I don't think Witness and Rallier compete for the same purpose. Rallier ramps you, gets you back an Aether Vial, Thalia, Scooze, Arbiter, Ghost Quarter, Tectonic Edge, whatever (the most significant cards costs 2mor less) and it puts it straight up in the battlefield, you don't need to resolve them. I think it's strictly better than Witness in GW as they can play 4 Wisps + 4 Restos.
Even though I'm pretty excited about the addition of Renegade Rallier, I can already tell you that "strictly better" is a bad way to frame your argument.
Alongside Displacer, Wisp and Restoration angel it's a 100% guaranteed permanent into play ability that you can abuse. It is the ultimate demise of GQ your opponent until they have 0 lands in play, you don't even care if they get basics cause you blow them up again and again and again. I think it's strictly better if you go that route, if you care for CoCos and removal then Witness is better, I think it's all about the direction you want to take and Rallier is a build-around-me card. I should have expanded a bit on my thoughts I suppose.
You're pretending like your opponent is just going to sit there and allow you to make these lines of play. He or she is going to point removal at Rallier, as soon as he or she realizes what you're doing with it. In that sense, it has the same problem as Mangara of Corondor; if you want to abuse it, it's going to be obvious, and your opponent isn't going to casually let you win.
Even if you could hit the Revolt trigger 100% of the time, which you won't
I think that point is why you run it in a more aggressively tuned version of taxes. 4 Fetches, 4 GW and 4 Judges Familar start at 12 good ways to turn it on. Then you can start adding value with other cards that you control the timing of when things come on and off the field. Such as Pridemage, flickerwisp in corner cases where you save something and the same for resto.
Both are great cards, in different circumstances and iterations of the list.
The problem is that you're diluting the potency of your deck, in order to enable Renegade Rallier more consistently. Yes, Renegade Rallier needs to be built around, but if you have to run Judge's Familiar in order to fuel it, then it's probably not worth it.
Although I'm disagreeing with darktutor above, he is right that you'll need to be running cards that you want to run anyway, like Flickerwisp, Displacer, and Restoration Angel.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
The problem is that you're diluting the potency of your deck, in order to enable Renegade Rallier more consistently. Yes, Renegade Rallier needs to be built around, but if you have to run Judge's Familiar in order to fuel it, then it's probably not worth it.
Although I'm disagreeing with darktutor above, he is right that you'll need to be running cards that you want to run anyway, like Flickerwisp, Displacer, and Restoration Angel.
Yes, ahah, you're totally right. That's why edited the post to state just that. While the card is good, I don't think it's worth building around. And it's more so a good card to consider as your looking at the base build you're putting together.
I am currently running a mono white build of D&T but found that bant eldrazi was a VERY difficult deck to beat, they would get creatures that are far bigger than mine out far faster than I could, so what are some good sideboard cards for match ups like this?
Alongside Displacer, Wisp and Restoration angel it's a 100% guaranteed permanent into play ability that you can abuse. It is the ultimate demise of GQ your opponent until they have 0 lands in play, you don't even care if they get basics cause you blow them up again and again and again. I think it's strictly better if you go that route, if you care for CoCos and removal then Witness is better, I think it's all about the direction you want to take and Rallier is a build-around-me card. I should have expanded a bit on my thoughts I suppose.
You're pretending like your opponent is just going to sit there and allow you to make these lines of play. He or she is going to point removal at Rallier, as soon as he or she realizes what you're doing with it. In that sense, it has the same problem as Mangara of Corondor; if you want to abuse it, it's going to be obvious, and your opponent isn't going to casually let you win.
No, I'm not pretending that, but you can work around that when you're playing taxes. Their spells cost more, if you have arbiter, their fetches cost more. The card is good on its own, regardless of the blinking abuse, whereas mangara isn't. If you were to build a blink D&T in WG, you can easily play a regular gameplan while having the option to go nuts as soon as the opponent taps out (which happens often when playing arbiter and thalia in the same deck).
I'm not saying you should play this or die. It's a build around card and I can see the upside of using it in a shell that has the option to abuse it through flicker effects. In the same deck you can play spellskite and selfless spirit, which both can be returned into play by rallier to have an endless stream of value as soon as your opponent's shields are down. If the game doesn't allow for it, you're just still playing a regular D&T deck with the value of getting back stuff off the GY with this dude. I think the card is great and should be explored before disregarding it saying 'it will die to removal' or 'opponents will try to stop you'. Synergy and combo decks exists through counterspells, discard and removal and still find they're way through it. Having a little value combo on a D&T shell is not something to disregard.
If you coco rallier and blink it with wisp you won't get the first trigger but you will get the second at EoT, so there's no shame in taking that line of play.
Alongside Displacer, Wisp and Restoration angel it's a 100% guaranteed permanent into play ability that you can abuse. It is the ultimate demise of GQ your opponent until they have 0 lands in play, you don't even care if they get basics cause you blow them up again and again and again. I think it's strictly better if you go that route, if you care for CoCos and removal then Witness is better, I think it's all about the direction you want to take and Rallier is a build-around-me card. I should have expanded a bit on my thoughts I suppose.
You're pretending like your opponent is just going to sit there and allow you to make these lines of play. He or she is going to point removal at Rallier, as soon as he or she realizes what you're doing with it. In that sense, it has the same problem as Mangara of Corondor; if you want to abuse it, it's going to be obvious, and your opponent isn't going to casually let you win.
No, I'm not saying that, but you can work around that when you're playing taxes. They're spells cost more, if you have arbiter, their fetches cost more. The card is good on its own, regardless of the blinking abuse, whereas mangara isn't. If you were to build a blink D&T in WG, you can easily play a regular gameplan while having the option to go nuts as soon as the opponent taps out (which happens often when playing arbiter and thalia in the same deck).
If this were true, we would have seen it already with an Eternal Witness focused WG build. Instead, we use Eternal Witness as a 1-2 of. It's effective, but not something that's effective enough to want to play four copies.
I'm not saying you should play this or die. It's a build around card and I can see the upside of using it in a shell that has the option to abuse it through flicker effects. In the same deck you can play spellskite and selfless spirit, which both can be returned into play by rallier to have an endless stream of value as soon as your opponent's shields are down. If the game doesn't allow for it, you're just still playing a regular D&T deck with the value of getting back stuff off the GY with this dude. I think the card is great and should be explored before disregarding it saying 'it will die to removal' or 'opponents will try to stop you'. Synergy and combo decks exists through counterspells, discard and removal and still find they're way through it. Having a little value combo on a D&T shell is not something to disregard.
I know my original comment was a reply to Ivg, but you should go click the "spoiler" tag in my post on the last page. I feel like you didn't do that, and instead started replying without any context whatsoever.
I'm a huge fan of Renegade Rallier, and I think it opens up great new possibilities for WG. That said, I think you're selling it wrong. Jamming unnecessary (3rd or 4th) copies of Restoration Angel to try and get value out of this card is the wrong way to go. If you're going to spend 4 mana for value, you're probably better off just playing Collected Company with Eternal Witness and playing a midrange version of D&T.
If you coco rallier and blink it with wisp you won't get the first trigger but you will get the second at EoT, so there's no shame in taking that line of play.
This is only true if you don't play CoCo during your opponent's end step. If you flicker your own Rallier at the end of your opponent's turn, it won't return to the battlefield until your next end step.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Alongside Displacer, Wisp and Restoration angel it's a 100% guaranteed permanent into play ability that you can abuse. It is the ultimate demise of GQ your opponent until they have 0 lands in play, you don't even care if they get basics cause you blow them up again and again and again. I think it's strictly better if you go that route, if you care for CoCos and removal then Witness is better, I think it's all about the direction you want to take and Rallier is a build-around-me card. I should have expanded a bit on my thoughts I suppose.
You're pretending like your opponent is just going to sit there and allow you to make these lines of play. He or she is going to point removal at Rallier, as soon as he or she realizes what you're doing with it. In that sense, it has the same problem as Mangara of Corondor; if you want to abuse it, it's going to be obvious, and your opponent isn't going to casually let you win.
No, I'm not saying that, but you can work around that when you're playing taxes. They're spells cost more, if you have arbiter, their fetches cost more. The card is good on its own, regardless of the blinking abuse, whereas mangara isn't. If you were to build a blink D&T in WG, you can easily play a regular gameplan while having the option to go nuts as soon as the opponent taps out (which happens often when playing arbiter and thalia in the same deck).
If this were true, we would have seen it already with an Eternal Witness focused WG build. Instead, we use Eternal Witness as a 1-2 of. It's effective, but not something that's effective enough to want to play four copies.
