Well of course the 2 power is relevant, If I didn't make it clear what I meant was that it isn't nearly as relevant as the much higher likelihood of Sphinx being better than a 6 Mana vanilla creature that trades for a removal spell.
Azor might be better than consecrated against combo, but it's still not good there either. So you resolve azor and they can't kill you next turn. Ok,now you have a 6/6 with no abilities because you can't afford to tap out during your attack step. Pretty much any creature with flash is going to be a million times better against combo, and concesxrated Sphinx is better against everything else (and still not playable).
Azor doesn't stop your opponent from casting spells on the turn you resolve it, right?
Ad naus can win at instant speed.
Storm will set up a good gifts pile.
Scapeshift can cast primeval titan.
Through the breach is an instant that lets them attack with their creature on their turn if cast EoT.
It does do something against mono blue living end.
This card is only amazing if your opponent plays mostly sorceries, or only wants to do stuff on their turn. It would be good vs pyromancer Ascension storm, the fate stitcher jeskai ascendancy deck, and blue based scapeshift decks, but these decks don't exist anymore. I guess it's decent against infect if they don't have a blighted agent, but is that a deck anymore? It could be good against burn, but i'd have to play test it to see the interaction, it does wreck suspended rift bolt.
I think if the card had flash it would see play testing.
How does Baffling End stack up against Journey to nowhere? I think 3/3 is definitely easier to handle than whatever creature you're going to hit is, but is the drawback of hitting <4cmc too high? I guess the real question is, does journey get destroyed often enough to worry about that kind of thing? Probably not right, I mean d-sphere rarely gets hit.
How does Baffling End stack up against Journey to nowhere? I think 3/3 is definitely easier to handle than whatever creature you're going to hit is, but is the drawback of hitting <4cmc too high? I guess the real question is, does journey get destroyed often enough to worry about that kind of thing? Probably not right, I mean d-sphere rarely gets hit.
The companion question to yours is this: how often will the ability to bounce and recast Baffling End come into play? Flickerwisp players may have perked up when this card was spoiled (the trampling 3/3 is a downside, but can be dealt with profitably by common D&T cards like Restoration Angel, Blade Splicer’s token, and Thalia, Heretic Cathar).
For us, the prospect of bouncing and replaying Baffling End with Cryptic is definitely live. I personally don’t find myself doing so often with D-Sphere, but End will typically be a better target for that. Wall of Omens lines up perfectly against the 3/3 token, as does Gideon of the Trials assuming a board that’s otherwise under control. Baffling End may well be worth testing.
Hey guys, longtime lurker, first time poster.
What about this newest card spoiled in Rivals? Is this playable here? A wrath effect we can use a turn early that gets around indestructible/hexproof, hoses early game aggressive strategies like dredge, bogles, affinity, and elves, by lowering the amount of damage they can deal to a maximum of 4.
Slaughter the Strong {1}{W}{W}
Each player chooses any number of creatures creatures with total power 4 or less, then sacrifices the rest.
It seems pretty weak here. Leaving behind small creatures (potentially) kind of sucks, because it means we're going to have to find another "real" wrath sooner or later. It potentially plays well with jace (kills big things, leaves small things that get hosed by the -1/-0) but the only way this strikes me as playable is if we get to keep some dudes in play.
I suspect this may see play as the sideboard wrath in jeskai queller (keeping like 2 queller, or queller + geist) is pretty sweet. It makes vendilion clique (as well as resto/other 3 power creatures) a bit less appealing, but thats fine, IMO.
If been playing this deck for some month at FNM now. Sadly, not too successfully (except when I get paired against Tron) because I don't play it often enough and the rounds at my FNM are only 40 minutes, I go to time too often.
Since Strom is rather rampant now at my LGS, I was wondering if any of you have any thoughts on or experience with Nimble Obstructionist as a sideboard card (to stifle the storm trigger)? Is it worth including?
If been playing this deck for some month at FNM now. Sadly, not too successfully (except when I get paired against Tron) because I don't play it often enough and the rounds at my FNM are only 40 minutes, I go to time too often.
Since Strom is rather rampant now at my LGS, I was wondering if any of you have any thoughts on or experience with Nimble Obstructionist as a sideboard card (to stifle the storm trigger)? Is it worth including?
I tried to make obstructionist work, but it's not a great sideboard card. It's actually better as a 3/1 flash against storm in the postboard games. In the main, it's a fine 1-of. The best sideboard card against storm is surgical extraction paired with some extra counter-magic and a pair of flash threats. I'm not much concerned about storm anymore tbh, you just flash a threat in ASAP on thier end-step before they can gifts unless you have surgical. If you have surgical tap out on thier end step for anything and they will gifts in response, then you surgical the past in flames and it's basically game over. They have to beat you with Empty the Warrens, and between verdict, Jace and d-sphere they just can't.
Canonist, rest in peace, rule of law, eidolon are better than Obstructionist as they allow you to tap out and then hold up the rest of our counter suite.
Okay, so my sideboard should already be setup to handle Storm then with 2 RiP, 2 Surgical, Clique and additional counters.
I was asking because last time I lost on his T3 when I tapped out for RiP in T2 and thought "guess grave hate isn't enough". I guess he just got lucky? (His storm count wasn't too high, but he remanded his own Gutshot and cast it again which was enough)
Okay, so my sideboard should already be setup to handle Storm then with 2 RiP, 2 Surgical, Clique and additional counters.
I was asking because last time I lost on his T3 when I tapped out for RiP in T2 and thought "guess grave hate isn't enough". I guess he just got lucky? (His storm count wasn't too high, but he remanded his own Gutshot and cast it again which was enough)
Thanks for the answers
He definitely got lucky to kill you through a RIP on T3 without bouncing your RIP. I don't think I've ever seen that. But no, usually the permanent based answers are not good enough because they have wipe-away. I mean, you still bring them in because we just have so many bad cards against them, but from my experience surgical is usually enough. Just be very aggressive with your flash creatures, if you have a Snapcaster it should be in play on turn 2.
I'm playing a modified version of mcwinsauce's decklist.
I don't want to play mana leak and path to exile (too many bad memories), so I cut it for a shadow of doubt. Mana leak is usually at its best vs combo and against expensive cards. Shadow of doubt is similar in that it hits gifts in storm(combo), and obviously scapeshift's cards and expedition map in tron. It also has benefits vs fetches and occasionally you can combine it with path to not give the opponent a land.
In the board I cut a canonist for a clique. I think canonist is too narrow as I only wanted it vs storm. Where as surprisingly mindbreak trap is not as narrow as I thought, as i've used it to exile cavern of souls creatures. And I bring it in vs decks that want to cast expensive cards. I've been having problems closing out games, so that's why I went for clique. I am not sure if spell queller is better, I haven't tested it. I think if you do want quellers though, they seem better in multiples. I don't think this deck can afford to devote that many sideboard slots to that game plan.
I was shocked how bad spell snare is currently. When I was playing jeskai control three years ago I was playing 3 snares and happy with it. I just recently cut it for secure the wastes. I'm still testing the card so it could be bad, as I know not many people play secure the wastes. I wanted another card to close out the game, that can have some utility. The other card I was thinking about was nimble obstructionist. I think obstructionist is a better main deck card than sideboard card.
I like sphinx's revelation. Although I am pretty biased as i've played with the card a ton when it was in block and standard. I really like having life gain in the deck, as losing to lightning bolts is very real. I think the only life gain cards that you can main deck are blessed alliance or renewed faith.
The reason why this deck works is that a lot of the cards cantrip (serum visions), cantrip and interact the opponent (wall of omens, spreading seas), or are straight 2 for 1s (verdict, cryptic, etc...). This lets you play an interactive game while not flooding out in your 25 land deck or hoping to draw gas. You can't really trade 1 for 1 with people unless you have a fast clock and fewer lands. And the cards that don't replace themselves (gideons, runed halo, and detention spheres), these have utility and can get two for ones or make your opponent play into verdict. And the one card that doesn't fit that theme is path, it's actually card disadvantage in the early game. But's it's hyper efficient and is an insane tempo swing as the game goes longer. So if you're changing the deck, the card needs to replace itself, be hyper efficient, or have a lot of utility (not Azor).
I don't think you want to cut lands in this deck. If I did I would cut rev for another glimmer and probably the plains for an opt. The 3rd plains is only good vs blood moon and death and taxes and maybe if some mad men are playing choke/boil.
I think as the pro tour comes people are going to be playing more linear and efficient decks, so rev will probably be not a good choice.
I mean, canonist, eidolon, and rule of law are all a little different.
Canonist is the easiest to kill, but its a 2 drop. It also clocks for 2.
Eidolon is a 1/4, meaning it dodges bolt/abrade, but it clocks half as fast.
Rule of law is immune to all artifact/creature removal, but is also a 3 drop, and doesn't clock.
I think rule of law is the generally prefered version in this deck, as we're generally more concerned with not losing than anything else.
Azcanta incentivizes playing more.landa rather than less. You want to maximize the chances of having 3-5 lands in the opener, but being able to push them away during later stages if the game. Serum Visions and Azcanta both provide this in the mid-late (or the opposite in the early game). I lose way more games to having too few lands rather than too many. The only time I really find myself flooding is in matches where Field of Ruins isn't good.
Speaking of Field of Ruin, Rev is currently the best it's ever been because of ruin. I'm still not sure if it's good enough though, I tend to shy away from Rev. I do really like having access to an instant/sorcery Xcmc spell though, always a welcome topdeck and can turn Snapcaster into a game ending topdeck if you had to bind/burn your X spell early. Secure is a little more flexible than Rev for that kind of role. Anyone have any ideas for other good X spells?
I still think Mana Leak is a necessary Evil, but I do like Rickster's thinking along the Shadow of Doubt lines, the card is pretty good and fights some of the same things you'd want to fight with Mana leak, namely Titan, shift and gifts, but I think it's still necessary to have a critical density of counter-magic for Urza'a Tower decks - Mana leak is one of the reasons that Gx Tron is such a good match, and most of the time leak is necessary against Eldrazi Tron as well.
I will post a list tomorrow with some of these changes that I think could be good right now. (Haven't had much time to play unfortunately)
Its possible that the 2 settle/blessed alliance might be too cute, and that instead of the second alliance, there should just be a second Halo to help out with the Storm/Valakut matches further.
Looking at the 2 jeskai lists from the SCG finals, they both eschew mana leak, and I think one of the reasons they are able to do that is because of the increased spot removal that they have. So you may be correct, but I would try it with the 2 alliance first.
Interesting that they are both running Secure the Wastes as well, I think it is a well positioned card right now.
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Azor might be better than consecrated against combo, but it's still not good there either. So you resolve azor and they can't kill you next turn. Ok,now you have a 6/6 with no abilities because you can't afford to tap out during your attack step. Pretty much any creature with flash is going to be a million times better against combo, and concesxrated Sphinx is better against everything else (and still not playable).
To be clear, I'm not saying that Azor is good for Modern. I just think it is not bad.
Ad naus can win at instant speed.
Storm will set up a good gifts pile.
Scapeshift can cast primeval titan.
Through the breach is an instant that lets them attack with their creature on their turn if cast EoT.
It does do something against mono blue living end.
This card is only amazing if your opponent plays mostly sorceries, or only wants to do stuff on their turn. It would be good vs pyromancer Ascension storm, the fate stitcher jeskai ascendancy deck, and blue based scapeshift decks, but these decks don't exist anymore. I guess it's decent against infect if they don't have a blighted agent, but is that a deck anymore? It could be good against burn, but i'd have to play test it to see the interaction, it does wreck suspended rift bolt.
I think if the card had flash it would see play testing.
The companion question to yours is this: how often will the ability to bounce and recast Baffling End come into play? Flickerwisp players may have perked up when this card was spoiled (the trampling 3/3 is a downside, but can be dealt with profitably by common D&T cards like Restoration Angel, Blade Splicer’s token, and Thalia, Heretic Cathar).
For us, the prospect of bouncing and replaying Baffling End with Cryptic is definitely live. I personally don’t find myself doing so often with D-Sphere, but End will typically be a better target for that. Wall of Omens lines up perfectly against the 3/3 token, as does Gideon of the Trials assuming a board that’s otherwise under control. Baffling End may well be worth testing.
What about this newest card spoiled in Rivals? Is this playable here? A wrath effect we can use a turn early that gets around indestructible/hexproof, hoses early game aggressive strategies like dredge, bogles, affinity, and elves, by lowering the amount of damage they can deal to a maximum of 4.
Slaughter the Strong {1}{W}{W}
Each player chooses any number of creatures creatures with total power 4 or less, then sacrifices the rest.
But im not sure. Is it worth a T3 investment?
I suspect this may see play as the sideboard wrath in jeskai queller (keeping like 2 queller, or queller + geist) is pretty sweet. It makes vendilion clique (as well as resto/other 3 power creatures) a bit less appealing, but thats fine, IMO.
Since Strom is rather rampant now at my LGS, I was wondering if any of you have any thoughts on or experience with Nimble Obstructionist as a sideboard card (to stifle the storm trigger)? Is it worth including?
I tried to make obstructionist work, but it's not a great sideboard card. It's actually better as a 3/1 flash against storm in the postboard games. In the main, it's a fine 1-of. The best sideboard card against storm is surgical extraction paired with some extra counter-magic and a pair of flash threats. I'm not much concerned about storm anymore tbh, you just flash a threat in ASAP on thier end-step before they can gifts unless you have surgical. If you have surgical tap out on thier end step for anything and they will gifts in response, then you surgical the past in flames and it's basically game over. They have to beat you with Empty the Warrens, and between verdict, Jace and d-sphere they just can't.
I was asking because last time I lost on his T3 when I tapped out for RiP in T2 and thought "guess grave hate isn't enough". I guess he just got lucky? (His storm count wasn't too high, but he remanded his own Gutshot and cast it again which was enough)
Thanks for the answers
He definitely got lucky to kill you through a RIP on T3 without bouncing your RIP. I don't think I've ever seen that. But no, usually the permanent based answers are not good enough because they have wipe-away. I mean, you still bring them in because we just have so many bad cards against them, but from my experience surgical is usually enough. Just be very aggressive with your flash creatures, if you have a Snapcaster it should be in play on turn 2.
I'm playing a modified version of mcwinsauce's decklist.
I don't want to play mana leak and path to exile (too many bad memories), so I cut it for a shadow of doubt. Mana leak is usually at its best vs combo and against expensive cards. Shadow of doubt is similar in that it hits gifts in storm(combo), and obviously scapeshift's cards and expedition map in tron. It also has benefits vs fetches and occasionally you can combine it with path to not give the opponent a land.
In the board I cut a canonist for a clique. I think canonist is too narrow as I only wanted it vs storm. Where as surprisingly mindbreak trap is not as narrow as I thought, as i've used it to exile cavern of souls creatures. And I bring it in vs decks that want to cast expensive cards. I've been having problems closing out games, so that's why I went for clique. I am not sure if spell queller is better, I haven't tested it. I think if you do want quellers though, they seem better in multiples. I don't think this deck can afford to devote that many sideboard slots to that game plan.
I was shocked how bad spell snare is currently. When I was playing jeskai control three years ago I was playing 3 snares and happy with it. I just recently cut it for secure the wastes. I'm still testing the card so it could be bad, as I know not many people play secure the wastes. I wanted another card to close out the game, that can have some utility. The other card I was thinking about was nimble obstructionist. I think obstructionist is a better main deck card than sideboard card.
I like sphinx's revelation. Although I am pretty biased as i've played with the card a ton when it was in block and standard. I really like having life gain in the deck, as losing to lightning bolts is very real. I think the only life gain cards that you can main deck are blessed alliance or renewed faith.
The reason why this deck works is that a lot of the cards cantrip (serum visions), cantrip and interact the opponent (wall of omens, spreading seas), or are straight 2 for 1s (verdict, cryptic, etc...). This lets you play an interactive game while not flooding out in your 25 land deck or hoping to draw gas. You can't really trade 1 for 1 with people unless you have a fast clock and fewer lands. And the cards that don't replace themselves (gideons, runed halo, and detention spheres), these have utility and can get two for ones or make your opponent play into verdict. And the one card that doesn't fit that theme is path, it's actually card disadvantage in the early game. But's it's hyper efficient and is an insane tempo swing as the game goes longer. So if you're changing the deck, the card needs to replace itself, be hyper efficient, or have a lot of utility (not Azor).
I don't think you want to cut lands in this deck. If I did I would cut rev for another glimmer and probably the plains for an opt. The 3rd plains is only good vs blood moon and death and taxes and maybe if some mad men are playing choke/boil.
I think as the pro tour comes people are going to be playing more linear and efficient decks, so rev will probably be not a good choice.
Canonist is the easiest to kill, but its a 2 drop. It also clocks for 2.
Eidolon is a 1/4, meaning it dodges bolt/abrade, but it clocks half as fast.
Rule of law is immune to all artifact/creature removal, but is also a 3 drop, and doesn't clock.
I think rule of law is the generally prefered version in this deck, as we're generally more concerned with not losing than anything else.
Speaking of Field of Ruin, Rev is currently the best it's ever been because of ruin. I'm still not sure if it's good enough though, I tend to shy away from Rev. I do really like having access to an instant/sorcery Xcmc spell though, always a welcome topdeck and can turn Snapcaster into a game ending topdeck if you had to bind/burn your X spell early. Secure is a little more flexible than Rev for that kind of role. Anyone have any ideas for other good X spells?
I still think Mana Leak is a necessary Evil, but I do like Rickster's thinking along the Shadow of Doubt lines, the card is pretty good and fights some of the same things you'd want to fight with Mana leak, namely Titan, shift and gifts, but I think it's still necessary to have a critical density of counter-magic for Urza'a Tower decks - Mana leak is one of the reasons that Gx Tron is such a good match, and most of the time leak is necessary against Eldrazi Tron as well.
I will post a list tomorrow with some of these changes that I think could be good right now. (Haven't had much time to play unfortunately)
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Secure the Wastes
Planeswalkers (3)
2 Gideon of the Trials
1 Jace, Architect of thought
Countermagic (3)
3 Cryptic Command
Removal (13)
4 Path to Exile
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Runed Halo
2 Detention Sphere
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Settle the Wreckage
Card Quality (13)
4 Serum Visions
4 Spreading Seas
2 Shadow of Doubt
3 Search For Azcanta
4 Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
2 Glacial Fortress
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Prairie Stream
1 Irrigated Farmland
5 Island
3 Plains
4 Field Of Ruin
1 Rest in Peace
1 Grafdiggers Cage
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Dispel
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Negate
2 Spell Snare
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Sun Titan
1 Vendilion Clique
Its possible that the 2 settle/blessed alliance might be too cute, and that instead of the second alliance, there should just be a second Halo to help out with the Storm/Valakut matches further.
Interesting that they are both running Secure the Wastes as well, I think it is a well positioned card right now.