In my earlier posts as per my testing, I was not really happy with Vents. Rarely had it helped me stabilized against aggro. It was more of a sudden inclusion when I dropped to 14 creatures to have an additional threat. The vent slot is the flex spot in my landbase and could easily be another GQ, Waste or Bog.
Congrats Deaddrift! and thank you for the very nice report.
adding a bojuka could balance the cut of sowers: map+bojuka in mid game = a ton of exiled cards usually.
right of the bat:
-1 fetid
-2 claws
-1 sower
-1 displacer
+1 bojuka
+1 map
+1 sorin ( not 100% sure i am not a big fan of walkers...the only ones i always like to play are liliana and ajani vengeant )
+2 warping
Is damnation really better than all is dust? there is no sinergy with temples and eye, besides it hurts us too.
I would consider:
-1 map
-2 damnation
+2 flaying tendrils: istant exiling effect, hurts us too but not too much
+1 all is dust
Said that, I like your build: your mana base looks solid, I support the fetch use for the reasons we all know.
I have a request, if possible, could you tell us how you sided during your games? That would be really helpful.
Thank you.
Well thanks for your kind words and perspective, LucaDG. I will add some siding notes below as requested. But I have to say that I disagree with some of your suggestions.
I am not too worried about losing the exile effect of my singleton Sower, but I really hate taplands, which is why I run neither Bog nor Vent. I would be worried about losing my two Claws, which unlike Map are not a dead late-game topdeck, because they cantrip. They also can take a target card out of a yard for 1, which can be extremely relevant against e.g. Gifts, Snapcaster, etc. I see many lists that run 4 Relics but no Claws or Spellbombs, and I am certain that this is a mistake in a Processor build.
I found I strongly prefer Damnation to All is Dust because I don't need a nuts draw to play it on T4. Dust requires 3 Temples, or 2 Temples plus Eye, to come down on that turn. (So rather than needing 3 of 6 possible sources for T4 AiD, I need 2 of 13 possible sources for a T4 Damnation). It also does not hit the mirror, or Affinity, unlike Damnation. And if I am holding a sweeper in hand (as opposed to top-decking) then it is easy to play around it until I can unload, leaving myself creatures to play on the following turns. I can definitely see a strong argument for Languish in this spot, though, in a meta that doesn't have a lot of mirror matches.
A card that I ran earlier, that might need to reappear, is Spellskite; but it is a very tight list, and my Infect match is strong and I am not running into many Bogles decks right now. Damnation can hit Bogles IF they don't have an Umbra (big if).
Side In/Out addendum to play report above:
Round 1 vs. Budget Burn: IN: Rest for the Weary x3, Engineered Explosives x2. EE was for Swiftspear, Vexing Devil, and Goblin Guide (which it turns out he did not have in his budget build). OUT: Ulamog, Sower, Map, Surgical Extraction, 1 Blight Herder.
Round 3 vs. UBRG Pump deck: IN: EE x2 (for his Stormchaser Mage and other 2 CMC critters) OUT: Map, Extraction.
Round 4 vs. Jund: IN: Engineered Explosives x2 (for Goyf, Scooze), Map x1 (to fetch GQ for his manlands and to combat his land destruction) OUT: Extraction, Sower, Displacer.
Hope that helps. Thanks for reading. If anyone sees mistakes in my boarding please speak up; it is the part of the match that always makes me feel least confidant about my decisions.
@The Prodigy: I don't think WW in the early game is likely or practical. I would go with Sorin for lifegain before I ran Finks. (Though I agree that the creature count, especially in my build, is teetering on the edge of having too few.)
@miko14: Great play report, thanks for sharing. Nice first post ever!
Sideboard is constantly adjusting. I am currently thinking of trying 2 Rest for the Weary instead of Damnation and something else so I am more readily prepared for Burn at Regionals. I am also debating adding a GQ and going down to 1 Urborg (and cutting Oblivion Sower completely and going full 4x Reality Smasher). For now I'll diversify my threats so they can't be yanked via Surgical Extraction.
@deaddrift I honestly haven't had too many issues with getting things exiled. Bojuka Bog and TKS really has me covered outside of Relics. (not to mention Path to Exile and such). I am also considering cutting all my Oblivion Sowers. My only fear is the mirror match where we need our 5/8 to wall their 5/8 and 5/5's. If I do cut him completely, I might consider going down to 1 Urborg for another GQ.
do you feel that shambling vent is really well performing in this deck? it comes into play tapped it's mana intensive and it has written bolt/ghost quarter on its face. I was never that happy to draw it.
imho bojuka could be a better choice, it's slow but it does immeditely something really synergetic with the mechanic of the deck.
Think of Vent in a different manner. He isn't really there to stabilize vs aggro. There will be grindy games against decks like Jund/k and Control where you are in top deck mode. In those games, I play what I draw and usually have enough mana left to animate the Vents and crack in for 2 damage. If they are willing to bolt or remove it, it's removal not going at my face. Against decks like Delver, it can help pad your life total as well. It's also an effective way to keep things like Liliana in check.
Making your opponent constantly discard so your Reality Smashers are even harder to kill and discarding lingering souls to Lili's +1 has to be good right?
Lili is amazing but she is also $100 and I don't think she improves the deck enough for the $100 commitment to trying her out. I do think she is very good as a 1x though (essentially takes Sorin's flex spot in my list.
Lili is amazing but she is also $100 and I don't think she improves the deck enough for the $100 commitment to trying her out. I do think she is very good as a 1x though (essentially takes Sorin's flex spot in my list.
I think Sorin is game-changing enough for certain matchups that I would never consider dropping him for a card like Liliana, strong though she may be.
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My 360 Peasant+ Cube!. Modern borders where possible, usually with the newest (or "best") art, and always the most readable card text. I also run all 10 painlands. My playgroup is super casual, as we have a fair number of newer or less experienced players. Typically we draft with 4 to 6 people, using 5 packs of 9.
Lili is amazing but she is also $100 and I don't think she improves the deck enough for the $100 commitment to trying her out. I do think she is very good as a 1x though (essentially takes Sorin's flex spot in my list.
I think Sorin is game-changing enough for certain matchups that I would never consider dropping him for a card like Liliana, strong though she may be.
I agree. My problem is I am not going to go buy a Lili to test her in a slot. I just don't think she is needed. Sorin was something I already have, makes sense and slotted in really easily. I love him and won't look back now.
I don't like Lili because of BB and because we actually don't want to discard lands most of the time. We're not like Jund or Abzan - most of the time, we are unhappy if we only have 3 land.
How has 24 lands worked out for you? I am currently running 25 and I feel I get land screwed from time to time.
I have been arguing for keeping sowers as a 3 of, but smasher has proven to be game ending. I think I am going to got to 4/3/3/2/2 (herder,TKS, smasher, sower, strangler). Glad I can test online now.
Depending on how much traction the deck gets, having sowers in the board may be a good play.
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How has 24 lands worked out for you? I am currently running 25 and I feel I get land screwed from time to time.
I have been arguing for keeping sowers as a 3 of, but smasher has proven to be game ending. I think I am going to got to 4/3/3/2/2 (herder,TKS, smasher, sower, strangler). Glad I can test online now.
Depending on how much traction the deck gets, having sowers in the board may be a good play.
I haven't had a lot of issues with getting mana screwed. It helps (very very minor) that I don't run fetches either but the 2 Maps seems to fill the void of land drops. Instead of drawing a random land off the top, it lets me pick and choose which lands I want after I deal with the initial threats. Cutting Sowers has lowered the curve a bit as well. I agree in the mirror Sower is fantastic but I am still so swayed by Reality Smasher since he can't be chumped with Lingering Souls tokens either. Sower does have the chance of completely bricking on relevant lands. I think the BW version doesn't need them but the BU version with Ashiok most certainly does. (Without fetches as well, the only lands you get are the ones you GQ).
@deaddrift I honestly haven't had too many issues with getting things exiled. Bojuka Bog and TKS really has me covered outside of Relics. (not to mention Path to Exile and such). I am also considering cutting all my Oblivion Sowers. My only fear is the mirror match where we need our 5/8 to wall their 5/8 and 5/5's. If I do cut him completely, I might consider going down to 1 Urborg for another GQ.
I would say your tourney results speak for themselves, Exatraz . It is true that Bog can do some heavy lifting for exile purposes.
I like the idea of shedding an Urborg, but I feel I need the black sources for my T1 discard plays, which I absolutely love to see. I'd be inclined to go with another dual, like Shrine maybe, to up my early white odds as well. Although GQ is attractive to shore up the bad Tron matchup.
How has 24 lands worked out for you? I am currently running 25 and I feel I get land screwed from time to time.
I have been arguing for keeping sowers as a 3 of, but smasher has proven to be game ending. I think I am going to got to 4/3/3/2/2 (herder,TKS, smasher, sower, strangler). Glad I can test online now.
Depending on how much traction the deck gets, having sowers in the board may be a good play.
Flood and screw happen to the best-balanced decks. It is part of the game. (As I'm sure you well know.) Personally I experience many more games where I keep top decking lands instead of answers, than I do games where I am looking at cards I can't cast due to mana availability. 25 was too much for me.
and of course Lingering Souls. I've also been testing with 25 lands. But I'm wondering if it might not be better to drop down to 24 lands and to cut Ulamog entirely, especially now that the deck is less focused on the ramp package, and fill in the 2 open slots with something new. Perhaps a 4th Strangler, maybe a 2nd Map or another kill spell.
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My 360 Peasant+ Cube!. Modern borders where possible, usually with the newest (or "best") art, and always the most readable card text. I also run all 10 painlands. My playgroup is super casual, as we have a fair number of newer or less experienced players. Typically we draft with 4 to 6 people, using 5 packs of 9.
Leyline is good against burn, sometimes really great, sometimes just okay. If it's not in your opener it's completely dead more or less. Rest for the weary is not perfect but I like it a bit more than leyline since it doesn't have to be in your opener.
Leyline is good against burn, sometimes really great, sometimes just okay. If it's not in your opener it's completely dead more or less. Rest for the weary is not perfect but I like it a bit more than leyline since it doesn't have to be in your opener.
Also doesn't essentially require 4x in the SB. That is 2 slots used for something else.
@deaddrift I honestly haven't had too many issues with getting things exiled. Bojuka Bog and TKS really has me covered outside of Relics. (not to mention Path to Exile and such). I am also considering cutting all my Oblivion Sowers. My only fear is the mirror match where we need our 5/8 to wall their 5/8 and 5/5's. If I do cut him completely, I might consider going down to 1 Urborg for another GQ.
I would say your tourney results speak for themselves, Exatraz . It is true that Bog can do some heavy lifting for exile purposes.
I like the idea of shedding an Urborg, but I feel I need the black sources for my T1 discard plays, which I absolutely love to see. I'd be inclined to go with another dual, like Shrine maybe, to up my early white odds as well. Although GQ is attractive to shore up the bad Tron matchup.
How has 24 lands worked out for you? I am currently running 25 and I feel I get land screwed from time to time.
I have been arguing for keeping sowers as a 3 of, but smasher has proven to be game ending. I think I am going to got to 4/3/3/2/2 (herder,TKS, smasher, sower, strangler). Glad I can test online now.
Depending on how much traction the deck gets, having sowers in the board may be a good play.
Flood and screw happen to the best-balanced decks. It is part of the game. (As I'm sure you well know.) Personally I experience many more games where I keep top decking lands instead of answers, than I do games where I am looking at cards I can't cast due to mana availability. 25 was too much for me.
Thanks bro! I am hoping to be rewarded for the time and effort I spend with some good matchups at regionals. Not saying I have to win it all (though I would certainly not be complaining) but I'd love to have a good solid showing from the deck out there for others to see. I completely agree that losing another T1 black source makes me a tad nervous. On the plus side, nobody has ever blown up my Urborg. For now I am leaving it in but reducing to 1 would reduce the risk of getting Legendary screwed. Currently I am sitting at 11 T1 Black sources, 8 T2 White sources and 13 colorless. I guess adding another Godless Shrine is the happy medium for the time being. I would like to go to 3 GQs eventually but don't want to sacrifice the utility lands I am running currently.
I like Ulamog as a 1 of. He is kind of an insurance policy. He can clear things from the board that you otherwise couldn't. He wins through infinite life. He wins if you can't exile. This is all at the expense of having him stuck in your hand.
He is kind of like the twin combo (RIP). The threat of him is enough to make people nervous and make misplays.
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I like Ulamog as a 1 of. He is kind of an insurance policy. He can clear things from the board that you otherwise couldn't. He wins through infinite life. He wins if you can't exile. This is all at the expense of having him stuck in your hand.
He is kind of like the twin combo (RIP). The threat of him is enough to make people nervous and make misplays.
Fair point! I'll keep him in for now, then.
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My 360 Peasant+ Cube!. Modern borders where possible, usually with the newest (or "best") art, and always the most readable card text. I also run all 10 painlands. My playgroup is super casual, as we have a fair number of newer or less experienced players. Typically we draft with 4 to 6 people, using 5 packs of 9.
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I am not too worried about losing the exile effect of my singleton Sower, but I really hate taplands, which is why I run neither Bog nor Vent. I would be worried about losing my two Claws, which unlike Map are not a dead late-game topdeck, because they cantrip. They also can take a target card out of a yard for 1, which can be extremely relevant against e.g. Gifts, Snapcaster, etc. I see many lists that run 4 Relics but no Claws or Spellbombs, and I am certain that this is a mistake in a Processor build.
I found I strongly prefer Damnation to All is Dust because I don't need a nuts draw to play it on T4. Dust requires 3 Temples, or 2 Temples plus Eye, to come down on that turn. (So rather than needing 3 of 6 possible sources for T4 AiD, I need 2 of 13 possible sources for a T4 Damnation). It also does not hit the mirror, or Affinity, unlike Damnation. And if I am holding a sweeper in hand (as opposed to top-decking) then it is easy to play around it until I can unload, leaving myself creatures to play on the following turns. I can definitely see a strong argument for Languish in this spot, though, in a meta that doesn't have a lot of mirror matches.
A card that I ran earlier, that might need to reappear, is Spellskite; but it is a very tight list, and my Infect match is strong and I am not running into many Bogles decks right now. Damnation can hit Bogles IF they don't have an Umbra (big if).
Side In/Out addendum to play report above:
Round 1 vs. Budget Burn: IN: Rest for the Weary x3, Engineered Explosives x2. EE was for Swiftspear, Vexing Devil, and Goblin Guide (which it turns out he did not have in his budget build). OUT: Ulamog, Sower, Map, Surgical Extraction, 1 Blight Herder.
Round 2 vs. Jeskai Geist: (Game 2) IN: Surgical Extraction x3 OUT: Sower, 2x Strangler (Game 3) IN: Disenchant x2 OUT: Extraction x2.
Round 3 vs. UBRG Pump deck: IN: EE x2 (for his Stormchaser Mage and other 2 CMC critters) OUT: Map, Extraction.
Round 4 vs. Jund: IN: Engineered Explosives x2 (for Goyf, Scooze), Map x1 (to fetch GQ for his manlands and to combat his land destruction) OUT: Extraction, Sower, Displacer.
Hope that helps. Thanks for reading. If anyone sees mistakes in my boarding please speak up; it is the part of the match that always makes me feel least confidant about my decisions.
@The Prodigy: I don't think WW in the early game is likely or practical. I would go with Sorin for lifegain before I ran Finks. (Though I agree that the creature count, especially in my build, is teetering on the edge of having too few.)
@miko14: Great play report, thanks for sharing. Nice first post ever!
Here is my current decklist:
3x Wasteland Strangler
3x Thought-knot Seer
4x Blight Herder
3x Reality Smasher
1x Oblivion Sower
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Sorceries (8):
4x Lingering Souls
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
Instants (6):
4x Path to Exile
2x Warping Wail
Planeswalker (1):
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Artifact (6):
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Expedition Map
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
2x Urborg, Tomb of the Yawgmoth
2x Godless Shrine
4x Cave of Koilos
2x Ghost Quarters
2x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Waste
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Shambling Vent
1x Cavern of Souls
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Duress
2x Stony Silence
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Flaying Tendrils
1x Disenchant
1x Celestial Purge
1x Damnation
Sideboard is constantly adjusting. I am currently thinking of trying 2 Rest for the Weary instead of Damnation and something else so I am more readily prepared for Burn at Regionals. I am also debating adding a GQ and going down to 1 Urborg (and cutting Oblivion Sower completely and going full 4x Reality Smasher). For now I'll diversify my threats so they can't be yanked via Surgical Extraction.
@deaddrift I honestly haven't had too many issues with getting things exiled. Bojuka Bog and TKS really has me covered outside of Relics. (not to mention Path to Exile and such). I am also considering cutting all my Oblivion Sowers. My only fear is the mirror match where we need our 5/8 to wall their 5/8 and 5/5's. If I do cut him completely, I might consider going down to 1 Urborg for another GQ.
Think of Vent in a different manner. He isn't really there to stabilize vs aggro. There will be grindy games against decks like Jund/k and Control where you are in top deck mode. In those games, I play what I draw and usually have enough mana left to animate the Vents and crack in for 2 damage. If they are willing to bolt or remove it, it's removal not going at my face. Against decks like Delver, it can help pad your life total as well. It's also an effective way to keep things like Liliana in check.
Lili is amazing but she is also $100 and I don't think she improves the deck enough for the $100 commitment to trying her out. I do think she is very good as a 1x though (essentially takes Sorin's flex spot in my list.
I agree. My problem is I am not going to go buy a Lili to test her in a slot. I just don't think she is needed. Sorin was something I already have, makes sense and slotted in really easily. I love him and won't look back now.
I agree for MB but I think I hit it consistently enough that I haven't had too many issues running Flaying Tendrils.
I have been arguing for keeping sowers as a 3 of, but smasher has proven to be game ending. I think I am going to got to 4/3/3/2/2 (herder,TKS, smasher, sower, strangler). Glad I can test online now.
Depending on how much traction the deck gets, having sowers in the board may be a good play.
I haven't had a lot of issues with getting mana screwed. It helps (very very minor) that I don't run fetches either but the 2 Maps seems to fill the void of land drops. Instead of drawing a random land off the top, it lets me pick and choose which lands I want after I deal with the initial threats. Cutting Sowers has lowered the curve a bit as well. I agree in the mirror Sower is fantastic but I am still so swayed by Reality Smasher since he can't be chumped with Lingering Souls tokens either. Sower does have the chance of completely bricking on relevant lands. I think the BW version doesn't need them but the BU version with Ashiok most certainly does. (Without fetches as well, the only lands you get are the ones you GQ).
I like the idea of shedding an Urborg, but I feel I need the black sources for my T1 discard plays, which I absolutely love to see. I'd be inclined to go with another dual, like Shrine maybe, to up my early white odds as well. Although GQ is attractive to shore up the bad Tron matchup.
Flood and screw happen to the best-balanced decks. It is part of the game. (As I'm sure you well know.) Personally I experience many more games where I keep top decking lands instead of answers, than I do games where I am looking at cards I can't cast due to mana availability. 25 was too much for me.
- 4 Blight Herder
- 2 Reality Smasher
- 4 Thought-Knot Seer
- 1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
- 3 Wasteland Strangler
and of course Lingering Souls. I've also been testing with 25 lands. But I'm wondering if it might not be better to drop down to 24 lands and to cut Ulamog entirely, especially now that the deck is less focused on the ramp package, and fill in the 2 open slots with something new. Perhaps a 4th Strangler, maybe a 2nd Map or another kill spell.Is running 3 in te SB better than 3 rest for the weary? My current meta plays a lot of BW eldrazi.
Also doesn't essentially require 4x in the SB. That is 2 slots used for something else.
Thanks bro! I am hoping to be rewarded for the time and effort I spend with some good matchups at regionals. Not saying I have to win it all (though I would certainly not be complaining) but I'd love to have a good solid showing from the deck out there for others to see. I completely agree that losing another T1 black source makes me a tad nervous. On the plus side, nobody has ever blown up my Urborg. For now I am leaving it in but reducing to 1 would reduce the risk of getting Legendary screwed. Currently I am sitting at 11 T1 Black sources, 8 T2 White sources and 13 colorless. I guess adding another Godless Shrine is the happy medium for the time being. I would like to go to 3 GQs eventually but don't want to sacrifice the utility lands I am running currently.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
He is kind of like the twin combo (RIP). The threat of him is enough to make people nervous and make misplays.