MTG Salvation

From what I remember (its been a while since Ive been up to date) Ghost Quarter plus loam really is the only hate we have access to.

It shouldnt... i suppose it could. The legacy version still exists without top but runs 11 of the GOOD cantrips in order to exist.

Even if it does, We just play around it like anger. Its going to be hard for them to instant speed terminus us like in legacy.

But yes. Terminus and miracles is the literal reason I quit legacy. Control should lose to aggro, and that card breaks that.

Managed to Day GP 2 Toronto with a little different version of dredge.

Like many of you, I got frustrated by some of the inconsistencies, especially how unreliable neonate has become after the GGT ban.

So I decided to play Time Scour. I’ve top 4 a US WMCQ in the past with tome scour, before reunion was printed. I posted a report explaining how it helps reduce mulligan variance (you don’t need a dredger in hand).

The cost is that you have to have blue early, and I couldn’t make the fetch manabase work anymore. So we’re playing just fastlands and all rainbow lands. Still manage to beat all anger and cryptic decks, so maybe that’s not too costly.

Here is the list for reference, there are some flex slots and I wanted to try a few things for the GP so it’s not set in stone:

Modern blue dredge

4 bloodghast
4 narcomeaba
4 prized amalgam

4 golgari thug
4 stinkweed imp
3 life from the loam
1 darkblast

4 faithless lootings
4 tome scour
4 cathartic reunion
1 isolent neonate
1 shriekhorn

2 conflagrate
1 rally the peasants

1 dakmore salvage
3 spirebuff canal
2 copperline gorge
1 mountain
4 city of brass
4 gemstone mine
4 mana confluence

Sideboard

4 ancient grudge
4 lightning axe
2 darkblast
2 failure // comply
1 gnaw to the bone
1 scrapheap scrounger
1 haunted dead

Started day 0-2 after some bad draws and a blood moon + R.I.P. lock vs affinity. Ended the day 6-2, finished 9-6 overall.

I can post more details about matchups and deck construction philosophy if people are interested.

This version plays a bit differently, so I encourage anyone looking for a alternative to the traditional jund loam version to try it. It’s more explosive and consistent on turns 1-2 but less consistent for turns 3-4. Depending on the meta, it can be a better choice but it’s not strictly better I’d say. Depends on what you’re looking for.

Thanks for reading this threads is great!

I meannnnn ill take any dredge info ever. But focus on day 2 first! Good luck!

Quote from dinausorus »

Managed to Day GP 2 Toronto with a little different version of dredge.

Like many of you, I got frustrated by some of the inconsistencies, especially how unreliable neonate has become after the GGT ban.

So I decided to play Time Scour. I’ve top 4 a US WMCQ in the past with tome scour, before reunion was printed. I posted a report explaining how it helps reduce mulligan variance (you don’t need a dredger in hand).

The cost is that you have to have blue early, and I couldn’t make the fetch manabase work anymore. So we’re playing just fastlands and all rainbow lands. Still manage to beat all anger and cryptic decks, so maybe that’s not too costly.

Here is the list for reference, there are some flex slots and I wanted to try a few things for the GP so it’s not set in stone:

Modern blue dredge

4 bloodghast
4 narcomeaba
4 prized amalgam

4 golgari thug
4 stinkweed imp
3 life from the loam
1 darkblast

4 faithless lootings
4 tome scour
4 cathartic reunion
1 isolent neonate
1 shriekhorn

2 conflagrate
1 rally the peasants

1 dakmore salvage
3 spirebuff canal
2 copperline gorge
1 mountain
4 city of brass
4 gemstone mine
4 mana confluence

Sideboard

4 ancient grudge
4 lightning axe
2 darkblast
2 failure // comply
1 gnaw to the bone
1 scrapheap scrounger
1 haunted dead

Started day 0-2 after some bad draws and a blood moon + R.I.P. lock vs affinity. Ended the day 6-2, finished 9-6 overall.

I can post more details about matchups and deck construction philosophy if people are interested.

This version plays a bit differently, so I encourage anyone looking for a alternative to the traditional jund loam version to try it. It’s more explosive and consistent on turns 1-2 but less consistent for turns 3-4. Depending on the meta, it can be a better choice but it’s not strictly better I’d say. Depends on what you’re looking for.

Thanks for reading this threads is great!

I mean, isn't there an argument to just run Shriekhorn? It puts 4 in your gy before your first "draw" step and an additional 2 anytime you like for 1 colorless Mana.

Yeah I love new ideas with dredge but I would rather use Shriekhorn than change the whole mana base. I play the rainbow mana base but I do not want to play any Spirebluff Canals.

Is anyone else kind of annoyed that BBE and JTMS can be unbanned but GGT can't? I feel like it would bring us up to speed and help the rock/paper/scissors dynamic. Yes we do beat control but I wouldn't say it is much better than 55/45, also brainstorm lets them dig deep for gy hate. BBE isn't as big of a deal I feel, we can already out grind decks, BBE into scooze which will be annoying but most of the time they will hit single target removal or lotv who isn't a problem already.

Also I have been a huge advocate for Driven // Despair but I think that now Scourge Devil is just infinitely better than it and Rally the Peasants because we want to be more aggro and wide.

Played on GP Lyon, ended 11-4.
My match ups:
Bye
Bye
3 Traverse Shadow 2-0
4 Traverse Shadow 2-0
5 BR Hollow One 2-0
6 Soulflayer Suprise 2-1
7 Gx Tron 2-0
8 Counters Company 2-0
9 Grixis Shadow 2-1
10 BR Hollow One 1-2
11 Burn 2@0
12 Jeskai Control 2-0
13 Jeskai Tempo 1-2
14 Jeskai control 2-0
15 Humany 2-0

I'll write small report when I got home. Overall event was good but I'm sad that I haven't made cash :'(

Hello, I'm back home

I played Dredge on GP Lyon, made 6-1 on Friday and 11-4 on Grand Prix.

My list:
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Golgari Thug
3 Insolent Neonate
4 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoeba
4 Prized Amalgam
1 Scourge Devil

4 Cathartic Reunion
4 Faithless Looting
3 Conflagrate
2 Darkblast
1 Lightning Axe
4 Life from the Loam

4 Copperline Gorge
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 City of Brass
1 Gemstone Mine
2 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
2 Blood Crypt
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa

SIDEBOARD
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Thoughtseize
3 Collective Brutality
3 Lightning Axe
3 Nature's Claim

About decklist:
1. Decided to play 4 Life from the Loam - I was playing 3 for very long time, but it was great call. Loam is just too important to not play full playset. I cut Golgari Thug, becouse I wanted to have 2 Darkblast main in Affintiy/Humans meta I expected. Today I would play 3 Thugs 1 Darkblast.
2. Scourge Devil was MVP!!! Enabled twice T3 kills, locked many games which I wouldn’t win without it. Must in for me!
3. Sideboard is simple - ignore true grave decks and focus on dealing with opponents’ grave hate. After GP maybe I would like to play 3 Thoughtseizes, but it’s hard to find space

My games
Friday morning I was looking for some tournament to play, wanted to play double up, but “missclicked” and signed up for early bird trial
R1 Grixis Shadow 2-0
R2 Temur Moon 2-0
R3 Burn 2-1 G3 I played around Relic and taxed my opponent for 1 mana for around 3 turns. That helped me build enough resources to overcome soft hate.
R4 Mardu Pyromancer 2-1. In game 2 opponent suprised me with Rakdos Charm and I couldn’t recover in time. Game 3 I played around it and easily won. But I already had 2 byes from ranking so I conceded to my opponent

After Trial I played 3 round regular modern tournament
R1 Grixis Shadow 2-0
R2 RG Valakut 0-2 Both games I had outs to dredge from Imp to win a game, but twice haven’t found anything
R3 Don’t remember what was it but won

Friday showed me, that I’m well prepared for Grand Prix. Had 2 byes, so I could sleep a little bit more
My Grand Prix:
R1 Bye
R2 Bye
R3 Traverse Shadow 2-0
In game one my opponent had fast start with 2 Death’s Shadows, but some creatures plus Scourge Devil attacked for lethal.
+2 Lightning Axe +2 Decay
-1 Reunion, -2 Darkblast -1 Fetchland
Didn’t side in all 4 Axes becouse somethimes their creatures are already bigger than X/5.
Game 2 was kind of boring - my opponent missed second landdrop, which gave me time to build good board to attack my opponent through 1 blocker.
R4 Traverse Shadow 2-0
Game 1 easy win, sideboard the same as R3.
Game 2 I mulled to 5, kept hand with 1 land, 2 Neonates, Bloodghast and Amalgam, from neonates drew second Bloodghast and land. Natural draw gave me Lightnitng Axe, which killed Death’s Shadow. I killed my opponent with regular Dredge beats, without using dredge mechanic at all.
R5 BR Hollow One 2-0
Game 1 won dice roll, on turn 2 had 12 power on turn 2. My opponent had 2 Hollow One, Adept and Bloodghast on turn 2, but I attacked first and with Conflagrate backup + Scourge Devil on turn 4 I won damage race.
+3 Lightning Axe +3 Nature’s Claim
- 3 Neonates, -2 Darkblast -1 Dakmor Salvage
Game 2 my opponent didn’t have Leyline but laed with T1 and T2 Flameblade Adepts. I was lucky and dredged Narcomoeba. Hardcasted Golgari Thug and started to double block his guys and udes Thug’s Ability to put Narcomoeba on top of library to make sure I will never run out of blockers. Eventually won with my DCAM (Dredge card advantage machine ).
R6 Soulflayer Suprise 1-2
Game 1 had turn 3 kill with Scourge Devil. My opponent showed me Lotleth Troll and Zethalpa oO After thinking a little bit I asked judge for Soulflayer wording. I was somewhat happy when my opponent actually played it
+2 Thoughtseize +2 Lightning Axe
-2 Darkblast, -1 Dakmor, -1 Neonate
Game 2 played early Thoughtseize to discard Soulflayer but opponent timely topdecked another one to make 4/4 with all abilities in a world. Can’t be killed, can’t race 4/4 double strike lifelinker
Game 3 after mull to 5 I had slow start and my opponent had time to finally assemble Soulflayer again.
R7 Tron 0-2
Game 1 I was on a draw, my skilled opponent played Wurmcoil on turn 3, Relic on turn 4 and Ugin turn 5. Well played bro
+2 Ancient Grudge +2 Thoughtseize +1 Nature’s Claim
-2 Darkblast -1 Dakmor, -1 Lightning Axe, -1 Conflagrate
Game 2 he had T1 Cage, I couldn’t find response and lost to Thought Knot Seer beats.
R8 Counters Company 2-0
Game 1 my opponent kept 1 lander, played only 2 Bops. I dredged Conflagrate GG
I didn’t know which one Bop deck is it so I sided in in a safe way.
+3 LIghtning Axe +2 Decay (If I knew he was on Druid combo I would side in Brutality in place of Decay)
Game 2 opponent leads with Bop, I played Darkblast. Turn 2 he played Hierarch, I replayed Darkblast. We tried to race with Finks + Duskwatch, but I overpowered him with DCAM.
R9 Grixis Shadow 2-1
Game 1 was relatively easy thanks to Scourge Devil. One more time GDS played played 2 Shadows, but Devil was too much damage for my opponent to pass up.
+3 LIghtning Axe +2 Decay
-1 Reunion -2 Darkblst -1 Fetchland -1 Neonate
Game 2 my opponent suprised me and played Leyline on turn 0 oO Killed me 5 turns later.
I switched my side plan:
-2 Decay -1 Axe
+3 Nature’s Claim
In game 3 my opponent probably focused too much on Leyline, he mulled to 4, found one and was sad becouse I kept 2 axes, 2 lands, Bloodghast, Neonate and Nature’s Claim Even gave him 4 life soe he couldn’t play early Shadows I drew some cards naturally, found Imp and go off from there.
R 10 BR Hollow One 1-2
Game 1 mulled to 5 and bricked. My opponent also didn’t have anything spectacular and 2 Bloodghast killed me like it was weak draft deck.
Side from R5
Game 2 had strong start + Conflagrate for Hollow One and Adept. Easy game.
Game 3 my opponent found Leyline, I haven’t found any Claims in top 20 cards. Lost to Bloodghast beats.
R 11 Burn 2-0
Game 1 my opponent misspleyd and choosed to not kill me That was strange oO
+3 Brutality +1 Axe
-2 Darkblast - 1 Dakmor -1 Conflagrate
Game 2 had 2 Brutalities in opening, also my opponent choosed to bolt my Amalgams It was strange that I could find noobs on this level.
R 12 Jeskai Control 2-0
Nothing to say here, I destroyed him. It’s so easy match up that I even nearly haven’t sideboarded a lot only +2 Axe -1 Darkblast -1 Reunion
R13 Jeskai Tempo 1-2
I played vs Sunkei Nakamura, easily won game 1but both game 2 and 3 he had Rest in Peace on turn 2 :/ I even sided in +2 Thoughtseize +2 Decay and -1 Reunion -1 Darkblast -1 Dakmor -1 Conflagrate, but I competily bricked, mulled to 4 and got destroyed :/
R 14 Jeskai Control 2-0
Game 1 was as always vs Jeskai - easy. But opponent showed me Ancestral Visions so i knew he was on hard control plan. So I had to adapt with my side plan.
+2 Brutality +2 Thoughtseize
-1 Axe, -1 Reunion, -1 Darkblast -1 Conflagrate.
Game 2 was kind of interesting. Turn 1 played Looting discarding Loam and Amalgam, opponent played Surgical on Amalgam. Whatever, it’s just 3/3 guy But in second turn opponent played second land and said pass. I suspected that he could have Snapcaster. I hope that we won’t Surgical my Loam, but that didn’t happen. I could play Turn 2 Loam to build hand or play another loothing to dredge another Loam. I decided to play around both Logic Knot and Surgical, chosed Looting. Dredged some stuff, discarded Loams. on turn 3 my opponent drew card and passed without landdrop. That ensured me that it was 100% that Snapcaster is waiting to exile Bloodghasts. I dredged more cards, played land and cast Loam. Turn 4 for my opponent was land go. I dredged some cards, found 2 Narcomoebas. Played Looting, found 2 Bloodghasts. Played my fifth land and triggered 2/1 vampiers. My opponent casted Snap + Extraction and tried to exile my guys, but I cracked fetchland which I played on turn 2 in response to make another landfall effect to return Bloodghasts from grave before Surgical resolved. After this play it was quite easy to win. That was probably my best game on Grand Prix.
R 15 Humans 2-0
Game 1 I had good Dredge start, and quick Conflagrate killed enough creatures to break humans critical mass. Easy win.
+3 Axes +2 Decay
-1 Loam, -1 Reunion - 1 Dakmor - 2 Neonate
Game 2 was much more grindy, I chumped a lot with Narcomoebas and Thug. Stinkweed Imp helped to stabilize board. Opponent played Meddling Mage on Conflag but I finally found Darkblast to start killing his Phantasmal Images. Finally won with Imps and DCAM.

I ended 100th and didn’t cash on tie breakers :/ But still it was my best finish on Grand Prix. I lost only to Soulflayer (it is still so funny to me ) and games where hard grave hate was involved. Deck was great, playing it for so long is paying off. 2nd place in MKM series in Prague in 2017, now 11-4 on GP, I’ll still be Dredge guy for at least next months.

I don't think that is true. We are still a beatdown deck and we should try to put as much power on board as quickly as possible. 95% of time it will mean that we should Dredge as many cards as possible becouse more milled cards = more recursive creatures we see and more other options. That 5% are corner cases. I'll show 2 examples:
1. Matchup where we have to be fast and disruptive at once. For example against Lantern or Ad Nauseam Looting + other discard effect + Bloodghast and 2 Amalgams in hand is the best what we can have becouse it's guaranteed 8 power on turn 2 and we have many actual draws to dig for effects to slow opponent down.
2. We already dredged some cards, we still have other dredge cards in grave but also for example 3 Bloodghast or Scourge Devil to activate and opponent is under 10 life. if we only have 2 lands It's usually correct to natural draw becouse in that situation many cards in library are good - most of time all lands, looting effects and Loams.
If we are beatdown with great late game anyway (becouse Dredge is one of the best if not the best card advantage machine in Modern, even in whole history of Magic) we should focus on giving ourselves highest chances to have fast starts. That's why I play Devil not Haunted Dead or Driven//Dispair. That's why only 1 Dakmor Salvage and sideboard it out very often. That's why sideboard interaction is as cheap as possible. All deck is designed to have the highest chances to put a lot of power on early turns.
Of course - there are many matchups and lines where Dregde should act diffrently:
1. as control deck - Affinity, Infect, Humans, Elves and so on.
2. As deck focused to play around hate cards - like Jeskai and UW Control post side.
3. As tempo deck - vs combo decks, Lantern or Burn.
Dredge can adapt to all given situations in Modern, but we should remember that for us our first priority is to put power on battlefield and end games fast. Having other optinos (and there are A LOT of them each game!) is main reason why Dredge is one of the most complicated decks in Modern.

I used to be the police here. You should be fine! Hope the discord works out!

I found that Haunted is best vs Anger decks (and also Ugin I guess), as it is an instant speed way for me to play around it. In my FNM, it's possible I'll face it more bcause of Jace, but my local meta is 50-50 midrange/blue decks vs. players with a dedicated deck. The latter half usually are a race. I've found that you either face one half of the meta or the other depending on if you win or lose the first two rounds. As a result, I decided that I won't play him tonight since I don't know if anyone can even afford to play him, and If I'm better than 1-1 I probably won't even face an Anger deck.

As for Rally/Devil/Despair, I plan on running Rally because it aids the race, is castable in the face of Blood Moon, and the instant speed lets me decide when to pop it if I'm vs a clogged board (which may happen with BBE shenanigans).

The only thing I'm curious about is whether I should try the MD Axe that other people have been doing. While people can't afford Jace, they can BBE. So, it may help kill Goyf and friends.

Can anyone recommend a bridge from below build? I'm looking to spice up my dredge deck and try something new I know we're lacking what make bridge insane in legacy (ichorid, cabal therapy, GGT, dread return) but from what I've read on here it's a winmore card or a do nothing card.

I've seen some neat lists that run X cost creatures (Hangerback Walker, Walking Ballista) plus bridges and vengevines to make a ton of zombies and 4/3 haste dudes. Here's a list: https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/7sfboy/primer_bridgevine_20_update_with_some_spicy_new/

As for running bridge in a more traditional dredge deck, I think without cabal therapy or other easy ways to make zombies it's just too unreliable. When dredge got very popular with the pros back when shadows over innistrad came out most pros that picked up the deck found bridge from below + greater gargadon or viscera seer to be too unreliable and often win more. That was also when the deck had GGT (rip sweet prince).

That makes sense. I saw Tom Ross list he ran with 2 bridge 2 gargadon when GGT was around but didn't know if someone found a deck with it that works consistently. I'll look that one over and give it a shot.

Quote from cispiollohc »

Quote from Lantern »

I used to be the police here. You should be fine! Hope the discord works out!

Lol, thanks man!

Let's talk about dredge: Haunted Dead yes or no? And if yes in which slot? No driven//despair Yes Scourge/rally?

I'm a fan of Haunted Dead, but I'm only able to squeeze one of the aforementioned cards into my build (20 land, 4 loam, 3 thug, 1 Darkblast), and that spot currently belongs to Scourge Devil.

Starting with Driven/Despair, I feel that the card is too narrow and generally only seems to make a difference when I'm already ahead on board and focusing on closing the game out. Rally seems great, and I honestly haven't done much testing with it, but it feels like a Scourge Devil that can't return Amalgams. I like that it makes Narcomoebas 3/1, but it doesn't have much utility compared to Scourge Devil or Haunted Dead.

So, for me to choose between Haunted Dead, I thought about my game 1 match ups. Against the decks that Haunted Dead is better (control, midrange, and creature-based aggro), we are already favored. Scourge Devil, on the other hand is better against combo and burn, where we can really stand to make up some lost game one percentage. It is tragic, however, that we want to hit it early (t3 or 4) against decks like this, but we don't really get to dig as deep that early, while Haunted Dead is great against the match ups mentioned AND you usually have time to dig for it. Tough call for me.


Now, something I've been debating lately: how does everyone feel about 2-3 Stony Silence in the side?

Dredge is life. Dredge is love. Always choose Dredge.

I like Haunted and Scourge, never been a fan of Rally. I prefer Scourge myself, because it usually seems like I don't have mana+cards up on my opponent's turn for the activation. That's just my personal opinion though.

I was an early subscriber for Driven[to]Despair, and I still believe in it. To Egon's point, that is exactly the time that I want to play that card - to lock down position on the board. There really isn't that much in our 75 that does that.

@Blob, while I am personally attached to my Dredge and Burn decks, I personally think Affinity might be the most consistent/resilient deck in the format right now. It isn't affected by the hate cards that overlap other decks, it ignores Blood Moon, is faster than Breach/Scapeshift and can't be taken off colors by Ponza. Yes, the creatures are fragile but if your opponent spends all their time trying to keep them off the board, the odds still favor you overall.

Driven iz a tool against midrange and slow combo. If the meta isnt about that, its not the correct tool.

Yeah Scourge is so much better right now and Driven to Despair is a pet card of mine. Hopefully I will get to play it again in a few months. Why are we in the combo section?