I finished a Friendly League today 5-0! The stream starts off with "One who's name we shall not speak" suggesting to test Eldrazi and Taxes...
We finished that league 3-2 losing to two Blood Moon decks. It was really annoying because the mana base is already annoying and losing to Magus & Moons made me want to drop my computer out the window.
With My updated Lingering Taxes list, we finished 5-0 (co-streamed with @CharonsObol)! This was the jam honestly. The main deck and board just sang all the way through. We even named the cards off the top a couple of times. I really think between the last stream and this one, You should watch and observe the power Lingering Souls brings to Death and Taxes. Some of you are new and probably will have questions and the previous stream answers most of them!
The first 4 matches are on stream (My Youtube or Twitch Channels) and the last one was against Eggs/Open The Vaults (2-0). The shining reason for that win was access to revoker, Thought-knot Seer, and Sin Collector. See you guys later!
@darktutorfatal push is dope for sure. Kind of scared about its presence though lol.
@Agua_benta blood baron might be really good going forward. 5 mana is kind. If roughy though?
I played 2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa in my sideboard of BW tokens when i was piloting that as a secondary deck and it's fantastic against Jund, Abzan and ESPECIALLY Grixis. Grixis needs 2 bolts to kill if and it swings races dramatically. Having protection from the 2 hard colors of removal in modern shouldn't be underestimated. If 5 drops are playable in modern right now, I'd throw out testing it on your next stream D&Catmix
Eldrazi Displacer approves. Get back so many good stuff. This might even push GW DnT further ahead and can make the LD package really strong
Wow. Renegade Rallier is really, really good for WG. Notably, the card that you return to the battlefield doesn't need to be the same one that left the battlefield.
It's obviously good with Eldrazi Displacer. Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge just got stronger. Renegade Rallier is also great against 1-for-1 creature removal; when your opponent Bolts your Thalia at EoT, you can just Vial in Renegade Rallier and return Thalia to the battlefield. Even better, it returns Leonin Arbiter to the battlefield if you have a Vial on 3 and your opponent goes for Bolt. I'm looking forward to watching soft-locks involving Selfless Spirit, Displacer, and Rallier. I'm also looking forward to bringing back Voice of Resurgence because that interaction is just ridiculous.
This may actually be the card that WG has waited for. It has huge synergy with the rest of our deck and it can be blinked for value. In our deck, this is a conditional WG Snapcaster Mage. I'm impressed.
As a closing thought, this can even make Oath of Nissa and Oath of Ajani better, because now those cards are better in multiples. Before, you had to use Flickerwisp on them for value. Now, you can play the second one, send the first to the graveyard, and return the first one using Renegade Rallier. If you have a Displacer too, you can do this every turn.
I know that it was WB E&T that pushed our deck up to Tier 2, but Renegade Rallier card is going to make WG a force to be reckoned with. I'm envisioning WG D&T to be at least Tier 2 shortly, if not Tier 1.5. This card is awesome.
Renegade Rallier looks promising. Not sure if it can replace EWit though! They most impactful difference is that EWit is getting you back into a game with an empty board. While you can chain EWit into Wisp into Wisp or Displacer, you're limited in doing so with Rallier. You have to have TE/GQ online or a fetch, or wait for something that flickers (yes, he is a great flicker target). Still you can't revive the most part of the creatures, as we try to have a decent amount of three drops.
If Rallier becomes an important card for our deck, I think we just start to redesign our curve. To a certain extent, Catmix already does this; sometimes he runs more two drops than three drops.
I think Eternal Witness is a mistake for the current metagame. That may change in two weeks, but for now, there is way too much aggro in the format to be concerned about grindy matchups. Eternal Witness is good, but it's better when the metagame is slower. Until the metagame adjusts to the release of Aether Revolt, I'm pretty sure I'll be making short term changes to test out Renegade Rallier instead.
Renegade Rallier on the other hand is potentially more powerful in non-reactive one-turn plays. Like play GQ, pop it, get it back, pop it again. Same goes for Qasali, however this would be too slow most of the time. Revolt in general is relatively easy to activate, but not necessarily in our deck. Someone brewed with Eldrich Evolution. Maybe there's someting possible here? T2 sac dork, get Rallier, get back dork isn't the strongest line of play, but it's a start.
