Yeah this match up is very favorable, and when Bant Eldrazi Draws it's temples in the opening 7 the deck's great.
Note: Smasher is terribad here, it will never get through DS, and you have better threats than Smasher here, Drowner, TKS and Displacer win this match up. Skyspawner is also an MVP. We top deck better, WAY better.
Very Grindy match up, EE was my MVP, it takes care of their most potent threats and forces opponents into keeping threats back. Smasher can get outclassed by Gofy and Scooze so I board 1 out, and reshaper is pretty lack luster here. My other argument was it's non bo with RIP, so I cut them. (I think it's best to just cut them from my list altogether now). This match up is favorable.
Note: A + for Ghost Quarter, I didn't have access to a W G3, and I GQ one of my own Temples to get a basic Plains. I untap cast Displacer, blink his blocker and Tap his other block down and swing past his Lili for lethal. It's plays like this that remind me of how important deck mastery is.
R3) Vs R/G Ponza 0-2 LOL Whatever lol
The guy who runs this deck is a very nice dude, he just happens to love Blood Moon and I happen to hate playing against that card since the decks I run get wrecked by it. G1, T2 Moon, G3, T3 Moon GG.
I've been thinking about running 2 Talisman of Progress again, Moon decks are coming back to combat Valakut, and this was one way Bant Eldrazi got around this. It's worth it and I may revert back to that style of build.
R4) Vs Mono Red Tron 2-0 Win (dude was trying a super spicey list)
It didn't matter what he was trying to do, the deck did T2 TKS in 2x Smasher G1. G2 T3 Tks, T4 TKS, hold up Stubborn Denial, counter his Expedition Map, Path his wurmcoil and T5 Smasher for the win.
When this deck draws Eldrazi Temple, it's great. It is very good against fair decks and I think it's good against Tron Variants. I'm in the camp that Bant Eldrazi beats Eldrazi Tron. That's me, though, I have SB plan for it and we are just a hair faster. We are weak to Merfolk, Elves and Moon decks, but we can reconfigure the deck to beat that, Talisman's are the way we used to do it. Bant Eldrazi has the best SB in modern imo, it's one of the only reasons I haven't given up on it.
Racerxen,
I'm glad to hear you had recent success with the deck. I agree that we have access to a very strong sideboard. In the last week, I played in two modern events and took 1st place in one of them, and split for first place in the other. I tried out matter reshaper this week for the first time in a very long time. Every time I cast him, it felt underwhelming. I support your decision on cutting him from the deck completely. On a separate note, I have tested negate as a 1 of in my sideboard and the card has over performed. The fifth counter spell in my sideboard had saved me multiple times against combo decks. Cards I recall countering were living end, gifts ungiven, and cryptic command.
As for your ponza experience, I have played a lot of games against the match up and I can tell you it's a tough match up, but we can win against the deck. Fetching can be challenging because you can't just fetch for your basics because they will stone rain them. I typically try and plan my fetch lands to be available to fetch in response to a resolving blood moon. They can't stone rain a fetch land profitably so they are valuable in the match up. If I draw any basics throughout the game, I keep them in my hand for as long as possible until I would miss a land drop (if I had enough land, sometimes I would even forgo playing my land drop to keep the basic in my hand and available)
Also depending on your sideboard, you have a lot to bring in for the match up.
I board in 2 disdainful stroke, 1 negate, 2 stubborn denial, and a reclamation sage (or natural state). In particular stubborn denial is very good when your on the draw against green red ponza. If they are on the play, they can blood moon on there turn two which means you were able to play exactly 1 land before they turn all your lands to mountains. Being able to deny that can be very strong. (Note there is a situation where they can tap for 4 mana turn 2, in which case stubborn denial wouldn't work, but that is their nut draw)
Engineered explosives can be really good in this match up as well because it hits there early ramp (arbor elf utopia sprawl.) you can also set engineered explosives on 3 before blood moon hits the field. And sometimes post blood moon, you can still set EE on 3 by tapping one of your lands for red mana)
Also I have been trying two leyline of sanctity in my sideboard, and am unsure if it's a good card for us right now. It's a powerful card against death shadow, storm, burn, scapeshift, ad nausum, abzan
And lanturn. However, it only has a 22.15% chance of being in the opening hand. And if it's not in the opening hand, it costs 4 mana.
I've been thinking that runed halo may be a better option, as it can name a card in any deck and give us protection from problematic cards. ( valikut, grapeshot, lightning storm,....there is a ton of targets for the card.) thoughts?
There is an undefeated Bant Eldrazi list at SCG open, it has Reshaper's in it's main. The final match of the day was the Bant Eldrazi vs Eldrazi Tron Mirror, and it's was super close. In the end Drowner of Hope came down and locked down a Smasher (equipped with a Collar) ftw.
My meta may be a little rough towards Bant, but if Thursday was an indication of the decks power level, it's high.
Edited to add:
Results from Tonight's LGS Modern:
3-1 again!
R1) Vs B/R Aggro/Pack Rat w/ Bloodmoon 2-0 Win
Ran him over, did Bant Eldrazi things, curve 3-4-5, and smashed
R2) Vs Valakut 1-2 Loss
learned a lot, G2 was decided by Drowner tapping down his Titan, and G3 I wasn't fast enough to get a 4 powered Eldrazi down and hold up Stubborn Denial. This match up is bad, but not unwinnable.
R3) Vs 8 whack 2-0 Win
so..g1 he went off, but I landed early Matter Reshaper's, and stalled his ground game. EE came down and cleared his board both games.
