MTG Salvation

IMO the Wall of Omens are flex spots depending on your meta. In my meta it is pretty much worse than any card with cycle but it can definitely be an awesome curve consideration in a lot of metas. Curving Wall into Gideon into verdict is absurd against creature heavy decks. I'm trying an additional Think Twice and a Logic knot in those slots currently, as my meta slants towards Midrange, control and big Mana decks - wall is fine against Midrange, but those aren't even super popular around me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YHLkcoeiFM

Corey Burkhart playing his own take on UW Control. Decent showing although i'm not particulary into his list.

Finally he says that UW is probably just good because of Eldrazi and Death's Shadows. He says the deck is bad against Combo and Value although he is talking about his list and finishes by saying that Gideon of The Trials is the card that he really wants to test and could potentially solve those issues.

Quote from BloodyRabbit_01 »

My point is that, if you want more slots against creature decks (I do) Condemn does a better job than Wall, even though it doesn't cycle against the other matchups. There are too many creatures against whom a vanilla 0/4 does pretty much nothing (Shadow, Delve threats, Tarmogoyf, Grim Flayer, Delver of Secrets, Vendilion Clique, Spell Queller, Inkmoth&Blinkmoth Nexus, most Eldrazi and Affinity stuff, and so on). I'm not dismissing the card: it does provide some value, expecially against opposing Snapcaster Mage, but I always felt like it's by far the weakest spot in the sixty. I do like a pair of Condemn more (it's even faster, with the additional value of gaining like condemning a Colonnade if you need to keep yourself alive), but it's just a meta choice.

I agree that its probably the weakest in the 60. I think we differ in valuing it against the big creatures though. Often I will avoid chumping with my Wall until I'm ready to drop a Walker plus hold up countermagic. I dont mind taking 4-5 damage once or twice when I have a Wall out.

That about brings me to my next point of interest - which walkers? I picked up another Gideon Trials, and I'm gonna try it out over the big Gideon. The mana difference between them is my largest concern. I don't often like to 'upgrade' my little Gideon because most of the time the stats are marginal. Can anyone justify Big gideon over 3rd little gideon? Or over Elspeth, sun's champion (other than she doesn't benefit from little gideon emblem?)

What would be y'alls opinion of a list you would take to a PPtQ? I am currently running the latest 5-0 version off mtggoldfish. I find my loses so far against Death and Taxes and bant eldrazi the most often.

I played Bennhyhillz list again last night and went 3-1, I lost to Jeskai (Queller) when we were both 3-0 and I misplayed and boarded wrong against him I think... Died with a Sphinx's rev in hand and about 14 mana in play, attacked with a colonnade and forgot he had a ghost quarter. I think removing all my sweepers vs Jeskai was probably not smart, even if it just kills a snapcaster mage it's at least uncounterable. In my defense I did draw a ton of blanks in both games and he had an unchecked Ajani Vengeant for most of the game. Anyone have advice on this matchup and also hate bears?

Anyway round 1 I played against Naya Burn and Wall + Gideon won both of the games for me. Game 1 I was at 1 or 2 when I made the emblem and had a wall blocking 1 wild cat for awhile, don't remember how I won exactly, but it was intense. Game 2 I board out all my sweepers and he ends up with 3 nacatls 2 goblins and a swiftspear of course. I had 5 lands in play and dead next turn with just a wall and gideon at 2 loyalty, I spreading seas his foundry and top deck an extremely timely reinforcements! He gets me back down to 1 after a couple turns and I land big gideon with the emblem still in play, finally I draw geist and swing for 16 when he was at 15.

Round 2 is living end, game 1 was pretty simple, I countered every living end or verdict the resolved ones. Game 2 he beast withins 2 RIPs and ends up winning on his 3rd cast of living end. Game 3 I countered his first living end and he conceded when he showed me the other 2 in his hand

Round 3 Melira Company (or whatever you call it now) 30 minute game 1, he has a like 14/14 ooze that I keep locked down with baby gideon who was at 13 loyalty at the end of the game, lol! I could have gotten rid of it many times, but I felt like I'd be better off just grinding him out and saving removal in case he gets a combo established. Game 2 I played a grafdiggers right away and for some reason he forgot to blow it up with his pridemage and ended up just conceding, never would have finished 3 games anyway.

I think this is what I'm going to try next time, and maybe throw the Clique in the main instead of one of the mana leaks? still uncertain, but 26 lands just seems like a little bit of overkill sometimes.

Had some of the same feelings towards the mana base. Ben says it's imperative to hit your first land drops(and even you late land drops too), but 26 lands has been painful. It's like we´re playing in a different league(like a Standard league) and we hang on only by exploiting certain metagame weaknesses.
I find myself drawing 3 lands in a row too often, and sometimes too many tapped ones.

Other than that, the other 34 cards seem very well tuned and determined.

Hi everyone!
Guys, I think I could use some help.
I'm a new player and I really like this deck. At the moment I'm trying to make a relatively budget version of it and to tune it somehow. But I'm very unexperienced, so I would be very grateful, if someone helped me.

Here's the deck I've been working on, but there are still some things that bug me, especially my mana base
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/704141#online

Should I maybe start with a sun titan UW control?

I think some info about my LGS meta could help. There are mostly abzan, death's shadow, hatebears, trons and melira company pilots. Some people play uw control as well, faeries, ad nauseam, infect, 8rack. That's it, I reckon.

I hope this is the right place to ask for help, I haven't found any up-to-date threads devoted to budget UW control .

Any suggestions and advice are welcome! Thanks in advance!

Frankly, without colonnades this deck isn't worth playing. They're incredibly integral to the performance of the deck.
Otherwise, I think you're somewhat on the right track.
The fourth serum visions is pretty important, and I think your counterspell suite needs work.
Given that you don't have snapcaster mage, rune snag is very worth considering.
I think you should also cut the white sun's zenith. It works in esper control, but you don't need it here. If you feel you need another wincon, secure the wastes, elspeth sun's champion, or even something like spell queller or restoration angel are worth considering.
Its unfortunate that you do not have snapcaster mages either, as ojutai's command does a reasonable cryptic command impression (four costed 2 for 1) but without snaps, its a lot narrower.

I think something like:

You'll likely need a very spell-heavy sideboard, as you are very pre-boarded against creature decks.
Dispels, more negates, geists, queller, maybe even meddling mages, as well as rest in peace, etc, should take up a lot of spots.

He just finished 5-0 with a slightly different list and only 25 lands... only 1 jace and a supreme will Seems like he will just go 5-0 with whatever he decides to play haha.

Also @jillie_beanboi that must be tough without the Colonnades... You should probably at least have Elspeth and another little Gideon in the main and maybe Geist, but I think you really need to get the manlands before anything else.

Quote honestly, I've been liking the Benny version except for a few changes. I cut a Leak and added a Knot, which is more personal preference. I made some SB changes as well, but the main thing I'm wondering is if cutting a land for a Cryptic or something of the sort would be viable. Thanks guys!

New here but long time follower. Love control. Been testing different combinations. After testing the Benny version, I've tweaked by adding a Supreme Will. It felt just right every time I played it. I'd almost be tempted to swap out the mana leaks for Supreme Wills all together. Mana leak is a dead card at times, Supreme Will is never dead. For a control deck, it's never good to have dead cards stuck in your hand. I think 1 Jace main and 1 Jace in the side works well too.

So Benny cut a land to 25 and now has a Mystic Gate, which seems right as you have 1 less source of colored mana so it helps offset that loss to play Cryptic and Verdict.

Cutting Jace for a Cryptic seems iffy. Jace has always been amazing for me, great vs tokens, card advantage, and a win condition.

I do like Supreme Will as it curves into T4 Verdict which we need a lot of the time and helps find it.

I assume the Surgical's are to help vs the Titanshift match, but other than that and Dredge what matchup does it even come in against.

It's not good enough vs Death Shadow I believe, not good enough vs Goyf decks, and worse vs Dredge. I think 2 Peace and 1 Extraction might be right but I haven't tested it yet. I'm just not seeing what matchup you'd want the Extractions other than Titanshift where Rest in Peace is just better.

Crucible is nice in the control mirrors to attack their manabase, I just don't have the cash to test it right now.

I do like Supreme Will as it curves into T4 Verdict which we need a lot of the time and helps find it.

Supreme Will has been fantastic since testing. Never a dead card and I'm really starting to believe it's just worth the 1 extra mana to spend over using Mana leak.

Let me add that I've been having more success with 4 Tectonic edges over Ghost Quarters. There were 2 separate matches where I out played Ponza decks by beating them at their own game. Between the 4 Spreading Seas and 4 Tec Edges, they could never establish a board. Currently, I'm running a total of 7 counter spells and 2 Remands in the main and that package has been going well. No mana leaks either. So far, running 25 lands has been no problem. A few games where I needed to hit another land, Supreme Will allowed me to do it at instant speed. It's going to take a lot for someone to convince me Supreme Will doesn't belong in this deck. To have a conditional counter spell that also allows you to choose digging into top 4 is clearly worth that 1 extra mana.

I think people sometimes forget how powerful flexibility is. I had thought that Supreme Will was underestimated. Now I want to give it a shot.

Supreme will just seems like such an un-powerful card to me It is kind of sad that a card like this is even an option in a top tier deck though. I agree with BloodyRabbit that I think Disallow would just be way better in this slot... I sure would have liked to been able to counter that ghost quarter on my colonnade or any of those cascades (or storm) the other day. I've also been on the fence about Think Twice but it seems like a necessary 1 of in this list even though I think it's a pretty bad card, there's just no other good options that aren't banned.

I've had zero issues in the early game with Supreme Wills. For U/W control, the early game can be controlled by using Spreading Seas, paths, negates, and also remands, which I run in place of Wall of Omens. On the surface, Supreme Will looks a tad underwhelming but when you actually play the deck with it, you realize how good it actually is, especially on the curve due to it's flexibility. Against aggro decks, U/W control always struggles even with mana leaks. I understand Benny has had success with mana leaks but I can't tell you how many times I've been stuck with one in hand later in games where it becomes a dead card. Our deck is meant to go long and mana leak is just bad in the long game. I do agree that we need action with our 2 CMC cards, which is why I'm testing 2 negates and 2 Remands main. Remand has been much better than I expected. I've had games where I turn 2 Remand into Supreme Will into Cryptic or Remand into Gideon into Supreme Verdict. I've tested about 55 games now with Supreme Will and compared to what was mana leak before, I've had more success with Supreme Will in the main over mana leaks. What remains to be seen is how well my latest build would do in leagues, where tier 1 decks are more prominent.

The problem with supreme will is basically that when you're on the draw, there is an insane amount of powerful things that can be done before you have three mana. A singleton in addition to enough other 2cmc counters seems alright, but playing three is crazy, IMO.

I think Supreme Will is an excellent card - in Standard control.

How do you guys play against RG Scapeshift Titan? I sometimes win, but that's when i have Tec Edges and Counters for days, other than that i find it difficult to know when to apply pressure and whhich lands to Spreading Seas.

Does someone with XP can give me some simple lines of play?

Thanks!

PS: I was playing Benny's last list with Supreme Will and Surgical in the SB.