Shriekhorn won me a game against Ad Nauseam. After he scries to top with a Temple, I activate horn and mill Ad Nauseam. That bought me a turn. Then he gets spoils, and mills about 10 cards to get the second. He casts Ad Nauseam, and the last shriekhorn activation mills lightning storm. He has to try to win with Lab Man, but he has to block with him or get 10 poison counters. I love this little artifact! I know the second activation there was extremely unlikely, trying to hit one card out of ~30 with two chances, but hitting opponent's after scrying to top is really good.
Shriekhorn won me a game against Ad Nauseam. After he scries to top with a Temple, I activate horn and mill Ad Nauseam. That bought me a turn. Then he gets spoils, and mills about 10 cards to get the second. He casts Ad Nauseam, and the last shriekhorn activation mills lightning storm. He has to try to win with Lab Man, but he has to block with him or get 10 poison counters. I love this little artifact! I know the second activation there was extremely unlikely, trying to hit one card out of ~30 with two chances, but hitting opponent's after scrying to top is really good.
In my area, when Dredge started to get popular again with the release of Prized Amalgam and then followed by Cathartic Reunion, Shriekhorn was used a lot and it did wonders against some decks. I'm quite glad that Shriekhorn did so well Ad Nauseam, not a easy match by any means. I've considered using it and I have no idea to use it in it's place.
Cases have been made for Shriekhorn before. If you isolate uses here and there, it doesn't seem worth it. On its worst moments, it is the combination of Insolent Neonate and Golgari Thug. Occasionally you hit a dredger with the first or second activation, though, and you can use the remaining counters to disrupt the opponent. In that sense, it is sort of like a 1cmc Collective Brutality: enabling plus a chance of disruption. Sometimes it hits a dredger before your draw step after an opponent has activated Relic of Progenitus, or after you have cast Nature's Claim on their Rest in Peace. Sometimes it hits a Bloodghast before your land drop, or an Amalgam in response to a Narcomoeba trigger. The card is really sweet, and I've made tickets equal to double the cost of the deck playing Shriekhorn as a 2-3 of on mtgo the past couple of weeks (there is one of my lists on mtggoldfish where I was practicing for a Unified Modern event where the list is a little off). There are people grinding away on MTGO with and without Shriekhorn (AutumnLily is the player I got the idea from), and some of them are getting more frequent and probably better results than I, but these results are good.
As far as catching an opponent's scry, I mean... opponents mulligan against me more when I am playing Dredge than any other archetype. If I'm able to get my party started and further punish them for keeping a weak hand with some hate, then great.
I've played with shriekhorn before but I don't like it. Messing up someone's scry is nice but that is really a corner case scenario. It's good because it's fast and gives the potential for a quick dredge card in the graveyard. Before it was appealing to replace some tormenting voice with it as it gave you more speed. Now with reunion you don't want to cut any of those. Making it hard to find room for it. Also it's much worse in sideboard games as it doesn't help you dig for answers to hate. Granted it's the first card to get cut anyways.
You do have a good point in regards to Shriekhorn being a plus to an opponents scry but aside from that, can be pretty bad. Definitely something I do not see myself making cuts in my Dredge deck for it.
There is one problem with shriekhorn - every other enabler want to have dredgers in hand while Shriekhorn relays only on topdeck. It's much better to have clear plan - dredger + enabler in hand than to have some cards work that way and some another. Also there are tons of arguments to show that neonate is better:
1. Can attack/block
2. Milled to grave doesn't grow Goyf like Shriekhorn does
3. Works with Gnaw
4. Can draw into hate in post sideboard games.
5. Works nice with Bloodghast/Amalgam duo to put maximum power on board.
6. Can draw on instant speed (relevant vs extraction)
Shriekhorn can only blindflip dredgers/creatures early but in my opinion effect is too random and once again - it doesn't work well with gameplan Reunion and Looting are giving right now.
There is one problem with shriekhorn - every other enabler want to have dredgers in hand .
I agree with most of what you guys are saying, but at the end of the day, we have a fantastic one-mana enabler: Faithless Looting. Neonates and Shriekhorns are comparable, but they both have their disappointments.
The only reason I'm quoting you here is because the section I kept in the quote is another thing that makes Shriekhorn good. If you mulligan a couple of no-landers or hands with heavy Narcomoeba/Prized Amalgams, etc. and hit Neonate + no dredger, it's sad times. If you have Shriekhorn without a dredger, then you have a ~70% chance of hitting a dredger in the first two activations (rather than a 70% chance of drawing a dredger over the course of four turns). Further, Neonate requires a dredger in hand, AND another in the top 3-5 cards, to be good. Otherwise you dredge the card you have in your hand back and then draw on turn 2, which is a big disappointment. Shriekhorn at least lets you pretend you're dredging a Dakmor Salvage, and what's more, if you hit a dredger in those 2, then you can get to dredge on your draw step.
Neonate can suck. Shriekhorn can suck. No one has to get on board with me, really, but the times that Shriekhorn is life-saving outweigh the times that Neonate is life-saving for me.
There is one problem with shriekhorn - every other enabler want to have dredgers in hand while Shriekhorn relays only on topdeck. It's much better to have clear plan - dredger + enabler in hand than to have some cards work that way and some another. Also there are tons of arguments to show that neonate is better:
1. Can attack/block
2. Milled to grave doesn't grow Goyf like Shriekhorn does
3. Works with Gnaw
4. Can draw into hate in post sideboard games.
5. Works nice with Bloodghast/Amalgam duo to put maximum power on board.
6. Can draw on instant speed (relevant vs extraction)
Shriekhorn can only blindflip dredgers/creatures early but in my opinion effect is too random and once again - it doesn't work well with gameplan Reunion and Looting are giving right now.
Shriekhorn is definitely something that is not good in our deck right now. I'm profoundly convinced that Shreikhorn is something that Dredge does not need in our deck.
I'm not as high on brutaility when I cant use all the modes. Against RDW or Mel company it always felt like SUPER DUPER swinging, but against storm when they dont have out electro mancer or scapeshift if feels way more lame. I mean seize does work there, and cheaper, but you cant have a 30 card sideboard (good because we wouldnt be a deck anymore.)
As far as not playing around remand... dude I never play around it. I'm not saying don't, lol. I just am saying I always lunch head first into the remand. Having an imp remanded is better than a conflag though!
Is anyone worried about the recent success of dredge that it could face a possible ban in the future? Wizards have made it clear that it dislikes dredge.
The announcement was clear they have their eyes trained on death's shadow not dredge.
I agree, Death's Shadow decks are definitely on the bullseye for Wizards. I do admit that Dredge is doing quite well in Modern lately and I'm quite happy about that. Been playing it quite a bit lately and I'm pleased that it is still holding strong, even in my local meta with many players running white for Rest in Peace along with Surgical Extraction, Grafdigger's Cage, and Leyline of the Void.
The announcement was clear they have their eyes trained on death's shadow not dredge.
I agree, Death's Shadow decks are definitely on the bullseye for Wizards. I do admit that Dredge is doing quite well in Modern lately and I'm quite happy about that. Been playing it quite a bit lately and I'm pleased that it is still holding strong, even in my local meta with many players running white for Rest in Peace along with Surgical Extraction, Grafdigger's Cage, and Leyline of the Void.
Well we are favored against deaths shadow (but we arent winning modern because we still get shot down by sideboard hate) but what I meant by the announcement, is if you read it they says translated "Deathshadow gives us some issues, so thats on the watch list, other than that we like where modern is, and standard and legacy was taking too much of our attention."
This is the best primer I have ever read on mtgsalvation. Nice work Lantern et al.
You should make a book version of the primer that looks like the Necronomicon Ex-Mortis from the Evil Dead/Army of Darkness movies. I would pay you for something like that. Extra if it's bound in human flesh and inked in human blood.
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This is the best primer I have ever read on mtgsalvation. Nice work Lantern et al.
You should make a book version of the primer that looks like the Necronomicon Ex-Mortis from the Evil Dead/Army of Darkness movies. I would pay you for something like that. Extra if it's bound in human flesh and inked in human blood.
This is the best primer I have ever read on mtgsalvation. Nice work Lantern et al.
You should make a book version of the primer that looks like the Necronomicon Ex-Mortis from the Evil Dead/Army of Darkness movies. I would pay you for something like that. Extra if it's bound in human flesh and inked in human blood.
I was working on that as a deck box actually.
Incredible. Is this something I can find at my local S-Mart? I will have to buy one.
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I know this is going to be a weird question, but is it possible to be too bad to play Dredge?
I've been playing Magic for about a year (first Standard, then Merfolk and Living End). I play Living End (played Merfolk before) but the problem is I punt a lot. I get tired and miss triggers, rush through, etc. I want to buy into Dredge, but I know that the deck has more triggered abilities than almost any other Modern deck, so I'm wondering if I'm just too bad to play.
If anyone has any tips on how they manage all the triggers, that would be great.
I know this is going to be a weird question, but is it possible to be too bad to play Dredge?
I've been playing Magic for about a year (first Standard, then Merfolk and Living End). I play Living End (played Merfolk before) but the problem is I punt a lot. I get tired and miss triggers, rush through, etc. I want to buy into Dredge, but I know that the deck has more triggered abilities than almost any other Modern deck, so I'm wondering if I'm just too bad to play.
If anyone has any tips on how they manage all the triggers, that would be great.
The real trigger you want to remember is the Prized Amalgam trigger. I announce it when a creature enters the battlefield from the graveyard but if it's a particularly busy turn and you dredged during your upkeep which created the amalgam triggers you can easily miss returning the amalgams during the end step, which is not a may ability so it definitely gets upgraded into potentially game losses.
The part that makes Dredge difficult for me to play is that there are several times you have to think hard about the correct line of play and then after all that remember the triggers. Sometimes I use a dice that I place on my library whenever I have something I want to remember to do like place the dice on 6 when I wanted to dredge GGT or 3 for Life from the Loam, and you can do the same thing with a coloured bead that you put on your library when you have an Amalgam coming back and you just have to get into the habit of not passing the turn with a bead on your library.
I know this is going to be a weird question, but is it possible to be too bad to play Dredge?
I've been playing Magic for about a year (first Standard, then Merfolk and Living End). I play Living End (played Merfolk before) but the problem is I punt a lot. I get tired and miss triggers, rush through, etc. I want to buy into Dredge, but I know that the deck has more triggered abilities than almost any other Modern deck, so I'm wondering if I'm just too bad to play.
If anyone has any tips on how they manage all the triggers, that would be great.
You are not too bad to play Dredge, you are just new to the game and have underdeveloped habits. If anything, having to keep track of more triggers in a deck like Dredge will probably train you to be better about triggers with decks where it matters less.
I am also picking up Dredge (in paper, have it online) and expect to be bad with it for a little while. However, this is my starting point:
(1) Rearrange your graveyard to make sure you remember your important triggers. This is perfectly fine in Modern, as opposed to Legacy where you have to keep your graveyard ordered.
(2) Fan your graveyard out so you can see if you have cards that will trigger when x happens/see what dredgers you have in the bin. Check the graveyard any time you have something that might trigger a creature (like a land drop.)
(3) Watch streams of Dredge so you see what triggers when and why.
(4) Play Dredge online using MTGO or Xmage so you see what triggers when and why.
(5) Read the "Mis. Good tips to know" section in this primer. There seems to be a lot of good advice related to this question there. For instance in reference to Prized Amalgam's delayed trigger: "[announce the trigger and] keep [Prized Amalgam] on the side of the grave, or put a dice on it."
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In my area, when Dredge started to get popular again with the release of Prized Amalgam and then followed by Cathartic Reunion, Shriekhorn was used a lot and it did wonders against some decks. I'm quite glad that Shriekhorn did so well Ad Nauseam, not a easy match by any means. I've considered using it and I have no idea to use it in it's place.
Is anyone else using Shriekhorn?
As far as catching an opponent's scry, I mean... opponents mulligan against me more when I am playing Dredge than any other archetype. If I'm able to get my party started and further punish them for keeping a weak hand with some hate, then great.
You do have a good point in regards to Shriekhorn being a plus to an opponents scry but aside from that, can be pretty bad. Definitely something I do not see myself making cuts in my Dredge deck for it.
1. Can attack/block
2. Milled to grave doesn't grow Goyf like Shriekhorn does
3. Works with Gnaw
4. Can draw into hate in post sideboard games.
5. Works nice with Bloodghast/Amalgam duo to put maximum power on board.
6. Can draw on instant speed (relevant vs extraction)
Shriekhorn can only blindflip dredgers/creatures early but in my opinion effect is too random and once again - it doesn't work well with gameplan Reunion and Looting are giving right now.
I agree with most of what you guys are saying, but at the end of the day, we have a fantastic one-mana enabler: Faithless Looting. Neonates and Shriekhorns are comparable, but they both have their disappointments.
The only reason I'm quoting you here is because the section I kept in the quote is another thing that makes Shriekhorn good. If you mulligan a couple of no-landers or hands with heavy Narcomoeba/Prized Amalgams, etc. and hit Neonate + no dredger, it's sad times. If you have Shriekhorn without a dredger, then you have a ~70% chance of hitting a dredger in the first two activations (rather than a 70% chance of drawing a dredger over the course of four turns). Further, Neonate requires a dredger in hand, AND another in the top 3-5 cards, to be good. Otherwise you dredge the card you have in your hand back and then draw on turn 2, which is a big disappointment. Shriekhorn at least lets you pretend you're dredging a Dakmor Salvage, and what's more, if you hit a dredger in those 2, then you can get to dredge on your draw step.
Neonate can suck. Shriekhorn can suck. No one has to get on board with me, really, but the times that Shriekhorn is life-saving outweigh the times that Neonate is life-saving for me.
Shriekhorn is definitely something that is not good in our deck right now. I'm profoundly convinced that Shreikhorn is something that Dredge does not need in our deck.
As far as not playing around remand... dude I never play around it. I'm not saying don't, lol. I just am saying I always lunch head first into the remand. Having an imp remanded is better than a conflag though!
I agree, Death's Shadow decks are definitely on the bullseye for Wizards. I do admit that Dredge is doing quite well in Modern lately and I'm quite happy about that. Been playing it quite a bit lately and I'm pleased that it is still holding strong, even in my local meta with many players running white for Rest in Peace along with Surgical Extraction, Grafdigger's Cage, and Leyline of the Void.
Well we are favored against deaths shadow (but we arent winning modern because we still get shot down by sideboard hate) but what I meant by the announcement, is if you read it they says translated "Deathshadow gives us some issues, so thats on the watch list, other than that we like where modern is, and standard and legacy was taking too much of our attention."
You should make a book version of the primer that looks like the Necronomicon Ex-Mortis from the Evil Dead/Army of Darkness movies. I would pay you for something like that. Extra if it's bound in human flesh and inked in human blood.
Modern: GW Elves; Living End
Pauper: Stompy; RW Tokens
Beer: Miller High Life
I was working on that as a deck box actually.
Incredible. Is this something I can find at my local S-Mart? I will have to buy one.
Modern: GW Elves; Living End
Pauper: Stompy; RW Tokens
Beer: Miller High Life
I've been playing Magic for about a year (first Standard, then Merfolk and Living End). I play Living End (played Merfolk before) but the problem is I punt a lot. I get tired and miss triggers, rush through, etc. I want to buy into Dredge, but I know that the deck has more triggered abilities than almost any other Modern deck, so I'm wondering if I'm just too bad to play.
If anyone has any tips on how they manage all the triggers, that would be great.
The real trigger you want to remember is the Prized Amalgam trigger. I announce it when a creature enters the battlefield from the graveyard but if it's a particularly busy turn and you dredged during your upkeep which created the amalgam triggers you can easily miss returning the amalgams during the end step, which is not a may ability so it definitely gets upgraded into potentially game losses.
The part that makes Dredge difficult for me to play is that there are several times you have to think hard about the correct line of play and then after all that remember the triggers. Sometimes I use a dice that I place on my library whenever I have something I want to remember to do like place the dice on 6 when I wanted to dredge GGT or 3 for Life from the Loam, and you can do the same thing with a coloured bead that you put on your library when you have an Amalgam coming back and you just have to get into the habit of not passing the turn with a bead on your library.
You are not too bad to play Dredge, you are just new to the game and have underdeveloped habits. If anything, having to keep track of more triggers in a deck like Dredge will probably train you to be better about triggers with decks where it matters less.
I am also picking up Dredge (in paper, have it online) and expect to be bad with it for a little while. However, this is my starting point:
(1) Rearrange your graveyard to make sure you remember your important triggers. This is perfectly fine in Modern, as opposed to Legacy where you have to keep your graveyard ordered.
(2) Fan your graveyard out so you can see if you have cards that will trigger when x happens/see what dredgers you have in the bin. Check the graveyard any time you have something that might trigger a creature (like a land drop.)
(3) Watch streams of Dredge so you see what triggers when and why.
(4) Play Dredge online using MTGO or Xmage so you see what triggers when and why.
(5) Read the "Mis. Good tips to know" section in this primer. There seems to be a lot of good advice related to this question there. For instance in reference to Prized Amalgam's delayed trigger: "[announce the trigger and] keep [Prized Amalgam] on the side of the grave, or put a dice on it."
Modern: GW Elves; Living End
Pauper: Stompy; RW Tokens
Beer: Miller High Life