You want 13-14 colourless sources to be sure to have one on turn 2, hence 4 groves, 4 karplussan forest, 4 temple and then a handful of other sources like wolf run and mind stone.
You want 13-14 colourless sources to be sure to have one on turn 2, hence 4 groves, 4 karplussan forest, 4 temple and then a handful of other sources like wolf run and mind stone.
This is probably the go to article most people use for constructing manabases. It's worth a read
EDIT: I guess cavern kind of messes up the math a bit on account of being colourless mostly but not when you want to play through counterspells.
I think your missing the 4 cavern of souls. That gives us 16 colorless sources (18 counting Mind stone and k-run). I know we won't use the pain lands all the time but it seems like it would be nice to ensure green as an out to blood moon.
*edit: a green source so we can cast nature's claim/natural state
Heard about this deck when BBE got unbanned, surprised to see it was making a splash recently and won GP without it. Btw since no one seems to have posted here is the GP top 8 deklists (omg so much tron):
I watched the twitch stream and saw all of Gregorz matches he was featured. Deck doesn't come across like a perfectly constructed work of art like Mardu Pyromancer (IMO), it definately looks Jank even in matches. However, it has a burst to it unlike most midrange in the format. For those asking about Noble Hierarch vs. Talisman of Impulse Hierarch exalt was quite important in numerous cases, often in multiples and making a 7/7 trampler. Also you lose 3rd color possibility when playing Engineered Explosives. I'd stick to hierarch for now. I think Scavenging Ooze vs Relic of Progenitus is a harder choice main deck. Ability to turn goyf into 0/1 and cantrip is quite good, and with the manabases being ran ooze doesn't seem quite as good. Ooze seems more valuable as another early threat and ability to gain life and better disable targeted graveyard cards like Snapcaster.
Manabase both in 5-0 MTGO and GP deck I'm not a huge fan of. The 4x Cavern of Souls especially. Several times in GP matches was put on human just to be able to play hierarch. Commentators even joked if one didn't know better would think playing against 5c humans. I can see keeping 2x caverns for counterspell protection but this doesn't seem good as a playset. It also nonbos with ooze and any colored spell from SB. I'm also not a fan of the Copperline Gorge in the MTGO list as deck wants to be playing 4-5cc spells and this will be awkward to play tapped. On the other hand the playset of Grove of the Burnwillows is perfect as a painless tri-land here which doubles as anti Death's Shadow.
Wanted to also note a similar deck I had watched streamed by Jeff Hoogland (also why was intrigued by R/G enldrzi), a W/G version:
Btw his newest list actually gets the Ancient Stirrings in maindeck as well as Engineered Explosives. Jeff normally plays extra basics to benefit off of paths and minimize hurt from Blood Moon. His manabase is what I'm most interested to compare, he manages to get 13 colorless sources from land + play hierarch + 17 sources of green turn 1. Key card (which I'd play over cavern) is Hashep Oasis which both provides colorless, and green, but also provides a pump for essentially 4 mana for smusher. I'd also look to get to 4 fetches and at least 3 basics in. Using BBE I'd trim the bird and go with 23 lands as MTGO list did also.
I also agree above that I don't think Blood moon is good tech for this deck. I'm assuming the player ran in SB because of idea of getting it off BBE cascade. The 2x Crumble to Dust were very important for Gregorz against Tron, and vitally it can be pulled from Ancient Stirrings as its devoid/colorless.
Dismember is interesting, and unless some weird phyrexian mana ruling it should be free with BBE cascade so if anything it gets better. Btw in one match he did manage to double dismember an ulamog and then attacked through for the win lol.
The Endbringer seemed the worst card in the deck in matches I saw. Often discarded (liliana/karn/thoughtseize), and one time played it just chump blocked. Seems obvious spot to switch for BBE along with the mind stone and forked bolt. I also similarly don't like look of hazoret in the list, that card makes more sense in a ponza shell. With BBE already have 12 main deck creatures with haste.
Am curious to see Gregorz tutorial/breakdown, and hope he discusses BBE. He was asked about BBE/Jace after he won and his thoughts of new meta and he seemed kind of "meh we'll see" .
Heard about this deck when BBE got unbanned, surprised to see it was making a splash recently and won GP without it. Btw since no one seems to have posted here is the GP top 8 deklists (omg so much tron):
I watched the twitch stream and saw all of Gregorz matches he was featured. Deck doesn't come across like a perfectly constructed work of art like Mardu Pyromancer (IMO), it definately looks Jank even in matches. However, it has a burst to it unlike most midrange in the format. For those asking about Noble Hierarch vs. Talisman of Impulse Hierarch exalt was quite important in numerous cases, often in multiples and making a 7/7 trampler. Also you lose 3rd color possibility when playing Engineered Explosives. I'd stick to hierarch for now. I think Scavenging Ooze vs Relic of Progenitus is a harder choice main deck. Ability to turn goyf into 0/1 and cantrip is quite good, and with the manabases being ran ooze doesn't seem quite as good. Ooze seems more valuable as another early threat and ability to gain life and better disable targeted graveyard cards like Snapcaster.
Manabase both in 5-0 MTGO and GP deck I'm not a huge fan of. The 4x Cavern of Souls especially. Several times in GP matches was put on human just to be able to play hierarch. Commentators even joked if one didn't know better would think playing against 5c humans. I can see keeping 2x caverns for counterspell protection but this doesn't seem good as a playset. It also nonbos with ooze and any colored spell from SB. I'm also not a fan of the Copperline Gorge in the MTGO list as deck wants to be playing 4-5cc spells and this will be awkward to play tapped. On the other hand the playset of Grove of the Burnwillows is perfect as a painless tri-land here which doubles as anti Death's Shadow.
Wanted to also note a similar deck I had watched streamed by Jeff Hoogland (also why was intrigued by R/G enldrzi), a W/G version:
Btw his newest list actually gets the Ancient Stirrings in maindeck as well as Engineered Explosives. Jeff normally plays extra basics to benefit off of paths and minimize hurt from Blood Moon. His manabase is what I'm most interested to compare, he manages to get 13 colorless sources from land + play hierarch + 17 sources of green turn 1. Key card (which I'd play over cavern) is Hashep Oasis which both provides colorless, and green, but also provides a pump for essentially 4 mana for smusher. I'd also look to get to 4 fetches and at least 3 basics in. Using BBE I'd trim the bird and go with 23 lands as MTGO list did also.
I also agree above that I don't think Blood moon is good tech for this deck. I'm assuming the player ran in SB because of idea of getting it off BBE cascade. The 2x Crumble to Dust were very important for Gregorz against Tron, and vitally it can be pulled from Ancient Stirrings as its devoid/colorless.
Dismember is interesting, and unless some weird phyrexian mana ruling it should be free with BBE cascade so if anything it gets better. Btw in one match he did manage to double dismember an ulamog and then attacked through for the win lol.
The Endbringer seemed the worst card in the deck in matches I saw. Often discarded (liliana/karn/thoughtseize), and one time played it just chump blocked. Seems obvious spot to switch for BBE along with the mind stone and forked bolt. I also similarly don't like look of hazoret in the list, that card makes more sense in a ponza shell. With BBE already have 12 main deck creatures with haste.
Am curious to see Gregorz tutorial/breakdown, and hope he discusses BBE. He was asked about BBE/Jace after he won and his thoughts of new meta and he seemed kind of "meh we'll see" .
He is a Polish professional MTG player who has a GP win and 4 other top 8s, as well as 12 Pro Tours under his belt not to mention an established testing team. I will have faith in his mana base. You dont just put a random manabase together and get 7 wins at a pro tour followed by a GP win... I would consider it tuned until someone more established says so.
If you read through his article you will gain insight on a lot of his choices but I do believe POST BBE and Jace unban the deck has room for further development with the spells. Specifically, I agree with some of the points you brought up earlier, Endbringer, Ooze, Forked Bolt, dismember, and the mind stone all seem highly flexible. Some cards that can be tested include Relic, Talisman, BBE, MD Engineered Explosives, and others.
Thanks Brulander, wouldn't have realized the writeup already existed. An important missing piece that helped elucidate is where he sees the deck, as a more consistent/aggro variation on eldrazi tron. Helps to also explain the inclusion of the Endbringer. Seeing it that way I can understand why he doesn't think BBE fits, it doesn't take advantage of the eldrazi ramp and at best its decent value (and may be issue to cast). I can still see BBE as a separate variant version more low to ground and playing around edicts and wraths. I also agree with his conclusion that shift to heavier control metagame helps the deck if anything. As number of decks I like playing/building are bad tron matchups if nothing else I see value in having this sleeved up. I'm also not much of a fan of the eldrazi and taxes shell. I think similar to the B/W eldrazi processor shell this is more of a strong metagame deck than one that will consistently put up solid numbers. He even admits how much value opponents not knowing about Eldrazi Obligator and playing right into it did in matches (except bogles lol).
One thing article reminded me is eldrazi tron due to its colorless mana base can't run demonic tutor...I mean Ancient Stirrings . Unlike tron and lantern this deck can also play more toolbox with stirrings esp. in SB which is great flavor as well.
What do you think about Smuggler's Copter in this deck (1-2x copies) ?
It is a Stirrings hit and provides evasion and looting to the deck.
Another card which might be playable here is Tireless Tracker (potentially in the Ooze slot) to provide the some card draw to the deck.
A copy of Sea Gate Wreckage doesn't sound too bad in this deck as well (I play one in all my Eldrazi decks).
As far as the 1x Forked Bolt flex slot what about a copy of Crater's Claws (ferocious is very reasonable here and this can be a finisher in the deck)
or maybe Lash Out (as a Searing Blaze imitation, this deck should be good at clashing) ?
Some more "boring" options can be Flame Slash/Roast.
I wonder why the deck isn't playing Talisman of Impulse (or more Mind Stone) over the mana dorks to be less vulnerable against early removal spells.
Way back I was playing talismans as a way to ramp, but I was also playing sweepers maineck. I never wanted to play dorks because the sweepers would just kill them, but I was always a turn behind on my ramp because of it. Dorks provide you a mana advantage right from the start, allow for a T2 TKS, and can provide you more coloured mana when you have Caverns and temples in hand. Exalted is also really night on a Reality Smasher as it an attack past Anglers. Removing sweepers to the sideboard and playing dorks in the main is clearly the way to go.
With all the bolts and pushes around I don't know if dorks are the more reliable plan which also explains why "Bant Eldrazi" has practically disappeared from the competitive scene.
Having more targets for Stirrings is also good.
I'm just not sure if the color-fixing of Talisman outweighs the cantripping of Mind Stone in this deck.
Maindeck sweepers don't seem like a great idea for the deck anyway, especially with Obligator.
Hey all, I've been dabbling with this deck since it's recent success and ran into an uncertain interaction you might be able to clear up.
Can Eldrazi Temple's second ability (producing 2 mana for eldrazi spells and abilities) be used for Eldrazi Obligator's "kicker" cost? Normally a moot point since you could use Temple to pay the main cost and other lands for the 'kicker' cost, but this has come up a few times with specifically Bloodbraid Elf, with the sequencing lining up that I can leave up 1 Eldrazi Temple but not 2 lands and you'd always like to have outs to pay for Obligator off of cascade.
I'm uncertain since the cost isn't a part of the spell's cost and it isn't a normal activated ability, but a triggered activated ability (might fall under the same umbrella?). I figured someone in this thread's probably run into this interaction by now.
What do you think about Smuggler's Copter in this deck (1-2x copies) ?
It is a Stirrings hit and provides evasion and looting to the deck.
Another card which might be playable here is Tireless Tracker (potentially in the Ooze slot) to provide the some card draw to the deck.
A copy of Sea Gate Wreckage doesn't sound too bad in this deck as well (I play one in all my Eldrazi decks).
As far as the 1x Forked Bolt flex slot what about a copy of Crater's Claws (ferocious is very reasonable here and this can be a finisher in the deck)
or maybe Lash Out (as a Searing Blaze imitation, this deck should be good at clashing) ?
Some more "boring" options can be Flame Slash/Roast.
I don't think copter is very good... With so many live hits on Stirrings I don't see why I would ever want a copter oversmasher, tks, temple, cavern vs blue or other lands to help cast elf.
Tireless tracker is a fine card but you have to remember with matter reshaper and bbe we are already generating automatic advantage directly on the battlefield. Also tracker generates a lot more value in fetch heavy decks and I don't think it's worth it for us to play and more than 2 fetches.
Sea gate Wreckage can fit into that one flex spot where wolf run is... You just have to decide which you like better as our land base is in my opinion very well tuned. I do think at this point it is either correct to run 5 dork 22 land or 4 dork 23 land in which case you would have room for 2 colorless flex lands.
4 cavern
4 Grove
4 karplusan
2 Foothills
1 stomping
1 Forest
1 mountain
4 Temple
1 flex
5th dork or second flex
Side note, Copperline is just bad in this deck.
I think 4 bolt 2 dismember are becoming universally accepted but that 1 forked bolt could be anything... Craters claws could be worth testing but I firmly believe you want this to be a 1 cmc spell. Remember you want to limit the number of cards dead on an empty board state with bbe versions.
I was actually considering Tracker and Copter in the flex slots for a build without BBE (which I'm not convinced about for this deck).
Thicket works much better with the manarocks over the dorks so it is probably a slightly different approach to the deck.
With 4x Talisman I can see some number of Mutavault (or Ghost Quarter) as an option for the deck for some more utility.
With Ancient Stirrings I think that having less than 4x Caverns is ok since you can dig for them if it gets countered it means less counters for the creatures.
I played R/G Eldrazi this past Monday at local Modern event. Deck played sweeter than I thought it would. I did make a few changes to the list that took down GP this past weekend with playing Goyfs maindeck and they did an ok job at putting pressure. I'll be taking them out beccause they just don't work well with the 3 or 4 maindeck Scooze that are trying to do their best to keep graveyards honest. Obligators are just fantastic at taking out the air of opponents that try to catch up or even put up a defense after a turn 2 or 3 TKS. I was stealing Trackers all night.
I personally don't know much BBE adds to the deck itself but I'm willing to try it out. I'm looking at tinkering with the list to make it a little more streamlined.
My list that I'll be playing this week with the changes.
4 Noble Heirarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 TKS
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Obligator
1 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Reality Smasher
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
1 Endbringer
1 Drowner of Hope
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember
1 Talisman of Impulse
Landbase is the same as the original list.
Sideboard can vary week to week depending on local meta. I did use nearly every card in my sideboard except the 1 of Koz Return. I figure it was used primarily to wipe out pesky Spirit Tokens so I figure I would leave it in. I ran into Abzan Control and the Relics-Ooze combination was enough to keep them from doubling up on Lingering Souls most of the matchup.
I'd love to hear any feedback on the list I'm trying out.
I was actually considering Tracker and Copter in the flex slots for a build without BBE (which I'm not convinced about for this deck).
Thicket works much better with the manarocks over the dorks so it is probably a slightly different approach to the deck.
With 4x Talisman I can see some number of Mutavault (or Ghost Quarter) as an option for the deck for some more utility.
With Ancient Stirrings I think that having less than 4x Caverns is ok since you can dig for them if it gets countered it means less counters for the creatures.
I agree that an elfless dorkless build changes everything specifically making thicket much better. I still don't like copter or tracker in this build though.
