Well, blue moon particularly is a weird matchup that really needs specific sideboarding and game play, but in general we get off the ground faster than control decks since they can't always counter our early onslaught of redundant ramp and we can just kill them with land drops.
Speaking about your blue moon problem, be careful with early fetches, you must have double green through your basics. If you can answer blood moon itself, then you can usually try to proceed with the scapeshift route, if not, you can try to get there with Prime-Times and other threats that you can bring in from the board. I like some number of Baloths and generally swap a scapeshift for an inferno Titan.
Thanks. :). I can't stand everyone over-abbreviating everything. Working in teaching I get enough of that rubbish already haha.
Question about playing against blue decks stands. Also, what about ad nauseam and other similar combo decks?
I've always played the rug version because of the ability to shut down combo and stall out aggro. Playing a aingle-minded valakut combo always seemed to fragile in my mind to interaction from discard or whatever. The lists I'm seeking here are good but still seem soft to those strategies, which is an issue when Jund, affinity and jeskai are amongst the top decks.
I've made a move with my rug deck to include prismatic omen and a couple primeval titans in order to bolster and diversify my win conditions. Omen particularly is insanely powerful.
What do people feel is the better placed deck for the current metagame? Straight RG titan or a spiced up rug list including the extra oomph from omen?
Thanks. :). I can't stand everyone over-abbreviating everything. Working in teaching I get enough of that rubbish already haha.
Question about playing against blue decks stands. Also, what about ad nauseam and other similar combo decks?
I've always played the rug version because of the ability to shut down combo and stall out aggro. Playing a aingle-minded valakut combo always seemed to fragile in my mind to interaction from discard or whatever. The lists I'm seeking here are good but still seem soft to those strategies, which is an issue when Jund, affinity and jeskai are amongst the top decks.
I've made a move with my rug deck to include prismatic omen and a couple primeval titans in order to bolster and diversify my win conditions. Omen particularly is insanely powerful.
What do people feel is the better placed deck for the current metagame? Straight RG titan or a spiced up rug list including the extra oomph from omen?
I think both are fine, it matters more what your play style is. i prefer the RG titan version over rug. if i did play the RUG version i would play surrak dragonclaw in the side.
Great post! I agree with all of the points you make at the end of the post and how you made the calculations (number of ramp spells, titans, etc, Search as a different ramp spell). RG Scapeshift I believe is still the more resilient of the two, mainly due to KHE and Omen. While KHE *can* be a bad draw wile hellbent, it does allow you set up more plays and play valakut control.
I like them, though I think it still needs more testing on my end for an open field. I went inbetween Thrun and Koth for extra threats. Koth also doubles as a Blood Moon threat.
I really had them in there for when I play against Restore Balance at my shop (horrible MU btw, but I did manage to win a few games with this deck), but realized its a fairly resilient card overall.
As someone who actively posted here a few weeks ago w/ videos, resources, and links I just wanted to share with you guys my finish from GP LA (copy and pasted from the other thread):
I achieved an X-2 record day 1 without any byes (my last GP I ended at 7-2 Day 1 w/ 2 byes from a GPT)
R1 - BTL Shift (1-2); got everything countered game 3.
R2 - Jeskai Nahiri (2-0); easy-peasy.
R3 - Company Zoo (2-0); easy-peasy.
R4 - Merfolk (2-1); 3 Lords = dead Bolts for me.
R5 - Jund (2-1); Got stuck on lands G1.
R6 - Burn (2-1); I danced around Deflecting Palm with multiple Valakuts.
R7 - Mono-White Tron (2-0); wtf
R8 - Affinity (0-2); he killed me both games around turns 3 or 4.
R9 - Burn (2-0); I won game 2 I just had 2 Mountains and 3 Valakuts as land. Spellskite and ONE Lightning Bolt bought a lot of time.
DAY 2:
R10 - Affinity (2-0); game 1 he has 4 Nexi in play and I Through the Breach a Hornet Queen and that buys a million turns.
R11 - Bant Eldrazi THIAGO SAPORITO (1-2); game 1 I open busted on ramp via turn 1 Utopia Sprawl, turn 2 Search for Tomorrow, then double Farseek I see NO Pacts/Titans/form of end game. Flood.
R12 - Collected Abzan (2-0); easy-peasy.
R13 - Blue Moon (1-2); Game 2 was was carried via Utopia Sprawl. Game 3 I was stranded with a million green cards but could not peel a basic. He also Remanded Breach 4 times.
R14 - Infect OWEN TURTENWALD (1-2); game 1 he mulls to 5 and I attempt turn 3 Breach, that fails, then I turn 4 Titan. Game 2 I forget to pay for Pact with Melira AND Skite out. Go sleep deprivation. Game 3 I just mis-sequence things.
R15 - DROP, was too tired and hungry to play.
1) sudden shock over lighting bolt. It shoots right past spellskite without issue. Better in the infect and abzan coco match ups. I have not missed bolt sense the switch.
2) keep the farseeks in the deck. Farseek is much better than you think.
3) I have moved away from relic to scav ooze because it can be found with summoners pact.
I have played two crumble to dust and dont plan on taking them out soon.
I am going to try out molten vortex as a one of in the board. The reason for that is infect. I realized we loss to infect because of not having enough removal to keep them down. So what if we turns the 27 land in our deck into 27 shocks against 12 1/1 chreature. It may be trash but I will try it.
Let us know how that goes, because it seems like it could be good.
Also, I have been considering more of a creature based sideboard for Summoner's pact, but it makes me want to go up to 3 pacts. That way I always have 4 'copies' of my sideboard cards. What do you think?
I am going to try out molten vortex as a one of in the board. The reason for that is infect. I realized we loss to infect because of not having enough removal to keep them down. So what if we turns the 27 land in our deck into 27 shocks against 12 1/1 chreature. It may be trash but I will try it.
I 'd be curious to see how this works for you. but how many molten vortex?
hypothetically you'd want life from the loam in addition to vortex strategy.
I am going to try out molten vortex as a one of in the board. The reason for that is infect. I realized we loss to infect because of not having enough removal to keep them down. So what if we turns the 27 land in our deck into 27 shocks against 12 1/1 chreature. It may be trash but I will try it.
I 'd be curious to see how this works for you. but how many molten vortex?
hypothetically you'd want life from the loam in addition to vortex strategy.
using Koth also allows us to have something to do if we choose to run our own blood moon in the sideboard.
Why would we ever want to run a blood moon? In what matchup are we so afraid of our opponents lands that we would destroy our own game plan and make 12 main deck cards almost useless instead relying on one fragile planes walker?
I'm not saying Koth is trash, just that ever running a blood moon of our own is unless you want a transformational sideboard into R/G through the breach enrakul titan. Which seems silly
I am going to try out molten vortex as a one of in the board. The reason for that is infect. I realized we loss to infect because of not having enough removal to keep them down. So what if we turns the 27 land in our deck into 27 shocks against 12 1/1 chreature. It may be trash but I will try it.
I 'd be curious to see how this works for you. but how many molten vortex?
hypothetically you'd want life from the loam in addition to vortex strategy.
using Koth also allows us to have something to do if we choose to run our own blood moon in the sideboard.
Why would we ever want to run a blood moon? In what matchup are we so afraid of our opponents lands that we would destroy our own game plan and make 12 main deck cards almost useless instead relying on one fragile planes walker?
I'm not saying Koth is trash, just that ever running a blood moon of our own is unless you want a transformational sideboard into R/G through the breach enrakul titan. Which seems silly
I agree, when do WE play blood moon in our side? it's so against our own game plan.
I've had a good deal of success against control decks (Grixis and UWR namely). My approach is to get in a position where land drops make the kill. That way, most of your draws are very live. Omen is good in the Grixis matchup as there is no real way to get it off the table. UWR has access to wear/tear and can Cryptic bounce it, but that's it really. Both decks can Crumble to Dust you, so that's something to be aware of. If you cast Scapeshift, leave your 3 extra mana open. It getting countered it fine if they burn 2 spells doing it.
I think a lot of it comes down to whether they have pressure or not. If not, you can sit back and run your stuff into counters all day since the goal is to set up Valakut.
I usually bring in the threats like Baloth and Titan/Koth/Thrun to keep pressuring counterspells, and don't have a specific SB card for control. Thrun was the goto card for a while, and worked pretty well.
I saw someone using Dragonlord Dromoka but doesent she just cost you your turn and die to Path or Terminate?
What would you recmomend?
2) How do you play vs Control? Do you play around manaleak and let them slowly exaust their Remands an Cryptics until either you are out of threats or they are out of answers?
Would you play Valakuts in the control matchup to slowly bolt your opponent down with lands even if he might have brought in Crumble to dust?
I put two Geas's Revenge in my SB now because of the uptick in control decks. but the game plan is just keep running out things until they run out of counters.
we play off the top of our decks very well for the most part, do play the Valakut and just make land drops if you have to. interact with them in every way you can.
right now i think Geas's Revenge is the best SB card for blue decks because it wins the game. Ricochet Trap,Guttural Response, and Autumn's Veil are okay but they can be stopped with a second counter spell like Negate which often comes in against us. Thrun, the last troll does not have haste and has vary small stats, a big goyf or other x/5 creatures get in the way to easily. Gaea's Revenge is big,can't be stopped, can't be killed with most removal, and can be found with pact.
Speaking about your blue moon problem, be careful with early fetches, you must have double green through your basics. If you can answer blood moon itself, then you can usually try to proceed with the scapeshift route, if not, you can try to get there with Prime-Times and other threats that you can bring in from the board. I like some number of Baloths and generally swap a scapeshift for an inferno Titan.
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
what on earth is GDD?
Thanks. :). I can't stand everyone over-abbreviating everything. Working in teaching I get enough of that rubbish already haha.
Question about playing against blue decks stands. Also, what about ad nauseam and other similar combo decks?
I've always played the rug version because of the ability to shut down combo and stall out aggro. Playing a aingle-minded valakut combo always seemed to fragile in my mind to interaction from discard or whatever. The lists I'm seeking here are good but still seem soft to those strategies, which is an issue when Jund, affinity and jeskai are amongst the top decks.
I've made a move with my rug deck to include prismatic omen and a couple primeval titans in order to bolster and diversify my win conditions. Omen particularly is insanely powerful.
What do people feel is the better placed deck for the current metagame? Straight RG titan or a spiced up rug list including the extra oomph from omen?
I think both are fine, it matters more what your play style is. i prefer the RG titan version over rug. if i did play the RUG version i would play surrak dragonclaw in the side.
Fetch-Shock-Blog
Moderator of /r/Scapeshift
I really had them in there for when I play against Restore Balance at my shop (horrible MU btw, but I did manage to win a few games with this deck), but realized its a fairly resilient card overall.
Fetch-Shock-Blog
Moderator of /r/Scapeshift
I achieved an X-2 record day 1 without any byes (my last GP I ended at 7-2 Day 1 w/ 2 byes from a GPT)
R1 - BTL Shift (1-2); got everything countered game 3.
R2 - Jeskai Nahiri (2-0); easy-peasy.
R3 - Company Zoo (2-0); easy-peasy.
R4 - Merfolk (2-1); 3 Lords = dead Bolts for me.
R5 - Jund (2-1); Got stuck on lands G1.
R6 - Burn (2-1); I danced around Deflecting Palm with multiple Valakuts.
R7 - Mono-White Tron (2-0); wtf
R8 - Affinity (0-2); he killed me both games around turns 3 or 4.
R9 - Burn (2-0); I won game 2 I just had 2 Mountains and 3 Valakuts as land. Spellskite and ONE Lightning Bolt bought a lot of time.
