Thank you I agree I will have to try the new Thalia out I really like how it taxes the mana base and creatures. Only thing I was scared about was so many 3 drops that's why I was looking for a 2.
Thank you ppkitty for your insight on Hostile Desert. You're probably right saying we would rather need these 2 mana to cast a creature spell rather than activate that manland. I'll probably try Shefet Dunes in one or two copies instead, as most of you seemed to have got good results with it.
Regarding Thalia, Heretic Cathar, I really do like the card. In every game I had her on the battlefield, she did help a lot. Her tapping ability considerably slows down the opponent and the first strike is very effective, especially if you have an aether vial on 3 and put it onto the battlefield to block another creature. I play minimum two copies of her.
Thank you ppkitty for your insight on Hostile Desert. You're probably right saying we would rather need these 2 mana to cast a creature spell rather than activate that manland. I'll probably try Shefet Dunes in one or two copies instead, as most of you seemed to have got good results with it.
Regarding Thalia, Heretic Cathar, I really do like the card. In every game I had her on the battlefield, she did help a lot. Her tapping ability considerably slows down the opponent and the first strike is very effective, especially if you have an aether vial on 3 and put it onto the battlefield to block another creature. I play minimum two copies of her.
After you guys saying Grown up Thalia is good I really want to try her now, the tax on lands always seem so good. I have been putting off using her because I hate the art (although Magali Villeneuve's art is usually so good, some of my favorites: Ancestral Mask/Titania, Protector of Argoth).
I know with baby Thalia the first strike is relevant pretty often but how relevant do you find it with grown up Thalia being 1 power more?
The thing I found with big Thalia is the tax is often too late top make a huge difference (especially when drawn after t3) t3 on the play or earlier in green version can be good, but after that it's meh. The 3/2 first strike is relevant against cards like lingering souls. If they have 4 tokens and they all out block she eats 3 with first strike and only takes 1. Tip be fair it can hose storm when on the empty the Warrens or against Kiki angel combo.
I streamed mono-white Eldrazi and Taxes last nite. I highly recommend. He king the video out. I played two leagues and found some great results, overall.
I will post my results Friday after fnm, not sold on the spirit of the labyrinth tech but I will pay final lousy when decided.
I've only every run big Thalia because I had them on hand and never got around to buying little Thalias.
Turn 3 is often too slow for her tax to be very effective. Best case is that it catches a Goblin Guide but against burn little Thalia would be a lot better. But I really like her 3 power first-strike. Her and a Golem or two are definitely responsible for some wins with the ground stalled and flickerwisps swinging in the air. It's also nice that she isn't a bad top deck late game with a vial on 3.
I think little Thalia vs big Thalia is definitely a meta call. But I think she slots in reasonably.
I've only every run big Thalia because I had them on hand and never got around to buying little Thalias.
Turn 3 is often too slow for her tax to be very effective. Best case is that it catches a Goblin Guide but against burn little Thalia would be a lot better. But I really like her 3 power first-strike. Her and a Golem or two are definitely responsible for some wins with the ground stalled and flickerwisps swinging in the air. It's also nice that she isn't a bad top deck late game with a vial on 3.
I think little Thalia vs big Thalia is definitely a meta call. But I think she slots in reasonably.
Whoa, it is most certainly NOT a choice between little and big thalia. Little thalia is core to this deck! If you're playing big thalia it is in addition to little thalia!
I've only every run big Thalia because I had them on hand and never got around to buying little Thalias.
Turn 3 is often too slow for her tax to be very effective. Best case is that it catches a Goblin Guide but against burn little Thalia would be a lot better. But I really like her 3 power first-strike. Her and a Golem or two are definitely responsible for some wins with the ground stalled and flickerwisps swinging in the air. It's also nice that she isn't a bad top deck late game with a vial on 3.
I think little Thalia vs big Thalia is definitely a meta call. But I think she slots in reasonably.
Whoa, it is most certainly NOT a choice between little and big thalia. Little thalia is core to this deck! If you're playing big thalia it is in addition to little thalia!
I agree that little Thalia is a must. Not sure if there is some confusion about the rules notcoffeetable but you can have both in play at the same time. The legend rule only checks for the exact same full English name of the card, so both being a Thalia doesn't matter. If modern were a much slower format then a meta call might be ok.
I am just going to try and run two in the board for creature matchups for a while and see how I like it, as that seems to be my worst match up.