I'm not saying you should play this or die. It's a build around card and I can see the upside of using it in a shell that has the option to abuse it through flicker effects. In the same deck you can play spellskite and selfless spirit, which both can be returned into play by rallier to have an endless stream of value as soon as your opponent's shields are down. If the game doesn't allow for it, you're just still playing a regular D&T deck with the value of getting back stuff off the GY with this dude. I think the card is great and should be explored before disregarding it saying 'it will die to removal' or 'opponents will try to stop you'. Synergy and combo decks exists through counterspells, discard and removal and still find they're way through it. Having a little value combo on a D&T shell is not something to disregard.
I know my original comment was a reply to Ivg, but you should go click the "spoiler" tag in my post on the last page. I feel like you didn't do that, and instead started replying without any context whatsoever.
I'm a huge fan of Renegade Rallier, and I think it opens up great new possibilities for WG. That said, I think you're selling it wrong. Jamming unnecessary (3rd or 4th) copies of Restoration Angel to try and get value out of this card is the wrong way to go. If you're going to spend 4 mana for value, you're probably better off just playing Collected Company with Eternal Witness and playing a midrange version of D&T.
If you coco rallier and blink it with wisp you won't get the first trigger but you will get the second at EoT, so there's no shame in taking that line of play.
This is only true if you don't play CoCo during your opponent's end step. If you flicker your own Rallier at the end of your opponent's turn, it won't return to the battlefield until your next end step.
Eternal Witness is a different card. Ewit asks you to resolve stuff or to have a vial in play. Rallier asks for none of those.
I'm also saying from the beggining that Rallier doesn't take the slots as Ewit because they are different cards. You can play both and live happily ever after, although I wouldn't play more than 2 Ewits. Even Abzan CoCo doesn't play more than 3.
I'm also not saying you shouldn't play CoCo, although I wouldn't play 4 either. I'd even play something like 2 CoCo and maybe 1 or 2 more in the board. This is not a CoCo deck, but having heirarch available helps to smooth it out.
About the Wisp + Rallier thing, obviously. It's like returning bloodghast at EoT and triggering Amalgams 1 turn later, you just adjust your timing to it. By casting it during combat or with a spell on the stack you're still protecting your rallier from sorcery speed removal.
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If this were true, we would have seen it already with an Eternal Witness focused WG build. Instead, we use Eternal Witness as a 1-2 of. It's effective, but not something that's effective enough to want to play four copies.
I think this is untrue. I am speculating here, but I think there are some significant differences between eternal witness and Renegade Rallier that allow the rallier to be played in greater numbers when compared to Eternal witness currently in WG Death and Taxes. Firstly the mana cost is much easier for rallier than it is for witness meaning that Should you play more than 1-2 you are less likely to get opening hands where getting double green is a problem and you have 3 eternal witnesses in your hand. The biggest difference, however, I think is the two cards respective speeds and aggressiveness. Rallier is a 3/2 and "buys" you tempo by either giving you access to and extra land drop in a turn or letting you put a permanent onto the battlefield effectively giving you up 2 more mana. Witness on the other hand is 2/1 and will not give you more land drops in a turn and requires you to invest mana into casting the spell.
Another thing about rallier is that I don't think "building around" him will require many deck constraints as there are already cards we use that synergize with him. In WG we have:
Ghost Quarter
Tectonic Edge
Horizon Canopy
Selfless Spirit
Qsali Pridemage
Flickerwisp
Eldrazi Displacer
Restoration Angel
Possible fetch lands
That is a lot of different tools to enable Rallier and they are already good enough to make our deck, not to mention our 2 drops tend to have big targets on them. So while Eternal witness might have reached a cap of 1-2 copies, I think Rallier can easily have the potential to be seen in amounts of 3-4 in lists that want to abuse him.
My opinion of Renegade Rallier is that its closer to a flickerwisp than a Ewit, yes i know the effect but Ewit you play when you want and if it resolved you get a card, now the other card is conditional yet the effect is alittle bit stronger (since it goes onto the Battlefield) yet again has an other condition (2 mana or less and must be a permanent). To me it seems like either an all in build around, or a 1-2 of because of space at the three drop. The reason i view it as a flickerwisp is that you can use it to effectively blank a removal spell, you can use it to gain abit of tempo (taking a land from them with a tech edge or something), its not totally identical but you can see how it is abit versatil yet conditional.
