I run Familiar because I am currently on a lighter blue splash (10 sources) so Wanderer isn't always the better choice but once you start running Vendilion amd other UU cards that your mana base has to account for its probably the better, more aggressive choice.
This is my latest version of the deck minus the sideboard. So far it has been incredibly consistent as it's based around simple concepts and maximising them.
I'm loving this list. The consistency is something I really appreciate. I've long played with eight full land destruction spells, and I really appreciate the Judge's Familiars - although right now I'm rocking 3 Kytheons.
How has your testing been? What MU's are strengthened by this list - I imagine Bant Eldrazi, Merfolk, Elves - and which ones are weakened (maybe Tron? Some Control variants)?
Have you considered splitting the Aven Mindcensors's with 2x Vryn Wingmares? Same body, but work towards the taxing approach. And is the full 4 Magus of the Moats necessary? Doesn't it suck to draw more than two of them? Sure, they are juicy bolt targets - but what isn't? How many games do you die because you drew three Magi?
Anyhow, sweet brew - I love the simplicity and consistency this list offers. It's the sort of streamlined approach that I think Mono-White DnT can provide.
what are the benefits of playing Eldrazi and taxes over Bant eldrazi. Why do you play Eldrazi and taxes instead of bant eldrazi.
Playstyle. Don't get me wrong I love Midrange decks, but EnT allows me to attack other decks from angles that are unique to it. EnT gets Flickerwisp, Thalia, Tidehollow Sculler, Wasteland Strangler and Aether Vial. Leonin Arbiter is nice too but not a deal breaker in my choice. It also is part of a core deck that is highly customizable and flexible. I am not tied down strictly to Eldrazi creatures. I can run Mono White, W/B, W/U, and W/G anytime I want and will probably one day get the pieces for W/R. I can move more towards a W/G or W/B hatebears list or build Little Kid Azban with my pieces. The deck also has a bit of an unknown factor which can make ot frustrating for opponents to play against. Bant Eldrazi is great and a tier one threat but it doesnt delegitimize EnT in my eyes. Finally EnT and DnT in general are easier to build to take on a meta without diluting a core gameplan.
what are the benefits of playing Eldrazi and taxes over Bant eldrazi. Why do you play Eldrazi and taxes instead of bant eldrazi.
Aside from the fact that players who play D&T/E&T/hatebears simply tend to enjoy and love the archetype and nuances that go into playing the deck, E&T and Bant Eldrazi have very different matchup dynamics. E&T has more hand disruption, and hate/tax effects, which give it a better time against combo decks. Flickerwisp + Eldrazi Displacer is extremely powerful (along with whatever else can go with it). E&T in my experience is also pretty favoured against Bant Eldrazi, so there's that.
I'm getting into modern, and BW Eldrazi and Taxes looks exactly like the kind of deck I want to be playing. I have one question, though. Why aren't any lists running matter reshaper? It seems like pretty good value in the deck, considering that it hits everything that isn't TKS or Path.
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After a time testing the WB Eldrazi and Taxes list, I understood 2 things.
1. Its more disruption than tempo (Arbiter, Displacer, Sculler, Thought-knot, SB removal...). So, when building a mono-W D&T I do have tempo in mind, but when building a BW E&T build I have disruption in mind; I have won more games with this build by depleting my opponent hand and not letting him draw/target my creatures than building a fast tempo (ofc, Leonin + GQ in a good tempo game can win the match alone).
2. Thought-Knot Seer maybe not that good at a 4-of. It sure is a beast, but once our opponent has only lands in hand, or maybe 1/2 instants, Thought-Knot is "only" a 4/4 that can make our opponent draw a card.
So, what are your thoughts? Btw, I think this build can do pretty things.
Thought-Knot Seer maybe not that good at a 4-of. It sure is a beast, but once our opponent has only lands in hand, or maybe 1/2 instants, Thought-Knot is "only" a 4/4 that can make our opponent draw a card.
