By the way, why run Thraben Inspector over something like Wall of Omens? The later seems more resilient unless you need the clue.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I've been thinking about the White Circle to beat humans, UWx Control and mirrors. It makes me wonder how surprised my opponents will be hahaha. Also, it may be good against random Soul Sisters and Tokens. Thoughts?
My issue with protection enchantments is the mana investment and how narrow they are. In most cases I think more spot removal or sweepers would hold greater value in the board. Having to invest 1-3 mana a turn depending on the board state to blank a few creatures seems miserable when you could just run o-rings, dec in stone or journey instead. They cover more match ups and are more versatile.
It's a 3 or less mana to invest to fog every turn. All of their threats is white. Think about it.. Reflector Mage, Thalia's Lieutenant, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Mantis Rider. They're the biggest problems. You can't tell the same for Mayor and for Noble Hierarch, but they almost don't attack. White Circle do a great job against UWx Geist/colonnade decks.
@colt, inspector has one power to crew copter or attack with. It also fills the missing point in the W curve by being cmc 1 rather than cmc 2.
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Your success in playing dnt/hatebears is determined largely by your ability to read and prepare for the meta that you will be playing in. Furthermore, it has an absolutely brutal learning curve. Expect to lose; a lot.
@colt, inspector has one power to crew copter or attack with. It also fills the missing point in the W curve by being cmc 1 rather than cmc 2.
It also gives you a turn 1 and 2 play all on it's own. Thraben on 1 clue on 2. Or with vial - vial on 1 then vial the Thraben and crack clue on 2. Between that and dsmonsta's points it is just the strictly better option in our deck.
I've been thinking about the White Circle to beat humans, UWx Control and mirrors. It makes me wonder how surprised my opponents will be hahaha. Also, it may be good against random Soul Sisters and Tokens. Thoughts?
My issue with protection enchantments is the mana investment and how narrow they are. In most cases I think more spot removal or sweepers would hold greater value in the board. Having to invest 1-3 mana a turn depending on the board state to blank a few creatures seems miserable when you could just run o-rings, dec in stone or journey instead. They cover more match ups and are more versatile.
It's a 3 or less mana to invest to fog every turn. All of their threats is white. Think about it.. Reflector Mage, Thalia's Lieutenant, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Mantis Rider. They're the biggest problems. You can't tell the same for Mayor and for Noble Hierarch, but they almost don't attack. White Circle do a great job against UWx Geist/colonnade decks.
Absolutely it has value in those match ups I just think that other option are more versatile in the board and in the diversity of modern I personally would rather have versatility. Something that would still allow me to take out a key creature against humans but work in non-white match ups as well. LD doesn't always pay off that much against the humans deck so in those cases you would have the mana to invest every turn in the protection. But I am personally always a little leery of cards that require recurring or larger mana investments in DnT because it goes against our LD plan. All that said in the right meta or depending on your board the protection may just be the clear best choice.
Thanks for the feedback on wall of omens. I actually brought it up since I got two builds of d&t going at the moment. One is mono white eldrazi taxes and in that build I'm preferring wall of omens due to being all in on blink. Also get dust off the musty kamigawa stuff and run shoals.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Why not 8 and a half tails over the white circle? Not that I think either is good, but I rather have a body with the effect.
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails is way more mana investment, requires you to block/have a blocker and would be more vulnerable, but can protect you from white removal.
I think that makes it the worse of the two options.
Thanks for the feedback on wall of omens. I actually brought it up since I got two builds of d&t going at the moment. One is mono white eldrazi taxes and in that build I'm preferring wall of omens due to being all in on blink. Also get dust off the musty kamigawa stuff and run shoals.
If you don't mind posting it I would be interested in seeing the mono-white E&T list.
Ahh, my bad, I didn't check the card text and confused the name with another card that might not even be modern legal.
Has anyone tried BW, non-Eldrazi Dnt lately? Freebooters, Scullers, and access to path, push, and souls felt soooo sexy. I'm thinking of getting back into Dnt for a while just to get more serious reps in with it and see how it does.
Hey has anyone else toyed around with Solemn Recruit? I just dropped her in for a few games online and she's an absolute beater with all the revolt triggers in our deck!
Ha! I'd post the mono-white list but the holidays have slowed me down on building it. If you want to see someone elses cool example, though, I believe deathAndCatMix has his list posted already. I feel like I'm way too slow these days on making new decks.
His list is a little different since I'm experimenting with Shining Shoal as a silver bullet against burn and some mid-range match ups. That and my own list currently has Mutavault as well, but I'm not really sure if it's needed. I feel like the Shefet Dunes may be better or possibly going for Tectonic Edge. I want to give Field of ruin a shot, but the mana-cost makes it a tad restrictive.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Hey has anyone else toyed around with Solemn Recruit? I just dropped her in for a few games online and she's an absolute beater with all the revolt triggers in our deck!