DAY 2:
R10 - Affinity (2-0); game 1 he has 4 Nexi in play and I Through the Breach a Hornet Queen and that buys a million turns.
R11 - Bant Eldrazi THIAGO SAPORITO (1-2); game 1 I open busted on ramp via turn 1 Utopia Sprawl, turn 2 Search for Tomorrow, then double Farseek I see NO Pacts/Titans/form of end game. Flood.
R12 - Collected Abzan (2-0); easy-peasy.
R13 - Blue Moon (1-2); Game 2 was was carried via Utopia Sprawl. Game 3 I was stranded with a million green cards but could not peel a basic. He also Remanded Breach 4 times.
R14 - Infect OWEN TURTENWALD (1-2); game 1 he mulls to 5 and I attempt turn 3 Breach, that fails, then I turn 4 Titan. Game 2 I forget to pay for Pact with Melira AND Skite out. Go sleep deprivation. Game 3 I just mis-sequence things.
R15 - DROP, was too tired and hungry to play.
I was using this list w/ a LOT of personal changes:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/419539#paper
I literally played that deck just because I felt like putting Hornet Queen on my decklist.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Gigliaronanomacon/videos?view_as=subscriber
FOLLOW me on Twitch to catch new streams:
http://www.twitch.tv/ghostxempire/
Twitter: @nerd_gazm
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
1) sudden shock over lighting bolt. It shoots right past spellskite without issue. Better in the infect and abzan coco match ups. I have not missed bolt sense the switch.
2) keep the farseeks in the deck. Farseek is much better than you think.
3) I have moved away from relic to scav ooze because it can be found with summoners pact.
I have played two crumble to dust and dont plan on taking them out soon.
Also, I have been considering more of a creature based sideboard for Summoner's pact, but it makes me want to go up to 3 pacts. That way I always have 4 'copies' of my sideboard cards. What do you think?
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
I 'd be curious to see how this works for you. but how many molten vortex?
hypothetically you'd want life from the loam in addition to vortex strategy.
koth of the hammer is useful for grindy match ups that can stop valakut, the molten pinnacle and/or deal with primeval titan beat down. he's giving us extra creature or a back up combo for the mountains.
using Koth also allows us to have something to do if we choose to run our own blood moon in the sideboard.
For the flex slot, you might consider another green hate creature to get with Summoner's Pact. Possibly a Melira.
Why would we ever want to run a blood moon? In what matchup are we so afraid of our opponents lands that we would destroy our own game plan and make 12 main deck cards almost useless instead relying on one fragile planes walker?
I'm not saying Koth is trash, just that ever running a blood moon of our own is unless you want a transformational sideboard into R/G through the breach enrakul titan. Which seems silly
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
I agree, when do WE play blood moon in our side? it's so against our own game plan.
I think a lot of it comes down to whether they have pressure or not. If not, you can sit back and run your stuff into counters all day since the goal is to set up Valakut.
I usually bring in the threats like Baloth and Titan/Koth/Thrun to keep pressuring counterspells, and don't have a specific SB card for control. Thrun was the goto card for a while, and worked pretty well.
Fetch-Shock-Blog
Moderator of /r/Scapeshift
I put two Geas's Revenge in my SB now because of the uptick in control decks. but the game plan is just keep running out things until they run out of counters.
we play off the top of our decks very well for the most part, do play the Valakut and just make land drops if you have to. interact with them in every way you can.
right now i think Geas's Revenge is the best SB card for blue decks because it wins the game. Ricochet Trap, Guttural Response, and Autumn's Veil are okay but they can be stopped with a second counter spell like Negate which often comes in against us. Thrun, the last troll does not have haste and has vary small stats, a big goyf or other x/5 creatures get in the way to easily. Gaea's Revenge is big,can't be stopped, can't be killed with most removal, and can be found with pact.
Fetch-Shock-Blog
Moderator of /r/Scapeshift