I don't think that's such a good way of thinking about things. If you're in this sort of position that you describe, chances are you are well on your way to winning. Playing the maximum number of TKS's maximizes the chances of putting yourself in such a scenario. As you said, hand disruption is BW's biggest strength in pushing you forward, sometimes this will take multiple TKS's.
Ive been testing the B/W eldrazi build and how do you all that main if deal with the mana issues? I lose so many games just to stuck on mana/colors. Do you aggressively mull if you don't see a black/white/wastes in opener? Build seems good but the mana issues are just way to much for me even consider the deck in its current form. Just for reference I was using 4 caves of koilos, 4 concealed courtyards, 2 godless shrines, 2 plains, 1 swamp, 1 waste, fetid heath, 4 GQs, 1 tec edge, 4 eldrazi temples.
You need taxing creatures (Thalia, Arbiter, Mindcensor), disruption creatures (Tidehollow Sculler, Thought-Knot Seer, Wasteland Strangler...), or value ETB creatures (Displacer, Blade Slicer, Flickerwisp, Restoration Angel...).
There is not space for more in BW E&T, IMO.
so im running 4 of all the main stuff, thalia, arbiter, displacer, sculler, strangler, wisp, seer, so thats 28. then 4 vials and 4 paths and 22 lands. that leaves 2 flex spots. thing i'm noticing with copter is that it speeds up the clock, essentially giving our creatures haste. it provides a better avenue of attack for our hatebears since they can fly over blockers. also it's a hedge against board wipes as you can just slam a creature the following turn and start the party again. lastly because it filters cards it can keep the gas tank full for those grindy match ups.
Seconded on Selfless Spirit. Sweepers that don't get caught by hand disruption are a real problem for E&T, and the Spirit addresses that nicely. It's also handy as a flying attacker and as a combat trick (which is relevant because apart from Eldrazi Displacer, E&T sucks at evading blockers, and even that card is mana-intensive).
Seconded on Selfless Spirit. Sweepers that don't get caught by hand disruption are a real problem for E&T, and the Spirit addresses that nicely. It's also handy as a flying attacker and as a combat trick (which is relevant because apart from Eldrazi Displacer, E&T sucks at evading blockers, and even that card is mana-intensive).
I really don't see Smuggler's Copter in a Lightning Bolt format: what makes it so good is the lack of good instant removal in standard. Still, everyone can be wrong try it if you want and report on it.
Like I said above, I'm new to both modern and the deck. This is what I plan on running. The maindeck isn't too innovative, though I am wondering if I should up the count of selfless spirits. I'm mostly looking for any tips on the sideboard. What should I be packing? Thanks!
My impression is that playing Wasteland Strangler isn't worth it without a consistent way to get your opponent's cards into exile. Consider putting RIP / relics / bojuka bog in the main if you're intent on Stranglers..
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I run Familiar because I am currently on a lighter blue splash (10 sources) so Wanderer isn't always the better choice but once you start running Vendilion amd other UU cards that your mana base has to account for its probably the better, more aggressive choice.
I'm loving this list. The consistency is something I really appreciate. I've long played with eight full land destruction spells, and I really appreciate the Judge's Familiars - although right now I'm rocking 3 Kytheons.
How has your testing been? What MU's are strengthened by this list - I imagine Bant Eldrazi, Merfolk, Elves - and which ones are weakened (maybe Tron? Some Control variants)?
Have you considered splitting the Aven Mindcensors's with 2x Vryn Wingmares? Same body, but work towards the taxing approach. And is the full 4 Magus of the Moats necessary? Doesn't it suck to draw more than two of them? Sure, they are juicy bolt targets - but what isn't? How many games do you die because you drew three Magi?
Anyhow, sweet brew - I love the simplicity and consistency this list offers. It's the sort of streamlined approach that I think Mono-White DnT can provide.
UBRWGHumansUBRWG
UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron
Legacy
WDeath & TaxesW
Pauper
RGoblinsR
EDH
UGMerfolk ComboGU
Standard
UWApproachWU
Playstyle. Don't get me wrong I love Midrange decks, but EnT allows me to attack other decks from angles that are unique to it. EnT gets Flickerwisp, Thalia, Tidehollow Sculler, Wasteland Strangler and Aether Vial. Leonin Arbiter is nice too but not a deal breaker in my choice. It also is part of a core deck that is highly customizable and flexible. I am not tied down strictly to Eldrazi creatures. I can run Mono White, W/B, W/U, and W/G anytime I want and will probably one day get the pieces for W/R. I can move more towards a W/G or W/B hatebears list or build Little Kid Azban with my pieces. The deck also has a bit of an unknown factor which can make ot frustrating for opponents to play against. Bant Eldrazi is great and a tier one threat but it doesnt delegitimize EnT in my eyes. Finally EnT and DnT in general are easier to build to take on a meta without diluting a core gameplan.
Aside from the fact that players who play D&T/E&T/hatebears simply tend to enjoy and love the archetype and nuances that go into playing the deck, E&T and Bant Eldrazi have very different matchup dynamics. E&T has more hand disruption, and hate/tax effects, which give it a better time against combo decks. Flickerwisp + Eldrazi Displacer is extremely powerful (along with whatever else can go with it). E&T in my experience is also pretty favoured against Bant Eldrazi, so there's that.
Twitch: Artificier10
MTGO and Discord: PollenProphet
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
GWUKnightfallGWU
UBRGrixis ShadowUBR
(Flickerwisp, Wasteland Strangler, Blade Splicer, Kitchen Finks, Eldrazi Displacer, Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Kambal, Consul of Allocation).
In Mono White E&T it can fit rather well imho
(unless you prefer something like Mirran Crusader/Brimaz, King of Oreskos or the taxing flyers: Aven Mindcensor/Vryn Wingmare).
1. Its more disruption than tempo (Arbiter, Displacer, Sculler, Thought-knot, SB removal...). So, when building a mono-W D&T I do have tempo in mind, but when building a BW E&T build I have disruption in mind; I have won more games with this build by depleting my opponent hand and not letting him draw/target my creatures than building a fast tempo (ofc, Leonin + GQ in a good tempo game can win the match alone).
2. Thought-Knot Seer maybe not that good at a 4-of. It sure is a beast, but once our opponent has only lands in hand, or maybe 1/2 instants, Thought-Knot is "only" a 4/4 that can make our opponent draw a card.
So, what are your thoughts? Btw, I think this build can do pretty things.
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
3 Plains
1 Swamp
Utility
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Blade Splicer
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Restoration Angel
1 Stony Silence
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
3 Lingering Souls
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Dismember
1 Collective Brutality
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Celestial Purge
I don't think that's such a good way of thinking about things. If you're in this sort of position that you describe, chances are you are well on your way to winning. Playing the maximum number of TKS's maximizes the chances of putting yourself in such a scenario. As you said, hand disruption is BW's biggest strength in pushing you forward, sometimes this will take multiple TKS's.
You need taxing creatures (Thalia, Arbiter, Mindcensor), disruption creatures (Tidehollow Sculler, Thought-Knot Seer, Wasteland Strangler...), or value ETB creatures (Displacer, Blade Slicer, Flickerwisp, Restoration Angel...).
There is not space for more in BW E&T, IMO.
Also 22 lands seems a bit low.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
I really don't see Smuggler's Copter in a Lightning Bolt format: what makes it so good is the lack of good instant removal in standard. Still, everyone can be wrong try it if you want and report on it.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
4 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Blade Splicer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Reality Smasher
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
Lands
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Wastes
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
4 Concealed Courtyard
1 Shambling Vent
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Pithing Needle
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
Twitch: Artificier10
MTGO and Discord: PollenProphet
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
GWUKnightfallGWU
UBRGrixis ShadowUBR