I've been playing the GP winning list on MTGO a bit. Main issues I've found is the list is VERY weak to Blood Moon, with only 1 Mind Stone as a source of colorless after they drop it. Banking on having Hierarch and your only Forest to get Explosives on 3 is pretty pie-in-the-sky stuff. Ooze is nice to have but also has felt kinda awkward due to the manabase not supporting it well. Not really sold on Hierarchs either. But overall I like the deck. Obligator has been a riot. I stole my Titan Shift opponent's titan and got him for exactsies, a 6/7 Goyf, etc. The deck feels strong against Shadow in general, and Grzegorz analysis bears that out. I'm skeptical about BBE though. When you cast it you routinely have more than 10 blanks in your deck, which is roughly 30% of your possible hits when you cast it, on average. That just seems like too much to me.
Took the GP list to fnm last night and went 3-1. Played against goblins round one where scooze was an all star and then post board I hit k return, EE, and chalice in the same game so it was pretty lopsided. Played against Green Tron the next round where my opponent went Karn into Karn into Ulamog and still lost. Haste creatures really take the sting out of Karn liberated and getting an Ulamog with obligator is the dream. Game two hit crumble to dust for the win. Round three hit affinity and lost to multiple cranial platings. Round four hit E Tron and we're just faster and more consistent. I like the deck a lot, not sure I want BBE in it at all after testing it.
Changes to the manabases I made was cutting 3 cavern of souls for two wastes and a forest because field of ruin is a real card that exists
This deck is honestly sweet. Though I have a random question. Is it's lack of Haste one of the only reasons I haven't seen people running Tireless Tracker? It seems amazing as a 1 of 2-of to run in the main as something to cascade into or help you keep having action to throw at your opponent in grindier match-ups.
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Went 4-1 Last Saturday night with this list. Deck feels great. Only loss was to burn which felt like a bad match up. They had a spell heavy hand with lot of bolts going to the face game 2 and 3. Even with Thought-Knot taking a card out of their hand they still got there. Creature heavy hands seem more beatable. Tweaked the list a little and will be doing more going forward. Going to try Obstinate Baloth in the side over one Pithing Needle. I dropped a bird for a waste due to field of ruin. Also went to talisman over forked bolt due to blood moon. I was thinking of making it another mindstone because the cycling is great; however, if I went to the BBE version (which I'm not yet sold on) I'd go 2x talisman. I don't think tracker is where we want to be because we don't run fetches.
My matches were:
VS Burn (L 1-2)
First game he won the die roll but I roll out bigger creatures faster than he can deal damage. Game 2 I mull to a mediocre 5 and lost. Game 3 I mull again to 6 with a possible turn 2 thought-knot. Searing Blaze kills my dork and I dont get thought-knot out till turn 3. He top decks a bolt to win. So go Burn games. Out: 2 end bringer. In: 2 EE
Vs Battle of Wits (w 2-0)
I do eldrazi things while my opponent shuffles his 200 card deck. Nothing much to report here. Out: nothing In: nothing
Vs Black White Tokens (W 2-1)
Lost the die roll but doesn't matter game 1 because spirit tokens make poor blockers for reality smasher. G2 I pith'd naming a Gideon because he was giving me trouble and unfortunately lily came down right after (top decked). Eventually got rid of her but I lost that game after seeing her another time. Game 3 was a lot like the first. Out: obligators and dismemeber. In: needles, relics, and EE.
Vs Jund home brew (W 2-1)
I think my opponent was running a budget jund using Tas for goys. Regardless, I beat him quickly game one and a little more slowly game 2. Stealing tasigur and pumping him with kessig to swing for 10 felt really good. Out: nothing In: nothing
Vs RUG scapeshift ft. Jace.
G1 I realize quickly that my opponent is on scapeshift so I drop my obligator and start swinging asap. Thought-knot took his scapeshift while helping close the game. G2 I was close but he was able to cryptic, tap, draw into scapeshift. G3 was also close but I was able to go into smasher bolt before he could combo. Out: dismember and talisman In: Crumble to dust and one pithing needle (naming stever)
Overall I really like the deck. Feels like bant but quicker.
Thoughts on Domri Rade in this deck ?
Drawing more creatures can be good and eldrazi work well with the fight ability (much better than using Ulvenwald Tracker in early versions of the deck).
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-how-many-colored-mana-sources-do-you-need-to-consistently-cast-your-spells/
This is probably the go to article most people use for constructing manabases. It's worth a read
EDIT: I guess cavern kind of messes up the math a bit on account of being colourless mostly but not when you want to play through counterspells.
I think your missing the 4 cavern of souls. That gives us 16 colorless sources (18 counting Mind stone and k-run). I know we won't use the pain lands all the time but it seems like it would be nice to ensure green as an out to blood moon.
*edit: a green source so we can cast nature's claim/natural state
GUInfect UMerfolk RW Burn GRWBU Humans GWUBant Eldrazi GR RG EldraziC Serum Powder EldraziC Eldrazi TronGB GB Rock
Legacy:
GUInfect
RGLands
https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gplyo18/top-8-decklists-2018-02-18
I watched the twitch stream and saw all of Gregorz matches he was featured. Deck doesn't come across like a perfectly constructed work of art like Mardu Pyromancer (IMO), it definately looks Jank even in matches. However, it has a burst to it unlike most midrange in the format. For those asking about Noble Hierarch vs. Talisman of Impulse Hierarch exalt was quite important in numerous cases, often in multiples and making a 7/7 trampler. Also you lose 3rd color possibility when playing Engineered Explosives. I'd stick to hierarch for now. I think Scavenging Ooze vs Relic of Progenitus is a harder choice main deck. Ability to turn goyf into 0/1 and cantrip is quite good, and with the manabases being ran ooze doesn't seem quite as good. Ooze seems more valuable as another early threat and ability to gain life and better disable targeted graveyard cards like Snapcaster.
Manabase both in 5-0 MTGO and GP deck I'm not a huge fan of. The 4x Cavern of Souls especially. Several times in GP matches was put on human just to be able to play hierarch. Commentators even joked if one didn't know better would think playing against 5c humans. I can see keeping 2x caverns for counterspell protection but this doesn't seem good as a playset. It also nonbos with ooze and any colored spell from SB. I'm also not a fan of the Copperline Gorge in the MTGO list as deck wants to be playing 4-5cc spells and this will be awkward to play tapped. On the other hand the playset of Grove of the Burnwillows is perfect as a painless tri-land here which doubles as anti Death's Shadow.
Wanted to also note a similar deck I had watched streamed by Jeff Hoogland (also why was intrigued by R/G enldrzi), a W/G version:
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/jeffhoogland-12152017-eldrazi-evolution/
Btw his newest list actually gets the Ancient Stirrings in maindeck as well as Engineered Explosives. Jeff normally plays extra basics to benefit off of paths and minimize hurt from Blood Moon. His manabase is what I'm most interested to compare, he manages to get 13 colorless sources from land + play hierarch + 17 sources of green turn 1. Key card (which I'd play over cavern) is Hashep Oasis which both provides colorless, and green, but also provides a pump for essentially 4 mana for smusher. I'd also look to get to 4 fetches and at least 3 basics in. Using BBE I'd trim the bird and go with 23 lands as MTGO list did also.
I also agree above that I don't think Blood moon is good tech for this deck. I'm assuming the player ran in SB because of idea of getting it off BBE cascade. The 2x Crumble to Dust were very important for Gregorz against Tron, and vitally it can be pulled from Ancient Stirrings as its devoid/colorless.
Dismember is interesting, and unless some weird phyrexian mana ruling it should be free with BBE cascade so if anything it gets better. Btw in one match he did manage to double dismember an ulamog and then attacked through for the win lol.
The Endbringer seemed the worst card in the deck in matches I saw. Often discarded (liliana/karn/thoughtseize), and one time played it just chump blocked. Seems obvious spot to switch for BBE along with the mind stone and forked bolt. I also similarly don't like look of hazoret in the list, that card makes more sense in a ponza shell. With BBE already have 12 main deck creatures with haste.
Am curious to see Gregorz tutorial/breakdown, and hope he discusses BBE. He was asked about BBE/Jace after he won and his thoughts of new meta and he seemed kind of "meh we'll see" .
Focusing just on the RG Eldrazi which this forum is about, here is the article written by the GP Winner Gregorz Kowalski: http://www.hareruyamtg.com/article/en/sp/category/detail/275
He is a Polish professional MTG player who has a GP win and 4 other top 8s, as well as 12 Pro Tours under his belt not to mention an established testing team. I will have faith in his mana base. You dont just put a random manabase together and get 7 wins at a pro tour followed by a GP win... I would consider it tuned until someone more established says so.
If you read through his article you will gain insight on a lot of his choices but I do believe POST BBE and Jace unban the deck has room for further development with the spells. Specifically, I agree with some of the points you brought up earlier, Endbringer, Ooze, Forked Bolt, dismember, and the mind stone all seem highly flexible. Some cards that can be tested include Relic, Talisman, BBE, MD Engineered Explosives, and others.
One thing article reminded me is eldrazi tron due to its colorless mana base can't run demonic tutor...I mean Ancient Stirrings . Unlike tron and lantern this deck can also play more toolbox with stirrings esp. in SB which is great flavor as well.
It is a Stirrings hit and provides evasion and looting to the deck.
Another card which might be playable here is Tireless Tracker (potentially in the Ooze slot) to provide the some card draw to the deck.
A copy of Sea Gate Wreckage doesn't sound too bad in this deck as well (I play one in all my Eldrazi decks).
As far as the 1x Forked Bolt flex slot what about a copy of Crater's Claws (ferocious is very reasonable here and this can be a finisher in the deck)
or maybe Lash Out (as a Searing Blaze imitation, this deck should be good at clashing) ?
Some more "boring" options can be Flame Slash/Roast.
BtW, another 5-0 list was published with BBE and looks better than the previous one (no more Blood Moon in the SB).
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/951917
With all the bolts and pushes around I don't know if dorks are the more reliable plan which also explains why "Bant Eldrazi" has practically disappeared from the competitive scene.
Having more targets for Stirrings is also good.
I'm just not sure if the color-fixing of Talisman outweighs the cantripping of Mind Stone in this deck.
Maindeck sweepers don't seem like a great idea for the deck anyway, especially with Obligator.
Can Eldrazi Temple's second ability (producing 2 mana for eldrazi spells and abilities) be used for Eldrazi Obligator's "kicker" cost? Normally a moot point since you could use Temple to pay the main cost and other lands for the 'kicker' cost, but this has come up a few times with specifically Bloodbraid Elf, with the sequencing lining up that I can leave up 1 Eldrazi Temple but not 2 lands and you'd always like to have outs to pay for Obligator off of cascade.
I'm uncertain since the cost isn't a part of the spell's cost and it isn't a normal activated ability, but a triggered activated ability (might fall under the same umbrella?). I figured someone in this thread's probably run into this interaction by now.
I don't think copter is very good... With so many live hits on Stirrings I don't see why I would ever want a copter oversmasher, tks, temple, cavern vs blue or other lands to help cast elf.
Tireless tracker is a fine card but you have to remember with matter reshaper and bbe we are already generating automatic advantage directly on the battlefield. Also tracker generates a lot more value in fetch heavy decks and I don't think it's worth it for us to play and more than 2 fetches.
Sea gate Wreckage can fit into that one flex spot where wolf run is... You just have to decide which you like better as our land base is in my opinion very well tuned. I do think at this point it is either correct to run 5 dork 22 land or 4 dork 23 land in which case you would have room for 2 colorless flex lands.
4 cavern
4 Grove
4 karplusan
2 Foothills
1 stomping
1 Forest
1 mountain
4 Temple
1 flex
5th dork or second flex
Side note, Copperline is just bad in this deck.
I think 4 bolt 2 dismember are becoming universally accepted but that 1 forked bolt could be anything... Craters claws could be worth testing but I firmly believe you want this to be a 1 cmc spell. Remember you want to limit the number of cards dead on an empty board state with bbe versions.
Cavern is much better at curving v noble into bbe than thicket. You have to remember cavern can help you cast any colored creature.
Also in an anticipated Jace blue deck metagame I will have my 4 caverns until I see a reason not to.
Thicket works much better with the mana rocks over the dorks so it is probably a slightly different approach to the deck.
With 4x Talisman I can see some number of Mutavault (or Ghost Quarter) as an option for the deck for some more utility.
With Ancient Stirrings I think that having less than 4x Caverns is ok since you can dig for them if it gets countered it means less counters for the creatures.
I personally don't know much BBE adds to the deck itself but I'm willing to try it out. I'm looking at tinkering with the list to make it a little more streamlined.
My list that I'll be playing this week with the changes.
4 Noble Heirarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 TKS
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Obligator
1 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Reality Smasher
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
1 Endbringer
1 Drowner of Hope
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember
1 Talisman of Impulse
Landbase is the same as the original list.
Sideboard can vary week to week depending on local meta. I did use nearly every card in my sideboard except the 1 of Koz Return. I figure it was used primarily to wipe out pesky Spirit Tokens so I figure I would leave it in. I ran into Abzan Control and the Relics-Ooze combination was enough to keep them from doubling up on Lingering Souls most of the matchup.
I'd love to hear any feedback on the list I'm trying out.
I agree that an elfless dorkless build changes everything specifically making thicket much better. I still don't like copter or tracker in this build though.
Changes to the manabases I made was cutting 3 cavern of souls for two wastes and a forest because field of ruin is a real card that exists
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
My matches were:
VS Burn (L 1-2)
First game he won the die roll but I roll out bigger creatures faster than he can deal damage. Game 2 I mull to a mediocre 5 and lost. Game 3 I mull again to 6 with a possible turn 2 thought-knot. Searing Blaze kills my dork and I dont get thought-knot out till turn 3. He top decks a bolt to win. So go Burn games. Out: 2 end bringer. In: 2 EE
Vs Battle of Wits (w 2-0)
I do eldrazi things while my opponent shuffles his 200 card deck. Nothing much to report here. Out: nothing In: nothing
Vs Black White Tokens (W 2-1)
Lost the die roll but doesn't matter game 1 because spirit tokens make poor blockers for reality smasher. G2 I pith'd naming a Gideon because he was giving me trouble and unfortunately lily came down right after (top decked). Eventually got rid of her but I lost that game after seeing her another time. Game 3 was a lot like the first. Out: obligators and dismemeber. In: needles, relics, and EE.
Vs Jund home brew (W 2-1)
I think my opponent was running a budget jund using Tas for goys. Regardless, I beat him quickly game one and a little more slowly game 2. Stealing tasigur and pumping him with kessig to swing for 10 felt really good. Out: nothing In: nothing
Vs RUG scapeshift ft. Jace.
G1 I realize quickly that my opponent is on scapeshift so I drop my obligator and start swinging asap. Thought-knot took his scapeshift while helping close the game. G2 I was close but he was able to cryptic, tap, draw into scapeshift. G3 was also close but I was able to go into smasher bolt before he could combo. Out: dismember and talisman In: Crumble to dust and one pithing needle (naming stever)
Overall I really like the deck. Feels like bant but quicker.
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Obligator
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Endbringer
Spells
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember
1 Mind Stone
1 Talisman of Impulse
1 Waste
1 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Karplusan Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Stomping Ground
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Kozilek’s Return
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Natural State
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
2 Crumble to Dust
GUInfect UMerfolk RW Burn GRWBU Humans GWUBant Eldrazi GR RG EldraziC Serum Powder EldraziC Eldrazi TronGB GB Rock
Legacy:
GUInfect
RGLands
Drawing more creatures can be good and eldrazi work well with the fight ability (much better than using Ulvenwald Tracker in early versions of the deck).
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/962396
This list packed both Domri and copy of Hanweir Battlements which seems like a decent utility land though the deck has a lot of haste creatures already making it mostly TKS and Reshaper as targets.