I could definitely see Restoration Angel as an alternative to Serra Avenger. She's a bit bigger (yay Boltproof!), she can flicker one of your dudes (hopefully for value), and she doesn't need Vial to get flashed in. All of these are positives. The one thing I don't like is that she kind of puts a crimp in the land hate plan, because that 3W has to come from somewhere. I also don't ever want to put the Vial on 4 charge counters. Your swaps relative to my list look pretty good - Brimaz is a lot less necessary if you have Resto, and Thalia, Heretic Cathar is very admittedly a flex slot. Aven Mindcensor is plenty good as shuffle hate pieces 5-6, especially if (again) Resto is providing the beef.
I tested Smuggler's Copter as well. It didn't do very well for me. Topdecking it felt pretty bad. You could definitely test it more extensively than I did, though.
Hello everybody!
I just wanted to introduce myself. I'm mostly a limited player but wanted to play modern as well. I always really liked DnT (legacy and modern) and so it was an easy choice to start with this. Since about two months I'm playing the mono white version on mtgo and I truly enjoy playing it. Until now I played about 150 matches in the tournament practice room and have a total winrate of 71%.
I started on a budget list but am currently slowly buying myself into it. I'm still constantly adapting my list and trying new cards.
Some insight I gained during this process: At least the mono white version wants to be quite aggressive. To be that, you need to lower your curve. Many DnT decks actually have a pretty bad curve. In the "turn 4" format and especially the current metagame, you don't want to be spending your first and sometimes even second turn doing absolutely nothing. This is why I play this many two drops and I think they are crucial to the deck. Having a low curve also means that you can trade your lands more aggressively, enhancing the tempo aspect of the deck even further. Additionally I like having many fliers - they just close out games really quickly.
About the specific card choices:
Selfless Spirit: I like this little guy. It is a good clock, makes combat math difficult, protects your other creatures (is especially nice in combination with serra avenger as you can swing and defend with a potentially indestructible serra avenger which makes racing not a viable option for the opponent) and is an insurance against wrath. He just doesn't want to face lingering souls... 3-4 seems correct to me.
Serra Avenger: This guy is a real threat. Flying and vigilance is both really important. Double white can be annoying but Vial helps a lot. With that many two drops you can often curve two drop t2, into three drop t3 into two drop and serra avenger on t4 which puts on some serious pression. 2-3 seems correct to me.
Brimaz, King of Oreskos: Being non-boltable is a huge deal. Having vigilance and spitting out tokens is nice too. I like having cards that can potentially take over a game if left unchecked and Brimaz does exactly this. Being legendary means 2 is where you want to be.
Mirran Crusader: Really good in the right matchup. Easy cut in the others. He is more of sideboard card that is good enough in general to be played in the mainboard. I like having 2.
Thalia Heretic Cathar: For a long time I wasn't convinced but now I think she's actually pretty good. She especially helps in the combo matchup (including something like dredge) which can't be said about too many of the other cards. This additional taxing effect synergizes well with old Thalia and Arbiter. Being legendary means max. 2 for me.
Blade Splicer: Newest addition to the deck. I'm still trying it out. Until now it has not been spectacular though.
Hero of Bladehold: Originally in the deck because of budget reasons, this card has really impressed me. He is bolt-proof and just a huge clock. He closes games like no one else. He attacks for 7 on the first turn and for 11 on the second. Thats 18 damage from one guy over two turns. Additionally the damage is divided over many bodies which makes chumping less effective and if you have any other creatures (especially fliers) this guy pumps your whole team. It is nice having a selfless spirit to let him and the tokens survive any form of combat. Probably not the right choice in a more controlling list (like deathandcatmix plays) but imho well suited in a more aggressive approach. Give this guy a try. 2 because I want to keep the curve low.
2Tectonic Edge 2Sea Gate Wreckage: I like having the equal split as both can really be amazing in different matchups (tron/jund). Unfortunately I often don't have a colorless source to activate Sea gate. I wouldn't run more non-white sources as the mana base is, surprisingly, already at it limits as it stands. Serra Avenger and all the double white three drops really want you to have a high plains count. If I had the necessary funds I would play 3+ horizon canopies, replacing basic plains.
The rest should be self explanatory.
Sideboard: Burrenton Forge-Tender over Kor Firewalker. He comes down earlier, is easier to cast and protects you against some wraths. I strongly recommend this. Blessed Alliance is a nice versatile card. I like having these in my board. Espeth, Knight-Errant is the newest addition against jund/grixis/mardu/control/boltsnapbolt.deck . Maybe I will go up to two.
With the inclusion of Blace Splicer and Elspeth I tried to increase my chances against attrition based decks, be it jund or grixis control or something similar. Also Uw control can be tough to beat. These are by far my worst matchups.
I do like this list against all sorts of aggro (infect, burn, death shadow, affinity...), combo and of course tron.
Tried and dismissed:
Most importantly: Phyrexian Revoker, Mangara, Dryad Militant, Weathered Wayfarer, Ethersworn Canonist
Well this post turned out longer than initially thought. I really enjoy this thread and all the insight you guys give on a regular basis. Thank you all for this!
@D90Dennis14 Thanks for replying!
I tested spirit version of the deck and I didn't like. Spell Queller was very narrow almost anytime. I'd rather play Vendilion in all matchups that SQ showed up in my hand. Every time I quelled a spell, the card required a lot of effort to protect it and when I couldn't, it was a blowout. My best performance was a top 2 in a PPTQ running them, but they were pretty bad back then. I regretted that time that they weren't anything else, like eldrazi displacer or anythingnotdependant.
My MU's were 1 GWB flayer (Won), 1 GW enchantress (?!)(Won), 1 RGB jund (Won), 2 dredges (Lost,Won), 2 xrobots (ID,Won) and finals against an old rhino abzan (Lost).
Neither of these matchups Spell Queller really did something really relevant. I'd say that it buy me a time against attrition a bit in a couple matches perhaps, but I don't really remember. I do remember that I didn't like it haha
I won't say that the version is bad, but I'd say that it didn't work the way I like to play or it is just my playstyle that didn't fit with the deck.
I'm trying faeries because in my proxies test, pestermite was impressive and so was Vendilion Clique (which I'll try to put back in the 60s). I'm a bit skeptical with spellstutter sprite, but a guy (aka 1me) must try before saying that is bad. I tested Mistbind Clique too and surprised me in games that I had another faerie, but it requires more than just a couple faeries or jam a couple of mutagolemfaeries in maindeck and mess the manabase.
So, this deck is a project that I'll be training until my next GP, in August ( ). I have a team to help me too, but you're taxers like me (in fact, I'm a taxer like you) and because of that, your opinions is twice more important about the deck. Maybe my faeries dnt deck isn't the shell it should be, but the fact you can always be creative to fight the metagame and its tricks are what make me love this deck.
EDIT: @Stabil0 I like your list and it is something very similiar to old school hehe.
About Blade Splicer, I guess that it is better with Restoration Angel, but it conflicts with Ria Ivor. I can't say which is better between hero and resto, so I'll pass this. I consider it a player's choice. Another thought, I have the same opinion about Mirran Crusader and because of that, he left my 75 sadly . I'll try to give him another shot though
I am sick of all these Eldrazis, Tarmogoyfs, Kalitas, and other big creatures!!! Any suggestions? I'm ready to slam in 4 Royal Assassin and Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Eldrazi Displacer to kill them whenever they even try to cast a creature.
Interesting discussion on Serra Avenger, I originally abandoned it because I thought it was inconsistent but I think I'll try it again.
Jendo87: Isn't Intrepid Hero a strictly worse version of Mangara of Corondor and no one seems to play it. After testing it was in part good because of the land/other permanent destruction(or rather exiling) and has synergy with Resto.
That being said I see how Loyal Sentry is helpful. As far as Big Game Hunter the 2 black mana may make it hard to play kind of like clique in U/W.
As far as not playing with arbiter I would think that any deck doing so would at least by a 2 color if not 3 color deck. With the availability of as many fetch-lands as needed thinks like Bant D&T would we very successful. The problem is that as far as I can see arbiter is in a way the backbone of the hate package along with Thalia. If I'm cutting him, it means that cards like Vendilion Clique and other hard to reach cards become more available, therefore I'd play them, not stick with the same general list.
I don't think that mangara is strictly better than intrepid hero. 3/x creatures dies to first strikers (splicer, thc or wall of resurgence with 0/6) in our deck normally. So, a card that leaves the battlefield and stays, I'd go hero in this case. Thalia, Heretic Cathar, Reflector mage, eldrazi displacer, Fiend Hunter/Banishing Priest are also good responses to big threats.
Looking back at the discussion we just had starting with leyline of sanctity and creating a "stock list" for D&T, I'd like to highlight something about the nature of D&T that we all know, but sometimes need to be reminded of.
D&T is, by definition, a "meta" deck. That means that we shape our deck to beat what we see in the meta. This changes as different decks gain or lose popularity both overall as well as at your local store. Since we all may play at different events, we have to check what the top tier decks are generally speaking and try to hate out as many of them as we can. The kind of choices I'm talking about are things like bringing a list with MD mirran crusaders to a tournament where you might expect a high % of GBx players. This is a huge reason that D&T has more "flex" slots than your average (or I might argue any) modern deck. Having said that, there are certain cards that we tend to run regardless and have become "core" cards which most people play and generally shouldn't be cut. However, if you're going to an event where you might expect no tri color decks (ie no search lands), then something like leonin arbiter might not be the best call. I'm aware that type of thing doesn't happen often at high levels of play. It's more to emphasize the point that even core cards can be less good in certain metas. And we've seen movement away form cards that used to be considered "core", but aren't anymore such as with serra avenger which is hardly run anymore, but used to be in most versions of the deck. Thus it's hard to definitively say that someone is playing a suboptimal list for playing something like that. Perhaps someone is playing in a relatively bolt free meta, all of a sudden avenger is great. We have to balance that however with the fact that we are trying to make the deck competitive and that the goal of the forum is to push the deck to the best place it can be. Additionally, even if a card is a "core" piece, that might not make that card the optimal card. Just because something like 1 billion people smoke in the world doesn't mean that it's good for your health. Core cards have generally earned their slots, but if someone genuinely thinks they can bring a strong argument against such a card, then that's something we should talk about (sometimes we don't even have to talk about it; you'll see less and less lists run a card as people find that card not good against a similar field).
For almost a year, this thread argued about whether to play dryad militant or judge's familiar. I bet nowadays no one would touch either of those if they were premium foiled and signed. Perception of cards change and newer players will always come here for guidance. Suggest optimal cards and don't judge the ones that must learn on their own first hand.
On another note, streamed a bit today and really found the UW list to be pretty special. Viewer VRCross suggested trying venser shaper servant and that was truly a hilarious experience paired with eldrazi displacer. Check my stream to snap a peek at the list we were playing. Also feel free to replace revoker with arbiter for a more "at home" feeling.
Some possible good news for testing purposes. I do not have any local IQs until the new year. I don't really want to invest in playing Leagues on Mtg:o but I need to keep the chops up. I'm looking at playing leagues on stream and going for the glorious 5-0s lol. I'm just curious, if I stream it, what's a time of the week that yall would want to check in for that?
@deathandcatmix Since you and @jendo87 are regular streamers (there are others that I don't remember just now), I'd really love if one of you could spend a bit of your time to test pestermite in a W/u list (those flex spots) with reflector mage (of course). It's working for me, but I'm having trouble to test it more frequently for a couple days. It'd be very helpful to see this brew in someone elses' hands. Thank you
EDIT:
Look this, 2 more Dnt decks (labeled as hatebears, sigh...)
@Stabil0 with 4 selfless spirits main deck you may be able to take out those BFTs in your sideboard since most of the time they are doing the same thing.
edit:
I bet nowadays no one would touch either of those if they were premium foiled and signed.
I just need to get mine signed to prove you wrong, anyone know which GP Ryan Yee is going to be at next?
@LtGlitter My Sb definitely needs some tweaking. I agree that he is less useful once you have a selfless spirit out. But consider that he is not only wrath protection. Against burn for example it brickwalls their creatures completely and counters the lethal burn spell, practically gaining you three life. He is really good against all the aggressive red decks in general (goblins, ur tempo, death shadow, burn...)
Against ad nauseam it shuts off lightning storm.
But I agree that it may be excessive. 2 could be sufficient.
I think I could shave one BFT and one ghostly prison. Maybe going for the second Elspeth and a celestial purge.
@deathandcatmix the streaming hours don't really matter to me. As I am from Europe I will just watch it later anyway. But I'm definitely looking forward to it.
About Dryad Militant: I think the powerlevel of this card is just too low. Having neither first strike nor flying means he can't profitably attack more often than not. Exiling some instants and sorceries can be nice but in most cases it just doesn't matter. Especially in the abzan and infect matchup I would not want to see this card in my opener.
Hey guys! I think I'd like to dwo things regarding streaming;
1. I want to stream today and I can try some of the things we've been talking about lately as well as show off my new version of WU which I've had decent success with in the leagues. Is there a particular time of day that works better for people? Also, I'm always down to costream.
2. In terms of picking a regular time and day, I'm open to suggestions. I am busy, but if you guys PM I can get an idea of when works best for everybody.
@Jendo great write up there. I'm sure that took you a good while since you were so thorough, but with the above list, would you mind going through with us how you'd side against that stock Jund list? I mean, both for games 2 and 3 if it happens, taking into consideration being on the play and being on the draw respectively.
I missed this question sorry spider,
If im on the play, I take out 2 Thalia's, 2 Wisp, 1 TKS, 1 Vial, 1 noble, 1 arbiter for 3 leylines, 2 lingering souls, 2 Relic and a Surgical, reasoning behind this is I'm able to try for a turn 2 GC but I don't want to force it, I do want to see nobles but not alot of them, same with the 2 drops that only offer early game interaction, I know that can be fantastic when you can get them early however past turn 5/6 I find them to be a disapointment, arbiter is slightly better on the play but a terrible top deck past turn 5/6, same with thalia, Lingering souls can just win by themselves in most jund games, pitching it to lili is funny and by the time i get to flash it back I have black mana from the fetches, and if arbiter/thalia is out past turn 4-5 then I'm already in the winning position.
If im on the draw it does change a bit, Nobles come out, 1 arbiter, 1 thalia, 1 vial and 1 wisp for 3 leylines, 2 souls, 2 relics and 1 surgical, It mostly comes down to you rarely get a good amount from the Hierarch sadly and never want to draw it past turn 2 if that, there's not too much I want to pump out early other than the normal things and I'd like to have my threats do more than what noble does, albeit the jund list does have some stranger selection of cards so it does depend on what I see, I don't like to remove flyers in that match up but since I have an abundance of them with souls/nexus its actually fine, I regularly find that blinkmoth does about 4-5 damage in that jund matchup, and even more if it can get the wall trigger resolve and not have it bolted, strangely it does dodge abrupt decay and maelstrom pulse (sure they are not really a 4 of in jund but its nice that it does dodge it) which has some relevance, flying means that its not getting blocked too unless they have souls too.
I find surgical to be really useful at taking away some of their inevitability, if you can kill a goyf stripping that threat away can be a nice comfort and you can save your paths for something else that is relevant, or just taking some troublesome removal from their hand can be nice, its probably alot better if you can see their hand before if you have something like a tidehollow sculler to truely "gettem", however its got some great tricks in other matches and it has some relevance here too I find 1 is enough to not dilute my plan atleast.
Souls is the king to jund, they will clock the opponent or block till you can resolve something more important, its fun to see them wasting abrupt decays terminates and bolts on a single token because you know you have won that trade, not playing into their sweepers is what we all should be doing anyways so I think we can look past it being bad to anger. Its also immune to IOK/seize so i like that
Hope that helps and sorry for missing it before!
Edit:
PS: I do have a strange list I know, but it works well for me I enjoy Blinkmoth, wall of resurgence, along with a majority of what is considered the "core", Smasher has been a nice finisher too, I consider it to be similar to that of sigarda, which I have tested and like as well mind you.
That's fine! Thanks for going back and answering my question! I really like seeing how people SB against decks because it seems we often do it very differently. I think even if I played your exact list, I might SB differently. For instance, I tend to not want to cut something like vial or hierarch.
@ltglitter keeping foil militant on the radar! No love for promo j Fam? Anyway glad y'all saw that it wasn't a stab and more just a perspective shift. Also, @spiderspace has an amazing take on UW taxes. The testing we did last night has me driving to a shop right now to pick up some missing pieces for paper.
Ps. Venser Shaper Servant is a nut with Displacer. Makes the Mangara lock way less appealing. I know that wasn't that great anyway but this one is like having broken versions of wisp.
If spider isn't streaming, I'm gunna jam a session today.
@ltglitter keeping foil militant on the radar! No love for promo j Fam? Anyway glad y'all saw that it wasn't a stab and more just a perspective shift. Also, @spiderspace has an amazing take on UW taxes. The testing we did last night has me driving to a shop right now to pick up some missing pieces for paper.
Ps. Venser Shaper Servant is a nut with Displacer. Makes the Mangara lock way less appealing. I know that wasn't that great anyway but this one is like having broken versions of wisp.
If spider isn't streaming, I'm gunna jam a session today.
The interactions between Dryad Militant, Finks, Anafenza, and Wilt-Leaf Leige let you get pretty aggressive in mono-white.
I like Resto over Avenger because it requires more specific answers (e.g., Path, Terminate) and gives you immediate value. I usually bring in 2x RIP, 2x Crusader, and whatever other interaction I feel is relevant (sunlance, blessed alliance, celestial purge, etc) and start shaving cards that do not generate immediate value, including vial. At the end of the day the match up is about managing resources and tight play, so you want every mana investment to generate value. Sure, some of their hands will be too good to come back from, but that's the case for a lot of decks.
Also, I like what's going on with the UW testing. Maybe I can shake the dust off of my Pestermites since Twin is retired lol
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I tested Smuggler's Copter as well. It didn't do very well for me. Topdecking it felt pretty bad. You could definitely test it more extensively than I did, though.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
If you are playing U/W why not go with Spell Queller + Mausoleum Wanderer over Spellstutter Sprite + Pestermite ?
There is also Nebelgast Herald as the spirit version of Pestermite for some synergy.
Spell Queller seems like the main reason to go U/W imho (as well as Reflector Mage and SB Meddling Mage/Vendilion Clique).
Without Eldrazi Temple and with Flickerwisp + Restoration Angel I find Eldrazi Displacer not that needed/useful.
I would rather have Blade Splicer/Kitchen Finks/Thalia, Heretic Cathar instead.
Here is my take on U/W D&T:
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Leonin Arbiter
3x Selfless Spirit
3x Blade Splicer
4x Flickerwisp
4x Reflector Mage
4x Spell Queller
1x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4x Restoration Angel
4x AEther Vial
Instant (4)
4x Path to Exile
Land (22)
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Seachrome Coast
4x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Mystic Gate
1x Eiganjo Castle
3x Plains
1x Island
2x Detention Sphere
2x Fragmentize
4x Kitchen Finks
2x Rest in Peace
2x Meddling Mage
2x Stony Silence
1x Vendilion Clique
I just wanted to introduce myself. I'm mostly a limited player but wanted to play modern as well. I always really liked DnT (legacy and modern) and so it was an easy choice to start with this. Since about two months I'm playing the mono white version on mtgo and I truly enjoy playing it. Until now I played about 150 matches in the tournament practice room and have a total winrate of 71%.
This is the list I'm currently playing:
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Selfless Spirit
3 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
3 Blade Splicer
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Path to exile
4 Aether Vial
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Flagstones of Trokair
12 Plains
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Rest in Peace
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Sunlance
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Espeth, Knight-Errant
I started on a budget list but am currently slowly buying myself into it. I'm still constantly adapting my list and trying new cards.
Some insight I gained during this process: At least the mono white version wants to be quite aggressive. To be that, you need to lower your curve. Many DnT decks actually have a pretty bad curve. In the "turn 4" format and especially the current metagame, you don't want to be spending your first and sometimes even second turn doing absolutely nothing. This is why I play this many two drops and I think they are crucial to the deck. Having a low curve also means that you can trade your lands more aggressively, enhancing the tempo aspect of the deck even further. Additionally I like having many fliers - they just close out games really quickly.
About the specific card choices:
Selfless Spirit: I like this little guy. It is a good clock, makes combat math difficult, protects your other creatures (is especially nice in combination with serra avenger as you can swing and defend with a potentially indestructible serra avenger which makes racing not a viable option for the opponent) and is an insurance against wrath. He just doesn't want to face lingering souls... 3-4 seems correct to me.
Serra Avenger: This guy is a real threat. Flying and vigilance is both really important. Double white can be annoying but Vial helps a lot. With that many two drops you can often curve two drop t2, into three drop t3 into two drop and serra avenger on t4 which puts on some serious pression. 2-3 seems correct to me.
Brimaz, King of Oreskos: Being non-boltable is a huge deal. Having vigilance and spitting out tokens is nice too. I like having cards that can potentially take over a game if left unchecked and Brimaz does exactly this. Being legendary means 2 is where you want to be.
Mirran Crusader: Really good in the right matchup. Easy cut in the others. He is more of sideboard card that is good enough in general to be played in the mainboard. I like having 2.
Thalia Heretic Cathar: For a long time I wasn't convinced but now I think she's actually pretty good. She especially helps in the combo matchup (including something like dredge) which can't be said about too many of the other cards. This additional taxing effect synergizes well with old Thalia and Arbiter. Being legendary means max. 2 for me.
Blade Splicer: Newest addition to the deck. I'm still trying it out. Until now it has not been spectacular though.
Hero of Bladehold: Originally in the deck because of budget reasons, this card has really impressed me. He is bolt-proof and just a huge clock. He closes games like no one else. He attacks for 7 on the first turn and for 11 on the second. Thats 18 damage from one guy over two turns. Additionally the damage is divided over many bodies which makes chumping less effective and if you have any other creatures (especially fliers) this guy pumps your whole team. It is nice having a selfless spirit to let him and the tokens survive any form of combat. Probably not the right choice in a more controlling list (like deathandcatmix plays) but imho well suited in a more aggressive approach. Give this guy a try. 2 because I want to keep the curve low.
2Tectonic Edge 2Sea Gate Wreckage: I like having the equal split as both can really be amazing in different matchups (tron/jund). Unfortunately I often don't have a colorless source to activate Sea gate. I wouldn't run more non-white sources as the mana base is, surprisingly, already at it limits as it stands. Serra Avenger and all the double white three drops really want you to have a high plains count. If I had the necessary funds I would play 3+ horizon canopies, replacing basic plains.
The rest should be self explanatory.
Sideboard:
Burrenton Forge-Tender over Kor Firewalker. He comes down earlier, is easier to cast and protects you against some wraths. I strongly recommend this.
Blessed Alliance is a nice versatile card. I like having these in my board.
Espeth, Knight-Errant is the newest addition against jund/grixis/mardu/control/boltsnapbolt.deck . Maybe I will go up to two.
With the inclusion of Blace Splicer and Elspeth I tried to increase my chances against attrition based decks, be it jund or grixis control or something similar. Also Uw control can be tough to beat. These are by far my worst matchups.
I do like this list against all sorts of aggro (infect, burn, death shadow, affinity...), combo and of course tron.
Tried and dismissed:
Most importantly: Phyrexian Revoker, Mangara, Dryad Militant, Weathered Wayfarer, Ethersworn Canonist
Well this post turned out longer than initially thought. I really enjoy this thread and all the insight you guys give on a regular basis. Thank you all for this!
I tested spirit version of the deck and I didn't like. Spell Queller was very narrow almost anytime. I'd rather play Vendilion in all matchups that SQ showed up in my hand. Every time I quelled a spell, the card required a lot of effort to protect it and when I couldn't, it was a blowout. My best performance was a top 2 in a PPTQ running them, but they were pretty bad back then. I regretted that time that they weren't anything else, like eldrazi displacer or anything not dependant.
I won't say that the version is bad, but I'd say that it didn't work the way I like to play or it is just my playstyle that didn't fit with the deck.
I'm trying faeries because in my proxies test, pestermite was impressive and so was Vendilion Clique (which I'll try to put back in the 60s). I'm a bit skeptical with spellstutter sprite, but a guy (aka 1me) must try before saying that is bad. I tested Mistbind Clique too and surprised me in games that I had another faerie, but it requires more than just a couple faeries or jam a couple of mutagolemfaeries in maindeck and mess the manabase.
So, this deck is a project that I'll be training until my next GP, in August ( ). I have a team to help me too, but you're taxers like me (in fact, I'm a taxer like you) and because of that, your opinions is twice more important about the deck. Maybe my faeries dnt deck isn't the shell it should be, but the fact you can always be creative to fight the metagame and its tricks are what make me love this deck.
EDIT:
@Stabil0 I like your list and it is something very similiar to old school hehe.
About Blade Splicer, I guess that it is better with Restoration Angel, but it conflicts with Ria Ivor. I can't say which is better between hero and resto, so I'll pass this. I consider it a player's choice. Another thought, I have the same opinion about Mirran Crusader and because of that, he left my 75 sadly . I'll try to give him another shot though
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
Jendo87: Isn't Intrepid Hero a strictly worse version of Mangara of Corondor and no one seems to play it. After testing it was in part good because of the land/other permanent destruction(or rather exiling) and has synergy with Resto.
That being said I see how Loyal Sentry is helpful. As far as Big Game Hunter the 2 black mana may make it hard to play kind of like clique in U/W.
As far as not playing with arbiter I would think that any deck doing so would at least by a 2 color if not 3 color deck. With the availability of as many fetch-lands as needed thinks like Bant D&T would we very successful. The problem is that as far as I can see arbiter is in a way the backbone of the hate package along with Thalia. If I'm cutting him, it means that cards like Vendilion Clique and other hard to reach cards become more available, therefore I'd play them, not stick with the same general list.
D&T is, by definition, a "meta" deck. That means that we shape our deck to beat what we see in the meta. This changes as different decks gain or lose popularity both overall as well as at your local store. Since we all may play at different events, we have to check what the top tier decks are generally speaking and try to hate out as many of them as we can. The kind of choices I'm talking about are things like bringing a list with MD mirran crusaders to a tournament where you might expect a high % of GBx players. This is a huge reason that D&T has more "flex" slots than your average (or I might argue any) modern deck. Having said that, there are certain cards that we tend to run regardless and have become "core" cards which most people play and generally shouldn't be cut. However, if you're going to an event where you might expect no tri color decks (ie no search lands), then something like leonin arbiter might not be the best call. I'm aware that type of thing doesn't happen often at high levels of play. It's more to emphasize the point that even core cards can be less good in certain metas. And we've seen movement away form cards that used to be considered "core", but aren't anymore such as with serra avenger which is hardly run anymore, but used to be in most versions of the deck. Thus it's hard to definitively say that someone is playing a suboptimal list for playing something like that. Perhaps someone is playing in a relatively bolt free meta, all of a sudden avenger is great. We have to balance that however with the fact that we are trying to make the deck competitive and that the goal of the forum is to push the deck to the best place it can be. Additionally, even if a card is a "core" piece, that might not make that card the optimal card. Just because something like 1 billion people smoke in the world doesn't mean that it's good for your health. Core cards have generally earned their slots, but if someone genuinely thinks they can bring a strong argument against such a card, then that's something we should talk about (sometimes we don't even have to talk about it; you'll see less and less lists run a card as people find that card not good against a similar field).
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
For almost a year, this thread argued about whether to play dryad militant or judge's familiar. I bet nowadays no one would touch either of those if they were premium foiled and signed. Perception of cards change and newer players will always come here for guidance. Suggest optimal cards and don't judge the ones that must learn on their own first hand.
On another note, streamed a bit today and really found the UW list to be pretty special. Viewer VRCross suggested trying venser shaper servant and that was truly a hilarious experience paired with eldrazi displacer. Check my stream to snap a peek at the list we were playing. Also feel free to replace revoker with arbiter for a more "at home" feeling.
Some possible good news for testing purposes. I do not have any local IQs until the new year. I don't really want to invest in playing Leagues on Mtg:o but I need to keep the chops up. I'm looking at playing leagues on stream and going for the glorious 5-0s lol. I'm just curious, if I stream it, what's a time of the week that yall would want to check in for that?
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
EDIT:
Look this, 2 more Dnt decks (labeled as hatebears, sigh...)
EDIT: I'm pretty sure it is the rule that they are called hatebears on Mtgotop8 and not the exception.
edit:
I just need to get mine signed to prove you wrong, anyone know which GP Ryan Yee is going to be at next?
I thought so too, but there are records labeled as death and taxes, including a couple w/u dnt
Against ad nauseam it shuts off lightning storm.
But I agree that it may be excessive. 2 could be sufficient.
I think I could shave one BFT and one ghostly prison. Maybe going for the second Elspeth and a celestial purge.
@deathandcatmix the streaming hours don't really matter to me. As I am from Europe I will just watch it later anyway. But I'm definitely looking forward to it.
About Dryad Militant: I think the powerlevel of this card is just too low. Having neither first strike nor flying means he can't profitably attack more often than not. Exiling some instants and sorceries can be nice but in most cases it just doesn't matter. Especially in the abzan and infect matchup I would not want to see this card in my opener.
1. I want to stream today and I can try some of the things we've been talking about lately as well as show off my new version of WU which I've had decent success with in the leagues. Is there a particular time of day that works better for people? Also, I'm always down to costream.
2. In terms of picking a regular time and day, I'm open to suggestions. I am busy, but if you guys PM I can get an idea of when works best for everybody.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
That's fine! Thanks for going back and answering my question! I really like seeing how people SB against decks because it seems we often do it very differently. I think even if I played your exact list, I might SB differently. For instance, I tend to not want to cut something like vial or hierarch.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
Ps. Venser Shaper Servant is a nut with Displacer. Makes the Mangara lock way less appealing. I know that wasn't that great anyway but this one is like having broken versions of wisp.
If spider isn't streaming, I'm gunna jam a session today.
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
Thanks man! Let's costream it!
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
I like Resto over Avenger because it requires more specific answers (e.g., Path, Terminate) and gives you immediate value. I usually bring in 2x RIP, 2x Crusader, and whatever other interaction I feel is relevant (sunlance, blessed alliance, celestial purge, etc) and start shaving cards that do not generate immediate value, including vial. At the end of the day the match up is about managing resources and tight play, so you want every mana investment to generate value. Sure, some of their hands will be too good to come back from, but that's the case for a lot of decks.
Also, I like what's going on with the UW testing. Maybe I can shake the dust off of my Pestermites since Twin is retired lol