I've only every run big Thalia because I had them on hand and never got around to buying little Thalias.
I know you can run both, I just don't have both. Other modern staples are at historic lows so I've been picking those up instead of Thalias which are spiking. My meta has lots of creature decks as well, so little Thalia isn't particularly pressing.
I wonder what the correct amount of Horizon Canopy/ Shefet Dunes are. I feel like you want 4x Canopys to keep up the gas. You can always add Dunes but 5 or more lands that ping you just seem dangerous. Maybe 4 Canopys, 1 Dune? 3 Canopies/2 Dunes?
So I wasn't able to get the matter reshaper for my eldrazi lizr (of a somehow sold their giant stack.) So I a running splicer in its place. Which may be the right answer, but I wanted to test the reshaper. Other than that I went to a list that is a bit closer to Catmix's.
I ended up going 3-0-1 with the list a couple posts above this one. and the deck seemed really powerful. Eldrazi dislacer won some games that resto wouldn't have and the the eldrazi temple mana was really relevant. the one draw was intentional to bant company my buddy was already done with his draft and I think my deck is slightly disfavored to opponent's (same guy i lost to at PPTQ last weekend.) As far as side goes i was trying valorous stance but never really came up so i don't know if I will keep the side the same for PPTQ this weekend, although I will likely run a similar main since it worked out very well for me.
Match 1 Jund Death's Shadow (2-0)
Game1- opponent kept a 1 lander opened with T1 inquisition my vial then surgical said vial, then he T2 thoughtseize after I played inspector but not drawing 2nd land I easily beat him
Game 2- i got a decent board he eventually worked his way into 2 5/5 deaths shadow, I vial in an eldrazi displacer after he attacked with one (leaving the other back so he didn't die on back swing) then on my turn (he was tapped out and I had thalia so no play) I displacer his other shadow and swing for lethal.
Match 2- groyos vengeance/through the breach griselbrand/emrakrul.(2-0) It was the more consistent version and not the all in boroboro build.
Game 1- Thalia hurt him pretty bad, it ended with me having a thought-knot seer, a thalia a vial on 2 and three lands with opponent at 2 ( he previously vengeance a griselbrand) he uses all his mana to discard (with shuffle trigger on stack) and vengeance an emrakrul he attacks in response to annihilator trigger I vial in an arbiter sac all permanants but thalia ( he had 0 mana and already played land for turn) then swing for lethal.
Game 2- He kills thalia on sight and tries to win via creeping tar pit holding back a simian spirit guide for D I get a flickerwisp to keep up in race and a displacer and eidolon on board. He through the breach and emrakrul I tap it down with displacer swing for half his life next turn he animates the tarpit I tap down it and emrakrul come my turn tap down the spirit guider and swing for lethal.
Match 3 free win red (2-0)
game 1- he gets smug behind his T1 ensnaring bridge, I get out a displacer and thought-knot seer. on my turn I displace thought-knot seer stacking triggers for draw on bottom and exile card in his hand (empty) on the top, let the exile card in his hand trigger resolve in response to the first draw I displace TKS again same way do this loop on more time so he has three draw triggers on the stack he draws I attack for a bunch have to pass he was able to play 2 cards (2 still in hand) and I win on next turn. Convoluted but effective.
Game 2- again he has an early bridge but I have displacer and flickerwisp to deal with it (much easier than game 1) and I kept another wisp in hand just in case. The turn before dieing he pithing needles the displacer I hard cast wisp on the bridge to swing for lethal.
Intentional draw for 1st in round 4 as explained above.
I wonder what the correct amount of Horizon Canopy/ Shefet Dunes are. I feel like you want 4x Canopys to keep up the gas. You can always add Dunes but 5 or more lands that ping you just seem dangerous. Maybe 4 Canopys, 1 Dune? 3 Canopies/2 Dunes?
My current split is 2 Horizon Canopy, 3 Shefet Dunes. This is a much friendlier balance on your life total (you're not always spending life to use Dunes), assures that you get the damage push when you need it, and still keeps the deck moving along.
The thing I can't decide is if I want access to B, extra lifegain/manlands, and increased options out of the board, or just the solidarity of an additional 6 basics.
Private Mod Note
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“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
Was out of Modern for a while, and just drafting a ton, but my friend convinced me to get back in since he made a deck. Here's my new list based on the recent top finishes, and recent (albeit minimal) testing has gone well.
I'm still not sure on the manabase though. I ran 22 lands on the old build (pre-desert) but I like the 1-of Hostile as the 23rd with 2 Dunes for some extra push. For reference, my new manabase is +1 Hostile Desert, +2 Shefet Dunes, +1 Cavern, -1 Mutavault, -2 Plains, and the extra land meant the 3rd Crusader went to the SB. I've never run Canopies though because of the price tag, but may try one especially with the Hostile Desert by cutting a Plains. I just don't see room for any more.
I do want to find room for a 2nd big Thalia, but I just see nothing else to cut. The only choice would likely be one Serra Avenger, but I do like that extra 2-drop there. She usually is the cut for the 3rd Crusader though out of the board.
I also see a lot of lists run only 3 Inspector, but I feel I need the 4th since I don't run Canopy, and getting that extra 1-drop is nice. I am still hoping we will find another 1-drop in the near future.
Cut a blade splicer and go 3-1. Both are 3 power first strikers so the only times you are going to be upset about the swap is in games where you would have been able to make a bunch of tokens. Most of the time they are pretty similar.
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Regarding Thalia, Heretic Cathar, I really do like the card. In every game I had her on the battlefield, she did help a lot. Her tapping ability considerably slows down the opponent and the first strike is very effective, especially if you have an aether vial on 3 and put it onto the battlefield to block another creature. I play minimum two copies of her.
After you guys saying Grown up Thalia is good I really want to try her now, the tax on lands always seem so good. I have been putting off using her because I hate the art (although Magali Villeneuve's art is usually so good, some of my favorites: Ancestral Mask/Titania, Protector of Argoth).
I know with baby Thalia the first strike is relevant pretty often but how relevant do you find it with grown up Thalia being 1 power more?
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=14096&writer=Adam Yurchick&articledate=8-10-2017&utm_source=tcg-social&utm_medium=tcg-social&utm_term=&utm_content=magic&utm_campaign=tcg-social-magic
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
Turn 3 is often too slow for her tax to be very effective. Best case is that it catches a Goblin Guide but against burn little Thalia would be a lot better. But I really like her 3 power first-strike. Her and a Golem or two are definitely responsible for some wins with the ground stalled and flickerwisps swinging in the air. It's also nice that she isn't a bad top deck late game with a vial on 3.
I think little Thalia vs big Thalia is definitely a meta call. But I think she slots in reasonably.
5c Death Shadow|Traditional Jund
BW Death and Taxes|UW Death and Taxes
(In Progress) Jeskai Geist
Simic/Sultai Infect
8 Rack
EDH
5c Bad Stuff
Whoa, it is most certainly NOT a choice between little and big thalia. Little thalia is core to this deck! If you're playing big thalia it is in addition to little thalia!
I agree that little Thalia is a must. Not sure if there is some confusion about the rules notcoffeetable but you can have both in play at the same time. The legend rule only checks for the exact same full English name of the card, so both being a Thalia doesn't matter. If modern were a much slower format then a meta call might be ok.
I am just going to try and run two in the board for creature matchups for a while and see how I like it, as that seems to be my worst match up.
Also happy that there are still a lot of the same cards in modern versions of this deck. I haven't played magic or been on this forum in years.
Kinda unhappy that this deck is Tier 2 now, but I guess the meta isn't as combo-oriented as it used to be.
Just stopping by, keep up the good work and love for D+T.
We shall rise again.
I know you can run both, I just don't have both. Other modern staples are at historic lows so I've been picking those up instead of Thalias which are spiking. My meta has lots of creature decks as well, so little Thalia isn't particularly pressing.
5c Death Shadow|Traditional Jund
BW Death and Taxes|UW Death and Taxes
(In Progress) Jeskai Geist
Simic/Sultai Infect
8 Rack
EDH
5c Bad Stuff
4 thraben inspector
4 leonin arbiter
4 Thalia, guardian of thraben
4 flickerwisp
3 blade splicer
4 Eldrazi displacer
1 aven mindcensor
4 thought-knot seer
4 path to exile
4 aether vial
2 smuggler's copter
Lands 22
4 ghost quarter
4 Eldrazi temple
4 shefet dunes
1 cavern oid souls
9 plains
1 fragmentize
1 eidolon of rhetoric
1 aven mindcensor
3 burrenton forge-tender
1 valorous strike
2 Sunlance
3 relic of progenitus
1 grafdigger's cage
1 Gideon, ally of Zendikar
1 Elspeth, knight-errant
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
Death & Taxes
Fish
Teysa, Orzhov Scion
Roon of the Hidden Realm
Xenagos, God of Revels
Match 1 Jund Death's Shadow (2-0)
Game1- opponent kept a 1 lander opened with T1 inquisition my vial then surgical said vial, then he T2 thoughtseize after I played inspector but not drawing 2nd land I easily beat him
Game 2- i got a decent board he eventually worked his way into 2 5/5 deaths shadow, I vial in an eldrazi displacer after he attacked with one (leaving the other back so he didn't die on back swing) then on my turn (he was tapped out and I had thalia so no play) I displacer his other shadow and swing for lethal.
Match 2- groyos vengeance/through the breach griselbrand/emrakrul.(2-0) It was the more consistent version and not the all in boroboro build.
Game 1- Thalia hurt him pretty bad, it ended with me having a thought-knot seer, a thalia a vial on 2 and three lands with opponent at 2 ( he previously vengeance a griselbrand) he uses all his mana to discard (with shuffle trigger on stack) and vengeance an emrakrul he attacks in response to annihilator trigger I vial in an arbiter sac all permanants but thalia ( he had 0 mana and already played land for turn) then swing for lethal.
Game 2- He kills thalia on sight and tries to win via creeping tar pit holding back a simian spirit guide for D I get a flickerwisp to keep up in race and a displacer and eidolon on board. He through the breach and emrakrul I tap it down with displacer swing for half his life next turn he animates the tarpit I tap down it and emrakrul come my turn tap down the spirit guider and swing for lethal.
Match 3 free win red (2-0)
game 1- he gets smug behind his T1 ensnaring bridge, I get out a displacer and thought-knot seer. on my turn I displace thought-knot seer stacking triggers for draw on bottom and exile card in his hand (empty) on the top, let the exile card in his hand trigger resolve in response to the first draw I displace TKS again same way do this loop on more time so he has three draw triggers on the stack he draws I attack for a bunch have to pass he was able to play 2 cards (2 still in hand) and I win on next turn. Convoluted but effective.
Game 2- again he has an early bridge but I have displacer and flickerwisp to deal with it (much easier than game 1) and I kept another wisp in hand just in case. The turn before dieing he pithing needles the displacer I hard cast wisp on the bridge to swing for lethal.
Intentional draw for 1st in round 4 as explained above.
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
User name: HugeElfBoy
Decks: white, white-black, black-white, black-white
Proof that people can change!
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
My current split is 2 Horizon Canopy, 3 Shefet Dunes. This is a much friendlier balance on your life total (you're not always spending life to use Dunes), assures that you get the damage push when you need it, and still keeps the deck moving along.
The thing I can't decide is if I want access to B, extra lifegain/manlands, and increased options out of the board, or just the solidarity of an additional 6 basics.
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
Starting Over: The Origins of the Mulligan Rule
Practical Approach to Slow Play
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 2: SWARM and TOOLBOX
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 4
These videos are by MTG Salvation Moderator Lantern!
Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
I'm still not sure on the manabase though. I ran 22 lands on the old build (pre-desert) but I like the 1-of Hostile as the 23rd with 2 Dunes for some extra push. For reference, my new manabase is +1 Hostile Desert, +2 Shefet Dunes, +1 Cavern, -1 Mutavault, -2 Plains, and the extra land meant the 3rd Crusader went to the SB. I've never run Canopies though because of the price tag, but may try one especially with the Hostile Desert by cutting a Plains. I just don't see room for any more.
I do want to find room for a 2nd big Thalia, but I just see nothing else to cut. The only choice would likely be one Serra Avenger, but I do like that extra 2-drop there. She usually is the cut for the 3rd Crusader though out of the board.
I also see a lot of lists run only 3 Inspector, but I feel I need the 4th since I don't run Canopy, and getting that extra 1-drop is nice. I am still hoping we will find another 1-drop in the near future.
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Serra Avenger
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Flickerwisp
4 Blade Splicer
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Restoration Angel
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
4 Tectonic Edge
1 Hostile Desert
2 Shefet Dunes
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Flagstones of Trokair
9 Plains
BG The Rock