it ia card diaadvantage and they often have lifegain; unless they have mana dorks, I prefer cutting bolts before helixes. You want to go lower on countermagic, but not cut all of it, as it is a strong against them but also clunky as cards like mana leak become dead topdecks and they have discard spells to play around it (but good BGx pilots should cut on discard a bit). Negate and Cryptic Command are excellent counterspells against them. Bring in your own grindy cards like planeswalkers and wraths, and be wary of their planeswalkers as a resolved Ally Gideon or Sorin is a nightmare. Lingering Souls is really rough on us; you often want to push them on playing both halves so you can kill then all at once with some kind of wrath. Also, remanding the flashback is fantastic
All good points. I'd like to add that if you expect to see these type of grindy match-ups you should run 3-4 Ancestral Visions and have something like Staticaster/Engineered Explosives in your sideboard.
Could this silly discussion about "doesn't ALWAYS work" maybe stop? MtG is a game of chance, nothing ALWAYS works. Concede that Ceremoneous Rejection as your only trump against Etron is dangerous if you dont have a plan versus chalice, but also that the card is very strong if they do not resolve an early chalice. All discussion after that has just been people insisting on trying to convince others of their right. Besides, I think Etron is starting to get hated out pretty hard now
Hear hear!
I do hope E-Tron gets hated out! Firer rode that idea to a title.
For those against Rejection because of some awkwardness with cavern and chalice, fair enough. I would prefer to take the 60-70% chance that I have an answer to an early chalice (and then their whole deck) in the form of rejection, since playing through a chalice for more than one or two turns can mean the game is already over.
It would be more useful if people came up with solutions rather than problems which are already recognised... yes E-Tron plays chalice, yes, they also play Cavern. They have done for a while now and Rejection is still a card.
What do people think about including Cast Out and Detention Sphere in the sideboard? These two cards line up pretty well Vs. E-Tron given they can sweep chalices off the board, and trade 1 for 1 against Reality Smasher, not to mention Karn et. al.
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Could this silly discussion about "doesn't ALWAYS work" maybe stop? MtG is a game of chance, nothing ALWAYS works. Concede that Ceremoneous Rejection as your only trump against Etron is dangerous if you dont have a plan versus chalice, but also that the card is very strong if they do not resolve an early chalice. All discussion after that has just been people insisting on trying to convince others of their right. Besides, I think Etron is starting to get hated out pretty hard now
Hear hear!
I do hope E-Tron gets hated out! Firer rode that idea to a title.
For those against Rejection because of some awkwardness with cavern and chalice, fair enough. I would prefer to take the 60-70% chance that I have an answer to an early chalice (and then their whole deck) in the form of rejection, since playing through a chalice for more than one or two turns can mean the game is already over.
It would be more useful if people came up with solutions rather than problems which are already recognised... yes E-Tron plays chalice, yes, they also play Cavern. They have done for a while now and Rejection is still a card.
What do people think about including Cast Out and Detention Sphere in the sideboard? These two cards line up pretty well Vs. E-Tron given they can sweep chalices off the board, and trade 1 for 1 against Reality Smasher, not to mention Karn et. al.
I've ran Cast Out maindeck for a long-time. If you check the GP Kobe Last Chance Trial lists on Wizards website you can find my list that 5-0 with Cast Out maindeck. I was the only Jeskai player to win a last chance trial, as well.
I thought i posted the numbers... but if you play 4 rejections you have a 57% chance of seeing at least one in the first 3 turns.. etron has a 87% chance of having one of map, cavern or chalice...
That means theres an approximate 37% chance(.87 times .43) that you wont draw rejection in time... im sorry thats not a rare occurrence...
You might say i didnt include logic knot but i also didnt include relic either..
Why does UW have a good etron matchup? Because they can deal with cavern and chalice in their main deck... why does GDS have a great matchup? They have discard and kcommand for chalice and cavern is irrelevant whem they have one mana 5/5s...
It points to why jeskai has a tough time.. we dont have an answer to them resolving chalice and finding cavern... and both of them together nukes about 19 cards... and their win percentage is much higher when they resolve either than the times where we draw one or even 2 or 3 rejections...
This is why im saying counters are not where you want to be.. and this goes for dstroke also.. the problem is dealing with resolved things.. if you are depending on countering everything.. i guarantee you that you are going to have a really bad time...
More 1% arguments. "Dies to doomblade" is not a rational argument and it's the same rationale a lot of people are using here. We have access to a one mana spell that counters almost every card in 2 tier one decks and a bunch of cards in a couple other strong decks you might run into. It's one of the only solid answers to Map...yet I still see people suggesting map is a problem. You can only lead horses to water so many times before you just give up.
If some of you want to keep losing to Eldrazi Tron feel free to do so. Many of us have shifted the post-board match-up significantly and we feel very good about our chances. If you don't want to use the best cards no one will force you to.
I honestly would not want to bring in counter magic vs Affinity. Probably too slow on the draw. Maybe ok on the play.
Counter-magic is hit or miss vs Eldrazi too, which is why I like playing x3 remands.
I don't think "rejection is good vs other tier 1 decks" is really an argument, because you wouldn't really want to bring in rejection in against those matchups (despite being good). The only exception I could see is Lantern because its slower.
Using cast away is an interesting concept. I may experiment with it. That could be another solution to chalice
I thought i posted the numbers... but if you play 4 rejections you have a 57% chance of seeing at least one in the first 3 turns.. etron has a 87% chance of having one of map, cavern or chalice...
That means theres an approximate 37% chance(.87 times .43) that you wont draw rejection in time... im sorry thats not a rare occurrence...
You might say i didnt include logic knot but i also didnt include relic either..
Why does UW have a good etron matchup? Because they can deal with cavern and chalice in their main deck... why does GDS have a great matchup? They have discard and kcommand for chalice and cavern is irrelevant whem they have one mana 5/5s...
It points to why jeskai has a tough time.. we dont have an answer to them resolving chalice and finding cavern... and both of them together nukes about 19 cards... and their win percentage is much higher when they resolve either than the times where we draw one or even 2 or 3 rejections...
This is why im saying counters are not where you want to be.. and this goes for dstroke also.. the problem is dealing with resolved things.. if you are depending on countering everything.. i guarantee you that you are going to have a really bad time...
More 1% arguments. "Dies to doomblade" is not a rational argument and it's the same rationale a lot of people are using here. We have access to a one mana spell that counters almost every card in 2 tier one decks and a bunch of cards in a couple other strong decks you might run into. It's one of the only solid answers to Map...yet I still see people suggesting map is a problem. You can only lead horses to water so many times before you just give up.
If some of you want to keep losing to Eldrazi Tron feel free to do so. Many of us have shifted the post-board match-up significantly and we feel very good about our chances. If you don't want to use the best cards no one will force you to.
I honestly would not want to bring in counter magic vs Affinity. Probably too slow on the draw. Maybe ok on the play.
Counter-magic is hit or miss vs Eldrazi too, which is why I like playing x3 remands.
I don't think "rejection is good vs other tier 1 decks" is really an argument, because you wouldn't really want to bring in rejection in against those matchups (despite being good). The only exception I could see is Lantern because its slower.
Using cast away is an interesting concept. I may experiment with it. That could be another solution to chalice
Perhaps you haven't played much against affinity. The way Affinity beats jeskai is by top decking a power card. We usually neutralize their board but a topdecked plating, etched champion, raveger, etc. Can swing a win to a loss. Rejection is amazing against Affinity.
I thought i posted the numbers... but if you play 4 rejections you have a 57% chance of seeing at least one in the first 3 turns.. etron has a 87% chance of having one of map, cavern or chalice...
That means theres an approximate 37% chance(.87 times .43) that you wont draw rejection in time... im sorry thats not a rare occurrence...
You might say i didnt include logic knot but i also didnt include relic either..
Why does UW have a good etron matchup? Because they can deal with cavern and chalice in their main deck... why does GDS have a great matchup? They have discard and kcommand for chalice and cavern is irrelevant whem they have one mana 5/5s...
It points to why jeskai has a tough time.. we dont have an answer to them resolving chalice and finding cavern... and both of them together nukes about 19 cards... and their win percentage is much higher when they resolve either than the times where we draw one or even 2 or 3 rejections...
This is why im saying counters are not where you want to be.. and this goes for dstroke also.. the problem is dealing with resolved things.. if you are depending on countering everything.. i guarantee you that you are going to have a really bad time...
More 1% arguments. "Dies to doomblade" is not a rational argument and it's the same rationale a lot of people are using here. We have access to a one mana spell that counters almost every card in 2 tier one decks and a bunch of cards in a couple other strong decks you might run into. It's one of the only solid answers to Map...yet I still see people suggesting map is a problem. You can only lead horses to water so many times before you just give up.
If some of you want to keep losing to Eldrazi Tron feel free to do so. Many of us have shifted the post-board match-up significantly and we feel very good about our chances. If you don't want to use the best cards no one will force you to.
I honestly would not want to bring in counter magic vs Affinity. Probably too slow on the draw. Maybe ok on the play.
Counter-magic is hit or miss vs Eldrazi too, which is why I like playing x3 remands.
I don't think "rejection is good vs other tier 1 decks" is really an argument, because you wouldn't really want to bring in rejection in against those matchups (despite being good). The only exception I could see is Lantern because its slower.
Using cast away is an interesting concept. I may experiment with it. That could be another solution to chalice
Perhaps you haven't played much against affinity. The way Affinity beats jeskai is by top decking a power card. We usually neutralize their board but a topdecked plating, etched champion, raveger, etc. Can swing a win to a loss. Rejection is amazing against Affinity.
It's ok. "Amazing" is a strong...strong stretch. I would rather have an extra supreme verdict (which also nullifies their strongest top deck and then some).
A top decked plating or ravager won't swing the game to a loss if they are behind. The only potential top-deck card that can swing a game that much is etched champion, and only if they are not too far behind.
I have extensive experience against Affinity. Both as an ex-affinity pilot and as well as plenty of reps against the deck as a Jeski Pilot.
I thought i posted the numbers... but if you play 4 rejections you have a 57% chance of seeing at least one in the first 3 turns.. etron has a 87% chance of having one of map, cavern or chalice...
That means theres an approximate 37% chance(.87 times .43) that you wont draw rejection in time... im sorry thats not a rare occurrence...
You might say i didnt include logic knot but i also didnt include relic either..
Why does UW have a good etron matchup? Because they can deal with cavern and chalice in their main deck... why does GDS have a great matchup? They have discard and kcommand for chalice and cavern is irrelevant whem they have one mana 5/5s...
It points to why jeskai has a tough time.. we dont have an answer to them resolving chalice and finding cavern... and both of them together nukes about 19 cards... and their win percentage is much higher when they resolve either than the times where we draw one or even 2 or 3 rejections...
This is why im saying counters are not where you want to be.. and this goes for dstroke also.. the problem is dealing with resolved things.. if you are depending on countering everything.. i guarantee you that you are going to have a really bad time...
More 1% arguments. "Dies to doomblade" is not a rational argument and it's the same rationale a lot of people are using here. We have access to a one mana spell that counters almost every card in 2 tier one decks and a bunch of cards in a couple other strong decks you might run into. It's one of the only solid answers to Map...yet I still see people suggesting map is a problem. You can only lead horses to water so many times before you just give up.
If some of you want to keep losing to Eldrazi Tron feel free to do so. Many of us have shifted the post-board match-up significantly and we feel very good about our chances. If you don't want to use the best cards no one will force you to.
I honestly would not want to bring in counter magic vs Affinity. Probably too slow on the draw. Maybe ok on the play.
Counter-magic is hit or miss vs Eldrazi too, which is why I like playing x3 remands.
I don't think "rejection is good vs other tier 1 decks" is really an argument, because you wouldn't really want to bring in rejection in against those matchups (despite being good). The only exception I could see is Lantern because its slower.
Using cast away is an interesting concept. I may experiment with it. That could be another solution to chalice
Perhaps you haven't played much against affinity. The way Affinity beats jeskai is by top decking a power card. We usually neutralize their board but a topdecked plating, etched champion, raveger, etc. Can swing a win to a loss. Rejection is amazing against Affinity.
It's ok. "Amazing" is a strong...strong stretch. I would rather have an extra supreme verdict (which also nullifies their strongest top deck and then some).
A top decked plating or ravager won't swing the game to a loss if they are behind. The only potential top-deck card that can swing a game that much is etched champion, and only if they are not too far behind.
I have extensive experience against Affinity. Both as an ex-affinity pilot and as well as plenty of reps against the deck as a Jeski Pilot.
Against a top deck verdict does nothing. They top deck plating active blinkmoth and kill you while you sit with your verdict in hand.
More 1% arguments. "Dies to doomblade" is not a rational argument and it's the same rationale a lot of people are using here. We have access to a one mana spell that counters almost every card in 2 tier one decks and a bunch of cards in a couple other strong decks you might run into. It's one of the only solid answers to Map...yet I still see people suggesting map is a problem. You can only lead horses to water so many times before you just give up.
If some of you want to keep losing to Eldrazi Tron feel free to do so. Many of us have shifted the post-board match-up significantly and we feel very good about our chances. If you don't want to use the best cards no one will force you to.
I honestly would not want to bring in counter magic vs Affinity. Probably too slow on the draw. Maybe ok on the play.
Counter-magic is hit or miss vs Eldrazi too, which is why I like playing x3 remands.
I don't think "rejection is good vs other tier 1 decks" is really an argument, because you wouldn't really want to bring in rejection in against those matchups (despite being good). The only exception I could see is Lantern because its slower.
Using cast away is an interesting concept. I may experiment with it. That could be another solution to chalice
Perhaps you haven't played much against affinity. The way Affinity beats jeskai is by top decking a power card. We usually neutralize their board but a topdecked plating, etched champion, raveger, etc. Can swing a win to a loss. Rejection is amazing against Affinity.
It's ok. "Amazing" is a strong...strong stretch. I would rather have an extra supreme verdict (which also nullifies their strongest top deck and then some).
A top decked plating or ravager won't swing the game to a loss if they are behind. The only potential top-deck card that can swing a game that much is etched champion, and only if they are not too far behind.
I have extensive experience against Affinity. Both as an ex-affinity pilot and as well as plenty of reps against the deck as a Jeski Pilot.
Against a top deck verdict does nothing. They top deck plating active blinkmoth and kill you while you sit with your verdict in hand.
You run 20+ ways to kill a blink moth (bolt, path, helix, snapcaster, celestial colonnade, spell queller). If a top deck plating + blinkmoth kills you - you are not ahead. You are behind. Very very very far behind. You may have stabilized but you are still behind. Hence my comment below
A top decked plating or ravager won't swing the game to a loss if they are behind.
EDIT: Also - if a top decked cranial plating + blinkmoth activation kills you, chances are a top decked galvanic blast would also kill you. At that point the only thing you can do is pray you draw a helix... and fast.
I honestly would not want to bring in counter magic vs Affinity. Probably too slow on the draw. Maybe ok on the play.
Counter-magic is hit or miss vs Eldrazi too, which is why I like playing x3 remands.
I don't think "rejection is good vs other tier 1 decks" is really an argument, because you wouldn't really want to bring in rejection in against those matchups (despite being good). The only exception I could see is Lantern because its slower.
Using cast away is an interesting concept. I may experiment with it. That could be another solution to chalice
Perhaps you haven't played much against affinity. The way Affinity beats jeskai is by top decking a power card. We usually neutralize their board but a topdecked plating, etched champion, raveger, etc. Can swing a win to a loss. Rejection is amazing against Affinity.
It's ok. "Amazing" is a strong...strong stretch. I would rather have an extra supreme verdict (which also nullifies their strongest top deck and then some).
A top decked plating or ravager won't swing the game to a loss if they are behind. The only potential top-deck card that can swing a game that much is etched champion, and only if they are not too far behind.
I have extensive experience against Affinity. Both as an ex-affinity pilot and as well as plenty of reps against the deck as a Jeski Pilot.
Against a top deck verdict does nothing. They top deck plating active blinkmoth and kill you while you sit with your verdict in hand.
You run 20+ ways to kill a blink moth (bolt, path, helix, snapcaster, celestial colonnade, spell queller). If a top deck plating + blinkmoth kills you - you are not ahead. You are behind. Very very very far behind. You may have stabilized but you are still behind. Hence my comment below
A top decked plating or ravager won't swing the game to a loss if they are behind.
I don't know what you are smoking but Collonade active and block is SIX mana.
Perhaps you haven't played much against affinity. The way Affinity beats jeskai is by top decking a power card. We usually neutralize their board but a topdecked plating, etched champion, raveger, etc. Can swing a win to a loss. Rejection is amazing against Affinity.
It's ok. "Amazing" is a strong...strong stretch. I would rather have an extra supreme verdict (which also nullifies their strongest top deck and then some).
A top decked plating or ravager won't swing the game to a loss if they are behind. The only potential top-deck card that can swing a game that much is etched champion, and only if they are not too far behind.
I have extensive experience against Affinity. Both as an ex-affinity pilot and as well as plenty of reps against the deck as a Jeski Pilot.
Against a top deck verdict does nothing. They top deck plating active blinkmoth and kill you while you sit with your verdict in hand.
You run 20+ ways to kill a blink moth (bolt, path, helix, snapcaster, celestial colonnade, spell queller). If a top deck plating + blinkmoth kills you - you are not ahead. You are behind. Very very very far behind. You may have stabilized but you are still behind. Hence my comment below
A top decked plating or ravager won't swing the game to a loss if they are behind.
I don't know what you are smoking but Collonade active and block is SIX mana.
We are talking about top-decking situations. Those typically don't occur till after turn 4.
Typically turn 5/6 by the time Jeski exhausts all of it's resources.
The way Affinity beats jeskai is by top decking a power card
Also - casting cranial plating, activating blink moth, and equipping takes 5 mana. Affinity is not going to have that much mana before turn 4/5.
Unless they drew very well... and in that case the Jeskai Player is behind. See my earlier comment.
Or unless they flood out... and if that is the case blinkmoth + cranial plating isn't going to kill you.
EDIT: do you play this matchup much? Because having 5 mana for affinity before turn 6 is very rare unless they flood out. They don't want that much mana available 0_o.
It's ok. "Amazing" is a strong...strong stretch. I would rather have an extra supreme verdict (which also nullifies their strongest top deck and then some).
A top decked plating or ravager won't swing the game to a loss if they are behind. The only potential top-deck card that can swing a game that much is etched champion, and only if they are not too far behind.
I have extensive experience against Affinity. Both as an ex-affinity pilot and as well as plenty of reps against the deck as a Jeski Pilot.
Against a top deck verdict does nothing. They top deck plating active blinkmoth and kill you while you sit with your verdict in hand.
You run 20+ ways to kill a blink moth (bolt, path, helix, snapcaster, celestial colonnade, spell queller). If a top deck plating + blinkmoth kills you - you are not ahead. You are behind. Very very very far behind. You may have stabilized but you are still behind. Hence my comment below
A top decked plating or ravager won't swing the game to a loss if they are behind.
I don't know what you are smoking but Collonade active and block is SIX mana.
We are talking about top-decking situations. Those typically don't occur till after turn 4.
Typically turn 5/6 by the time Jeski exhausts all of it's resources.
The way Affinity beats jeskai is by top decking a power card
Also - casting cranial plating, activating blink moth, and equipping takes 5 mana. Affinity is not going to have that much mana before turn 4/5.
Unless they drew very well... and in that case the Jeskai Player is behind. See my earlier comment.
Or unless they flood out... and if that is the case blinkmoth + cranial plating isn't going to kill you.
EDIT: do you play this matchup much? Because having 5 mana for affinity before turn 6 is very rare unless they flood out. They don't want that much mana available 0_o.
I've tried to be reasonable with you but it doesn't work. I don't like to be trolled. Ignore button time.
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Infraction for Spam ~Lantern
Against a top deck verdict does nothing. They top deck plating active blinkmoth and kill you while you sit with your verdict in hand.
You run 20+ ways to kill a blink moth (bolt, path, helix, snapcaster, celestial colonnade, spell queller). If a top deck plating + blinkmoth kills you - you are not ahead. You are behind. Very very very far behind. You may have stabilized but you are still behind. Hence my comment below
A top decked plating or ravager won't swing the game to a loss if they are behind.
I don't know what you are smoking but Collonade active and block is SIX mana.
We are talking about top-decking situations. Those typically don't occur till after turn 4.
Typically turn 5/6 by the time Jeski exhausts all of it's resources.
The way Affinity beats jeskai is by top decking a power card
Also - casting cranial plating, activating blink moth, and equipping takes 5 mana. Affinity is not going to have that much mana before turn 4/5.
Unless they drew very well... and in that case the Jeskai Player is behind. See my earlier comment.
Or unless they flood out... and if that is the case blinkmoth + cranial plating isn't going to kill you.
EDIT: do you play this matchup much? Because having 5 mana for affinity before turn 6 is very rare unless they flood out. They don't want that much mana available 0_o.
I've tried to be reasonable with you but it doesn't work. I don't like to be trolled. Ignore button time.
You are not reasonable.
In order to cast cranial plating, activate blink moth, equip blink moth, and swing the affinity player would need 6 mana sources including the blinkmoth. (or 5 other mana sources). That is why I mentioned colonnade. Because I assumed it was turn 6 if the affinity player has that much left-over mana and you didn't have a way to directly kill a blink-moth.
I assumed you were talking about casting and equipping and swinging in the same turn.
If that is not what you were saying I apologize.
Could this silly discussion about "doesn't ALWAYS work" maybe stop? MtG is a game of chance, nothing ALWAYS works.
Yea it really puzzles me how illogical people can be. Saying Rejection is bad 'cause it doesn't turn a 40-60 pre-board MU into a 100-0 post board MU is incredibly nonsensical. Rejection is by far the best answer we can play to E Tron. This is why the card sees play in the sideboard of every single blue based deck in the format right now, and people even play it in legacy. There's nothing better you can do against Eldrazi. Stony Silence doesn't come even close. Sure, you can just go down the "hope to dodge them" route, but IMHO you can't afford it right now.
This argument reminds me of people who said "Dark Confidant is bad 'cause it dies to everything". You don't hear that very much anymore. But it's that same logic. I mean..."unlogic".
Not quite the bob argument. The problem - rejection is extremely narrow. The fact that it "doesn't always work" and is only really excellent and/or needed in a single matchup makes its inclusion hard to justify. At a large event (GP)... you are only going to fave 3-4 Eldrazi Tron players at max.
It's hard (for me) to justify sb slot for just 30% of your games. Likewise it would be hard to justify playing Jund/Bob if the deck was only good vs 30% of the meta.
EDIT: Day 2 of the last star-city games open only had 11% Eldrazi Tron representation day 2.
If you only play 2-3 eldrazi tron in 15 matches.... I am not sure it's worth inclusion.
So someone mentioned cast out... I like that card and might actually try something like below this coming friday.
On a non-related note: has anyone ever used mtgo tickets new mtgo trading manatraders? I might try it out to play test this deck on mtgo (opt now legal).
UW never really played rejection... they favor stony... grixis plays rejection since their artifact or colorless hate is nonexistant in their colors...
Anyway this horse is dead... what works for you might not work for everyone else...
I play dsphere in the board but castout is good also... i like dsphere because it's better vs tokens (storm and souls) and works better vs multiple chalices or bridges...
Edit: if youre new to mtgo i like mtgotraders and use discountcode redditpaypal to initially get your cards.. ive never used manatraders so cant comment...
I play dsphere in the board but castout is good also... i like dsphere because it's better vs tokens (storm and souls) and works better vs multiple chalices or bridges...
True. Cast out is also instant though. Main reason it intrigues me. (plus it cycles).
Could this silly discussion about "doesn't ALWAYS work" maybe stop? MtG is a game of chance, nothing ALWAYS works.
Yea it really puzzles me how illogical people can be. Saying Rejection is bad 'cause it doesn't turn a 40-60 pre-board MU into a 100-0 post board MU is incredibly nonsensical. Rejection is by far the best answer we can play to E Tron. This is why the card sees play in the sideboard of every single blue based deck in the format right now, and people even play it in legacy. There's nothing better you can do against Eldrazi. Stony Silence doesn't come even close. Sure, you can just go down the "hope to dodge them" route, but IMHO you can't afford it right now.
This argument reminds me of people who said "Dark Confidant is bad 'cause it dies to everything". You don't hear that very much anymore. But it's that same logic. I mean..."unlogic".
Did you actually read the printed words? I never said it was bad. In fact, there are very few who actually said it was bad. My point is that some of you are clutching Ceremonious Rejection like there's so little chance to beat them without it. I personally know via testing that even with it, your odds don't swing that greatly, but it's really the only way to beat a turn 2 Chalice of the Void for X = 1. That's the very reason any Jeskai pilots play it. Yeah, it's also good against the rest of the deck, but so are a lot of other cards. Moreover, our chance to beat them seems to rely more on the Eldrazi Tron players draws more than anything. If they get the right draw, good luck. If they don't, you're still having to play around certain topdecks. djphan was trying to make a particular point that, if it's so good and versatile, why aren't we slamming 4 into our sideboards? I'm not saying I wouldn't play the card at all. I obviously do and have pointed out that it's good, but some of you just seem intellectually boring in this department. Instead of trying to prod more discussion for different methods, you'd rather just put others down because apparently we don't get it. Really?
Critical thinking ya'll. It's not a diss. Sometimes, it's just about exploring options. Jesus, even Reddit isn't this bad.
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On a separate note, djphan25, no offense, but could you stop ending every single sentence with an ellipsis? It is incredibly tedious to read over, like you're slacking a weary sigh with everything you say
Bgx matchups are very grindy, and abzsn is probably the strongest against us as they have just straight up high card quality. You want to play the long game versus them and get every bit of value out of your cards. When you sideboard, you should go lighter on burn spells, the exact number depending on how many creatures they have that die to bolt (this varies a lot between abzan lists). Burn to the face is awful versus them as it ia card diaadvantage and they often have lifegain; unless they have mana dorks, I prefer cutting bolts before helixes. You want to go lower on countermagic, but not cut all of it, as it is a strong against them but also clunky as cards like mana leak become dead topdecks and they have discard spells to play around it (but good BGx pilots should cut on discard a bit). Negate and Cryptic Command are excellent counterspells against them. Bring in your own grindy cards like planeswalkers and wraths, and be wary of their planeswalkers as a resolved Ally Gideon or Sorin is a nightmare. Lingering Souls is really rough on us; you often want to push them on playing both halves so you can kill then all at once with some kind of wrath. Also, remanding the flashback is fantastic
All good points. I'd like to add that if you expect to see these type of grindy match-ups you should run 3-4 Ancestral Visions and have something like Staticaster/Engineered Explosives in your sideboard.
Hear hear!
I do hope E-Tron gets hated out! Firer rode that idea to a title.
For those against Rejection because of some awkwardness with cavern and chalice, fair enough. I would prefer to take the 60-70% chance that I have an answer to an early chalice (and then their whole deck) in the form of rejection, since playing through a chalice for more than one or two turns can mean the game is already over.
It would be more useful if people came up with solutions rather than problems which are already recognised... yes E-Tron plays chalice, yes, they also play Cavern. They have done for a while now and Rejection is still a card.
What do people think about including Cast Out and Detention Sphere in the sideboard? These two cards line up pretty well Vs. E-Tron given they can sweep chalices off the board, and trade 1 for 1 against Reality Smasher, not to mention Karn et. al.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
I've ran Cast Out maindeck for a long-time. If you check the GP Kobe Last Chance Trial lists on Wizards website you can find my list that 5-0 with Cast Out maindeck. I was the only Jeskai player to win a last chance trial, as well.
I honestly would not want to bring in counter magic vs Affinity. Probably too slow on the draw. Maybe ok on the play.
Counter-magic is hit or miss vs Eldrazi too, which is why I like playing x3 remands.
I don't think "rejection is good vs other tier 1 decks" is really an argument, because you wouldn't really want to bring in rejection in against those matchups (despite being good). The only exception I could see is Lantern because its slower.
Using cast away is an interesting concept. I may experiment with it. That could be another solution to chalice
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Perhaps you haven't played much against affinity. The way Affinity beats jeskai is by top decking a power card. We usually neutralize their board but a topdecked plating, etched champion, raveger, etc. Can swing a win to a loss. Rejection is amazing against Affinity.
It's ok. "Amazing" is a strong...strong stretch. I would rather have an extra supreme verdict (which also nullifies their strongest top deck and then some).
A top decked plating or ravager won't swing the game to a loss if they are behind. The only potential top-deck card that can swing a game that much is etched champion, and only if they are not too far behind.
I have extensive experience against Affinity. Both as an ex-affinity pilot and as well as plenty of reps against the deck as a Jeski Pilot.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Against a top deck verdict does nothing. They top deck plating active blinkmoth and kill you while you sit with your verdict in hand.
You run 20+ ways to kill a blink moth (bolt, path, helix, snapcaster, celestial colonnade, spell queller). If a top deck plating + blinkmoth kills you - you are not ahead. You are behind. Very very very far behind. You may have stabilized but you are still behind. Hence my comment below
EDIT: Also - if a top decked cranial plating + blinkmoth activation kills you, chances are a top decked galvanic blast would also kill you. At that point the only thing you can do is pray you draw a helix... and fast.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I don't know what you are smoking but Collonade active and block is SIX mana.
We are talking about top-decking situations. Those typically don't occur till after turn 4.
Typically turn 5/6 by the time Jeski exhausts all of it's resources.
Also - casting cranial plating, activating blink moth, and equipping takes 5 mana. Affinity is not going to have that much mana before turn 4/5.
Unless they drew very well... and in that case the Jeskai Player is behind. See my earlier comment.
Or unless they flood out... and if that is the case blinkmoth + cranial plating isn't going to kill you.
EDIT: do you play this matchup much? Because having 5 mana for affinity before turn 6 is very rare unless they flood out. They don't want that much mana available 0_o.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I've tried to be reasonable with you but it doesn't work. I don't like to be trolled. Ignore button time.
You are not reasonable.
In order to cast cranial plating, activate blink moth, equip blink moth, and swing the affinity player would need 6 mana sources including the blinkmoth. (or 5 other mana sources). That is why I mentioned colonnade. Because I assumed it was turn 6 if the affinity player has that much left-over mana and you didn't have a way to directly kill a blink-moth.
I assumed you were talking about casting and equipping and swinging in the same turn.
If that is not what you were saying I apologize.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Not quite the bob argument. The problem - rejection is extremely narrow. The fact that it "doesn't always work" and is only really excellent and/or needed in a single matchup makes its inclusion hard to justify. At a large event (GP)... you are only going to fave 3-4 Eldrazi Tron players at max.
It's hard (for me) to justify sb slot for just 30% of your games. Likewise it would be hard to justify playing Jund/Bob if the deck was only good vs 30% of the meta.
EDIT: Day 2 of the last star-city games open only had 11% Eldrazi Tron representation day 2.
If you only play 2-3 eldrazi tron in 15 matches.... I am not sure it's worth inclusion.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
On a non-related note: has anyone ever used mtgo tickets new mtgo trading manatraders? I might try it out to play test this deck on mtgo (opt now legal).
4x Celestial Colonnade
1x Desolate Lighthouse
4x Flooded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
Enchantment (1)
1x Cast Out
2x Cryptic Command
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
3x Logic Knot
4x Opt
4x Path to Exile
3x Remand
Creature (12)
2x Restoration Angel
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Spell Queller
2x Vendilion Clique
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Cast Out
2x Disdainful Stroke
2x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Negate
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Stony Silence
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Wear // Tear
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Anyway this horse is dead... what works for you might not work for everyone else...
Edit: if youre new to mtgo i like mtgotraders and use discountcode redditpaypal to initially get your cards.. ive never used manatraders so cant comment...
True. Cast out is also instant though. Main reason it intrigues me. (plus it cycles).
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Did you actually read the printed words? I never said it was bad. In fact, there are very few who actually said it was bad. My point is that some of you are clutching Ceremonious Rejection like there's so little chance to beat them without it. I personally know via testing that even with it, your odds don't swing that greatly, but it's really the only way to beat a turn 2 Chalice of the Void for X = 1. That's the very reason any Jeskai pilots play it. Yeah, it's also good against the rest of the deck, but so are a lot of other cards. Moreover, our chance to beat them seems to rely more on the Eldrazi Tron players draws more than anything. If they get the right draw, good luck. If they don't, you're still having to play around certain topdecks. djphan was trying to make a particular point that, if it's so good and versatile, why aren't we slamming 4 into our sideboards? I'm not saying I wouldn't play the card at all. I obviously do and have pointed out that it's good, but some of you just seem intellectually boring in this department. Instead of trying to prod more discussion for different methods, you'd rather just put others down because apparently we don't get it. Really?
Critical thinking ya'll. It's not a diss. Sometimes, it's just about exploring options. Jesus, even Reddit isn't this bad.