I like Sulfur Falls if I'm leaning more towards control rather than a slow Burn deck. I will say though that Spirebluff Canal is really good when your metagame is infested with Burn mages.
It's not that either is good or bad.
My comments were on three copies of Sulfur Falls+4 Collonades+ other non-mountain, non-islands leads to a lot of hands with tapped land on T1 and tapped land on T2.
I like Sulfur Falls if I'm leaning more towards control rather than a slow Burn deck. I will say though that Spirebluff Canal is really good when your metagame is infested with Burn mages.
It's not that either is good or bad.
My comments were on three copies of Sulfur Falls+4 Collonades+ other non-mountain, non-islands leads to a lot of hands with tapped land on T1 and tapped land on T2.
Playing two sulfur falls vs three isn't going to make a huge statistical difference. I think you were just making an ill attempt to discredit me.
I dont agree with remand.Remand is way too good from my expirience.when they play with cryptics just remamd it.they meed 4 mana to cast it again.or even if they counter remand you have used 2 mana and they have used at least five.Remand its kind the jack of all trades .ana leak is decent cause it will give value at some point in a counter war.Moreover clique is bonkers.instant speed creature that gives me info on my opp hand?count me in !
I'd rather just Logic Knot that Cryptic. I don't like their hand getting bigger and bigger. And this is from someone who tries to play the tempo game in these situations. "Send Cryptic to your graveyard" is just strictly more powerful than "Send Cryptic to your hand and draw a card".
Clique is fine, yes. But it's a matter of priority. If I have to chose between her and Geist, I go with Geist.
Rest in Peace is good against Grixis. They often Thoughtseize it from my hand over cards like Snapcaster, Path, etc.
It depends on their hand. I've never liked siding in RIP in the control mirror. It's too hit or miss from my experience.
There are times when it will hurt you more than it will hurt them.
Also, that logic doesn't make much sense. My opponents have me discarding all sort of cards, doesn't mean they were the right call. And even assuming they made the right call, it may have been the right call in that specific situation (because of the type of hand they had, etc), but doesn't mean it's the best gameplan.
My opinion on RIP in control mirrors is that yet again it depends on the build you're playing. Slow builds (Nahiri, Gearhulk draw-go etc) might want to use RIP. However, for tempoey builds with Queller, Geist and a lot of burn like the ones I like to play, it's different. You're essentially tossing a coin when playing RIP, it could end up hurting you more than them. Snapcaster Mage is the best card of the deck and it's particularly important in grindy MUs. It could be the last burn spell you're missing or the way to grind them out with Cryptic. It's the same reason why I don't like RIP vs BGx. I'd rather deal with their Goyf than lose my Snapcasters.
Plus, there's Logic Knot, and that's another card you don't want to lose in these type of MUs.
And finally I will add that it's not a good tempo play. If I see an opening instead of playing RIP I'd rather throw a Geist and start hitting the gas.
The only GBx deck I like RIP vs is Abzan, and that's only if I am not playing staticaster in the board. (lingering souls is a bigger problem than goyfs).
I'd much rather play staticaster though.
Aaaand...Harlan Firer has taken down the Louisville Open. Usual maindeck with Queller, Geist and Burn but this time he put 2 Spell Snares in there. He made a few changes in the sideboard. He defeated another Jeskai in the final, very similar build.
I was pretty happy to see that being a Jeskai Geist man since basically forever.
I think spell snare was the card that made him to win the mirror in the final! I think it is a nice addition, especially now that we see much more GBx and blue based control/midranges!
I think him having access to two dispels helped as well.
The really weird part is that there is a dedicated UWR Geist/midrange subforum. I'm not sure why that's sitting in Developing Competitive while this generic thread was bumped to tier 2.
The really weird part is that there is a dedicated UWR Geist/midrange subforum. I'm not sure why that's sitting in Developing Competitive while this generic thread was bumped to tier 2.
The really weird part is that there is a dedicated UWR Geist/midrange subforum. I'm not sure why that's sitting in Developing Competitive while this generic thread was bumped to tier 2.
This thread was original jeskai nahiri (which was tier 1 for a bit)
The really weird part is that there is a dedicated UWR Geist/midrange subforum. I'm not sure why that's sitting in Developing Competitive while this generic thread was bumped to tier 2.