R4) Vs Esper Control 2-0 Win
Good friend on sweet deck designed to dunk on storm and creature decks that are not Eldrazi. He did beat Storm and Valakut, but he got paired down and well, I landed T3 TKS, T4 Tks, and yeah... G2, he spreading seas all my C sources but I was able to deploy threats and pressure him. Matter Reshaper was an all star; Flipping over Spawners and replacing itself all night.
I have been against Reshaper but there are meta's where it can shine. The store I played at tonight was a good meta for the deck.
I was definitely rooting for the Bant Eldrazi player with the 9-0 record on day one. Sadly, after day two, the Bant Eldrazi players list didn't get posted because it wasn't in the top 32. Also, I am happy to hear your success in your recent modern event. I have been on a bit of a hot streak myself. The last 3 weeks, I have either taken first, or split for first. While I lost a game here and there, I won all the following matches. (or split) week 1
match 1: Black White tokens
match 2: Scapeshift
match 3: Storm
match 4: grixus control (not death shadow)
Week 2:
match 1: Skred Red with rabblemaster
match 2: Living End
match 3: Jeskai Control
match 4: Counters combo ----split and avoided the bad match up.
Tonight
Match 1: Bogels
Match 2: Abzan Flayer
Match 3: Death Shadow
Match 4: Death Shadow (split, then played it out and won)
This deck consistently feels great, and its a ton of fun to turn your creatures sideways
I will possibly be doing the same thing in standard with Dinosaurs. They are shockingly similar. Some cards are almost word for word cards we play in Eldrazi. (Commune with Dinosaurs, Charging Monstrosaur, Unclaimed Territory.)
The Bant Eldrazi player that was 9-0 after day 1 was Travis Williams. This is his decklist from an IQ about a month ago, I'm assuming his list was very close if not the exact same as this: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/737738#paper
The only changes to his sideboard, since they showed that on stream, was -1 celestial purge +1 negate. I'll be running a very similar list at an IQ on the 7th; I've been prepping for this for a while so hopefully I'll do well!
This is a video on SCG VS of Todd Stevens vs. Brad Nelson (Bant Eldrazi vs. Titanshift, respectively)! Let's get this thread going again, it seems so dead. Unless there's a Bant Eldrazi discord everyone uses that I don't know about. Anyways, happy Smashing!
It's probably a fair assumption that his list hasn't changed very much.
Also, it is very much appreciated that you pointed out there was a recent vs series with bant eldrazi. I somehow didn't know it existed until I read your comment about it.
I know it's still a ways away, but best of luck in your event, and I look forward to hear about your experiance and what match ups you face. I am going to a PTTQ on the 30th, and hope to do well with my list as well.
Also, I'd be interested to hear Pokémontrainer17707's current thoughts on leyline of sanctity, as I have been playing it based on his recommendation. No need to reiterate yourself as to why you have had it in your sideboard, but I would like to know if it has stayed in your sideboard since you last posted about it, or have you replaced the card with something else?
has anybody tried Geist of Saint Traft? I'm thinking of replacing the 4 flex slots which is occupied by Spawner/Reshaper? I was testing and now we have 2 bombs on turn 2, geist or TKS...
I also cutoff 2 talisman of progress for 2 birds to be more consistent with my curve.
since i have geist, i removed EE/Witness slots and replaced with stubborn, basically to protect geist or TKS and then smash!
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MODERN
Tron variants
Eldrazi variants
Burn
Infect
Living End
Bloodwalkers
RG Ponza
I think the Geist of saint traft is creative. Personally I'd rather just run eldrazi. By running 5 mana dorks and 4 eldrazi temples, it means that you have a total of 9 ways to jump the curve. If you put cards in that aren't eldrazi, you have to have a mana dork, to get him out turn two. Plus I think our creatures are big enough that the Geist doesn't really speed us up. With thought knot and smasher, they can usually just turn sideways and outclass any blocker.
With Geist, you have to clear a path for him so he can attack. Seems a bit against our stategy. But that's just my opinion. If he has been working out for you, I say continue playing it.
Tcobrahi,
My current list is
1 bird of paradise
4 noble heirarch
4 skyspawner
4 displacer
1 matter reshaper
4 thought knot seer
4 smasher
4 drowner
Sideboard
3 stony silence
2 Rest In Peace
2 leyline of sanctity
2 grafdigger cage
2 stubborn denial
2 disdainful stroke
1 negate
1 natural state
Things I would like but don't currently have room for
2 blessed alliance
1 additional artifact/ enchantment removal
1 worship
A 3rd Rest In Peace
.......Updated to reflect tonight's modern event.......
(Not sure if people get tired of hearing about small modern event updates, but since there hasn't been much activity on this forum as of late, I figured I'd post about it)
Match one: Burn 2-0 win
Unconventional list in that it played 4 deflecting palms mainboard. I thought knotted to see he had two in hand when I was at 8 life. I took one, and then had to pass a few turns before drawing a path to exile. By the time I was ready to attack I had two smashers and a thought knot on board. I swing the team and he deflecting palmed my smasher, so I responded by path to exiling my own smasher, and proceeded to close out the game.
Match two: green white value town 1-1-1 draw
Had proven to be a tough match up. Very grindy all three games. I had to really use all my cards in hand to win game one. I had to Engineered Explosives on 0 to kill two voice of resurgence tokens that were currently 5/5s, tap down Azusa and a courser with drowner of hope tokens, and then pathed a bird so I could swing for lethal. Game two I lost, and game three we timed out. The board State suggested that if there were more turns I could have closed the third game out.
Match three: bant knightfall 0-2 lose
Also a very grindy match up. Lost the match, and Not a whole lot to say about the match except for gavony township plus a collected company into two tireless trackers overrunning me in a game. And in the second game, I had to mulligan to 5, and then proceeded to stumble on mana. Despite my stumble, engineered explosives kept me alive longer than I would have expected.
Match 4: grixus control 2-0 win
Both games cavern of souls ruined his day. Ended up being a quick 2-0 win.
My list is -1 Skyspawner, -2 Engineered Explosives, -1 Forest, +2 Matter Reshaper, +1 Dismember, +1 Cavern of Souls form yours. So still very similar! I've been dying to test Rhonas in my list, and I'll probably cut a Reshaper for it. How have leylines been for you? And what matchups do you bring them in against?
How do you feel about that many EE's? I play one because I only own one, but I wonder if it's a card you want to see every game/multiple times a game. Apologies about all the questions, but looking forward to your replies!
Also, I'm all about small event/fnm reports. I love reading about how different people go about different matchups. It's also a good discussion starter.
I don't think I have had the opportunity to play my Leylines enough to decide if I think they are worth the slots in the sideboard. The match ups where I would bring them in include hand distruption decks such as Grixus Death Shadow, Abzan, and Jund and combo decks such as Ad Nausum, Titanshift, Storm, Burn, and Lantern Control.
Considering that I feel most of my loses with Bant Eldrazi come from opposing combo decks, Leyline seems like a reasonable card to have in the sideboard. If you consider what that meta game looks like right now, (based on mtggoldfish.com) it's even more enticing. The most played decks right now via the website are Eldrazi Tron, Grixus shadow, Titanshift, Storm, Burn, Affinity, and Abzan. 5 out of 7 of those I would sideboard in Leyline.
I have had a few people point out the strength of Leyline against hand disruption decks such as Shadow, Abzan, and Jund. While it seems very good against them if I have it in my opening hand, it seems like I wouldn't want to draw it at any point in the game if it wasn't in my opening 7 . It seems that by the time I hard cast Leyline, they have already ripped my hand apart with Thoughtsieze and Inquision. In which case I would need threats, not a Leyline that wanted to show up late to the party. I currently have mixed thoughts of Leylines utility in hand disruption decks, more in favor that its correct to bring them in.
As for Engineered Explosives, I wouldn't play a list that ran less than 2 main board. I personally am a big advocate of 3 Main board because it is very strong in a lot of match ups, in particular some of our bad match ups. (Elves, Merfolk, Green White Value Town, Bant Knightfall, Counters combo, Lanturn, and even Storm).
It is Great against Death shadow, as you can preemptively play it on 1, and then you don't care if your opponent has stubborn denial. Yes they can Kolaghans command it, but that is usually a two of in Shadow lists. I would rather try and dodge two Kolhagans command than 4 thoughtseize, 2-4 Inquisitions, and 4 stubborn denials.
Other match ups I have found Engineered Explosives to be very good are Affinity, Abzan, Eldrazi and Taxes, Death and Taxes, Blood Moon and Ensnaring bridge decks (main board answer to very problematic cards) Bogles, Jund, any token strategy deck, and Infect. I have even found uses for it in seemingly terrible match ups for the card, such as Titanshift, blowing up a Prismatic Omen, buying me enough time to win the game.
I played a PPTQ this past weekend and went 3-3. I could've played better and gotten into top 8 with my breakers, but I punted HARD when I was x-2 against Kiki Chor (A deck that I have played against 2x in the last year). That said, my 2 losses came against titanshift which were...expected but come with a lesson. A friend took Bant Eldrazi to X-2 and missed top 8, so the deck is fine/ very viable.
Before readjusting my SB I went all in on RIP and regretted that decision against Kiki Chord (With Eldritch Evolution). Grafdigger's cage is a must for the deck; It is too important to leave out right now. My wins came against:
That Kiki chord misplay happened when I jumped the gun to path the angel and realized a mere seconds afterwards that I needed to time it in response Kiki's activation/tap ability. I tilted hard and spiraled down hill from there. The next game I got stuck on 3 lands and feel behind.
Vs, DS variants, we are so favored. It's one of the main reasons to play the deck, and I think the meta has improved our position:
Vs Eldrazi Tron Favored (I really think our curve out is more consistent then theirs)
Vs Grixis Deathshadow Favored
Vs Burn 50/50, Matter Reshaper greatly increases our win % G1. Game's 2-3 are 50/50
Vs Affinity Favored! EE is huge and so is Spawner
Vs Abzan Favored
Vs Jeskai Control/Midrange Favored (this deck is no delver)
Vs Jund Favored
Vs Eldrazi Taxes , whatever, we are faster and more consistent then they are
Unfavorable:
TitanShift Bad..mucho bad
U/R Storm Bd, but it improves after SB
Ad Naus (not a huge part of the meta anymore, U/R Storm is faster)
U/W Is tough, they have quite a few decent answers but it's not terrible (but not great)
Merfolk (MEH)
Elves ( MEH MEH)
Counters Company (You need to curve and have removal)
Living End (Talk about BAD)
Every deck has good and bad match ups, but as the format stands the deck is fine. We can T3 TKS very consistently and can T2 TKS better than Eldrazi Tron. We may not have the late game power that the tron lands provide but we get Stirrings and EE, + Path's to disrupt early. The nature of the deck is to be a little weak to combo G1, but we can tailor the counter suite and Sb package to adjust. That's the allure of Bant Eldrazi for me.
On Engineered Explosives, Bant Drazi is hands down the best home for this card. If you want to have a chance against Elves/affinity/Merfolk, or the goyf decks, run this card. It's a house.
Lesson's learned against Titanshift:
1) You Can't Control them, and any permission you bring in is to slow them down
2) You must curve out, I took a G1 win (Yes a G1 Win) buy going T2 Displacer, T3 TKS, T4 Smasher, T6 drowner. I invalidated their Titan and sung past his tappened titan ftw. Mistakes were done during the SB process and in misunderstanding my role in the match up. We are the beat down, not the control deck. I tried boarding 6 Permission spells and quickly found that that was a huge mistake. You gotta clock them.
3) They top deck better than you.
4) Mulligan Slow hands.
Against Valakut I usually board in 2 Stubborn Denials, 2 Disdainful strokes, 1 Negate, and 2 Leyline of sanctity. I board out all 3 of my Engineered Explosives, 1 Matter Reshaper, and 3 Drowner of Hope. I could see boarding out some number of Path to Exiles instead of 3 of my Drowners. Mana acceleration, Displacer, Skyspawner, Thought Knot and Smasher feel too important to cut, so the only viable thing to cut is Drowner because I may not even get the chance to cast him.
I was looking at a list that made top 32 out of 329 players. (MTGO PTQ)..... https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/bant-eldrazi .....(Coert's list)
Has this community given any more thought to Nissa, Steward of Elements? Initially, I was a hard no on this card, because I thought Nissa, Vital Force was strictly better for us because it was a pseudo Smasher #5, with possible card draw engine attached. Even that Nissa never made the cut for my list longer than a week. I currently have a 1 of Matter Reshaper in my list that I have not been impressed with. I was looking to replace him, and recalled the potential 3 mana Planeswalker for us. +2 Scry 2 seems decent. After you have scryed your next draw step and the card after, next turn you can draw your card and then 0 nissa putting to top card of your library which you had just scryed the turn before straight to the battlefield. (assuming it was a creature.) By turn 4, Nissa could potentially be putting Uncounterable Reality Smashers into play from the top of your deck. What does this community think? ( I believe that's how it works. A card that is "put" onto the battlefield can't be countered....correct me if i'm wrong)
However, I have no idea when this card would over perform and under perform.
Id say that cutting Drowners vs Valakut should be avoided - keep all 4 of them in - they are vital to tapping down Titan. path is still ok - just remember to Path Titan in response to the ETB trigger - cutting some may be ok..
I really dont like PWs in Bant Eldrazi. If for some reason you have a really grindy meta - then perhaps - but I think id still go for more Reshapers. For me the biggest issue is deck going under us - like and combo - id rather sure up those areas before worrying about grinding ppl out..
My thing at the moment is goin back to playing Chalice in the SB - it helps with so many difficult matchups and can also help against decks with heavy amounts of removal - chalice on 1 - stop paths, pushes, bolts etc..
My decklist is posted a few posts ago. It doesn't feel great cutting the Drowners, but I really don't know what else to cut. My current list has 7 cards to board in against Scapeshift. I board out 3 engineered explosives, 1 Reshaper, and have to make 3 more cuts. I usually have found myself cutting Drowners. I know tapping down Titan can be great, but its also the card I may never get a chance to cast in the match up.
As for Nissa, I think you are likely correct in saying that Planeswalkers are not right for our deck. It doesn't help us against our tough match ups such as combo. Chalice is probably worth the consideration, but it seems like its only something you would bring in if you can chalice on exactly 1. It seems like trying to play it on any other number would be way to late in the game to be impactful. What match ups do you bring it in against? also, how many do you run in the sideboard?
A for My Tuesday night modern event update, I got taken to the cleaners tonight. Record was 1-2-1
match 1: Burn. game 1 lose. game 2, I mulliganed to 5 and won. I don't remember my exact hand, but I Had smasher, basic forest, stirrings, eldrazi temple, and something else. I top decked a second eldrazi temple the turn I needed it to play smasher on turn 3. and some how it was enough to get me there. game 3: I mulliganed to 6. My hand was Cavern of Souls, Engineered Explosives, Stirrings, Skyspawner Thought Knot, and Leyline of Sanctity. I began the game with Leyline on the field, and it really set him back. he had a creature light hand, and his most relevant plays were attacking me with swift spear and giving it double strike with Boros Charm and hitting me for 4 damage. he did this two turns in a row. I stumbled on mana for a few turns, as i had kept a 1 lander. I eventually won game 3.
Match 2: Elves game 1: Not much to say about this match up except that I got overran. game 2: I boarded in both my grafdigger's cages, drew both of them, played both of them, had both of them blown up via reclamation sage, and he proceeded to collected company into double Elvish Archdruid.
Match 3: Valakut game 1: I had 3 thought knots in hand 4 lands and 0 ramp. I was hoping to draw into a temple or bird to accelerate the Thought knots out. I played a turn 4 thought knot, passed turn and died. Game 2: I slowed him down with a thought knot seer, but he was able to bolt it down with valakut triggers, and we eventually made it to late game. He used Beast within on my reality smasher, discarding natures claim. the next turn I played Leyline and bought myself several turns. He eventually used summoners pact for titan and started the beats. I awkwardly displaced the titan once to save myself 6 points of life because valakut couldn't target me with leyline. Eventually I played a second leyline. A few turns later, I looked at him and asked, "Did you ever pay for your pact trigger?" he looks at me like 0_0. He immediatley picked up his cards and we went to game three. Game 3: I Had multiple thought knots in hand, but every time I casted one, he killed it Drawing another card. I didnt see any counter magic in either sideboarded game, and lost fairly quickly.
Match 4: Jeskia Control with Spell Quellers Game 1: Mulliganed to 5, and his 7 cards out resourced my 5 Game 2: I eventually landed a second Drowner of hope, to be able to tap down a Colonade if he tried to block with it and won the game. Game 3: spell quellered my first thought knot seer, and i was paranoid to play my second one in hand. he had spell queller and colonade putting a fast clock on me. I top decked back to back path to exiles, to kill the treats. never really drew another threat and ended in a draw while i had negate, disdainful stroke and stubborn denial in hand.
Yes, the Matches I've won against Titan have all involved an on board Drowner of Hope. Path is okay, I think cutting 1 is fine, the most impactful cards are TKS, Drowner and Smasher. The 3 drops are just there to pressure, holding up permission = a losing position if you are unable to deploy threats.
chalice on 2 is great for our deck since we have 0 2 drops in the main, and run RIP out of the SB. The deck goes 1-3, and is set up to do so. Chalice may be our go to answer to combo. It was done before, and it's one of the reasons Eldrazi Tron is so successful.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
hello all fist time poster here in the bant eldrazi side. i have been playing titan shift for almost two years and have started play bant eldrazi over the past two months. my advise for beating the titan shift match up is to control their draws with displayser+TKS and attacking every turn for seven. drowner of hope is good but the damage is done once the titan gets the lands.
other thoughts on this deck. i would really like to test one copy of tamiyo the field researcher in the main. i think she really fits into what this deck is trying to do. the +1 is great for getting ahead in the creature grind fights and the -2 is great for clearing blockers and saving yourself if things get out of hand.
No.
I believe i'll take this list to GP (with slight changes):
UG Eldrazi
Green @ it's best
Matches:
R1) Grixis Deathshadow 2-0 (I have lost to this deck 1x since it became popular) Win
SB: Out -4 Reality Smasher,
In: +1 Engineered Explosives, +3 Rest In Peace
Yeah this match up is very favorable, and when Bant Eldrazi Draws it's temples in the opening 7 the deck's great.
Note: Smasher is terribad here, it will never get through DS, and you have better threats than Smasher here, Drowner, TKS and Displacer win this match up. Skyspawner is also an MVP. We top deck better, WAY better.
R2) Abzan/Junk 2-1 Win
SB: Out: -1 Reality Smasher, -3 Matter Reshaper
In: +1 Engineered Explosives, +3 Rest in Peace
Very Grindy match up, EE was my MVP, it takes care of their most potent threats and forces opponents into keeping threats back. Smasher can get outclassed by Gofy and Scooze so I board 1 out, and reshaper is pretty lack luster here. My other argument was it's non bo with RIP, so I cut them. (I think it's best to just cut them from my list altogether now). This match up is favorable.
Note: A + for Ghost Quarter, I didn't have access to a W G3, and I GQ one of my own Temples to get a basic Plains. I untap cast Displacer, blink his blocker and Tap his other block down and swing past his Lili for lethal. It's plays like this that remind me of how important deck mastery is.
R3) Vs R/G Ponza 0-2 LOL Whatever lol
The guy who runs this deck is a very nice dude, he just happens to love Blood Moon and I happen to hate playing against that card since the decks I run get wrecked by it. G1, T2 Moon, G3, T3 Moon GG.
I've been thinking about running 2 Talisman of Progress again, Moon decks are coming back to combat Valakut, and this was one way Bant Eldrazi got around this. It's worth it and I may revert back to that style of build.
R4) Vs Mono Red Tron 2-0 Win (dude was trying a super spicey list)
It didn't matter what he was trying to do, the deck did T2 TKS in 2x Smasher G1. G2 T3 Tks, T4 TKS, hold up Stubborn Denial, counter his Expedition Map, Path his wurmcoil and T5 Smasher for the win.
When this deck draws Eldrazi Temple, it's great. It is very good against fair decks and I think it's good against Tron Variants. I'm in the camp that Bant Eldrazi beats Eldrazi Tron. That's me, though, I have SB plan for it and we are just a hair faster. We are weak to Merfolk, Elves and Moon decks, but we can reconfigure the deck to beat that, Talisman's are the way we used to do it. Bant Eldrazi has the best SB in modern imo, it's one of the only reasons I haven't given up on it.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
I'm glad to hear you had recent success with the deck. I agree that we have access to a very strong sideboard. In the last week, I played in two modern events and took 1st place in one of them, and split for first place in the other. I tried out matter reshaper this week for the first time in a very long time. Every time I cast him, it felt underwhelming. I support your decision on cutting him from the deck completely. On a separate note, I have tested negate as a 1 of in my sideboard and the card has over performed. The fifth counter spell in my sideboard had saved me multiple times against combo decks. Cards I recall countering were living end, gifts ungiven, and cryptic command.
As for your ponza experience, I have played a lot of games against the match up and I can tell you it's a tough match up, but we can win against the deck. Fetching can be challenging because you can't just fetch for your basics because they will stone rain them. I typically try and plan my fetch lands to be available to fetch in response to a resolving blood moon. They can't stone rain a fetch land profitably so they are valuable in the match up. If I draw any basics throughout the game, I keep them in my hand for as long as possible until I would miss a land drop (if I had enough land, sometimes I would even forgo playing my land drop to keep the basic in my hand and available)
Also depending on your sideboard, you have a lot to bring in for the match up.
I board in 2 disdainful stroke, 1 negate, 2 stubborn denial, and a reclamation sage (or natural state). In particular stubborn denial is very good when your on the draw against green red ponza. If they are on the play, they can blood moon on there turn two which means you were able to play exactly 1 land before they turn all your lands to mountains. Being able to deny that can be very strong. (Note there is a situation where they can tap for 4 mana turn 2, in which case stubborn denial wouldn't work, but that is their nut draw)
Engineered explosives can be really good in this match up as well because it hits there early ramp (arbor elf utopia sprawl.) you can also set engineered explosives on 3 before blood moon hits the field. And sometimes post blood moon, you can still set EE on 3 by tapping one of your lands for red mana)
Also I have been trying two leyline of sanctity in my sideboard, and am unsure if it's a good card for us right now. It's a powerful card against death shadow, storm, burn, scapeshift, ad nausum, abzan
And lanturn. However, it only has a 22.15% chance of being in the opening hand. And if it's not in the opening hand, it costs 4 mana.
I've been thinking that runed halo may be a better option, as it can name a card in any deck and give us protection from problematic cards. ( valikut, grapeshot, lightning storm,....there is a ton of targets for the card.) thoughts?
My meta may be a little rough towards Bant, but if Thursday was an indication of the decks power level, it's high.
Edited to add:
Results from Tonight's LGS Modern:
3-1 again!
R1) Vs B/R Aggro/Pack Rat w/ Bloodmoon 2-0 Win
Ran him over, did Bant Eldrazi things, curve 3-4-5, and smashed
R2) Vs Valakut 1-2 Loss
learned a lot, G2 was decided by Drowner tapping down his Titan, and G3 I wasn't fast enough to get a 4 powered Eldrazi down and hold up Stubborn Denial. This match up is bad, but not unwinnable.
R3) Vs 8 whack 2-0 Win
so..g1 he went off, but I landed early Matter Reshaper's, and stalled his ground game. EE came down and cleared his board both games.
R4) Vs Esper Control 2-0 Win
Good friend on sweet deck designed to dunk on storm and creature decks that are not Eldrazi. He did beat Storm and Valakut, but he got paired down and well, I landed T3 TKS, T4 Tks, and yeah... G2, he spreading seas all my C sources but I was able to deploy threats and pressure him. Matter Reshaper was an all star; Flipping over Spawners and replacing itself all night.
I have been against Reshaper but there are meta's where it can shine. The store I played at tonight was a good meta for the deck.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
week 1
match 1: Black White tokens
match 2: Scapeshift
match 3: Storm
match 4: grixus control (not death shadow)
Week 2:
match 1: Skred Red with rabblemaster
match 2: Living End
match 3: Jeskai Control
match 4: Counters combo ----split and avoided the bad match up.
Tonight
Match 1: Bogels
Match 2: Abzan Flayer
Match 3: Death Shadow
Match 4: Death Shadow (split, then played it out and won)
This deck consistently feels great, and its a ton of fun to turn your creatures sideways
I will possibly be doing the same thing in standard with Dinosaurs. They are shockingly similar. Some cards are almost word for word cards we play in Eldrazi. (Commune with Dinosaurs, Charging Monstrosaur, Unclaimed Territory.)
The only changes to his sideboard, since they showed that on stream, was -1 celestial purge +1 negate. I'll be running a very similar list at an IQ on the 7th; I've been prepping for this for a while so hopefully I'll do well!
This is a video on SCG VS of Todd Stevens vs. Brad Nelson (Bant Eldrazi vs. Titanshift, respectively)! Let's get this thread going again, it seems so dead. Unless there's a Bant Eldrazi discord everyone uses that I don't know about. Anyways, happy Smashing!
Also, it is very much appreciated that you pointed out there was a recent vs series with bant eldrazi. I somehow didn't know it existed until I read your comment about it.
I know it's still a ways away, but best of luck in your event, and I look forward to hear about your experiance and what match ups you face. I am going to a PTTQ on the 30th, and hope to do well with my list as well.
Also, I'd be interested to hear Pokémontrainer17707's current thoughts on leyline of sanctity, as I have been playing it based on his recommendation. No need to reiterate yourself as to why you have had it in your sideboard, but I would like to know if it has stayed in your sideboard since you last posted about it, or have you replaced the card with something else?
I also cutoff 2 talisman of progress for 2 birds to be more consistent with my curve.
since i have geist, i removed EE/Witness slots and replaced with stubborn, basically to protect geist or TKS and then smash!
Tron variants
Eldrazi variants
Burn
Infect
Living End
Bloodwalkers
RG Ponza
LEGACY
Turbo Depths
Big Eldrazi
With Geist, you have to clear a path for him so he can attack. Seems a bit against our stategy. But that's just my opinion. If he has been working out for you, I say continue playing it.
Tcobrahi,
My current list is
1 bird of paradise
4 noble heirarch
4 skyspawner
4 displacer
1 matter reshaper
4 thought knot seer
4 smasher
4 drowner
3 Engineered Explosives
4 path
4 ancient stirring
4 eldrazi temple
4 windswept heath
3 cavern
3 brushland
3 yavimaya coast
1 hallowed fountain
1 temple garden
1 breeding pool
2 forest
1 plains
Sideboard
3 stony silence
2 Rest In Peace
2 leyline of sanctity
2 grafdigger cage
2 stubborn denial
2 disdainful stroke
1 negate
1 natural state
Things I would like but don't currently have room for
2 blessed alliance
1 additional artifact/ enchantment removal
1 worship
A 3rd Rest In Peace
.......Updated to reflect tonight's modern event.......
(Not sure if people get tired of hearing about small modern event updates, but since there hasn't been much activity on this forum as of late, I figured I'd post about it)
Match one: Burn 2-0 win
Unconventional list in that it played 4 deflecting palms mainboard. I thought knotted to see he had two in hand when I was at 8 life. I took one, and then had to pass a few turns before drawing a path to exile. By the time I was ready to attack I had two smashers and a thought knot on board. I swing the team and he deflecting palmed my smasher, so I responded by path to exiling my own smasher, and proceeded to close out the game.
Match two: green white value town 1-1-1 draw
Had proven to be a tough match up. Very grindy all three games. I had to really use all my cards in hand to win game one. I had to Engineered Explosives on 0 to kill two voice of resurgence tokens that were currently 5/5s, tap down Azusa and a courser with drowner of hope tokens, and then pathed a bird so I could swing for lethal. Game two I lost, and game three we timed out. The board State suggested that if there were more turns I could have closed the third game out.
Match three: bant knightfall 0-2 lose
Also a very grindy match up. Lost the match, and Not a whole lot to say about the match except for gavony township plus a collected company into two tireless trackers overrunning me in a game. And in the second game, I had to mulligan to 5, and then proceeded to stumble on mana. Despite my stumble, engineered explosives kept me alive longer than I would have expected.
Match 4: grixus control 2-0 win
Both games cavern of souls ruined his day. Ended up being a quick 2-0 win.
How do you feel about that many EE's? I play one because I only own one, but I wonder if it's a card you want to see every game/multiple times a game. Apologies about all the questions, but looking forward to your replies!
Also, I'm all about small event/fnm reports. I love reading about how different people go about different matchups. It's also a good discussion starter.
Considering that I feel most of my loses with Bant Eldrazi come from opposing combo decks, Leyline seems like a reasonable card to have in the sideboard. If you consider what that meta game looks like right now, (based on mtggoldfish.com) it's even more enticing. The most played decks right now via the website are Eldrazi Tron, Grixus shadow, Titanshift, Storm, Burn, Affinity, and Abzan. 5 out of 7 of those I would sideboard in Leyline.
I have had a few people point out the strength of Leyline against hand disruption decks such as Shadow, Abzan, and Jund. While it seems very good against them if I have it in my opening hand, it seems like I wouldn't want to draw it at any point in the game if it wasn't in my opening 7 . It seems that by the time I hard cast Leyline, they have already ripped my hand apart with Thoughtsieze and Inquision. In which case I would need threats, not a Leyline that wanted to show up late to the party. I currently have mixed thoughts of Leylines utility in hand disruption decks, more in favor that its correct to bring them in.
As for Engineered Explosives, I wouldn't play a list that ran less than 2 main board. I personally am a big advocate of 3 Main board because it is very strong in a lot of match ups, in particular some of our bad match ups. (Elves, Merfolk, Green White Value Town, Bant Knightfall, Counters combo, Lanturn, and even Storm).
It is Great against Death shadow, as you can preemptively play it on 1, and then you don't care if your opponent has stubborn denial. Yes they can Kolaghans command it, but that is usually a two of in Shadow lists. I would rather try and dodge two Kolhagans command than 4 thoughtseize, 2-4 Inquisitions, and 4 stubborn denials.
Other match ups I have found Engineered Explosives to be very good are Affinity, Abzan, Eldrazi and Taxes, Death and Taxes, Blood Moon and Ensnaring bridge decks (main board answer to very problematic cards) Bogles, Jund, any token strategy deck, and Infect. I have even found uses for it in seemingly terrible match ups for the card, such as Titanshift, blowing up a Prismatic Omen, buying me enough time to win the game.
Before readjusting my SB I went all in on RIP and regretted that decision against Kiki Chord (With Eldritch Evolution). Grafdigger's cage is a must for the deck; It is too important to leave out right now. My wins came against:
Wins:
Affinity 2-1 Win Favored
Grixis Deathshadow 2-0 Win
Grixis Deathshadow 2-0 Win
Losses:
Titanshift 0-2
Titanshift 1-2
Kiki chord 0-2
That Kiki chord misplay happened when I jumped the gun to path the angel and realized a mere seconds afterwards that I needed to time it in response Kiki's activation/tap ability. I tilted hard and spiraled down hill from there. The next game I got stuck on 3 lands and feel behind.
Vs, DS variants, we are so favored. It's one of the main reasons to play the deck, and I think the meta has improved our position:
Vs Eldrazi Tron Favored (I really think our curve out is more consistent then theirs)
Vs Grixis Deathshadow Favored
Vs Burn 50/50, Matter Reshaper greatly increases our win % G1. Game's 2-3 are 50/50
Vs Affinity Favored! EE is huge and so is Spawner
Vs Abzan Favored
Vs Jeskai Control/Midrange Favored (this deck is no delver)
Vs Jund Favored
Vs Eldrazi Taxes , whatever, we are faster and more consistent then they are
Unfavorable:
TitanShift Bad..mucho bad
U/R Storm Bd, but it improves after SB
Ad Naus (not a huge part of the meta anymore, U/R Storm is faster)
U/W Is tough, they have quite a few decent answers but it's not terrible (but not great)
Merfolk (MEH)
Elves ( MEH MEH)
Counters Company (You need to curve and have removal)
Living End (Talk about BAD)
Every deck has good and bad match ups, but as the format stands the deck is fine. We can T3 TKS very consistently and can T2 TKS better than Eldrazi Tron. We may not have the late game power that the tron lands provide but we get Stirrings and EE, + Path's to disrupt early. The nature of the deck is to be a little weak to combo G1, but we can tailor the counter suite and Sb package to adjust. That's the allure of Bant Eldrazi for me.
On Engineered Explosives, Bant Drazi is hands down the best home for this card. If you want to have a chance against Elves/affinity/Merfolk, or the goyf decks, run this card. It's a house.
Current Build:
1x Breeding Pool
3x Brushland
3x Cavern of Souls
4x Eldrazi Temple
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Plains
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
3x Yavimaya Coast
1x Birds of Paradise
4x Drowner of Hope
4x Eldrazi Displacer
3x Eldrazi Skyspawner
3x Matter Reshaper
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
Instant (4)
4x Path to Exile
Artifact (2)
2x Engineered Explosives
Sorcery (4)
4x Ancient Stirrings
2x Disdainful Stroke
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Natural State
3x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
2x Stubborn Denial
1x Worship
Lesson's learned against Titanshift:
1) You Can't Control them, and any permission you bring in is to slow them down
2) You must curve out, I took a G1 win (Yes a G1 Win) buy going T2 Displacer, T3 TKS, T4 Smasher, T6 drowner. I invalidated their Titan and sung past his tappened titan ftw. Mistakes were done during the SB process and in misunderstanding my role in the match up. We are the beat down, not the control deck. I tried boarding 6 Permission spells and quickly found that that was a huge mistake. You gotta clock them.
3) They top deck better than you.
4) Mulligan Slow hands.
What do you all do against Valakut.dec?
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
I was looking at a list that made top 32 out of 329 players. (MTGO PTQ)..... https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/bant-eldrazi .....(Coert's list)
Has this community given any more thought to Nissa, Steward of Elements? Initially, I was a hard no on this card, because I thought Nissa, Vital Force was strictly better for us because it was a pseudo Smasher #5, with possible card draw engine attached. Even that Nissa never made the cut for my list longer than a week. I currently have a 1 of Matter Reshaper in my list that I have not been impressed with. I was looking to replace him, and recalled the potential 3 mana Planeswalker for us. +2 Scry 2 seems decent. After you have scryed your next draw step and the card after, next turn you can draw your card and then 0 nissa putting to top card of your library which you had just scryed the turn before straight to the battlefield. (assuming it was a creature.) By turn 4, Nissa could potentially be putting Uncounterable Reality Smashers into play from the top of your deck. What does this community think? ( I believe that's how it works. A card that is "put" onto the battlefield can't be countered....correct me if i'm wrong)
However, I have no idea when this card would over perform and under perform.
I'd love to hear everybody's thoughts.
I really dont like PWs in Bant Eldrazi. If for some reason you have a really grindy meta - then perhaps - but I think id still go for more Reshapers. For me the biggest issue is deck going under us - like and combo - id rather sure up those areas before worrying about grinding ppl out..
My thing at the moment is goin back to playing Chalice in the SB - it helps with so many difficult matchups and can also help against decks with heavy amounts of removal - chalice on 1 - stop paths, pushes, bolts etc..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
As for Nissa, I think you are likely correct in saying that Planeswalkers are not right for our deck. It doesn't help us against our tough match ups such as combo. Chalice is probably worth the consideration, but it seems like its only something you would bring in if you can chalice on exactly 1. It seems like trying to play it on any other number would be way to late in the game to be impactful. What match ups do you bring it in against? also, how many do you run in the sideboard?
A for My Tuesday night modern event update, I got taken to the cleaners tonight. Record was 1-2-1
match 1: Burn.
game 1 lose.
game 2, I mulliganed to 5 and won. I don't remember my exact hand, but I Had smasher, basic forest, stirrings, eldrazi temple, and something else. I top decked a second eldrazi temple the turn I needed it to play smasher on turn 3. and some how it was enough to get me there.
game 3: I mulliganed to 6. My hand was Cavern of Souls, Engineered Explosives, Stirrings, Skyspawner Thought Knot, and Leyline of Sanctity. I began the game with Leyline on the field, and it really set him back. he had a creature light hand, and his most relevant plays were attacking me with swift spear and giving it double strike with Boros Charm and hitting me for 4 damage. he did this two turns in a row. I stumbled on mana for a few turns, as i had kept a 1 lander. I eventually won game 3.
Match 2: Elves
game 1: Not much to say about this match up except that I got overran.
game 2: I boarded in both my grafdigger's cages, drew both of them, played both of them, had both of them blown up via reclamation sage, and he proceeded to collected company into double Elvish Archdruid.
Match 3: Valakut
game 1: I had 3 thought knots in hand 4 lands and 0 ramp. I was hoping to draw into a temple or bird to accelerate the Thought knots out. I played a turn 4 thought knot, passed turn and died.
Game 2: I slowed him down with a thought knot seer, but he was able to bolt it down with valakut triggers, and we eventually made it to late game. He used Beast within on my reality smasher, discarding natures claim. the next turn I played Leyline and bought myself several turns. He eventually used summoners pact for titan and started the beats. I awkwardly displaced the titan once to save myself 6 points of life because valakut couldn't target me with leyline. Eventually I played a second leyline. A few turns later, I looked at him and asked, "Did you ever pay for your pact trigger?" he looks at me like 0_0. He immediatley picked up his cards and we went to game three.
Game 3: I Had multiple thought knots in hand, but every time I casted one, he killed it Drawing another card. I didnt see any counter magic in either sideboarded game, and lost fairly quickly.
Match 4: Jeskia Control with Spell Quellers
Game 1: Mulliganed to 5, and his 7 cards out resourced my 5
Game 2: I eventually landed a second Drowner of hope, to be able to tap down a Colonade if he tried to block with it and won the game.
Game 3: spell quellered my first thought knot seer, and i was paranoid to play my second one in hand. he had spell queller and colonade putting a fast clock on me. I top decked back to back path to exiles, to kill the treats. never really drew another threat and ended in a draw while i had negate, disdainful stroke and stubborn denial in hand.
chalice on 2 is great for our deck since we have 0 2 drops in the main, and run RIP out of the SB. The deck goes 1-3, and is set up to do so. Chalice may be our go to answer to combo. It was done before, and it's one of the reasons Eldrazi Tron is so successful.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
other thoughts on this deck. i would really like to test one copy of tamiyo the field researcher in the main. i think she really fits into what this deck is trying to do. the +1 is great for getting ahead in the creature grind fights and the -2 is great for clearing blockers and saving yourself if things get out of hand.
Tron variants
Eldrazi variants
Burn
Infect
Living End
Bloodwalkers
RG Ponza
LEGACY
Turbo Depths
Big Eldrazi