Solemn Recruit could be good, or could be just win more, hard to tell but worth some testing I think.
I'm definitely playing DnT at the pro tour, bar rivals making something akin to eldrazi winter
But my DnT deck is my foiled out baby that I used to go 6-1 to win the pptq and now 5-0-2 to top 4 the rptq. I'm running hot with it.
Gearhulk is for elves, it's probably our worst Matchup, it also has game against Affinity, and midrange decks that go wide. The fact you can blink it for repeatable value is just a bonus.
Revokers were main to help the g1 Matchup of elves, company, and Affinity. Luckily I dodged them. They named expedition map and sakura tribe elder.
Mark of asylum was essential in my locking out valakut with Aven mindcensor
I have always wanted to try out cataclysmic gearhulk but was afraid it would be far to slow. So glad to here it worked for you. I am definitely just going to try running some now and congrats!
Ha! I'd post the mono-white list but the holidays have slowed me down on building it. If you want to see someone elses cool example, though, I believe deathAndCatMix has his list posted already. I feel like I'm way too slow these days on making new decks.
His list is a little different since I'm experimenting with Shining Shoal as a silver bullet against burn and some mid-range match ups. That and my own list currently has Mutavault as well, but I'm not really sure if it's needed. I feel like the Shefet Dunes may be better or possibly going for Tectonic Edge. I want to give Field of ruin a shot, but the mana-cost makes it a tad restrictive.
The GP list is definitely something special, I just don't see how it would preform better then normal mono white. Unless you expected a lot of valakut maybe?. Either way it's cool.
This is s list I wanted to try and have had good luck with past few weeks through 8 rounds over 2 tournaments and only lost to lantern control. I rant Luke dryad militant in the current meta and with less etb triggers I switched 2 resto for 2 hero and used Brimaz in the flex to close out games quicker and the list has felt very strong.
It still gives you something to do on turn 1 like Inspector, survives a removal that doesn't exile it, and can pilot the Copter whether it's still human or a spirit! The clue is obviously super nice but so is looting with copter so maybe that's a wash? I guess the biggest downside is that without Copter it's a super dead card whereas Inspector always gives you a clue.
I dont like it. We have much better cards at 3cc, and it loses the +1/+1 counter if we flick it =/
Completely agree with Metal_GuN. At least Solemn Recruit will still always be a 3/3 double strike if you flicker it on your turn. Explore flickering just isn't enough value at 3 cmc with how good other 3 cmc cards are and the speed of modern.
It still gives you something to do on turn 1 like Inspector, survives a removal that doesn't exile it, and can pilot the Copter whether it's still human or a spirit! The clue is obviously super nice but so is looting with copter so maybe that's a wash? I guess the biggest downside is that without Copter it's a super dead card whereas Inspector always gives you a clue.
You completely answered your own question. Thraben always has value Traveler doesn't. Also multiples of Copter have diminishing returns so 4 is way more then you need.
This is s list I wanted to try and have had good luck with past few weeks through 8 rounds over 2 tournaments and only lost to lantern control. I rant Luke dryad militant in the current meta and with less etb triggers I switched 2 resto for 2 hero and used Brimaz in the flex to close out games quicker and the list has felt very strong.
That's an aggressive list for sure, but I kinda like it. How has Hero specifically been preforming for you? With Brimaz as well it doesn't seem like Hero would add much to the deck, but I am interested to know how it's been for you.
I dont like it. We have much better cards at 3cc, and it loses the +1/+1 counter if we flick it =/
It MIGHT lose the +1/+1 counter, or it might get one if it didn't before: Explore triggers at it enters the Battlefield again. That said, no, not worth it at 3CMC.
No worries, I'll look elsewhere re. Emissary of Sunrise. It does feel good to pull lands out of your deck even if you miss out on the +1/+1 counter though.
A FYI on Solemn Recruit: flickering it doesn't add a +1/+1 counter. I was hoping that since it returns to the battlefield simultaneously with the trigger for the counter, both at the beginning of the end step, it would still apply. But, on MTGO at least, it doesn't.
@kitty. It closes the game out very fast. In This list I like it more than resto angel in many situations. I started with one and wanted it so much i went to the second same with Brimaz (although o have ran Brimaz in the past). Pay of the reason i like Brimaz currently is with a lot of bolt helix decks inn overall and especially local meta. This week in going to try -1 avenger (the seems excessive) +1 honor of the pure son've I gp a bit wider than most builds.. but aosp keeps other avenger out of bolt range. This may be wrong or very awkward and may ultimately be a utility creature like spellskite (with infect slowly coming back) but figure than honor is worth a shot. In typical thraben inspector builds I recommend sucking with 4 angel since toy hey a bit of extra utility outside of splicer and wisp but if you're not running inspector I would say that bladehold is worth trying.