The really weird part is that there is a dedicated UWR Geist/midrange subforum. I'm not sure why that's sitting in Developing Competitive while this generic thread was bumped to tier 2.
This thread was original jeskai nahiri (which was tier 1 for a bit)
That doesn't explain why the deck that's largely responsible for Jeskai being relevant (based on tourney results) is still in Developing Conpetitive or why the thread that was dedicated to "control" got moved up.
The really weird part is that there is a dedicated UWR Geist/midrange subforum. I'm not sure why that's sitting in Developing Competitive while this generic thread was bumped to tier 2.
The really weird part is that there is a dedicated UWR Geist/midrange subforum. I'm not sure why that's sitting in Developing Competitive while this generic thread was bumped to tier 2.
This thread was original jeskai nahiri (which was tier 1 for a bit)
That doesn't explain why the deck that's largely responsible for Jeskai being relevant (based on tourney results) is still in Developing Conpetitive or why the thread that was dedicated to "control" got moved up.
Not keeping things as updated. The entire tier system has been wacky ever since the main thread moderator left.
The really weird part is that there is a dedicated UWR Geist/midrange subforum. I'm not sure why that's sitting in Developing Competitive while this generic thread was bumped to tier 2.
The really weird part is that there is a dedicated UWR Geist/midrange subforum. I'm not sure why that's sitting in Developing Competitive while this generic thread was bumped to tier 2.
This thread was original jeskai nahiri (which was tier 1 for a bit)
That doesn't explain why the deck that's largely responsible for Jeskai being relevant (based on tourney results) is still in Developing Conpetitive or why the thread that was dedicated to "control" got moved up.
At one point there where 4 or 5 UWR threads, someone needed to organize and unite the tribes as it were, but it never happened. :]
Part of the reason is also that the current Jeskai Queller/Geist lists aint' really "Jeskai Control", but they ain't "Jeskai Geist" either. I mean, much like Great Nate, I used to play Jeskai Geist years ago, and that was a different deck, much more focused on executing a specific gameplan for Geist (with cards to protect him like Restoration Angel or Elspeth Knight-Errant). That deck was playing 1 to 0 Cryptic and usually no Electrolyze. And we were playing 4x Mana Leak and there was no Queller back then. I think the lists guys like Firer and Rosum (or myself) are playing now aren't exactly "midrange" builds, I think they're a mix of different things. A mix of the best things you can do with Jeskai. There are tempo elements, control elements and midrange elements. And you can adapt your gameplan according to the opponent.
So it couldn't be that decks just change over time and with the metagame? I mean this is a pointless argument, but since we seem to like doing this here....
I've been thinking over the advice you guys have given me on the Grixis Control MU and solidified my position in regards to sideboard.
I will continue to bring in Rest in Peace, but am more and more coming around to the fact that this may be the only Control MU it is worth it in. I previously had used it in Jeskai Mirror and Esper match-ups but I agree it's not worth in those. I've decided to only board in 2 out of 3 RIP since multiples are not great, and this is not like Dredge or Living end where i NEED RIP on turn 2. Spell Quellers come out since it's a removal-laden match-up.
My new sideboard plan for Grixis Control would be;
I would call this thread simply jeskai. If you give a loot at jund or abzan the creatures and spells keep changing and adapting to the metagame but despite that the name of the deck remains the same.
So it couldn't be that decks just change over time and with the metagame? I mean this is a pointless argument, but since we seem to like doing this here....
Yea sure decks change over time but that's not the point I was making. The point I was making is the Harlan Firer type list is a "hybrid" and it's a different thing than the old midrangey Jeskai Geist. For that reason, it's not out of place here in this thread, nor in that one for the matter. It straddles the different archetypes. It's more controllish than a Geist list, but more tempoey/midrangey than a draw-go or Nahiri build. It's a middle way.
So I also happen to think there should be 1 thread named "Jeskai" that should include all non-Saheeli lists.
I intended long ago to write up a high level of each of the UWR decks, never got around to it but like Jund, and Junk, there are a lot of shared cards in UWR, when looking at Bolt, Helix, Snaps, Cryptics, the Lands, Serum, Snare, Path, the sideboards...and so on.
So I revised my post-opt deck list. This 75 is exactly what I plan to bring to the fist modern event a week from Friday.
Fixed the mana base a little bit (should be playing x2 hallow fountains in the current meta). I hope it lives up to my expectations haha. I am still not 100% certain on elspeth in the sb.
Definitely don't like elspeth here. Ajani vengeant, 4 mana elspeth, 3/4/5 mana gideon, etc, all are generally better in jeskai, IMO. Ajani especially is quite good right now, I feel.
Definitely don't like elspeth here. Ajani vengeant, 4 mana elspeth, 3/4/5 mana gideon, etc, all are generally better in jeskai, IMO. Ajani especially is quite good right now, I feel.
It's also good vs Eldrazi Tron. But yes. Supreme Verdict might just be better at that point.
Playing two sulfur falls vs three isn't going to make a huge statistical difference. I think you were just making an ill attempt to discredit me.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
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Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
The only GBx deck I like RIP vs is Abzan, and that's only if I am not playing staticaster in the board. (lingering souls is a bigger problem than goyfs).
I'd much rather play staticaster though.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I was pretty happy to see that being a Jeskai Geist man since basically forever.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
I think him having access to two dispels helped as well.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
This thread was original jeskai nahiri (which was tier 1 for a bit)
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
That doesn't explain why the deck that's largely responsible for Jeskai being relevant (based on tourney results) is still in Developing Conpetitive or why the thread that was dedicated to "control" got moved up.
Not keeping things as updated. The entire tier system has been wacky ever since the main thread moderator left.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
At one point there where 4 or 5 UWR threads, someone needed to organize and unite the tribes as it were, but it never happened. :]
Spirits
So it couldn't be that decks just change over time and with the metagame? I mean this is a pointless argument, but since we seem to like doing this here....
I will continue to bring in Rest in Peace, but am more and more coming around to the fact that this may be the only Control MU it is worth it in. I previously had used it in Jeskai Mirror and Esper match-ups but I agree it's not worth in those. I've decided to only board in 2 out of 3 RIP since multiples are not great, and this is not like Dredge or Living end where i NEED RIP on turn 2. Spell Quellers come out since it's a removal-laden match-up.
My new sideboard plan for Grixis Control would be;
+2 Rest in Peace
+1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Counterflux
+1 Negate
+1 Dispel
-4 Spell Queller
-1 Lightning Bolt
-1 Lightning Helix
My updated list from last week (exactly the same but last post I neglected to include the Resto)
1x Desolate Lighthouse
3x Celestial Colonnade
3x Flooded Strand
3x Scalding Tarn
1x Arid Mesa
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Steam Vents
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Spirebluff Canal
1x Sulfur Falls
3x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain
4x Serum Visions
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
3x Lightning Helix
1x Remand
2x Mana Leak
1x Logic Knot
2x Electrolyze
3x Cryptic Command
Creatures (13)
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Spell Queller
1x Vendilion Clique
3x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Restoration Angel
1x Dispel
1x Negate
1x Counterflux
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Wear // Tear
2x Shadow of Doubt
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Rest in Peace
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
How are the new geist lists more "controlish" than, say, Vjeran Horvat's GP Prague winning list?:
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=6436&d=236995
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
I'm not even sure what deck you would bring it in vs.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Spirits
Fixed the mana base a little bit (should be playing x2 hallow fountains in the current meta). I hope it lives up to my expectations haha. I am still not 100% certain on elspeth in the sb.
4x Celestial Colonnade
1x Desolate Lighthouse
4x Flooded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
2x Cryptic Command
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
3x Logic Knot
4x Opt
4x Path to Exile
3x Remand
Creature (13)
3x Restoration Angel
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Spell Queller
2x Vendilion Clique
1x Anger of the Gods
2x Disdainful Stroke
2x Dispel
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Negate
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Stony Silence
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Wear // Tear
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
i do like ajani and/or keranos since its relevant in more matchups and alot easier to cast...
It's also good vs Eldrazi Tron. But yes. Supreme Verdict might just be better at that point.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA