Yea, elspeth is good vs eldrazi tron, but its still a 6-mana sorcery thats primarily useful in a matchup we have better cards for.
Not a big keranos fan either, but ajani is definitely one of the best walkers to play.
TBH, I could even see playing a singleton nahiri, primarily for value/removal, and potential to bluff combo, but that seems kind of loose.
Yea, elspeth is good vs eldrazi tron, but its still a 6-mana sorcery thats primarily useful in a matchup we have better cards for.
Not a big keranos fan either, but ajani is definitely one of the best walkers to play.
TBH, I could even see playing a singleton nahiri, primarily for value/removal, and potential to bluff combo, but that seems kind of loose.
Yea my options if I don't play elspeth are second supreme verdict, blessed alliance, ajani (which I'm not sure I like? not sure what decks I'd want it in vs), or second anger.
Ajani is very good against burn for obv reasons but also great vs GDS..
Its good to very good against gbx and UW.. its ok in jeskai mirror.. it also has value against most small creature matchups if youre in a controlling/burn shell...
I also like blessed alliance esp if geist decks become popular and some titanshift lists have been running gaeas revenge in the board...
Ajani is very good against burn for obv reasons but also great vs GDS..
Its good to very good against gbx and UW.. its ok in jeskai mirror.. it also has value against most small creature matchups if youre in a controlling/burn shell...
I also like blessed alliance esp if geist decks become popular and some titanshift lists have been running gaeas revenge in the board...
I feel like I want my last sb slot to be something that would be good vs my worst matchups (eldrazi, scapeshift, etc.) but still have applications towards grindy matchups. I just don't know what that would be lol.
the way to fight all those decks is very different... so there isn't a magic bullet vs all of them unless you side in blood moon...
I've been kicking that idea around lately, but haven't been too serious about it. Has anyone actual tried to make Blood Moon work from the SB?
i haven't ran games with it but it's not viable... jeskai has run blood moon in the past but that was specifically for amulet... and was pretty much one of the only ways to hose that deck... right now it's really only good vs scapeshift... quite effective but they have outs to it since they have rec sage and/or naturalize... etron has map and you have path which means they'll eventually draw out of it...
but the biggest problem is running logic knot or cryptic... you can't have any UU or WW costed cards when you board it in... gbx and grixis has less color requirement than you do.. they only need GB or UB and they can cast everything... and you having path means they'll probably get there at some point.. and they'll fetch basics if you start doing so in any case...
the etron matchup is just difficult... i don't board for it specifically... it'll take mainboarding spreading seas and then boarding in another round of cards to make it viable and i just don't think it's worth it...
Its possible to build a jeskai deck with blood moon, but its not inherently a winning proposition.
Path to exile and blood moon have obvious disynergy (and they have a lot of matchup overlap in tron/eldrazi/valakut which makes it even worse).
Cryptic becomes nearly impossible to run, and double blue for clique, logic knot, snap + blue spell, etc, becomes harder. On top of that, blood moon encourages a lot of "Draw, mountain, go. Draw, mountain, go." which makes mana leak weaker.
Yea, playing geist and spell queller and remand in conjunction with blood moon is going to work some percentage of the time, the entire actual deck feels like too much of a pile.
Is it too much to ask for back to basics in modern?
Ajani is very good against burn for obv reasons but also great vs GDS..
Its good to very good against gbx and UW.. its ok in jeskai mirror.. it also has value against most small creature matchups if youre in a controlling/burn shell...
I also like blessed alliance esp if geist decks become popular and some titanshift lists have been running gaeas revenge in the board...
I feel like I want my last sb slot to be something that would be good vs my worst matchups (eldrazi, scapeshift, etc.) but still have applications towards grindy matchups. I just don't know what that would be lol.
I don't see why the big mana sideboard slots (E Tron, Valakut) should also help in grindy MUs. They're two different things. And my feeling is I can outgrind 90% of the format anyway when I'm playing this deck, and the benefit of adding something like Elspeth is very narrow, especially since she's not very good vs blue based control decks.
All of that being said, you could go the Molten Rain/Surgical Extraction route. Molten Rain is fine in grindy MUs. Nice vs Valakut and Tron. But only decent vs Eldrazi Tron.
I wouldn't mix these different sideboard slots. We have access to some very specific cards that are super efficient at doing what they do. These cards are Ceremonious Rejection, Spreading Seas, Shadow of Doubt, Disdainful Stroke and Counterflux. You should fight Eldrazi Tron and Valakut with some of these. Grindy MUs should be positive already, and can be improved with cards that we can use for other things as well, such as Supreme Verdict or Timely Reinforcements.
the etron matchup is just difficult... i don't board for it specifically... it'll take mainboarding spreading seas and then boarding in another round of cards to make it viable and i just don't think it's worth it...
Eldrazi Tron is tier 1. You can't afford that type of reasoning if you want to play in any relevant tournament. Maybe if you're lucky you don't have any E Tron pilot in your local store, but in any big event, you'll have to face them and if you're not prepared they will utterly crush you.
I think I might just go with purge. Seems like most decks run one
Playing multiple anger of the gods in the 75 is a reasonable hedge against dredge and gives utility vs other match-ups as well, but the MU is still hard.
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Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
Weird question: why do most deck lists play one of celestial purge in the SB?
Seems kind of weird with Liliana's seeing less play. What would you bring it in vs besides grixis death shadow?
It's flexible enough, it can pick up creatures like Goblin Guide or Electromancer every now and then, and most importantly, Blood Moon.
You should be, in most cases, able to play around blood moon anyways (unless its Ponza).
I find it laughable and infuriating when Jund, Grixis, etc. try to bring Blood Moon vs us. 70-80% of the time it does not work. ._.
Yeah, those decks should never board in Moon against any non-Tron/valakut deck. It does become tricker when your opponent's gameplan pushes you to use your mana (Storm, UR Moon garbage, Ponza, etc...).
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How can this deck beat dredge or other grave strategies without playing rip?
Moreover is it worth to dedicate slots to eldrazi,valakut and grave strategies?
Good questions.
It's VERY difficult for this deck to beat Dredge without some number of RIP in the sideboard. A couple of relics or Surgicals usually aren't close to as powerful. And in response to an earlier question, NEVER sideboard your RIP in against the mirror. They are solid against Grixis but they aren't worth it against other control decks. Some people are hoping to avois the match-up and focus their sideboard on other match-ups. It's a dice roll sort of thing. You can't be good against everything. The format is much too diverse for that these days.
It's definitely worth it to dedicate sideboard slots to Eldrazi, Valakut, and/or grave strategies because those are the decks you are most-likely to lose against. Would you rather have a sideboard full of cards that pack a BIG punch or a bunch of cards that are just marginally better than the cards you are taking out?
Eldrazi Tron is tier 1. You can't afford that type of reasoning if you want to play in any relevant tournament. Maybe if you're lucky you don't have any E Tron pilot in your local store, but in any big event, you'll have to face them and if you're not prepared they will utterly crush you.
When you play a tourney... you have to dodge or overcome unfavorable things along the way... every deck goes through it and every t1 deck has other unfavorable matchups that they have to deal with and not all of them devote narroe sb cards specifically for it...
Its not like i dont bring in sideboard cards but they are cards that are powerful in the other unfavorable matchups also... and i favor those over rejection or disdainful stroke or spreading seas... deck slots are prime real estate...
Its possible to build a jeskai deck with blood moon, but its not inherently a winning proposition.
Path to exile and blood moon have obvious disynergy (and they have a lot of matchup overlap in tron/eldrazi/valakut which makes it even worse).
Cryptic becomes nearly impossible to run, and double blue for clique, logic knot, snap + blue spell, etc, becomes harder. On top of that, blood moon encourages a lot of "Draw, mountain, go. Draw, mountain, go." which makes mana leak weaker.
Yea, playing geist and spell queller and remand in conjunction with blood moon is going to work some percentage of the time, the entire actual deck feels like too much of a pile.
Is it too much to ask for back to basics in modern?
Appreciate all the responses. I think this is the most succinct reason -- it's possible, but requires boarding out much of what I'd want versus them in addition to Blood Moon (Path, Clique, Knot, etc.). May still be a marginal upgrade but it's not as decisive a % bump as I'd hope when Blood Moon isn't necessarily an "I win" sideboard card against them.
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Not a big keranos fan either, but ajani is definitely one of the best walkers to play.
TBH, I could even see playing a singleton nahiri, primarily for value/removal, and potential to bluff combo, but that seems kind of loose.
Yea my options if I don't play elspeth are second supreme verdict, blessed alliance, ajani (which I'm not sure I like? not sure what decks I'd want it in vs), or second anger.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Its good to very good against gbx and UW.. its ok in jeskai mirror.. it also has value against most small creature matchups if youre in a controlling/burn shell...
I also like blessed alliance esp if geist decks become popular and some titanshift lists have been running gaeas revenge in the board...
I feel like I want my last sb slot to be something that would be good vs my worst matchups (eldrazi, scapeshift, etc.) but still have applications towards grindy matchups. I just don't know what that would be lol.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
That's why I liked elspeth, because it was good vs both eldrazi and gbx (pretty much lights out).
It yea it's so much mana : /.
Maybe it's better to just have a one of purge
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I've been kicking that idea around lately, but haven't been too serious about it. Has anyone actual tried to make Blood Moon work from the SB?
If you want a card that's acceptable vs all 3, you probably want Runed Halo.
i haven't ran games with it but it's not viable... jeskai has run blood moon in the past but that was specifically for amulet... and was pretty much one of the only ways to hose that deck... right now it's really only good vs scapeshift... quite effective but they have outs to it since they have rec sage and/or naturalize... etron has map and you have path which means they'll eventually draw out of it...
but the biggest problem is running logic knot or cryptic... you can't have any UU or WW costed cards when you board it in... gbx and grixis has less color requirement than you do.. they only need GB or UB and they can cast everything... and you having path means they'll probably get there at some point.. and they'll fetch basics if you start doing so in any case...
the etron matchup is just difficult... i don't board for it specifically... it'll take mainboarding spreading seas and then boarding in another round of cards to make it viable and i just don't think it's worth it...
Path to exile and blood moon have obvious disynergy (and they have a lot of matchup overlap in tron/eldrazi/valakut which makes it even worse).
Cryptic becomes nearly impossible to run, and double blue for clique, logic knot, snap + blue spell, etc, becomes harder. On top of that, blood moon encourages a lot of "Draw, mountain, go. Draw, mountain, go." which makes mana leak weaker.
Yea, playing geist and spell queller and remand in conjunction with blood moon is going to work some percentage of the time, the entire actual deck feels like too much of a pile.
Is it too much to ask for back to basics in modern?
I think I might just go with purge. Seems like most decks run one
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
Seems kind of weird with Liliana's seeing less play. What would you bring it in vs besides grixis death shadow?
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
UWGBant EldraziUWGDecided I don't like Todd Stevens decks.UBRGrixis ControlUBR
UUUAnd anything that plays 4x Cryptic CommandUUU
You should be, in most cases, able to play around blood moon anyways (unless its Ponza).
I find it laughable and infuriating when Jund, Grixis, etc. try to bring Blood Moon vs us. 70-80% of the time it does not work. ._.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
UWGBant EldraziUWGDecided I don't like Todd Stevens decks.UBRGrixis ControlUBR
UUUAnd anything that plays 4x Cryptic CommandUUU
Good questions.
It's VERY difficult for this deck to beat Dredge without some number of RIP in the sideboard. A couple of relics or Surgicals usually aren't close to as powerful. And in response to an earlier question, NEVER sideboard your RIP in against the mirror. They are solid against Grixis but they aren't worth it against other control decks. Some people are hoping to avois the match-up and focus their sideboard on other match-ups. It's a dice roll sort of thing. You can't be good against everything. The format is much too diverse for that these days.
It's definitely worth it to dedicate sideboard slots to Eldrazi, Valakut, and/or grave strategies because those are the decks you are most-likely to lose against. Would you rather have a sideboard full of cards that pack a BIG punch or a bunch of cards that are just marginally better than the cards you are taking out?
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
When you play a tourney... you have to dodge or overcome unfavorable things along the way... every deck goes through it and every t1 deck has other unfavorable matchups that they have to deal with and not all of them devote narroe sb cards specifically for it...
Its not like i dont bring in sideboard cards but they are cards that are powerful in the other unfavorable matchups also... and i favor those over rejection or disdainful stroke or spreading seas... deck slots are prime real estate...
Appreciate all the responses. I think this is the most succinct reason -- it's possible, but requires boarding out much of what I'd want versus them in addition to Blood Moon (Path, Clique, Knot, etc.). May still be a marginal upgrade but it's not as decisive a % bump as I'd hope when Blood Moon isn't necessarily an "I win" sideboard card against them.