I prefer a card like Ewit because you know exactly what its going to do in a game when you see it in your hand and can adjust a bit easier, yet its not as explosive as Rallier so that could have an upside yet if its one of the last cards in your hand and you get no value its a lot worse (effect wise), the body is great though.
On the subject of this recursion, you need to also consider that if you are using this card, you might want to move to a package of Surgicals/Relic/Ravenous traps instead of RIP.
I agree that this a build around card, but the package doesn't really takes the build that far away from a straight GW D&T, as it has been the usual blink abuse build since always (maybe it's been derailing from that approach lately). I think the best GY cards fot such build is Tormod's Crypt followed by Relic of Progenitus.
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In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
This thread (D&T) is just a a lot more lively, as evidenced by all three sequential D&T Primer threads' 301+495+114=910 total pages' worth of contentdiscussionargument fun!
so it looks like gx tron is poised to take the top spot with two of it's bad match ups catching the ban hammer. i played like three tron decks in a row just now. umm our decks pretty good against tron
so it looks like gx tron is poised to take the top spot with two of it's bad match ups catching the ban hammer. i played like three tron decks in a row just now. umm our decks pretty good against tron
Is it?
Maybe i'm just playing it poorly or hitting the wrong side of varience but i find myself often still losing to tron. They hit they're redundant copies of tron lands before i can actually kill them as i'm far from an aggressive deck and if i spend turns trying to disrupt them while still clocking them i just get stonewalled by a turn 6-7 worldbreaker/wurmcoil/karn/ugin/ostone and back to square one. There's definitely games where i just completely lock them out of tron but i tend to find i'm never able to hold them off long enough to kill them before they make a huge game stabilizing play.
On a different subject Metagame update from Modern nexus and it appears all the variants of our deck are no longer being classified as one. That's disappointing as i'm unsure it accurately represents our share of the metagame but i can't say i'm shocked to see it changed back to how it used to be.
There are sequences to be taken in order to win the match regularly. You, on the play, watch for what is his first play. If he plays an egg, play thalia preferably. If he plays the map, play leonin. If you're on the draw, thalia is usually the best move, because the best he can do with natural tron is a wurmcoil, which is annoying, but doesn't win him the game.
In my experiences, crack your quarter in a tron piece (if this is really urgent) but the tower. Why? Because he'll tap it for mana in order to assemble the tron again or play other spells. It's not mandatory, but it's what I (almost) always do.
Post sideboard, I bring stony silences and surgical extractions and take out vials (sometimes 1 single path, but it's risky) and a 4 cmc. It's really rare to lose the game, but it's not impossible.
My main deck I have 4 selfless spirit, 4 thalia guardian of thraben and at least 2 thalia, heretical cathar. They all do the win-by-the-spot against tron.
It's making some weird choices, but most of it is pretty good. @SpiderSpace recently did a stream showing off the deck and tweaking it, if you want to go check it out.
The spectral flights are somewhat weird, as are the Dryad Militants. After some refining, though, it could certainly be a fine list.
I don't play UW, but from what I've seen a good starting point might be going -3 Dryad Militant, -2 Spectral Flight and up on some combination of selfless spirit, reflector mage, and spell queller. Personally, I'd go +1 Mage, +2 Selfless, +1 Queller, and +1 Revoker, but not sure if that's optimal.
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I use a lot of usernames for some reason, so if you see this person, it's me: Twitch: Artificier10 MTGO and Discord: PollenProphet
Im currently playing eldrazi and taxes. This is the list that I'm looking at post Aether Revolt. I really believe they Fatal Push is going to push this deck pretty far. Zoo is a deck I have trouble beating and the more removal the better. Any suggestions about numbers or cards I'm not playing? Ive been playing Wall of Resurgence and it's been a beast for me but can't find room for it.
To everyone asking about GW with Renegade Rallier, I've been doing some testing. I have made a GW Eldrazi Taxes deck with it and it's been awesome. I currently have 18 enablers for it, and when you get the combos off, you feel strong. Since I'm running Eldrazi, you may be asking why don't I just run Bant Eldrazi? Not my style, and I think this deck can answer the upcoming meta. With Fatal Push in and Probe out, linear Aggro decks are going to drop off for more Midrange decks. This will increase the number of fetchlands. Also, people will play Tron and Lock decks to fight it. GW is poised to answer those decks, and Renegade Rallier helps.
I'd like to do a final stream for the the meta before it changes in the early morning tomorrow. As such, I'd like to play a successful list. I'm open to suggestions for both a stream time this evening as well as which deck to play keeping in mind that it needs to have been tried and true (i.e my GW coco, BW E&T, etc).
I'd like to do a final stream for the the meta before it changes in the early morning tomorrow. As such, I'd like to play a successful list. I'm open to suggestions for both a stream time this evening as well as which deck to play keeping in mind that it needs to have been tried and true (i.e my GW coco, BW E&T, etc).
I'll be watching! I am trying to figure out exactly what version of list I want to be on for a large tournament the day after Revolt releases. I'm leaning towards a GW varient myself.
I'll be watching! I am trying to figure out exactly what version of list I want to be on for a large tournament the day after Revolt releases. I'm leaning towards a GW varient myself.
Good to know! I should be going on in about an hour and a half with catmix as my costreamer.
The problem is that you're diluting the potency of your deck, in order to enable Renegade Rallier more consistently. Yes, Renegade Rallier needs to be built around, but if you have to run Judge's Familiar in order to fuel it, then it's probably not worth it.
Although I'm disagreeing with darktutor above, he is right that you'll need to be running cards that you want to run anyway, like Flickerwisp, Displacer, and Restoration Angel.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
Yes, ahah, you're totally right. That's why edited the post to state just that. While the card is good, I don't think it's worth building around. And it's more so a good card to consider as your looking at the base build you're putting together.
WBRGKiki-Chord
No, I'm not pretending that, but you can work around that when you're playing taxes. Their spells cost more, if you have arbiter, their fetches cost more. The card is good on its own, regardless of the blinking abuse, whereas mangara isn't. If you were to build a blink D&T in WG, you can easily play a regular gameplan while having the option to go nuts as soon as the opponent taps out (which happens often when playing arbiter and thalia in the same deck).
I'm not saying you should play this or die. It's a build around card and I can see the upside of using it in a shell that has the option to abuse it through flicker effects. In the same deck you can play spellskite and selfless spirit, which both can be returned into play by rallier to have an endless stream of value as soon as your opponent's shields are down. If the game doesn't allow for it, you're just still playing a regular D&T deck with the value of getting back stuff off the GY with this dude. I think the card is great and should be explored before disregarding it saying 'it will die to removal' or 'opponents will try to stop you'. Synergy and combo decks exists through counterspells, discard and removal and still find they're way through it. Having a little value combo on a D&T shell is not something to disregard.
If you coco rallier and blink it with wisp you won't get the first trigger but you will get the second at EoT, so there's no shame in taking that line of play.
I know my original comment was a reply to Ivg, but you should go click the "spoiler" tag in my post on the last page. I feel like you didn't do that, and instead started replying without any context whatsoever.
I'm a huge fan of Renegade Rallier, and I think it opens up great new possibilities for WG. That said, I think you're selling it wrong. Jamming unnecessary (3rd or 4th) copies of Restoration Angel to try and get value out of this card is the wrong way to go. If you're going to spend 4 mana for value, you're probably better off just playing Collected Company with Eternal Witness and playing a midrange version of D&T.
This is only true if you don't play CoCo during your opponent's end step. If you flicker your own Rallier at the end of your opponent's turn, it won't return to the battlefield until your next end step.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
Eternal Witness is a different card. Ewit asks you to resolve stuff or to have a vial in play. Rallier asks for none of those.
I'm also saying from the beggining that Rallier doesn't take the slots as Ewit because they are different cards. You can play both and live happily ever after, although I wouldn't play more than 2 Ewits. Even Abzan CoCo doesn't play more than 3.
I'm also not saying you shouldn't play CoCo, although I wouldn't play 4 either. I'd even play something like 2 CoCo and maybe 1 or 2 more in the board. This is not a CoCo deck, but having heirarch available helps to smooth it out.
About the Wisp + Rallier thing, obviously. It's like returning bloodghast at EoT and triggering Amalgams 1 turn later, you just adjust your timing to it. By casting it during combat or with a spell on the stack you're still protecting your rallier from sorcery speed removal.
I think this is untrue. I am speculating here, but I think there are some significant differences between eternal witness and Renegade Rallier that allow the rallier to be played in greater numbers when compared to Eternal witness currently in WG Death and Taxes. Firstly the mana cost is much easier for rallier than it is for witness meaning that Should you play more than 1-2 you are less likely to get opening hands where getting double green is a problem and you have 3 eternal witnesses in your hand. The biggest difference, however, I think is the two cards respective speeds and aggressiveness. Rallier is a 3/2 and "buys" you tempo by either giving you access to and extra land drop in a turn or letting you put a permanent onto the battlefield effectively giving you up 2 more mana. Witness on the other hand is 2/1 and will not give you more land drops in a turn and requires you to invest mana into casting the spell.
Another thing about rallier is that I don't think "building around" him will require many deck constraints as there are already cards we use that synergize with him. In WG we have:
That is a lot of different tools to enable Rallier and they are already good enough to make our deck, not to mention our 2 drops tend to have big targets on them. So while Eternal witness might have reached a cap of 1-2 copies, I think Rallier can easily have the potential to be seen in amounts of 3-4 in lists that want to abuse him.
I agree that this a build around card, but the package doesn't really takes the build that far away from a straight GW D&T, as it has been the usual blink abuse build since always (maybe it's been derailing from that approach lately). I think the best GY cards fot such build is Tormod's Crypt followed by Relic of Progenitus.
This thread (D&T) is just a a lot more lively, as evidenced by all three sequential D&T Primer threads' 301+495+114=910 total pages' worth of
contentdiscussionargumentfun!Is it?
Maybe i'm just playing it poorly or hitting the wrong side of varience but i find myself often still losing to tron. They hit they're redundant copies of tron lands before i can actually kill them as i'm far from an aggressive deck and if i spend turns trying to disrupt them while still clocking them i just get stonewalled by a turn 6-7 worldbreaker/wurmcoil/karn/ugin/ostone and back to square one. There's definitely games where i just completely lock them out of tron but i tend to find i'm never able to hold them off long enough to kill them before they make a huge game stabilizing play.
On a different subject Metagame update from Modern nexus and it appears all the variants of our deck are no longer being classified as one. That's disappointing as i'm unsure it accurately represents our share of the metagame but i can't say i'm shocked to see it changed back to how it used to be.
link here http://modernnexus.com/modern-metagame-breakdown-dec-16/
In my experiences, crack your quarter in a tron piece (if this is really urgent) but the tower. Why? Because he'll tap it for mana in order to assemble the tron again or play other spells. It's not mandatory, but it's what I (almost) always do.
Post sideboard, I bring stony silences and surgical extractions and take out vials (sometimes 1 single path, but it's risky) and a 4 cmc. It's really rare to lose the game, but it's not impossible.
My main deck I have 4 selfless spirit, 4 thalia guardian of thraben and at least 2 thalia, heretical cathar. They all do the win-by-the-spot against tron.
It's making some weird choices, but most of it is pretty good. @SpiderSpace recently did a stream showing off the deck and tweaking it, if you want to go check it out.
The spectral flights are somewhat weird, as are the Dryad Militants. After some refining, though, it could certainly be a fine list.
I don't play UW, but from what I've seen a good starting point might be going -3 Dryad Militant, -2 Spectral Flight and up on some combination of selfless spirit, reflector mage, and spell queller. Personally, I'd go +1 Mage, +2 Selfless, +1 Queller, and +1 Revoker, but not sure if that's optimal.
Twitch: Artificier10
MTGO and Discord: PollenProphet
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
GWUKnightfallGWU
UBRGrixis ShadowUBR
Im currently playing eldrazi and taxes. This is the list that I'm looking at post Aether Revolt. I really believe they Fatal Push is going to push this deck pretty far. Zoo is a deck I have trouble beating and the more removal the better. Any suggestions about numbers or cards I'm not playing? Ive been playing Wall of Resurgence and it's been a beast for me but can't find room for it.
Here is my list (SB still being worked on, gotta wait till ban list takes effect): https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/540843#online
WB Eldrazi and Taxes BW
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
I'll be watching! I am trying to figure out exactly what version of list I want to be on for a large tournament the day after Revolt releases. I'm leaning towards a GW varient myself.
Good to know! I should be going on in about an hour and a half with catmix as my costreamer.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance