Hey guys. So I used to play Dredge but have been out of the loop for a while. How accurate a list is the one listed on MTGGoldfish's Metagame List? I mean I know it shows recent results, but what if anything is important to note about current iterations of the deck?
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Not a ton. Really the minor tweeks people debate is weither to run more dredge or enablers (darkblast shriekhorn collective brutality) or huanted dead/rally/devil stuffs.
We run 4 life from the loam now and arent above going slow and grindy anymore.
Edit: can you guys read it without me doing anything, or did I mess up somewhere ?
Nope. I can read it. Great job on the guide! It'll be of great help to me when I go to the next FNM. Is there anything you would change about the sideboard however? Some people are running explosives and pulses now.
New to this thread and deck. Thoughts on Smallpox in dredge? You should be able to recover your own lands with Life from the Loam, and discarding and sacrificing creatures is not a big deal for you either.
Seems good vs deaths shadow and eldrazi tron
Downside: manabase would need to change to accomodate double black
New to this thread and deck. Thoughts on Smallpox in dredge? You should be able to recover your own lands with Life from the Loam, and discarding and sacrificing creatures is not a big deal for you either.
Seems good vs deaths shadow and eldrazi tron
Downside: manabase would need to change to accomodate double black
I think its probably fine in an assult loam type of deck, but not this. There was a control version of the deck it could work in too. I linked in the OP thr latter.
The deck prefers to kill creatures with stuff like conflagrate. Pox leads on a grindy game or control, and the deck wants to be aggro, and plan b at worse grind
Yeah the hate is now just changing from time to time from Affinity hate to Dredge hate and vica versa.
Anyway it is not that bad that we did not score high during this GP because the more we can stay out of the range of the banhammer the better.
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Legacy - Reanimator
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
The number one card played in the top 8 was Relic at 13 copies. So the other good thing is that the least effective sideboard card against us seems to be the most popular.
Heres the top 8 deck: Interesting notes are 2 neonates, not 4, 2 thugs not 3, 2 Darkblast and 1 Rally the Peasants, 1 Collective Brutality in the main, heavy on fast lands, light on fetchs.
I assume the darkbasts because affinity was stupid popular this go around. 2 thugs I can understand because darkblast is the enabler here, and I can even get 2 neonates because your turn 1 enabler will be dark blast (I still dont like it). Ive always said that while brutality is a good card, you play it at a loss of speed, so I am glad to see its only a one off, and speaking of speed, 1 rally (Which I still highly recommend) and no haunted dead, presumably because they arent aiming to out grind anyone in this event.
Its always worth noting that in these events lists can tend to be a little weird, and its due to meta gaming between pros. So take lists like these with a grain of salt.
Yeah the hate is now just changing from time to time from Affinity hate to Dredge hate and vica versa.
Anyway it is not that bad that we did not score high during this GP because the more we can stay out of the range of the banhammer the better.
I think this is actually a good point and pretty safe to say after watching data for over a year. It seems like the two are getting a starting to gain a almost symbiotic relationship where one does well because the boards are stocked to beat the other, and it sea saws. Id be intrested in seeing how if this happenes, because its already did affinity to dredge, to affinity, to dredge, now in affinity... One more cycle basically confirms it for me.
This will also be good moving forwards for us, as reasons to justify no bans. We make affinity fairer too this way.
I just started playing Dredge recently, but can someone explain to me the decisions for the choice of lands in that deck? Why would you want more fast lands and fewer fetches? I would think that with Bloodghast, keeping a fetch to use at end of turn is very important. And besides, fast lands end up being slow lands after a few turns. Is it worth it to preserve the life total? I've seen some versions that only run 4 fetches, which seems crazy.
Also, why is that version running City of Brass instead of Gemstone Mine? I thought Gemstone was great because you end up getting it back with Life from the Loam.
Fast lands vs fetch shocks have always been a little debate here. There isnt necessarily a clear cut winner. Like with some decks, like Wild Nacatl decks, you can say fetch-shocks are the best because they enable Nacatl and tribal flames,and youd think with Ghast, we'd all agree that fetches are the best, but the debate still rages on for good reason:
Whats more important to us, lack of life loss so we can race burn and aggro decks or fetches so we can out grind jund and control decks, and survive against anger of the gods?
Personally I like a hybrid approach (around 7 fetches, 6 fast lands) but this deck is VERY bastardized in the fact its meta tuned to beat affinity, burn, company, and have the ability to race. It mostly took out the grinding elements for pre sideboarding against those decks. thats my take on it.
As far as mine goes? Yeah, I'm with you. But mine's big thing (aside from stemming life loss) is recurring ghasts with life loam, and its weakness is if you end up with this as your opener, and you get stuck on 2 lands, it gets REALLY bad fast. Id assume the deck would rather have short games than long. But who knows, could be as simple as the deck was built recently and mines are increasingly hard to get. Its a really old card.
I have room for 1 more piece of gy hate and am thinking of adding 1 Crypt Incursion. Does this card have merit or is it too slow?
Thanks
Incursion is one of the best cards against us, but it is also only really good against us. Trap is the same btw. Its a lot like kor firewalker. Its really good vs the matchup (Burn) but you will never sided it in against anyone else ever. So if you really need a silver bullet vs us, yeah, its a great card. But if you want versitlity, add another extraction.
Ran dredge at vegas and won a grinder with it to get some byes, you'll see my list as the first one in their trial lists.
I went 6-3 day 1 and 2-4 day 2, there was an absurd amount of gy hate and I only faced 2 shadow decks and loss to them both somehow, I audibled to dredge for the shadow matchup and couldn't have been more disappointed, both shadow decks showed me a board with 6+ slots of spellbomb, anger, surgical, and I even had one cast a rav trap against me.
I had a rest in peace resolve against me at least once in 9 of the 15 rounds, majority on day 2.
I share this not for sympathy or "bad beats" stories but more to bring optimism to other dredge players that even when it looks like the whole tournament wanted to crush dredge there was still enough power to sneak 1 into t32.
Couple quick questions. Pretty new to Dredge but I am loving it and getting good results with it. This is the list I have been using and I am loving it so far. Only thing I am sometimes thinking of is changing the Gemstone Mine to a Steam Vents and another Blood Crypt. Is this worth it or shall I just leave it like this?
Anyway some tips on the sideboard are always welcome. The meta I play in is full of everything from Tier 1 to homebrews and you never know what they will show up with.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I've been playing dredge in last months and struggling to keep up on 2nd and 3rd games...
the meta in my city still pretty full of hate for graveyard decks on sideboards and I'm training to a GP that will happen in less than 2 months
I performed some tests against a naya burn with a friend (this is a deck pretty common in my region and I believe meta will be full of it on GP)
I played 5 games against his hand always starting with a rest in peace (with the purpose of training)
and the results brought me the the following thoughts:
even with a great opening hand (dredgers enablers lands etc) it was impossible to win without the sideboard cards on opening hands (digging for Nature's Claim or inquisition o kozilek on draws)
So would be safe to say to never keep a hand without sideboard content on 2nd and 3rd games (with some rare exceptions) ?
in theory a hand with Cathartic Reunion and Faithless Looting makes you dig 7 cards counting with the natural draws of first 2 turns which is a considerable amount for me...
but proceeding that way we spend 2 turns looking for an answer for the hate instead of filling the grave or interacting with opponent which leave us behind the race (something hard for our kind of deck)
I know there are other points to consider to take the decision about keep or muligan on 2nd and 3rd games - like, how many card you see your opponents switching
I would keep a good hand not containing my side cards if I knew the opponent switched only 2 cards but I wouldn't say the same knowing opponent switched 4 or more...
anyway what's your thoughts about the approach for keep/muligan on 2nd and 3rd games ?
Against Burn, I would never remove a Collective Brutality, ever. You can kill a Goblin Guide, drain life, take a burn spell from them, and fill up your graveyard with just one card. It's a 3-for-1 that can be backbreaking for the Burn player.
I think you're over-sideboarding. Replacing 6 cards with cards that don't loot or dredge seems bad. I think 3x Inquisition will do the same thing as 2x Inquisition + 2x Nature's Claim. Usually, if the RIP isn't in their opening hand, you will be able to get your engine going. If you've got your engine going and they topdeck a RIP, it will be very hard to draw into a Nature's Claim anyway because your looters will probably be in the (now-exiled) graveyard. The best sideboard guide for Dredge that I know of is Zen Takahashi's, and he repeats this advice:
"People also often bring it in as an answer to Rest in Peace, which I think is a mistake as the initial trigger on the card is usually too hard to beat anyway. I much rather hope to get lucky and discard it from their hand with Thoughtseize."
he's basically giving up to fight rest in peace after it get on the field - which is basically say GG if it happens
also - Thoughtseize can't do anything about leyline of the void
and he's posture kind of reinforce what I thought on my first post - it's required to have side content in your hand for 2nd and 3rd games... worths
muligan good hands without side for it
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Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
We run 4 life from the loam now and arent above going slow and grindy anymore.
Nope. I can read it. Great job on the guide! It'll be of great help to me when I go to the next FNM. Is there anything you would change about the sideboard however? Some people are running explosives and pulses now.
450 Unpowered Cube Cobra
Seems good vs deaths shadow and eldrazi tron
Downside: manabase would need to change to accomodate double black
I think its probably fine in an assult loam type of deck, but not this. There was a control version of the deck it could work in too. I linked in the OP thr latter.
The deck prefers to kill creatures with stuff like conflagrate. Pox leads on a grindy game or control, and the deck wants to be aggro, and plan b at worse grind
Anyway it is not that bad that we did not score high during this GP because the more we can stay out of the range of the banhammer the better.
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
I assume the darkbasts because affinity was stupid popular this go around. 2 thugs I can understand because darkblast is the enabler here, and I can even get 2 neonates because your turn 1 enabler will be dark blast (I still dont like it). Ive always said that while brutality is a good card, you play it at a loss of speed, so I am glad to see its only a one off, and speaking of speed, 1 rally (Which I still highly recommend) and no haunted dead, presumably because they arent aiming to out grind anyone in this event.
Its always worth noting that in these events lists can tend to be a little weird, and its due to meta gaming between pros. So take lists like these with a grain of salt.
2 Golgari Thug
2 Insolent Neonate
4 Narcomoeba
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Cathartic Reunion
1 Collective Brutality
3 Conflagrate
4 Faithless Looting
4 Life from the Loam
2 Darkblast
1 Rally the Peasants
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 City of Brass
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Collective Brutality
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Golgari Charm
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Lightning Axe
2 Nature's Claim
I think this is actually a good point and pretty safe to say after watching data for over a year. It seems like the two are getting a starting to gain a almost symbiotic relationship where one does well because the boards are stocked to beat the other, and it sea saws. Id be intrested in seeing how if this happenes, because its already did affinity to dredge, to affinity, to dredge, now in affinity... One more cycle basically confirms it for me.
This will also be good moving forwards for us, as reasons to justify no bans. We make affinity fairer too this way.
I just started playing Dredge recently, but can someone explain to me the decisions for the choice of lands in that deck? Why would you want more fast lands and fewer fetches? I would think that with Bloodghast, keeping a fetch to use at end of turn is very important. And besides, fast lands end up being slow lands after a few turns. Is it worth it to preserve the life total? I've seen some versions that only run 4 fetches, which seems crazy.
Also, why is that version running City of Brass instead of Gemstone Mine? I thought Gemstone was great because you end up getting it back with Life from the Loam.
Whats more important to us, lack of life loss so we can race burn and aggro decks or fetches so we can out grind jund and control decks, and survive against anger of the gods?
Personally I like a hybrid approach (around 7 fetches, 6 fast lands) but this deck is VERY bastardized in the fact its meta tuned to beat affinity, burn, company, and have the ability to race. It mostly took out the grinding elements for pre sideboarding against those decks. thats my take on it.
As far as mine goes? Yeah, I'm with you. But mine's big thing (aside from stemming life loss) is recurring ghasts with life loam, and its weakness is if you end up with this as your opener, and you get stuck on 2 lands, it gets REALLY bad fast. Id assume the deck would rather have short games than long. But who knows, could be as simple as the deck was built recently and mines are increasingly hard to get. Its a really old card.
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Rakdos Charm
+ Snaps to flashback
I have room for 1 more piece of gy hate and am thinking of adding 1 Crypt Incursion. Does this card have merit or is it too slow?
Thanks
WMMT5dx: Car - RK Coupe Track - Hakone Outbound
Incursion is one of the best cards against us, but it is also only really good against us. Trap is the same btw. Its a lot like kor firewalker. Its really good vs the matchup (Burn) but you will never sided it in against anyone else ever. So if you really need a silver bullet vs us, yeah, its a great card. But if you want versitlity, add another extraction.
I went 6-3 day 1 and 2-4 day 2, there was an absurd amount of gy hate and I only faced 2 shadow decks and loss to them both somehow, I audibled to dredge for the shadow matchup and couldn't have been more disappointed, both shadow decks showed me a board with 6+ slots of spellbomb, anger, surgical, and I even had one cast a rav trap against me.
I had a rest in peace resolve against me at least once in 9 of the 15 rounds, majority on day 2.
I share this not for sympathy or "bad beats" stories but more to bring optimism to other dredge players that even when it looks like the whole tournament wanted to crush dredge there was still enough power to sneak 1 into t32.
Also the cards I use the most from the sideboard are Thoughtseize and Abrupt Decay and I am thinking of changing the Abrupt Decay and maybe one Ancient Grudge for three Maelstrom Pulse. That card just catches everything.
Anyway some tips on the sideboard are always welcome. The meta I play in is full of everything from Tier 1 to homebrews and you never know what they will show up with.
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Gemstone Mine
2 Dakmor Salvage
2 Mountain
Creatures
4 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoeba
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
1 Scourge Devil
4 Faithless Looting
4 Cathartic Reunion
4 Life from the Loam
3 Conflagrate
1 Darblast
2 Lightning Axe
3 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Collective Brutality
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Vengeful Pharao
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
Apparently Friedman was on Eldrazi Tron for this GP. (Source)
Maybe he was anticipating the influx of graveyard hate and felt Eldrazi Tron was better positioned.
Modern:
Dredge | Restore Balance | Titanshift
My [360][Unpowered][Modern-Frame] Cube
Sort of like having Rishadan Port in Modern except Sorcery speed. Does Dredge really want to use 3 mana like that on a turn to keep 3 lands tapped?
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I've been playing dredge in last months and struggling to keep up on 2nd and 3rd games...
the meta in my city still pretty full of hate for graveyard decks on sideboards and I'm training to a GP that will happen in less than 2 months
I performed some tests against a naya burn with a friend (this is a deck pretty common in my region and I believe meta will be full of it on GP)
I played 5 games against his hand always starting with a rest in peace (with the purpose of training)
and the results brought me the the following thoughts:
even with a great opening hand (dredgers enablers lands etc) it was impossible to win without the sideboard cards on opening hands (digging for Nature's Claim or inquisition o kozilek on draws)
So would be safe to say to never keep a hand without sideboard content on 2nd and 3rd games (with some rare exceptions) ?
What it switched:
in:
2 inquisition of kozilek
2 nature's claim
2 gnaw to the bone
out:
1 bloodghast
1 land (I play with 21)
1 life from the loam
1 Rally the Peasants
1 Collective Brutality
1 Darkblast
in theory a hand with Cathartic Reunion and Faithless Looting makes you dig 7 cards counting with the natural draws of first 2 turns which is a considerable amount for me...
but proceeding that way we spend 2 turns looking for an answer for the hate instead of filling the grave or interacting with opponent which leave us behind the race (something hard for our kind of deck)
I know there are other points to consider to take the decision about keep or muligan on 2nd and 3rd games - like, how many card you see your opponents switching
I would keep a good hand not containing my side cards if I knew the opponent switched only 2 cards but I wouldn't say the same knowing opponent switched 4 or more...
anyway what's your thoughts about the approach for keep/muligan on 2nd and 3rd games ?
A few points:
Thanks for the reply and for sharing Zen's article
I agree with the points described by him except by following:
(referring about abrupt decays) and I believe it can also apply to why he doesn't use nature's claim
"People also often bring it in as an answer to Rest in Peace, which I think is a mistake as the initial trigger on the card is usually too hard to beat anyway. I much rather hope to get lucky and discard it from their hand with Thoughtseize."
he's basically giving up to fight rest in peace after it get on the field - which is basically say GG if it happens
also - Thoughtseize can't do anything about leyline of the void
and he's posture kind of reinforce what I thought on my first post - it's required to have side content in your hand for 2nd and 3rd games... worths
muligan good hands without side for it