I'm the one that's talked about Eldritch Evolution, mostly because I like toolbox decks and I like to brew. I think there's something there, but not with Rallier. I'd much rather be CoCo-ing into a Rallier than sacrificing a dork to get there. Rallier generates value with a lot of things, notably Voice of Resurgence and Selfless Spirit. But having to sacrifice a Noble Hierarch just doesn't seem worth it.
If you remove Leonin Arbiter you might as well play another deck.
As Catmix proves time and time again, this statement isn't necessarily correct. I'm still running Arbiters myself, but Catmix makes those Revokers look really, really good.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Revoker is decent, probably as a SB card as it isn't live against every deck but I don't think it can replace Arbiter in the maindeck and I certainly wouldn't run 4x.
Revoker is decent, probably as a SB card as it isn't live against every deck but I don't think it can replace Arbiter in the maindeck and I certainly wouldn't run 4x.
Watching it on stream will change your mind.
Revoker may not do the same thing as Arbiter, but it is differently brutal, equally vulnerable, and easier to cast. It seems like a sideboard card, but if you have strong enough knowledge of the metagame, then it's maindeckable. The only problem is that it doesn't shut down creaturelands, although it makes up for that a little bit by hitting manadorks.
Think about it this way: even though Revoker is dead in certain matchups, so is Arbiter. Arbiter has better internal synergy with the rest of our deck, but it becomes significantly less useful after your opponent has reached 4 lands. Depending on the matchup, Revoker is a card that demands an answer, because your opponent won't be able to close out the game without removing it.
@Catmix: I never thought I'd be defending Revoker... but I guess there's a first time for everything.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Lol 5 drops might be the requirement by the end of the month lol #fatalpush
There was people testing Gearhulk not too long ago and it stopped even being discussed because it was rough on the mana and not winning the game on the spot. Going forward I think D&Ts will have to go 23 lands and 24 if playing TKS and Baron, these kind of card pushes the games to go longer and stopping nonsense like Infect and DS Zoo, I think Baron is likely to be a key player in the upcoming metagame although not sure if for DnT, but from BWx decks like Junk and maybe Esper if it rises with maybe 1 more good printing.
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In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
I don't think it is a maindeck card (just like Meddling Mage in U/W) as casting it requires knowing exactly what you want to name and even then it can be rather low impact and played around until it gets removed.
Arbiter on the other hand is live against most decks and has a direct impact on the board with Path/Ghost Quarter or just being vialed in or flickered in response to a fetch.
It is good against: "Affinity", "Tron" and "Lantern" (and maybe "Bant Eldrazi") but weaker against "Jund/Abzan", "Infect", "Grixis Delver", "UR Prowess", "Death Shadow".
Both do rather little against "Burn" and "Dredge" but I would prefer Arbiter there in case of nut-draws that can shut down their mana completely.
One question guys. Do you usually keep hands that have vial and 4 lands? for example, something like ghost quarter, temple, plains, WB land, vial, thalia and leoning?
I tend to mull those hands because they 5 sources of mana, but also aether vial is a really good card in this deck.
Also, does someone have a sideboard guide? Im starting with the deck and I dont know if im sideaboarding properly
If your hand has Vial Thalia and Arbiter -unless it's a SB game and those cards are not the best- it's usually an insta keep, almost every topdeck is live from Vial and slamming that t1 vial, t2 Thalia, t3 ARbiter with a GQ is the best reason to play the deck..
Now if your example was 4 random lands, vial, crusader and tidehollow I'd mull. I think you didn't choose the best example for your point, but I get it and it's understandable.
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In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
Hey spiderspace is that you that he plays in his round 1? Either way he offers some very interesting observations when playing against 8 rack that may be worth a watch.
Is the lifelink on Gifted Aetherborn worth the double black cost as opposed to using something like Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim who is easier to cast for the same stats (trade lifelink for ability)?
@charonsobol thanks for being my martyr lol. After playing magic for as many years as I have (ugh almost 20 yrs), I know the greatest part of the game is disagreeing and playing what cards work best for "you". A part of this also becomes not making other people wrong for their ideas, right? I won't sell people on my strategies if they are not interested and won't make them wrong for how they implement theirs. However, I'll disagree the f*** outa someone until one of us passes out lol.
I appreciate you being able to play devil's advocate to revoker, man! We've come a long way. Long live the "crazy cat lady" and pissed off avacyns!
Hey spiderspace is that you that he plays in his round 1? Either way he offers some very interesting observations when playing against 8 rack that may be worth a watch.
Came here to post this. This video provides good insight from the opposite side of the table. Thalia is backbreaking against so many decks.
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Your success in playing dnt/hatebears is determined largely by your ability to read and prepare for the meta that you will be playing in. Furthermore, it has an absolutely brutal learning curve. Expect to lose; a lot.
Hey spiderspace is that you that he plays in his round 1? Either way he offers some very interesting observations when playing against 8 rack that may be worth a watch.
Yes, that was me playing either Charons list or my variant thereof. I only vaguely recall it and as he points out, I didn't make the tightest of plays. I suppose I can see how I should have played against his 8rack deck. Note to self: keep up spellqueller against 8rack.
Also, does someone have a sideboard guide? Im starting with the deck and I dont know if im sideaboarding properly
I made a fairly extensive thing on how to make your SB which there is a link of in the primer, but also here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/tier-2-modern/724274-death-and-taxes?page=83#c2066 .
Unfortunately, I don't go into what specific cards should come out or go in depending on what matchups simply because there are so many variants of our deck that it would be an even larger write-up. That is something that is eventually in the works, but then comes the problem that I need a stock list for each variant with stock sideboards to go with them. Furthermore, what is stock depends on the meta and as things change, so would the guide. For instance, my writeup can easily be dated by when dredge come back to modern.
Nonetheless, I think it's a good starting spot.
If you would like, you can post your list and SB and we can tell you how we would SB and or make critiques on your 75.
Against almost anything, because at the end of a game, your opponent just plays around Arbiter. Unlike Mindcensor, Arbiter is just an inconvenience in the late game, not a must-answer card.
I don't think it is a maindeck card (just like Meddling Mage in U/W) as casting it requires knowing exactly what you want to name and even then it can be rather low impact and played around until it gets removed.
I know you think this is an apt comparison, but it's not. You have to play Meddling Mage before your opponent can play their spell, whereas Revoker shuts down cards that are already on the battlefield. As a result, Revoker is significantly more effective than Meddling Mage.
Arbiter on the other hand is live against most decks and has a direct impact on the board with Path/Ghost Quarter or just being vialed in or flickered in response to a fetch.
Revoker is also live against most decks and it also has a direct impact on the board. When your opponent can't tap Noble Hierarch for mana, that's a good day.
I agree with you that Arbiter has better synergy with the rest of our deck, but Revoker stops a lot of decks from doing unfair things to win the game.
It is good against: "Affinity", "Tron" and "Lantern" (and maybe "Bant Eldrazi") but weaker against "Jund/Abzan", "Infect", "Grixis Delver", "UR Prowess", "Death Shadow".
Both do rather little against "Burn" and "Dredge" but I would prefer Arbiter there in case of nut-draws that can shut down their mana completely.
Once upon a time, I think Catmix typed up a list of Revoker targets by deck. (@Catmix: am I remembering that right?) But frankly, I'd almost rather run Mindcensor than Arbiter against a lot of the field that you just named.
As a person who likes math, the "nut draw" argument is a bad one. It's statistically unlikely to begin with, and it's often only a decent line when your opponent doesn't know what he or she is doing. I'd much rather back my opponent into a corner than rely on him or her being bad at Magic.
Hey spiderspace is that you that he plays in his round 1? Either way he offers some very interesting observations when playing against 8 rack that may be worth a watch.
Yes, that was me playing either Charons list or my variant thereof. I only vaguely recall it and as he points out, I didn't make the tightest of plays. I suppose I can see how I should have played against his 8rack deck. Note to self: keep up spellqueller against 8rack.
I like how nobody pointed out that you were on a Bant list. You literally lead with a Forest and have a hand with double Spell Queller, and nobody seems to think that's strange. I'm going to put that in the "win" column for Bant D&T.
Nope. Move along. Nothing to see here. *shuffles up Bant D&T*
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
@CharonsObol thatbis correct. I had a link in my sig but since removed it. As the mod, I want to be as neutral in the thread as possible and between that and set reviews, it was causing more arguments than being helpful. You can access it in leonin's library via the primer if interested.
@spiderspace your sb guide is also in the leonin's library.
I'm thinking of going this route as a starting point
4x Path to Exile
1x Fatal Push
4x Dark Confidant
3x Tidehollow Sculler
3x Gifted Aetherborn
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Flickerwisp
2x Aven Mindcensor
1x Mirran Crusader
1x Vampire Nighthawk
1x Lingering Souls
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
4x Godless Shrine
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Fetid Heath
2x Shambling Vent
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Vault of the Archangel
3x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Fatal Push
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
2x Stony Silence
2x Rest in Peace
2x Zealous Persecution
1x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2x Lingering Souls
I finished a Friendly League today 5-0! The stream starts off with "One who's name we shall not speak" suggesting to test Eldrazi and Taxes...
We finished that league 3-2 losing to two Blood Moon decks. It was really annoying because the mana base is already annoying and losing to Magus & Moons made me want to drop my computer out the window.
With My updated Lingering Taxes list, we finished 5-0 (co-streamed with @CharonsObol)! This was the jam honestly. The main deck and board just sang all the way through. We even named the cards off the top a couple of times. I really think between the last stream and this one, You should watch and observe the power Lingering Souls brings to Death and Taxes. Some of you are new and probably will have questions and the previous stream answers most of them!
Here goes the deck:
4 Path to Exile
4 Lingering Souls
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Spellskite
3 Selfless Spirit
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
2 Fiend Hunter
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Tectonic Edge
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Plains
1 Godless Shrine
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Rest In Peace
3 Sin Collector
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Sword of Fire And Ice
1 Gisela, the Broken Blade
The first 4 matches are on stream (My Youtube or Twitch Channels) and the last one was against Eggs/Open The Vaults (2-0). The shining reason for that win was access to revoker, Thought-knot Seer, and Sin Collector. See you guys later!
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
@Agua_benta blood baron might be really good going forward. 5 mana is kind. If roughy though?
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
I played 2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa in my sideboard of BW tokens when i was piloting that as a secondary deck and it's fantastic against Jund, Abzan and ESPECIALLY Grixis. Grixis needs 2 bolts to kill if and it swings races dramatically. Having protection from the 2 hard colors of removal in modern shouldn't be underestimated. If 5 drops are playable in modern right now, I'd throw out testing it on your next stream D&Catmix
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
Well of the options posted i think Blood Baron is by far the one worth testing. Helps that it's half a tic on MTGO
If Rallier becomes an important card for our deck, I think we just start to redesign our curve. To a certain extent, Catmix already does this; sometimes he runs more two drops than three drops.
I think Eternal Witness is a mistake for the current metagame. That may change in two weeks, but for now, there is way too much aggro in the format to be concerned about grindy matchups. Eternal Witness is good, but it's better when the metagame is slower. Until the metagame adjusts to the release of Aether Revolt, I'm pretty sure I'll be making short term changes to test out Renegade Rallier instead.
I'm the one that's talked about Eldritch Evolution, mostly because I like toolbox decks and I like to brew. I think there's something there, but not with Rallier. I'd much rather be CoCo-ing into a Rallier than sacrificing a dork to get there. Rallier generates value with a lot of things, notably Voice of Resurgence and Selfless Spirit. But having to sacrifice a Noble Hierarch just doesn't seem worth it.
I like EWit, but I just don't think it works in the current metagame.
As Catmix proves time and time again, this statement isn't necessarily correct. I'm still running Arbiters myself, but Catmix makes those Revokers look really, really good.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
Revoker may not do the same thing as Arbiter, but it is differently brutal, equally vulnerable, and easier to cast. It seems like a sideboard card, but if you have strong enough knowledge of the metagame, then it's maindeckable. The only problem is that it doesn't shut down creature lands, although it makes up for that a little bit by hitting mana dorks.
Think about it this way: even though Revoker is dead in certain matchups, so is Arbiter. Arbiter has better internal synergy with the rest of our deck, but it becomes significantly less useful after your opponent has reached 4 lands. Depending on the matchup, Revoker is a card that demands an answer, because your opponent won't be able to close out the game without removing it.
@Catmix: I never thought I'd be defending Revoker... but I guess there's a first time for everything.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
There was people testing Gearhulk not too long ago and it stopped even being discussed because it was rough on the mana and not winning the game on the spot. Going forward I think D&Ts will have to go 23 lands and 24 if playing TKS and Baron, these kind of card pushes the games to go longer and stopping nonsense like Infect and DS Zoo, I think Baron is likely to be a key player in the upcoming metagame although not sure if for DnT, but from BWx decks like Junk and maybe Esper if it rises with maybe 1 more good printing.
Against what ?
I don't think it is a maindeck card (just like Meddling Mage in U/W) as casting it requires knowing exactly what you want to name and even then it can be rather low impact and played around until it gets removed.
Arbiter on the other hand is live against most decks and has a direct impact on the board with Path/Ghost Quarter or just being vialed in or flickered in response to a fetch.
It is good against: "Affinity", "Tron" and "Lantern" (and maybe "Bant Eldrazi") but weaker against "Jund/Abzan", "Infect", "Grixis Delver", "UR Prowess", "Death Shadow".
Both do rather little against "Burn" and "Dredge" but I would prefer Arbiter there in case of nut-draws that can shut down their mana completely.
If your hand has Vial Thalia and Arbiter -unless it's a SB game and those cards are not the best- it's usually an insta keep, almost every topdeck is live from Vial and slamming that t1 vial, t2 Thalia, t3 ARbiter with a GQ is the best reason to play the deck..
Now if your example was 4 random lands, vial, crusader and tidehollow I'd mull. I think you didn't choose the best example for your point, but I get it and it's understandable.
Hey spiderspace is that you that he plays in his round 1? Either way he offers some very interesting observations when playing against 8 rack that may be worth a watch.
Is the lifelink on Gifted Aetherborn worth the double black cost as opposed to using something like Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim who is easier to cast for the same stats (trade lifelink for ability)?
I appreciate you being able to play devil's advocate to revoker, man! We've come a long way. Long live the "crazy cat lady" and pissed off avacyns!
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
Came here to post this. This video provides good insight from the opposite side of the table. Thalia is backbreaking against so many decks.
Yes, that was me playing either Charons list or my variant thereof. I only vaguely recall it and as he points out, I didn't make the tightest of plays. I suppose I can see how I should have played against his 8rack deck. Note to self: keep up spellqueller against 8rack.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
I made a fairly extensive thing on how to make your SB which there is a link of in the primer, but also here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/tier-2-modern/724274-death-and-taxes?page=83#c2066 .
Unfortunately, I don't go into what specific cards should come out or go in depending on what matchups simply because there are so many variants of our deck that it would be an even larger write-up. That is something that is eventually in the works, but then comes the problem that I need a stock list for each variant with stock sideboards to go with them. Furthermore, what is stock depends on the meta and as things change, so would the guide. For instance, my writeup can easily be dated by when dredge come back to modern.
Nonetheless, I think it's a good starting spot.
If you would like, you can post your list and SB and we can tell you how we would SB and or make critiques on your 75.
~Spider
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
I know you think this is an apt comparison, but it's not. You have to play Meddling Mage before your opponent can play their spell, whereas Revoker shuts down cards that are already on the battlefield. As a result, Revoker is significantly more effective than Meddling Mage.
Revoker is also live against most decks and it also has a direct impact on the board. When your opponent can't tap Noble Hierarch for mana, that's a good day.
I agree with you that Arbiter has better synergy with the rest of our deck, but Revoker stops a lot of decks from doing unfair things to win the game.
Once upon a time, I think Catmix typed up a list of Revoker targets by deck. (@Catmix: am I remembering that right?) But frankly, I'd almost rather run Mindcensor than Arbiter against a lot of the field that you just named.
As a person who likes math, the "nut draw" argument is a bad one. It's statistically unlikely to begin with, and it's often only a decent line when your opponent doesn't know what he or she is doing. I'd much rather back my opponent into a corner than rely on him or her being bad at Magic.
I like how nobody pointed out that you were on a Bant list. You literally lead with a Forest and have a hand with double Spell Queller, and nobody seems to think that's strange. I'm going to put that in the "win" column for Bant D&T.
Nope. Move along. Nothing to see here. *shuffles up Bant D&T*
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
@spiderspace your sb guide is also in the leonin's library.
Much love y'all,
-Catmix.
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