Burning Inquiry is not a good card. Its a very much a circle discussion on this guy. It always seems like cool tech, people try it, it blows out some games for them, they thing its amazing, then slowly but surely cut all copies due to being insanely inconstant.
Don't run it.
Totally agree. Tried it when the GGT was still in the format and was too ustable. I runed today a last chance and well, loosed in the semis to Storm...again...
Match 1, vs Titanshift
Game 1: He leads on Prismatic Omen, which is pretty much a dead giveaway of what he is doing. I play the game carfully to avoid a blowout from Anger of the Gods, and pressure him with 2 Narcomoebas and 2 Bloodghasts, while keeping one Ghast and 3 Amalgams in my graveyard, choosing not to return the Ghast after playing a fetchland for turn. He plays Sweltering Suns, which in practice only kills the Narcomoebas, and I have lethal for next turn after I crack a fetchland on his second main phase. 1-0
Sideboard: Out 2 Narcomoebas, 1 Conflagrate. In 3 Brutality
Game 2: We both mulligan to 5, he has no plays turn 1 or 2, and I go Looting into Brutality, seeing Sweltering Suns and Anger of the Gods + lands. I take the Anger, and do my regular thing, use fetchlands actively to no expose my creatures to a sweeper too soon, and always able to return them on his turn. He is forced to cycle the Sweltering Suns because I play in a way where it does next to nothing. He goes Summoner's Pact into Primeval Titan, but it is too little to late. I crack a fetch to return 2 Bloodghast and 3 Amalgams, having Despair just to rub it in and make his titan irrelevant. 2-0
Record 1-0
Match 2, vs Jeskai
Game 1: He tries to play a tempo game, with burn to pressure and counterspells to slow me down, especially Cryptic Command to tap my creatures down at beginning of combat. I never cast a spell before attacking, and can Loam + Conflag second main phase, finishing off surprise Spell Quellers as blockers and doming him for the rest. 1-0
Sideboard: Out 2 Narcomoeba. In 2 Gnaw to the Bone.
Game 2: I've not played the match-up before, but I've studied the deck and know they do not play Rest in Peace. They might play Anger, so I keep that in mind and sequence my triggers carefully to avoid a blow out, much like against Titanshift. He misses his third land drop after using cantrips to dig for it, so I return Haunted Dead to up my creature count. Since he is tapped out, I cast Despair and rip all but one card out of his hand. From there it is just a matter of finishing him off. Honestly, this match-up feels really one sided for us, which is great since Jeskai has emerged as the premier T1 control strategy in the format. 2-0
Match 3, vs Hollow One Dredgevine
Game 1: Turn 2 he plays Faithless Looting, discarding 2 Vengevines, then casts an Insolent Neonate, cycles a Street Wraith, casts a Hollow One for free and returns the Vengevines. I do not find anything that can compete, and have to scoop them up.
Sideboard: Out 2 Bloodghast, 1 Ghost Quarter, 1 COnflagrate, 1 Neonate, 1 Driven \\ Despair. In 3 Sultai Charm, 2 Gnaw to the Bone, 1 Vengeful Pharaoh.
Game 2: I mulligan to 4, but have a solid opener. He quickly discards 3 Vengevines and casts a Neonate and a Death's Shadow to return them. My creatures are on blocking duty, while Vengeful Pharaoh chips away at his attackers. He gets me down to 9, but I flashback Gnaw and go back up to 23. I eventually get all his creatures of the board by attacking with Bloodghasts and finishing them with Conflag. He plays Faithless Looting and discards 2 copies of Griselbrand, as well as playing a Tasigur, the Golden Fang. I'm assuming he is setting up Goryo's Vengeance and a turn later, sure enough, there it is. I block the demon with a Narcomoeba, and he goes from 5 to 12. Tasigur dies to Pharaoh. On my turn I attack him back down to 6, find another Narcomoeba and play a Stinkweed Imp. He cycles Street Wraith, going to 11, plays another Goryo's for the second Griselbrand, casts a Neonate, sacrificing it and casts Hollow One to return his 3 Vengevines and goes on a big attack. I block Griselbrand with Narco, one Vengevine with Stinkweed, cast Sultai Charm to destroy the second one and take 4, then kill the third Vengevine with Pharaoh, falling to 7 life. I crack a fetch to return my creatures, and attack him down to 6, then cast loam + conflag to finish him off. Such a grind-fest. 1-1
Game 3: We have 5 minutes left, but he wants to play. He opens of 2 Leyline of the Void and I figure I just have to stall for a few turns and force a draw. He does not have an explosive enough start, I play blockers and we end up drawing. 1-1
Record: 2-1-0
Match 4, vs Abzan
Game 1: He finds a Scavenging Ooze early and exiles Haunted Dead. I have a Confalgrate in hand, so I cast and immediately flashback it to kill the Ooze. From there he has no meaningful interaction and I run him over. 1-0
Sideboard: Out 2 Narcomoeba, 2 Neonate, 1 Thug, 1 Mountain. In 3 Sultai Charm, 2 Lightning Axe, 1 Vengeful Pharaoh.
Game 2: He has Ooze again, and while I dig for an answer he plays beefy creatures and his clock is too fast. 1-1
Game 3: I deal with his ooze same way as game 1 and crush him with a fast clock. 2-1
Record: 3-1-0
Match 5, vs Grixis Death's Shadow
Game 1: I think I only took damage from my own lands this game, just ran him over. 1-0
Sideboard: Out 1 Neonate, 1 Thug, 1 Ghost Quarter. In 2 Axe, 1 Pharaoh
Game 2: I hit really poorly on my dredges and can't get on the board to deal with his threats. 1-1
Game 3: Turns into a pretty long game, and we end up in a state where I'm at 13, he is at 3. I have 2 Narcomoebas, one with summoning sickness, one without, 1 Bloodghast and 2 Amalgams. I have a Bloodghast in my graveyard and a Vengeful Pharaoh, as well as a fetchland in play and land in hand. He has a Gurmag Angler and a Death's Shadow and 2 cards in hand. I think to myself that I'm going to attack, play a land post combat to return the Ghast in my graveyard as well as any of the Amalgams that die in combat. I attack with the Ghast and the Amalgams, forcing him to block both of the Amalgams. I decide to leave the Narcomoebas back to block, just in case he has a removal spell. This line gives me a guaranteed kill next turn and he needs 2 removal spells to kill me on the backswing. He blocks the Amalgams, takes 2 and drops to 1, then casts 2 Fatal Push on my Narcomoebas, giving him a lethal attack. I think I got too focused on using the Ghast in my graveyard to return the Amalgams. I should have played a land before combat to return it and attacked with it, forcing his removal down on my attackers instead of my blockers. 2-1
Record 3-1-1
Match 6, vs unknown
I make top 8 if I win, my opponent has no chance. He suggests to split prizes, I agree and he concedes.
Record 4-1-1
I make top 8 at 8th seed, and get paired against the same Grixis Death's Shadow player I played in game 5. Win-and-in for the Pro Tour.
Game 1: I keep a hand with only a Faithless Looting as enabler. This was probably a mistake against GDS, since one discard spell means I have no action. I figured maybe the flashback could get me there. He plays Thoughtseize turn 1, takes the Looting. Turn 2 he plays Thought Scour and cycles a Street Wraith. Turn 3 he plays 2 Death's Shadow, and Dismembers my Neonate on my turn, giving him a lethal attack on turn 4. 0-1
Sideboard: Out 2 Cathartic, 1 GQ, 1 Loam, 1 Conflag, 1 Narcomoeba. In 3 Sultai Charm, 2 Lightning Axe, 1 Pharaoh.
Game 2: I open with Looting and find a Sultai Charm, putting some dredgers into my yard. He plays fetch into shock, then Thoughtseize, taking my Charm, then cycles a Street Wraith. I dredge on my turn, finding nothing, and cast Loam to get it in my yard. His turn 2 he plays fetch into shock and casts Death's Shadow at 10 life. I untap, dredge, find nothing and cast a Stinkweed Imp. He Dismembers it, going to 6. He untaps, plays fetch into shock, going to 3, making his Shadow a 10/10, attacks and plays Temur Battle Rage and even has Stubborn Denial as backup. I don't think his hand and draws could have been better if he stacked his deck. Nothing I can do. 0-2
So close to making it! Still a good finish, have to tell myself that. The deck feels great still, and I don't think the amount of graveyard hate is prohibitive to the deck. Graveyard hate is not good enough against Storm that people pack the amount necessary to fight us effectively.
I think I can confidently say now that Sultai Charm is a good card for us. The mana has never been an issue to cast it, and it is so versatile and can double as an enabler, which allows us to more easily sideboard more cards.
Ross Merriam is playing dredge at the SCG Invite and he is playing Burning Inquiry. I have only seen one so far. After testing I still don't think it is right but I'm not Ross Merriam so lets see.
Edit: Ross Merriam goes to 9-4 so we get to play dredge for another week.
Burning Inquiry is not a good card. Its a very much a circle discussion on this guy. It always seems like cool tech, people try it, it blows out some games for them, they think its amazing, then slowly but surely cut all copies due to being insanely inconstant.
Don't run it.
Can the same be said about Goblin Lore? I’ve seen a couple successful lists play two copies of Tormenting Voice, was curious if Lore could be better, or if it’s as bad as Inquiry.
I was playing Dredge since the beggening of its existence in Modern. I remember times when everybody was playing 4 Burning Inquires and how quickly it was cut from maindecks. But after lists with 2 Inquires made some success on last tournaments on MTGO I wanted to try it once again. I counted it as extra looting effect (right now I'm playing 4 Neonates 4 Reunions 4 Lootings), good when you draw only one but bad in multiples. Natural consequence was to avoid drawing more then one so I put only 1 to maindeck. And so far I love it! It's like extra punch on turn 2-3 when combined with another looting effect. After you play second land random discard is not so scary and extra 10-15 cards milled make difference. Also I often keep it after side becouse it's often correct to side out weaker effects - Reunion vs countermagic and tax effects or Neonate when raw power matters more.
Is there a reason Dredge doesn't use Chromatic Star, Chromatic Sphere, Street Wraith, or Edge of Autumn? I'm sure it's been thoroughly tested. Is it simply that the Neonate and Looting are just better turn 1 plays because they discard and draw? Is it that your hand is somewhat limited because you want to dredge over draw? "Free" Dredge seems like an awful thing to pass up, especially if you can put 10 or 15 cards into your yard on turn 1 with a nut hand... Neonate, a dredger, a wraith, and an edge of autumn is a really fast start. And Cycling is an instant speed ability.
Is there a reason Dredge doesn't use Chromatic Star, Chromatic Sphere, Street Wraith, or Edge of Autumn? I'm sure it's been thoroughly tested. Is it simply that the Neonate and Looting are just better turn 1 plays because they discard and draw? Is it that your hand is somewhat limited because you want to dredge over draw? "Free" Dredge seems like an awful thing to pass up, especially if you can put 10 or 15 cards into your yard on turn 1 with a nut hand... Neonate, a dredger, a wraith, and an edge of autumn is a really fast start. And Cycling is an instant speed ability.
Both Neonate and Looting is so much better than all of those because it lets us discard also. Of course the flashback on the looting is extremely relevant also. The reason legacy dredge plays the street wraith is it can dredge + be removed for ichorid.
Hey Sodek - been a while, think i was here with you at the beginning!
I agree that Burning Inquiry is a "after you looted already" type of card. Terrible at getting you started, nuts once your already going for it.
So I dont think you want too many, 2 at the very max. Im struggling to evaluate it as more than a "winmore" card. Are you already pretty happy if you've got a discard outlet and a dredger? Well... usually. But when Inquiry is good, it is bonkers. Hard to make a decision on it, but people are having success with it.
I realise this topic is as old as time itself but... manabases!?! First question(s):
1. Do Bojuka Bog or Ghost Quarter warrant any consideration anywhere in the 75?
2. 19 or 20?
3. Fetches or gold or a mix?!
I am leaning towards a few fetches and a few gemstones, with perhaps a ghost quarter as my 20th land. What are people's thoughts on that overall?
Has anyone seen Emma Handys article on SCG today? She has put a forest in and praised it, since it helps if people go ghost quarter crazy (targetting cards like Copperline). Any thouhgts?!
I have tried a Ghost Quarter in the main and I liked it. I played it in place of a second dakmor salvage but I took out the ghost quarter for it again. I can pretty confidently say that with the current cards we play right now I would never play a forest for a third basic land. I would much rather just play another mountain if a gun is to my head. I also don't see the point in 61 cards when you can very easily just take out a life from the loam or a burning inquiry.
Seen it but the deck did not really have anything new or spicy going on.
No, but some things can be picked up by Dredge (along with Living End) making top 8:
1: Dredge making top 8 means the meta is in the right spot for the deck to be successful.
2: Sadly, that also means Dredge could be back on the radar, and people may start packing more graveyard hate in their sideboards again.
Hey Sodek - been a while, think i was here with you at the beginning!
I agree that Burning Inquiry is a "after you looted already" type of card. Terrible at getting you started, nuts once your already going for it.
So I dont think you want too many, 2 at the very max. Im struggling to evaluate it as more than a "winmore" card. Are you already pretty happy if you've got a discard outlet and a dredger? Well... usually. But when Inquiry is good, it is bonkers. Hard to make a decision on it, but people are having success with it.
I realise this topic is as old as time itself but... manabases!?! First question(s):
1. Do Bojuka Bog or Ghost Quarter warrant any consideration anywhere in the 75?
2. 19 or 20?
3. Fetches or gold or a mix?!
I am leaning towards a few fetches and a few gemstones, with perhaps a ghost quarter as my 20th land. What are people's thoughts on that overall?
Has anyone seen Emma Handys article on SCG today? She has put a forest in and praised it, since it helps if people go ghost quarter crazy (targetting cards like Copperline). Any thouhgts?!
1. Bog might be worth including if that is how you would like to fight the mirror. I don't think it is particularly effective at fighting something like Snapcaster Mage decks since that is not the axis we want to fight them on. Bog can also be very slow, in that we have to find it by Dredging first and then Loam it back.
Given the results of this past weekend, I think Ghost Quarter is a very reasonable main deck card. I prefer it as the 21st land since it can make mulligan decisions very awkward but its utility is definitely worth it in spots as it comes in handy against bad matchups like Titanshift and Tron.
2. I prefer 20/21 lands. I think how many lands you play is a function of how the rest of your deck is constructed. If you're on a bunch of Burning Inquiries I can see the 18 or 19 land builds people have had success with. I prefer a slightly greater land count since it's very easy to sideboard one out.
3. This feels very meta dependant to me, if Anger is pervasive in the format (I think we might see an uptick in it) then I prefer fetches. I've been getting games in with the Gold builds and have been very impressed. Dredge just wants to hit its first 4 lands drop, all ideally as untapped sources and this helps your deck maintain its velocity, which is why I prefer a slightly higher land count since I am less likely to have to take T2 or T3 off to cast Loam to ensure I hit my land drops.
I think basic Forest is very reasonable, it is definitely the worst land in the deck and you never want to see it in your opening hand for similar reasons to GQ, but it has applications. In the matches I have played I've never wanted it but there are matches where your opponent might try turning off your Loam + Conflagrate engine through Blood Moon or Strip Mining you a bunch of times and then having access to Forest is fantastic.
I think Dredge is great because I don't think that there is necessarily a correct way to build the deck in a vacuum, a lot of the deckbuilding decisions you make are affected by the decks you expect to play against and these can change from tournament to tournament, paper vs online etc
I'm on my phone, so I can't really post a decklist, but I finished 3rd in a 8-man modern tournament at my LGS (my first with the deck) with a list very similar to Zen Takahasi's from months ago. I only lost to RG Ponza, which felt completely winnable, but my dredges were terribly unlucky, hitting one single free creature in 30 cards two games in a row. I made one play mistake that cost me a game by not bringing back Haunted Dead on turn 3 with a Prized Amalgam in favor of a Cathartic Reunion in an effort to hit a 3rd land. I whiffed and lost my only fetchable black source on my opponent's subsequent turn. Just before the tournament fired, I had traded for my second Blackcleave Cliffs, replacing the second Blood Crypt I had been running instead...
Humans and Eldrazi Tron felt like easy match ups. I played a control game against the former and aggro against the latter. Conflagrate was the all-star in both match-ups, helping me win through the Thalia trifecta in one game and Turn 3 Karn in another (after Surgical Extractions nabbed Bloodghast and Stinkweed Imp... Not sure why a Tron player felt like running Surgical Extractions).
Yeah, that mainboard Darkblast should be the 4th Life from the Loam, it's a budget replacement that I'll change in the future if I need, but I really wanted to play the deck right now. Same for City of Brass, which should be another land, but I guess it's ok for the moment.
My questions:
1) I can't afford Thoughtseize and CB atm, so I was thinking about another discard spell (that I own) and use it until I buy them: is it better Duress or Inquisition of Kozilek. I understand that the job of Thoughtseize is to discard hate such as RiP, Cage, Anafenza... so I thought it would be better to run Inquisition since almost all playable cards are cmc3 or less. But I'm scared of those Leyline of the Voids, that's why I'm thinking about Duress insted of IoK. Also, I would add another copy of Darkblast.
2) What would you buy first? Thoughtseize or Collective Brutality?
3) The 3rd Mountain should be another land: Steam Vents, another Blood Crypt or Sheltered Thicket?
4) Isn't there anything better than Bojuka Bog for GY hate? I know that Leyline of the Void is powerful, but it would need 3 slots of the sideboard and I think that's a lot.
5) The last one: I don't have any Abrupt Decay, and I'm doubtful about it since a lot of people say that Maelstrom Pulse is better for this deck's SB. It's also more expensive, so it is worth it?
Yeah, that mainboard Darkblast should be the 4th Life from the Loam, it's a budget replacement that I'll change in the future if I need, but I really wanted to play the deck right now. Same for City of Brass, which should be another land, but I guess it's ok for the moment.
My questions:
1) I can't afford Thoughtseize and CB atm, so I was thinking about another discard spell (that I own) and use it until I buy them: is it better Duress or Inquisition of Kozilek. I understand that the job of Thoughtseize is to discard hate such as RiP, Cage, Anafenza... so I thought it would be better to run Inquisition since almost all playable cards are cmc3 or less. But I'm scared of those Leyline of the Voids, that's why I'm thinking about Duress insted of IoK. Also, I would add another copy of Darkblast.
2) What would you buy first? Thoughtseize or Collective Brutality?
3) The 3rd Mountain should be another land: Steam Vents, another Blood Crypt or Sheltered Thicket?
4) Isn't there anything better than Bojuka Bog for GY hate? I know that Leyline of the Void is powerful, but it would need 3 slots of the sideboard and I think that's a lot.
5) The last one: I don't have any Abrupt Decay, and I'm doubtful about it since a lot of people say that Maelstrom Pulse is better for this deck's SB. It's also more expensive, so it is worth it?
Thank you and sorry for my english.
I play 1 darkblast instead of the 3rd loam as well. If you have an aggro meta then it is the correct choice I believe.
1. I would go with duress.
2. Collective Brutality. These are sided in very often vs anything we want to have better value per card (midrange)
3. I love steam vents in the deck. With that you can also side 2 sultai charm too.
4. I don't play gy hate in my side. Bog is alright because you can loam it back.
5. I would just replace your abrupt decay and 1 Nature's claim with 2 sultai charm once you get a steam vents.
1. Meta dependent. If you see a lot of abzan or humans or other primarily creature decks go with IOK. otherwise duress.
2. I often don't even run Collective Brutality in the side. This is a playsyyle choice. Because of my meta I would pit a ghost quarter, bojuka bog and additional land destruction in there.
3. Personally I would add another fetch land. Steam vents if you want more blue out of the board for spme reason.
4. Again a meta call. Bog is good because we can mill it and get it back with loam. If you're in a gy heavy meta maybe 3x or 4x void is better.
5. Playstyle. Would you rather spend 3 mana on an answer with finality, or 2 mana on a more short term one? Would you rather just run nature's claim because of what you see in your meta.
What I really recommend is start with your ' price is no object ' sideboard. Write down each deck that you typically see in your local meta.
Then go through each card on the list for each deck that is there. Put it down in a spreadsheet with cards down the side and decks across the top.
Is the card good in this matchup? What would you take out for it? How does that affect your curve? What cards in your main deck are bad in this match up?
Then decide if that card is good or bad for the match up. Make a note of it. A simple check mark is fine for a first pass.
If you have any cards without check marks, replace them with something else.
About grave hate in sideboard - if you are playing any that should be Leyline. Ideally you will play the game drawing an opening hand + 1-2 cards, then u wil dredge. If you relay a lot on opening hand u should play the most powerfull effect. I was playing 4 leylines or 0 for a long time but I realized that numbers should be correlated to metagame. If u for example predict normal metagame u shouldn'y play more than 2 Leylines sideaboard. Drawing exactly 1 Leyline is great but more of them can be problematic. If u draw it post side vs mirror or storm - u are great dredge player! If not u can play your game or mulligan and still look for broken opening or Leyline. Even 1 Leyline in sideabord is good - that only means that u don't expect a lot of graveyard stategies. And playing 1 Leyline over 1 Bojuka Bog or 1 Nihil spellbomb will almost always be better.
If you want to play any grave hate - play Leyline.
I ended up losing to 5C Death's Shadow (both games have been lost due to Temur Battle Rage), a bye, than beating Burn 2-1 and beating Junk Midrange 2-1.
Totally agree. Tried it when the GGT was still in the format and was too ustable. I runed today a last chance and well, loosed in the semis to Storm...again...
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Narcomoeba
4 Bloodghast
4 Prized Amalgam
1 Haunted Dead
Spells:
4 Faithless Looting
4 Cathartic Reunion
3 Life From the Loam
3 Conflagrate
1 Driven // Despair
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Stomping Ground
2 Blood Crypt
2 Mountain
2 Copperline Gorge
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Dakmor Salvage
1 Steam Vents
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Sultai Charm
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Lightning Axe
2 Darkblast
2 Gnaw to the Bone
3 Collective Brutality
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
Match 1, vs Titanshift
Game 1: He leads on Prismatic Omen, which is pretty much a dead giveaway of what he is doing. I play the game carfully to avoid a blowout from Anger of the Gods, and pressure him with 2 Narcomoebas and 2 Bloodghasts, while keeping one Ghast and 3 Amalgams in my graveyard, choosing not to return the Ghast after playing a fetchland for turn. He plays Sweltering Suns, which in practice only kills the Narcomoebas, and I have lethal for next turn after I crack a fetchland on his second main phase. 1-0
Sideboard: Out 2 Narcomoebas, 1 Conflagrate. In 3 Brutality
Game 2: We both mulligan to 5, he has no plays turn 1 or 2, and I go Looting into Brutality, seeing Sweltering Suns and Anger of the Gods + lands. I take the Anger, and do my regular thing, use fetchlands actively to no expose my creatures to a sweeper too soon, and always able to return them on his turn. He is forced to cycle the Sweltering Suns because I play in a way where it does next to nothing. He goes Summoner's Pact into Primeval Titan, but it is too little to late. I crack a fetch to return 2 Bloodghast and 3 Amalgams, having Despair just to rub it in and make his titan irrelevant. 2-0
Record 1-0
Match 2, vs Jeskai
Game 1: He tries to play a tempo game, with burn to pressure and counterspells to slow me down, especially Cryptic Command to tap my creatures down at beginning of combat. I never cast a spell before attacking, and can Loam + Conflag second main phase, finishing off surprise Spell Quellers as blockers and doming him for the rest. 1-0
Sideboard: Out 2 Narcomoeba. In 2 Gnaw to the Bone.
Game 2: I've not played the match-up before, but I've studied the deck and know they do not play Rest in Peace. They might play Anger, so I keep that in mind and sequence my triggers carefully to avoid a blow out, much like against Titanshift. He misses his third land drop after using cantrips to dig for it, so I return Haunted Dead to up my creature count. Since he is tapped out, I cast Despair and rip all but one card out of his hand. From there it is just a matter of finishing him off. Honestly, this match-up feels really one sided for us, which is great since Jeskai has emerged as the premier T1 control strategy in the format. 2-0
Match 3, vs Hollow One Dredgevine
Game 1: Turn 2 he plays Faithless Looting, discarding 2 Vengevines, then casts an Insolent Neonate, cycles a Street Wraith, casts a Hollow One for free and returns the Vengevines. I do not find anything that can compete, and have to scoop them up.
Sideboard: Out 2 Bloodghast, 1 Ghost Quarter, 1 COnflagrate, 1 Neonate, 1 Driven \\ Despair. In 3 Sultai Charm, 2 Gnaw to the Bone, 1 Vengeful Pharaoh.
Game 2: I mulligan to 4, but have a solid opener. He quickly discards 3 Vengevines and casts a Neonate and a Death's Shadow to return them. My creatures are on blocking duty, while Vengeful Pharaoh chips away at his attackers. He gets me down to 9, but I flashback Gnaw and go back up to 23. I eventually get all his creatures of the board by attacking with Bloodghasts and finishing them with Conflag. He plays Faithless Looting and discards 2 copies of Griselbrand, as well as playing a Tasigur, the Golden Fang. I'm assuming he is setting up Goryo's Vengeance and a turn later, sure enough, there it is. I block the demon with a Narcomoeba, and he goes from 5 to 12. Tasigur dies to Pharaoh. On my turn I attack him back down to 6, find another Narcomoeba and play a Stinkweed Imp. He cycles Street Wraith, going to 11, plays another Goryo's for the second Griselbrand, casts a Neonate, sacrificing it and casts Hollow One to return his 3 Vengevines and goes on a big attack. I block Griselbrand with Narco, one Vengevine with Stinkweed, cast Sultai Charm to destroy the second one and take 4, then kill the third Vengevine with Pharaoh, falling to 7 life. I crack a fetch to return my creatures, and attack him down to 6, then cast loam + conflag to finish him off. Such a grind-fest. 1-1
Game 3: We have 5 minutes left, but he wants to play. He opens of 2 Leyline of the Void and I figure I just have to stall for a few turns and force a draw. He does not have an explosive enough start, I play blockers and we end up drawing. 1-1
Record: 2-1-0
Match 4, vs Abzan
Game 1: He finds a Scavenging Ooze early and exiles Haunted Dead. I have a Confalgrate in hand, so I cast and immediately flashback it to kill the Ooze. From there he has no meaningful interaction and I run him over. 1-0
Sideboard: Out 2 Narcomoeba, 2 Neonate, 1 Thug, 1 Mountain. In 3 Sultai Charm, 2 Lightning Axe, 1 Vengeful Pharaoh.
Game 2: He has Ooze again, and while I dig for an answer he plays beefy creatures and his clock is too fast. 1-1
Game 3: I deal with his ooze same way as game 1 and crush him with a fast clock. 2-1
Record: 3-1-0
Match 5, vs Grixis Death's Shadow
Game 1: I think I only took damage from my own lands this game, just ran him over. 1-0
Sideboard: Out 1 Neonate, 1 Thug, 1 Ghost Quarter. In 2 Axe, 1 Pharaoh
Game 2: I hit really poorly on my dredges and can't get on the board to deal with his threats. 1-1
Game 3: Turns into a pretty long game, and we end up in a state where I'm at 13, he is at 3. I have 2 Narcomoebas, one with summoning sickness, one without, 1 Bloodghast and 2 Amalgams. I have a Bloodghast in my graveyard and a Vengeful Pharaoh, as well as a fetchland in play and land in hand. He has a Gurmag Angler and a Death's Shadow and 2 cards in hand. I think to myself that I'm going to attack, play a land post combat to return the Ghast in my graveyard as well as any of the Amalgams that die in combat. I attack with the Ghast and the Amalgams, forcing him to block both of the Amalgams. I decide to leave the Narcomoebas back to block, just in case he has a removal spell. This line gives me a guaranteed kill next turn and he needs 2 removal spells to kill me on the backswing. He blocks the Amalgams, takes 2 and drops to 1, then casts 2 Fatal Push on my Narcomoebas, giving him a lethal attack. I think I got too focused on using the Ghast in my graveyard to return the Amalgams. I should have played a land before combat to return it and attacked with it, forcing his removal down on my attackers instead of my blockers. 2-1
Record 3-1-1
Match 6, vs unknown
I make top 8 if I win, my opponent has no chance. He suggests to split prizes, I agree and he concedes.
Record 4-1-1
I make top 8 at 8th seed, and get paired against the same Grixis Death's Shadow player I played in game 5. Win-and-in for the Pro Tour.
Game 1: I keep a hand with only a Faithless Looting as enabler. This was probably a mistake against GDS, since one discard spell means I have no action. I figured maybe the flashback could get me there. He plays Thoughtseize turn 1, takes the Looting. Turn 2 he plays Thought Scour and cycles a Street Wraith. Turn 3 he plays 2 Death's Shadow, and Dismembers my Neonate on my turn, giving him a lethal attack on turn 4. 0-1
Sideboard: Out 2 Cathartic, 1 GQ, 1 Loam, 1 Conflag, 1 Narcomoeba. In 3 Sultai Charm, 2 Lightning Axe, 1 Pharaoh.
Game 2: I open with Looting and find a Sultai Charm, putting some dredgers into my yard. He plays fetch into shock, then Thoughtseize, taking my Charm, then cycles a Street Wraith. I dredge on my turn, finding nothing, and cast Loam to get it in my yard. His turn 2 he plays fetch into shock and casts Death's Shadow at 10 life. I untap, dredge, find nothing and cast a Stinkweed Imp. He Dismembers it, going to 6. He untaps, plays fetch into shock, going to 3, making his Shadow a 10/10, attacks and plays Temur Battle Rage and even has Stubborn Denial as backup. I don't think his hand and draws could have been better if he stacked his deck. Nothing I can do. 0-2
So close to making it! Still a good finish, have to tell myself that. The deck feels great still, and I don't think the amount of graveyard hate is prohibitive to the deck. Graveyard hate is not good enough against Storm that people pack the amount necessary to fight us effectively.
I think I can confidently say now that Sultai Charm is a good card for us. The mana has never been an issue to cast it, and it is so versatile and can double as an enabler, which allows us to more easily sideboard more cards.
Edit: Ross Merriam goes to 9-4 so we get to play dredge for another week.
Can the same be said about Goblin Lore? I’ve seen a couple successful lists play two copies of Tormenting Voice, was curious if Lore could be better, or if it’s as bad as Inquiry.
4 dredge in top 32!
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t[C1]=28&start_date=12/02/2017&end_date=12/03/2017&event_ID=47&city=Roanoke&state=VA&start_num=25&start_num=0&limit=25
No burning inquary
Both Neonate and Looting is so much better than all of those because it lets us discard also. Of course the flashback on the looting is extremely relevant also. The reason legacy dredge plays the street wraith is it can dredge + be removed for ichorid.
I have tried a Ghost Quarter in the main and I liked it. I played it in place of a second dakmor salvage but I took out the ghost quarter for it again. I can pretty confidently say that with the current cards we play right now I would never play a forest for a third basic land. I would much rather just play another mountain if a gun is to my head. I also don't see the point in 61 cards when you can very easily just take out a life from the loam or a burning inquiry.
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
No, but some things can be picked up by Dredge (along with Living End) making top 8:
1: Dredge making top 8 means the meta is in the right spot for the deck to be successful.
2: Sadly, that also means Dredge could be back on the radar, and people may start packing more graveyard hate in their sideboards again.
Good info for adjusting your sideboard
1. Bog might be worth including if that is how you would like to fight the mirror. I don't think it is particularly effective at fighting something like Snapcaster Mage decks since that is not the axis we want to fight them on. Bog can also be very slow, in that we have to find it by Dredging first and then Loam it back.
Given the results of this past weekend, I think Ghost Quarter is a very reasonable main deck card. I prefer it as the 21st land since it can make mulligan decisions very awkward but its utility is definitely worth it in spots as it comes in handy against bad matchups like Titanshift and Tron.
2. I prefer 20/21 lands. I think how many lands you play is a function of how the rest of your deck is constructed. If you're on a bunch of Burning Inquiries I can see the 18 or 19 land builds people have had success with. I prefer a slightly greater land count since it's very easy to sideboard one out.
3. This feels very meta dependant to me, if Anger is pervasive in the format (I think we might see an uptick in it) then I prefer fetches. I've been getting games in with the Gold builds and have been very impressed. Dredge just wants to hit its first 4 lands drop, all ideally as untapped sources and this helps your deck maintain its velocity, which is why I prefer a slightly higher land count since I am less likely to have to take T2 or T3 off to cast Loam to ensure I hit my land drops.
I think basic Forest is very reasonable, it is definitely the worst land in the deck and you never want to see it in your opening hand for similar reasons to GQ, but it has applications. In the matches I have played I've never wanted it but there are matches where your opponent might try turning off your Loam + Conflagrate engine through Blood Moon or Strip Mining you a bunch of times and then having access to Forest is fantastic.
I think Dredge is great because I don't think that there is necessarily a correct way to build the deck in a vacuum, a lot of the deckbuilding decisions you make are affected by the decks you expect to play against and these can change from tournament to tournament, paper vs online etc
Humans and Eldrazi Tron felt like easy match ups. I played a control game against the former and aggro against the latter. Conflagrate was the all-star in both match-ups, helping me win through the Thalia trifecta in one game and Turn 3 Karn in another (after Surgical Extractions nabbed Bloodghast and Stinkweed Imp... Not sure why a Tron player felt like running Surgical Extractions).
This is the list that I'm going to play and I have some questions about it:
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
3 Copperline Gorge
2 Dakmor Salvage
2 City of Brass
3 Mountain
1 Ghost Quarter
Enablers:
4 Faithless Looting
4 Cathartic Reunion
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Life from the Loam
3 Golgari Thug
1 Darkblast
Creatures
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoebas
1 Haunted Dead
Other spells
3 Conflagrate
1 Driven // Despair
2 Lightning Axe
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Nature's Claim
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
Yeah, that mainboard Darkblast should be the 4th Life from the Loam, it's a budget replacement that I'll change in the future if I need, but I really wanted to play the deck right now. Same for City of Brass, which should be another land, but I guess it's ok for the moment.
My questions:
1) I can't afford Thoughtseize and CB atm, so I was thinking about another discard spell (that I own) and use it until I buy them: is it better Duress or Inquisition of Kozilek. I understand that the job of Thoughtseize is to discard hate such as RiP, Cage, Anafenza... so I thought it would be better to run Inquisition since almost all playable cards are cmc3 or less. But I'm scared of those Leyline of the Voids, that's why I'm thinking about Duress insted of IoK. Also, I would add another copy of Darkblast.
2) What would you buy first? Thoughtseize or Collective Brutality?
3) The 3rd Mountain should be another land: Steam Vents, another Blood Crypt or Sheltered Thicket?
4) Isn't there anything better than Bojuka Bog for GY hate? I know that Leyline of the Void is powerful, but it would need 3 slots of the sideboard and I think that's a lot.
5) The last one: I don't have any Abrupt Decay, and I'm doubtful about it since a lot of people say that Maelstrom Pulse is better for this deck's SB. It's also more expensive, so it is worth it?
Thank you and sorry for my english.
I play 1 darkblast instead of the 3rd loam as well. If you have an aggro meta then it is the correct choice I believe.
1. I would go with duress.
2. Collective Brutality. These are sided in very often vs anything we want to have better value per card (midrange)
3. I love steam vents in the deck. With that you can also side 2 sultai charm too.
4. I don't play gy hate in my side. Bog is alright because you can loam it back.
5. I would just replace your abrupt decay and 1 Nature's claim with 2 sultai charm once you get a steam vents.
2. I often don't even run Collective Brutality in the side. This is a playsyyle choice. Because of my meta I would pit a ghost quarter, bojuka bog and additional land destruction in there.
3. Personally I would add another fetch land. Steam vents if you want more blue out of the board for spme reason.
4. Again a meta call. Bog is good because we can mill it and get it back with loam. If you're in a gy heavy meta maybe 3x or 4x void is better.
5. Playstyle. Would you rather spend 3 mana on an answer with finality, or 2 mana on a more short term one? Would you rather just run nature's claim because of what you see in your meta.
What I really recommend is start with your ' price is no object ' sideboard. Write down each deck that you typically see in your local meta.
Then go through each card on the list for each deck that is there. Put it down in a spreadsheet with cards down the side and decks across the top.
Is the card good in this matchup? What would you take out for it? How does that affect your curve? What cards in your main deck are bad in this match up?
Then decide if that card is good or bad for the match up. Make a note of it. A simple check mark is fine for a first pass.
If you have any cards without check marks, replace them with something else.
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
If you want to play any grave hate - play Leyline.
i've tested Dredge yesterday in a 4 round tournament and decided to stick to it for the next couple of month.
This is my list right now:
4 bloodstained mire
2 stomping ground
3 copperline gorge
1 blood crypt
1 dakmor salvage
1 mountain
1 forest
2 blackcleave cliffs
1 steam vents
4 insolent neonate
4 golgari thug
4 stinkweed imp
4 prized amalgam
4 narcomoeba
4 bloodghast
4 cathartic reunion
3 life from the loam
3 conflagrate
1 darkblast
1 driven//despair
2 ancient grudge
2 collective brutality
2 lightning axe
1 gnaw to the bone
1 abrupt decay
1 destructive revelry
1 vengeful pharao
1 ghost quarter
1 golgari charm
1 thoughtseize
1 leyline of the void
1 haunted dead
I ended up losing to 5C Death's Shadow (both games have been lost due to Temur Battle Rage), a bye, than beating Burn 2-1 and beating Junk Midrange 2-1.
I consider another Discard-Outlet Maindeck because the Haunted Dead are part of my sideboard.
Is Haunted Dead, Tormenting Voice or Collective Brutality better for this purpose?
Right now i tend to include Tormenting Voice replacing Driven//Despair to speed things up and be more resilient to Discard-Effects.
Green @ it's best