MTG Salvation

You like Clique against Bant Eldrazi? Why?

It clocks them, it trades with reshapers/skyspawners, and it can take scary things despite cavern of souls.
Its not amazing, but its pretty servicable there.

Fair enough. I'm 12-0 against that deck since I started keeping track (best record other than traditional Tron, which I'm somehow 15-0 against), so I think it's super favorable either way, but I'll give Clique a try next time

They're good in similar matchups, but there's some matchups where one is good and the other isn't, so a split gives more utility there, and it doesn't come up often but sometimes they're on the battlefield at the same time, in which case it's great since they're each legendary

Benny, preparing for SCG Syracuse tomorrow. Two questions:

1) Can you tell me a little bit about your updated sideboard strategy with Crucible of Worlds and Surgical Extraction? Obv. Crucible against Tron, Death's Shadow, and Valakut, but what else? And other than combo I can't think what I want Surgical for.

2) Some of my 'free losses' were games with an opening hand of 3 or 4 lands, all colorless, colonnades, and glacial fortresses. I want to go down to 1 Glacial Fortress and play a second Hallowed Fountain (you can pay if you need to, otherwise it's a tapland) and one more Fetch. Thoughts?

1) I like Crucible against most decks that aren't trying to kill me quickly; decks with Liliana of the Veil that try to put you low on resources fold to Crucible a lot of the time, and any game where you have time to set up Crucible plus Tec Edge (especially against other blue control decks) it's great. The main reason I added Surgical was for Storm, because it's a hard lock if you Surgical Grapeshot and have a Jace or some answers to Empty the Warrens. It's obviously great against Dredge and other graveyard based decks, and then combo. Surgicaling Valakut is GG vs Titanshift decks.

2) I couldn't agree more, in the list I'm currently running I have 3 Plains, 1 Mystic Gate, and only 2 Fortresses. I used to run a 26th land that also turned on Fortress but it's worse now.

Quote from gkourou »

Hello, this is what I decided I am going to play in my control heavy LGS. Also, we have enough dredge or dredgevines as it is, but no Ad Nauseam/Storm/Titanshift players. Instead we got some Temur Scapeshift players.
So, those difficult matchups are not there, with the exception of Dredge, for which I dedicate 5 slots(we also have Coco and Jeskai Nahiri players and the Cage is great there).
I decided to cut the 25th land(one Plains) for a Remand, which is good against Ancestral Vision, but also for the most clunky decks.
Also, I went by BloodyRabit's suggestion for 4 Tectonic Edges, which are better against control decks and against those Temur Scapeshift decks.
Also, I want to cut a card from my sideboard and I don't know which, but I'll re-evaluate.
Could you see something better for me to be even better geared up towards Ux control decks? Maybe a second Rev? Maybe a Gideon, Ally Of Zendikar, or a maindeckable Elspeth? Maybe Spell Snares?
PS: No Confirm Suspicions. The card seems very akward and clunkly, and this is Modern which we are talking about. 5 mana to counter a spell and draw 3 cards over 6 mana? I would add the second Rev insead, it's MUCH better(lifegain, instant value).
Thanks a lot guys.

Hert79's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Land (24) 4x Celestial Colonnade 4x Flooded Strand 4x Tectonic Edge 2x Glacial Fortress 2x Hallowed Fountain 5x Island 2x Plains 1x Temple of Enlightenment Creatures(4) 2x Snapcaster Mage 2x Wall Of Omens Enchantment (6) 2x Detention Sphere 4x Spreading Seas	Planeswalker (5) 1x Gideon Jura 2x Gideon of the Trials 2x Jace, Architect of Thought Spells(21) 4x Serum Visions 4x Path To Exile 1x Remand 1x Logic Knot 2x Negate 1x Supreme Will 1x Sphinx's Revelation 1x Think Twice 3x Supreme Verdict 3x Cryptic Command	Sideboard (16) 2x Surgical Extraction 1x Grafdigger's Cage 1x Celestial Purge 1x Dispel 2x Negate 2x Rest in Peace 2x Stony Silence 1x Timely Reinforcements 1x Vendilion Clique 1x Geist of Saint Traft 1x Supreme Verdict 1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion

If you want to beat control stick a Narset Transcendent in the sb. This is really hard to beat for control, just plus to ultimate and watch them scramble with eot snapcasters and cryptic bounce.

Hey guys, I'm planning on attending the SCG Open in Richmond this coming Saturday, and I'd like a final list critique from you guys before I start testing. I think that the mainboard is pretty much settled, but I'd like to debate whether Elspeth or Gideon is a better one-of in the main, whether TT or Glimmer is a better one-of cantrip, how many lands (25 versus 26), and if 2 ar 3 Cryptic is correct. The real issue IMO is the sideboard. I think that it could be tuned a fair amount, and I'd like to hear various opinions on how to sideboard against decks like Shadow, E-Tron, Burn, Affinity, Storm, Shift, and the mirror.


Thanks so much guys. This will be my first event outside of FNMs, so hopefully I'll have a good report for you guys

I'd love to see your new list, Benny, if you'd be willing to share!

Quote from ThisBorzi »

I have been thinking about going up on a verdict in my maindeck (so 4 copies with the rest being similiar to BennyHillz) - I feel like it seems very unreasonable to have the 4th one in the board. The reason I play UW control is because I want to crush the decks that verdict is good against. Often, drawing Verdict is crucial in those matchups and it is the best card in many games. The matchups where verdict is bad are usually REALLY bad in g1, so why try to hedge does matchups when I can just add a versatile sideboard card to replace the sideboard verdict, that will hedge my chances in g2 and 3? Does that make sense?

I've had similar thoughts. I just can't figure out what to cut. I actually think it might be reasonable to cut the Sphinx Rev for it. I find the Rev to be the worst card in the deck and usually when I cast it I'm hoping to find removal anyways.

I agree Rev is never that impactful unless you are bascially winning anyway - verdict pulls you back from certain death - I play 4x Verdict over Rev and its working well for me..

Perhaps when you are drawing 5 cards you are getting destroyed by decks that go under you are dont care how much life or cards you draw? Not everyone has to agree with you mate

There is so much CA in the deck as is - but yeah I guess in control (or slow metas the card really shines). In an open meta I want cards that answer things immediately - I dont personally want more grindy cards - the deck has so many as is..

Yo IslandsareBroken your totally not giving Rev the credit it deserves. It probably is one of the most important cards in the deck due to the fact you can cast it and draw cards then save it for a snapcaster flashback and draw even more. In a deck that constantly wants to have more cards than our opponent and relys on few win conditions., it seems very wrong to cut. I would NEVERR play a list that doesn't run a copy of it main board. Also, How is adding a 4th supreme verdict even an option? Your adding removal in the place of CA. . Rev is one of the "staples " of U/W control and Ive never seen a finish that did not use Sphinx Rev. Dont be N00b.. Anyway, Have a great day!

Quote from dylanyad »

Yo IslandsareBroken your totally not giving Rev the credit it deserves. It probably is one of the most important cards in the deck due to the fact you can cast it and draw cards then save it for a snapcaster flashback and draw even more. In a deck that constantly wants to have more cards than our opponent and relys on few win conditions., it seems very wrong to cut. I would NEVERR play a list that doesn't run a copy of it main board. Also, How is adding a 4th supreme verdict even an option? Your adding removal in the place of CA. . Rev is one of the "staples " of U/W control and Ive never seen a finish that did not use Sphinx Rev. Dont be N00b.. Anyway, Have a great day!

Why are so many ppl straight rude on here - what is the point of even discussing things on this forum - thanks for the Noob comment. By the way im doing pretty well in MTGO with my list - thanks for your input

I was running a single rev, but replaced it with an Elspeth, and I am loving the change.

Quote from ThisBorzi »

I have been thinking about going up on a verdict in my maindeck (so 4 copies with the rest being similiar to BennyHillz) - I feel like it seems very unreasonable to have the 4th one in the board. The reason I play UW control is because I want to crush the decks that verdict is good against. Often, drawing Verdict is crucial in those matchups and it is the best card in many games. The matchups where verdict is bad are usually REALLY bad in g1, so why try to hedge does matchups when I can just add a versatile sideboard card to replace the sideboard verdict, that will hedge my chances in g2 and 3? Does that make sense?
Note: the card im replacing for the 4th maindeck verdict is the 3rd Cryptic - which is also not the greatest against linear decks but at least more versatile

I think maxing Verdict MB is the right call. It's often straight-up the best card or only out in 50%+ of matchups. It also is an easy cut for the matchups it's not good in, giving you one more sideboard slot.

I am high on Cryptic, but I think it's so versatile in shutting down random stuff. Also, I don't think I've lost a game where I drew 2-3 Cryptics against a deck with no counterspells. If you can land even a little Gideon, those Cryptics are time walks that replace themselves. With that logic I ran four and it felt great.

I would also like to point out that Card Advantage is not just drawing cards. This UW deck goes one for one a lot, yes, but it also goes two for one all the time. Spreading Seas, Wall of Omens, Snapcaster Mage, and most importantly Supreme Verdict, Cryptic Command, and Planeswalkers all do something for nothing (only card-wise; they are all mana-invesetments, but that's why we play so many gotdam lands!).

I'm thinking of mainboarding the one Geist instead of Elspeth. It might be a better wincon, and I'm also high on Elspeth, mind you. The only downside is it nobos with Verdict, but it's an insane followup to Verdict if you sequenced reasonably and saved your Path's for your opponent's followup.

I went 4-3 drop at SCG Syracuse with this list. I'm not the spikiest person ever: it was my first Open and I wasn't playing optimally, but it also felt really good to have the extra mainboard wincon, and 4 Cryptics/4 Verdicts. If anything, I think Gideon Jura or the Walls should go if you *need* Rev.

note: second Timely Reinforcements should be Crucible of Worlds

The argument that Rev is necessary is contradicted by the fact that virtually everyone only runs a single copy with no way to tutor for it. Except for in control matches (where Rev kinda sucks) you're unlikely to even find the Singleton over the course of any given game.

Well put Lejoon.

On another note, I have on flex in my SB:


If my mainboard affects this, my list is posted on the previous page. Thanks!

Quote from Lejoon »

Quote from jayjayhooks »

The argument that Rev is necessary is contradicted by the fact that virtually everyone only runs a single copy with no way to tutor for it. Except for in control matches (where Rev kinda sucks) you're unlikely to even find the Singleton over the course of any given game.

That's not a contradiction. You're just not thinking clearly.

You only play one because you only want it late game to fuel your hand and or pad your life total. But you never want to draw it in your opener. You can argue for two copies meaning you're much more probable to draw it but also more probable to have it in your opener.

With 1 copy you're 12% chance to have it in the opener and 22% if you run two copies. However, assuming you see 15 cards deep (which is about turn 10 into the game if you factor in all the card draw, Serum Visions and Jace you have a probability of 35% if you play one copy and you would think that the probability to see it then is 70% if you run two, but no it's 58% only. Notice that 22% is almost double the probability of having it in the opener relative to 12% if you run one copy. But 58% is further from the the double of 35% than 22% is the double of 12%. So you don't leverage as much on having 2 copies lategame as much as you dilute your opening hands with an unwanted card.

This is why you only run 1 copy.

All that math is very lovely, and much appreciated, but 35% still suggests that you are unlikely to see it in the majority of games, which means it isn't necessary (assuming we have a better than 35% win rate). At 58% you would see it in more games than you wouldn't.