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Modern WDeath and TaxesW RWGBurnGWR
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I think this is a reasonable way to update the DNT team. Check it out and let me know what you think.
-Catmix
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It also gives you a turn 1 and 2 play all on it's own. Thraben on 1 clue on 2. Or with vial - vial on 1 then vial the Thraben and crack clue on 2. Between that and dsmonsta's points it is just the strictly better option in our deck.
Absolutely it has value in those match ups I just think that other option are more versatile in the board and in the diversity of modern I personally would rather have versatility. Something that would still allow me to take out a key creature against humans but work in non-white match ups as well. LD doesn't always pay off that much against the humans deck so in those cases you would have the mana to invest every turn in the protection. But I am personally always a little leery of cards that require recurring or larger mana investments in DnT because it goes against our LD plan. All that said in the right meta or depending on your board the protection may just be the clear best choice.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails is way more mana investment, requires you to block/have a blocker and would be more vulnerable, but can protect you from white removal.
I think that makes it the worse of the two options.
EDIT:
If you don't mind posting it I would be interested in seeing the mono-white E&T list.
Has anyone tried BW, non-Eldrazi Dnt lately? Freebooters, Scullers, and access to path, push, and souls felt soooo sexy. I'm thinking of getting back into Dnt for a while just to get more serious reps in with it and see how it does.
Mono-White Eldrazi & Taxes -
4 Path to Exile
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Shefet Dunes
8 Plains
His list is a little different since I'm experimenting with Shining Shoal as a silver bullet against burn and some mid-range match ups. That and my own list currently has Mutavault as well, but I'm not really sure if it's needed. I feel like the Shefet Dunes may be better or possibly going for Tectonic Edge. I want to give Field of ruin a shot, but the mana-cost makes it a tad restrictive.
Also my own list doesn't use Smuggler's Copter due to it being a non-bo with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and I want the 4 toughness Wall of Omens for shutting down some early swings. Fatal Push is still annoying to deal with, though.
Edit: AH! Here we go! Found the list that got me going on trying a mono-white eldrazi taxes.
GP Vancouver Listing
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Solemn Recruit could be good, or could be just win more, hard to tell but worth some testing I think.
I have always wanted to try out cataclysmic gearhulk but was afraid it would be far to slow. So glad to here it worked for you. I am definitely just going to try running some now and congrats!
The GP list is definitely something special, I just don't see how it would preform better then normal mono white. Unless you expected a lot of valakut maybe?. Either way it's cool.
4 dryad militant
4 Leonin arbiter
4 Thalia, guardian of thraben
3 serra avenger
4 flickerwisp
4 blade splicer
2 Brimaz, king of oreskos
2 restoration angel
2 hero of bladehold
4 aether vial
4 path tip exile
Lands 23
4 ghost quarter
4 tectonic edge
4 horizon canopy
1 eiganjo castle
10 plains
2 dismember
3 burrenton forge-tender
2 rest in peace
2 linvala, keeper of silence
2 stony silence
2 aven mindcensor
2 Gideon, ally of Zendikar
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
It still gives you something to do on turn 1 like Inspector, survives a removal that doesn't exile it, and can pilot the Copter whether it's still human or a spirit! The clue is obviously super nice but so is looting with copter so maybe that's a wash? I guess the biggest downside is that without Copter it's a super dead card whereas Inspector always gives you a clue.
Completely agree with Metal_GuN. At least Solemn Recruit will still always be a 3/3 double strike if you flicker it on your turn. Explore flickering just isn't enough value at 3 cmc with how good other 3 cmc cards are and the speed of modern.
You completely answered your own question. Thraben always has value Traveler doesn't. Also multiples of Copter have diminishing returns so 4 is way more then you need.
That's an aggressive list for sure, but I kinda like it. How has Hero specifically been preforming for you? With Brimaz as well it doesn't seem like Hero would add much to the deck, but I am interested to know how it's been for you.
It MIGHT lose the +1/+1 counter, or it might get one if it didn't before: Explore triggers at it enters the Battlefield again. That said, no, not worth it at 3CMC.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
A FYI on Solemn Recruit: flickering it doesn't add a +1/+1 counter. I was hoping that since it returns to the battlefield simultaneously with the trigger for the counter, both at the beginning of the end step, it would still apply. But, on MTGO at least, it doesn't.
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR