Been talked about quite a bit in earlier posts. Long story short, Thought-Knot Seer is much better than Tidehollow Sculler and easier on the mana base. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is a nice card, but splashing a 4th color for the 3 drop is not where we want to be. There are better exiling effects out there, and the generalized open meta is turning to aggro and Ashiok is just not strong in the case. TKS on turn 2 or 3, followed by herder, sower or smasher is a much better sequence.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Round 1 vs. Elves. 1-2. Game 1, I lost when he topdecked Chord of Calling for an Elf that gives Forestwalk since I had his Forest. He could have blocked 1 fewer creature last turn and gotten Shaman of the Pack anyway. In the next game, I do removal and discard and grind him out. In the final game after his turn 3 nut draw and I'm at 5 life, I scoop since I really have no outs.
Round 2 vs. Burn. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Infect. 2-0.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I think you will find that Sculler is hard on the mana base and with playing TKS, sculler and ashiok, you will lose out on a lot of the processors just because you might not have room. I tested out playing a sultai build of the deck, and a lot of times half my hand would be unplayable because of missing a mana type. Please test it out, but most people here have found that CBW already makes mana very tight and play another color on top of that will make things very unreliable as far as mana goes.
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This is true. 3 colors (including waste) seems to be the optimal configuration for decks running waste since there are no dual/fetch lands which caters to it.
I love lingering souls , it really does wonders sometimes, but i don't want multiple copies of it in my hand. 3 feels right in the deck. I'll find out later today how it works out.
I've actually never been uhappy to have more than 1 Lingering Souls (unless stuck at 2 lands, but then I'm unhappy with anything that isn't a land). Multiple souls make for a surprisingly fast clock and I have on occation won games off being able to cast 3 Lingering Souls with no other (lasting) board presence.
I've been fiddling a bit with the mana for the post-OGW list and I think this configuration seems interesting:
It gives you 14 black sources, 12 white and 12 <>, which is what I'm aiming for (90% chance of T1 B and 90% chance of t3 W and <>, which seems to be what this deck needs to play consistantly). Going down to 4/2/2 on Eldrazi Temple/Eye of Ugin/Urborg seems to have worked out fine for several people (though such lists may be better off running maps, so there may still be some trade-off). Haven't tried out Vault yet, but others have praised it and with all the tokens we make I wouldn't be surprised if it was a real asset. However, Vault can be changed for Ghost Quarter (or Sea Gate Wreckage) and Marsh Flats and Godless Shrine are somewhat interchangable (to a lesser extend this also includes Windswept Hearth and other B og W fetches as a budget option) without hurting consistancy in the mana base.
I too have won many games riding three Lingering Souls without any other presence. I would never go below 4 in a BW shell without a very, very good reason.
With your Vents you have only 11 T1 sources for B, and I don't know what number, but some number below 12 B or C for T3. The T1 play--and tempo in general--is so important for this deck that I scrapped the man lands altogether, though it is true that sometimes I wish I had one on the field.
My manabase is below. I have a 1-of Map to get Eye/Urborg/GQ/Vault/basic when desired. This gives 12 B, 12 C, and 11 W with three fetches, and four basics.
I think this is about as good as it gets in a 24 land package, for those who agree with me that CIPT lands are to be avoided. For those who like them I could see losing maybe 1 Flats and possibly 1 Shrine. I would never go above two taplands, personally.
So I've got some input to give on this deck after doing some play testing.
What I've found is that more often than not, Strangler was a fringe card. I cut it and instead put in 3 matter reshaper's and I find that those are MUCH better for us. It can ramp, it can flip into another matter reshaper or just draw a card. You would not believe how many times my opponents would PtE this thing (so you get a card anyways) because they didn't want me to get value from it. I'm not going back to the strangler.
I played a goblin deck in the third round and got absolutely annihilated games 1 and 3. I think we just have to accept that this version can get rolled by extreme aggro/burn. I sided in a bunch of stuff to try and stem the flow, but it didn't matter. Game 1 I died turn 3 and game 3 I died turn 5. I had 7 mana but not enough to do anything with, sadly. These are not unwinnable (except game 1. Don't think you can win that one), but they are hella hard.
I played U tron and that is actually a really easy match up. They have a hard time dealing with all the disruption.
TKS...why on earth are any of you playing 1? That card is a house EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Seriously. 3 is the minimum you should play. I got the dream of landing it turn 2 against U Tron and I got 12 damage in before he could do anything about it. Ouch.
So I've got some input to give on this deck after doing some play testing.
What I've found is that more often than not, Strangler was a fringe card. I cut it and instead put in 3 matter reshaper's and I find that those are MUCH better for us. It can ramp, it can flip into another matter reshaper or just draw a card. You would not believe how many times my opponents would PtE this thing (so you get a card anyways) because they didn't want me to get value from it. I'm not going back to the strangler.
I played a goblin deck in the third round and got absolutely annihilated games 1 and 3. I think we just have to accept that this version can get rolled by extreme aggro/burn. I sided in a bunch of stuff to try and stem the flow, but it didn't matter. Game 1 I died turn 3 and game 3 I died turn 5. I had 7 mana but not enough to do anything with, sadly. These are not unwinnable (except game 1. Don't think you can win that one), but they are hella hard.
I played U tron and that is actually a really easy match up. They have a hard time dealing with all the disruption.
TKS...why on earth are any of you playing 1? That card is a house EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Seriously. 3 is the minimum you should play. I got the dream of landing it turn 2 against U Tron and I got 12 damage in before he could do anything about it. Ouch.
The problem with Matter Reshaper is he does nothing onboard immediately. If you are struggling with aggro, Strangler is better because he can kill a beater AND trade or be removed. The problem with Matter Reshaper lies in that they are giving you a random card off the top but keeping all their creatures alive. The ability to kill opposing creatures (especially utility creatures) is way too valuable IMO.
Ok quick tournament report from last night from my TNF 32 people
Round 1: Cruel Control (2-0) [1-0]
Grind grind grind win. Key play this round was when I hit his Keranos and a land (instead of Jace) with Newlamog cast trigger in game 2. I had seen he was on Cruel control after I surgically extracted a card early in the game. He was 1 mana short so I removed that out as best as I could. He also only had 2 cards in the yard so I was less concerned about Jace flipping anytime soon.
Round 2: Bant CoCo Goodstuff (1-1-1) [1-0-1]
Kind of frustrating round because while I took game 1 rather quickly, he used a knight of the reliquary to sift through his GQ->Tech Edge->Tech Edge game 2 and I was 1 mana short the entire game. Worst part is if I had 2 Swamps in the deck, I'd have been able to cast Flaying Tendrils and wiped his board. Unfortunately I had drawn 2/3 basics so the GQ fetched the 3rd and I got squat from there (off Paths). Game 3 I had him dead to rights but his inability to know his own outs and staying in tank mode let him draw the game to time. I seem to draw a lot of games with this deck because of this. It's usually less my own speed and more the folks who don't realize they either have no outs or what they need to draw to actually affect the board state.
Round 3: Soul Sisters with Tokens (0-2) [1-1-1]
This is where my luck really turned for the worse on the night. Game 1 I was getting beat down pretty quick but I eventually had a resolved Newlamog to stabilize with him top decking (I had 1 Scion and TKS back for blockers) and he had 47 cards in library when I get to untap with him. I swing in (27 cards in library). He draws and passes the turn. I blank on my draw but swing in again (6 cards in library). He casts Secure the Wastes at EOT for enough to lethal me (He topdecked a 2nd Honor the Pure the turn after I had cast Newlamog followed by the Secure the Wastes... ug terrible luck). Game 2 I managed to demolish his early game and was feeling pretty good but he ripped a Secure the Wastes followed by Honor the Pure to apply pressure to my life total. I managed to play defense and restabalized at 1 life but before I could retake the advantage, he topdecked a Spectral Procession into Squadron Hawk's (casting all 4) and I couldn't find an answer (somehow I found 0 board clears the entire game). Ug ohwell.
Round 4: Mono Black 8rack (1-2) [1-2-1]
Got stuck on 2 lands/3 mana game 1 and 3. Game 2 I discarded 2 Lingering Souls early and they did the work to close the game before he could get an answer.
All in all it was a meh and boring night. I was hoping to playtest against more fast aggro decks and test out my 2x Ratchet Bombs and 2x Porphyry Nodes I had in my SB for the night. I think I may end up going with Ratchet Bombs for their versatility. Nodes is a great T1/2 play against decks like Zoo, Elves and Merfolk because it essentially forces them to stop playing creatures for a turn or 2, or you get to blow up a creature a turn. Those couple extra turns could mean all the difference in those matchups. I'm still split but being able to crank Bombs to kill things like Ensnaring Bridge seems pretty good (because outside of Newlamog, it's really hard for us to get rid of multiple Bridges).
I think I might try and go back up to 2 Basic swamps in main. I easily lost a game that had I had another basic swamp in the deck, I'd have probably stabilized and won. I mainly say this because of the BB things in the sideboard. I'll probably cut a Godless Shrine for it.
How's the mainboard All is Dust been? I've been running a pretty similar list to you, the major differences being Dismembers over Go for the Throats, a slightly different mana base and a 25th land over the AiD. I've been thinking about dropping a land for another spell but every time I'm about to make the change I get mana screwed and reconsider.
I have absolutely loved All is Dust. It's just crazy good and even in the matchups where its awful (like affinity and tron) it's just a 1of that you can pull out for SB cards. Makes for easy cuts and it's upside is HUGE. I'd never go more than 1 though. I am with you in the consideration of moving up to 25 lands though.
How essential do you feel map is? I'm playing a similar list to yours but with md surgical extractions instead of map. I'm happy w/ my results thus far but I'm curious if you have it in there because you feel it ups your chance of consistently casting eldrazi early or because you feel the deck needs it to function.
Personally I love map. I initially played without them and I don't think they are required (though I'd do a 3/2 split of eye/urborg without) but playing with them seems to have increased my consistency since I can fetch the land I need. If I need a 3rd mana AND eldrazi mana I can get a temple. If the game is going to go long I can get the Eye. Sometimes I use it to fetch Bojuka Bog to turn on the processors like a T3 Strangler against Zoo. The main thing is the utility to get what you need. It becomes especially relevant against Burn to get Shambling Vents or Vault (depending on my own hand) or against Tron to get Ghost Quarters.
As for Stony Silence against Tron.. yeah it doesn't help on the play. What it does help is if you can stall them off of Tron early, it can help you close out the game. At that point it shuts off Eggs, Map and O-stone. Forcing them to get all the way up to normal mana can be back breaking. In my experience. It's a bad matchup for us. You just have to rip cards from there hand (remember that ripping ways to find tron isn't always the right call. Sometimes they'll have too much redundancy of those things and you should grab their top end (or way to get top end like Ancient Stirrings). Force them to draw into their endgame. You'd be surprised sometimes they will get terrible draws from that front. If you really want a T1 answer though, Evil Presence is a card you could slot in your SB for those matchups.
That's all I got for now. Next tournament is Thursday for me and should have a lot more normal decks which will help.
What I've found is that more often than not, Strangler was a fringe card. I cut it and instead put in 3 matter reshaper's and I find that those are MUCH better for us. It can ramp, it can flip into another matter reshaper or just draw a card. You would not believe how many times my opponents would PtE this thing (so you get a card anyways) because they didn't want me to get value from it. I'm not going back to the strangler.
Very confused by a lot of this. Matter Reshaper does not "ramp" us in any way - it's not like he gives us a land or scion tokens. Also PTE on the Matter Reshaper does not trigger his ability (it is only on death) - you would just get a basic, same as if someone pathed your Strangler. And the value from Reshaper in this deck is questionable - you are very unlikely to hit another Matter Reshaper with him out, and that's the only permanent to possibly hit in the deck. Otherwise if/when he dies, you draw a random card in the deck. Strangler has a lot more potential value with killing a creature when he enters.
This has been a ~30 page thread where most of those ideas were discussed and tried already.
If you want to try U/B chat with the ~90 page B/x eldrazi thread, they're still trying all sorts of different colors out.
I know a few of them are running U/B with Ashiok.
We can't and don't want to run BWUC Eldrazi.
This has been a ~30 page thread where most of those ideas were discussed and tried already.
If you want to try U/B chat with the ~90 page B/x eldrazi thread, they're still trying all sorts of different colors out.
I know a few of them are running U/B with Ashiok.
We can't and don't want to run BWUC Eldrazi.
Matter Reshaper can hit lands and Relics too. That's how he ramps us.
But only when he goes to the GY. It's better to ensure the 2 for 1 with strangler than hope to hit a land, relic or map with Reshaper.
I have 11 sources of exile, between Relic, Claws, Path, Extraction, and TKS. I am running 3 Stranglers and no Reshapers right now, but I would not say I could "ensure" the Strangler 2-for-1. I get it a lot, maybe ~75-80% of the time I play him, I would guess, but it is not a given. I am also running 2 Displacers which can be nuts vs. Zoo, Fish, etc. I'm surprised more lists aren't trying Displacer out, actually. I also like it with my 3 Thought-Knot Seers. I have had all three on the board with lots of mana in the late game and that is not something opponents can come back from.
You're right, the tap lands prevent you from getting T1 B and shouldn't be counted for that. This puts my configuration at only 11 T1 sources, which is not optimal, and will lose you some percentages against decks where T1 hand distruption can be critical (Boggles comes to mind). However, in my testing they have really pulled their weight both in agressive situations by improving my clock (and dodging sweeps) and defensive situations as a blocker or source of life gain. As a matter of fact they have often been such a nuisance for my opponents that they've used their land destruction for Shambling Vent instead of saving it for my eldrazi lands. Still the lack of T1 black is a real issue and it will be one of the things I'll evaluate on during my further playtesting.
If you're worried about not making the T1 play, I think 12 B is too little, since you don't hit at least 1 source with 90% consistency before T3 (reference). 11 W sources also doesn't give you Lingering Souls mana consistently before T4, when that T3 souls can be crucial if you're hoping to stop flying plating-equipped affinity creatures or other very agressive threats. You're definitely right about the taplands being a problem (also not allowing my configuration to cast T3 souls with enough consistency), but by playing less colored sources you're giving up a big part of the tempo advantage of not playing tap lands by lowering your consistency.
I'd probably take out 1 Plains for 1 Godless Shrine and add another Marsh Flats (25 lands). That'd get you up to 14 B, 12 W and 12 C without any tap-lands, meaning that you can consistently cast everything on curve (except Languish and Flaying Tendrils, but I don't think it's possible for the deck to support that with 90% consistency with the lands that are available today).
Ps. Sorry for consistently overusing the word 'consistent' ;-)
I have found that I either flood or get screwed pretty often with this deck. I also have to mull quite a bit more than I like. The manabase is really, really tight. I have experimented with 25 lands but I think that 24 and one Map is enough. But you are right that my colors are on the low end. Your balance is closer to ideal. But I definitely want several basics, because I see lots of GQ and Path played against me and I want to have a fighting chance against Blood Moon, which will shut down a ton of my deck now that I have Displacer, Seer, and Smasher added to the Stranglers, Paths, and Souls I was already running.
Fetid Heath is a card that has been useful as a 1-of in the deck as a 5th tri-land but it won't cast a T1 disruption and can lead to floating mana that I don't have a use for just so I can fix for my missing color.
I dig the land discussion and learning how people find their versions performing. Thanks to the forum for all the valuable feedback.
I'm curious as to how many people are main boarding surgical extraction since its pretty good disruption and turns on the strangler as well.You could even hit a fetch in the grave and throw them off as well setup some sower shenanigans or ghost quarter a tron peice and take care of tron that way. I'll be testing it out this weekend, just hard to find room for it and curious on other players thoughts.
Matter Reshaper can hit lands and Relics too. That's how he ramps us.
But only when he goes to the GY. It's better to ensure the 2 for 1 with strangler than hope to hit a land, relic or map with Reshaper.
I have 11 sources of exile, between Relic, Claws, Path, Extraction, and TKS. I am running 3 Stranglers and no Reshapers right now, but I would not say I could "ensure" the Strangler 2-for-1. I get it a lot, maybe ~75-80% of the time I play him, I would guess, but it is not a given. I am also running 2 Displacers which can be nuts vs. Zoo, Fish, etc. I'm surprised more lists aren't trying Displacer out, actually. I also like it with my 3 Thought-Knot Seers. I have had all three on the board with lots of mana in the late game and that is not something opponents can come back from.
I haven't tried Displacer yet but that is because I'd have to find room for him. He just seems clunky and awkward to me. Does nothing on cast and even if you get him ASAP (which would be T2), he has to survive a turn just to start blinking creatures. He is great late game but I am just not sure. As far as mana sink... Essence Depleter doesn't look too bad. He gives you lifegain against burn, can block guide, swiftspear, Eidolon, and other such aggro creatures. Just a thought I saw from the Bx thread.
Round 1: Land Destruction 2-0. This deck was designed to prey on big mana strats but I was still able to use blight herder scions to ramp into lategame. I made a misplay casting TKS G1 T3 where I mistakenly thought Eye reduced colorless cost by 2, though it only reduces it by 2 generic (I had Swamp,Plains,Eye), it was two turns later before either of us noticed so the game state seemed irrepairable. I don't think it really would have changed the outcome, but lesson learned. G2 his game plan works...but I'm still able to come out on top once I land a herder.
Round 2: Kiln Fiend 2-1. G1 I mull to 5 and keep a shady 5..dead by T4. G2 I IoK his one creature in hand and am able to close out before he gets anything going. G3 I'm able to Iok Kiln fiend into surgical and he can't recover.
Round 3: Bogles 2-1. G1 is very close. I'm able to keep his hand clear of the worst of the enchantments until I can get a sower down (pathed my own spirit to ramp into this) along with vault on the field. G2 he has a god hand and I have a hard time staying above water. G3 able to IoK bogle into surgical. He lands a gladecover scout and a few minor enchants but I already have too big of a board presence.
Round 4: Naya Burn 2-1. Great games all down to the wire, very talented burn player. Strangler into Thought-knot really shined here. Strangler was able to process an iok'd goblin guide from a relic activation to kill one of 2 swiftspears and force him to waste burn on it, Thought-knot next turn puts him behind...but he is able to still get close to burning me out before i can close. G2 is very similar but once I stabilize he burns me out. G3 I stabilize at 8, after a timely reinforcements 2 turns back...I have a large presence of herders and scions that will be lethal next turn. He eot's Boros Charm and Atarka's Command leaving me at 1...top deck.........Grim Lavamancer. Thrilling end.
Overall I am loving Surgical Extraction x2 main, really makes Strangler shine and turns him on T2. Warping Wail was only cast tonight as an eot scion to ramp into board presence and very nice to have.
Solid reports everyone. I tried nodes back when this thread was originally created and was hot and cold on the card. I've reduced my celestial purge count in the board by 1 for the second flaying tendrils.
Solid reports everyone. I tried nodes back when this thread was originally created and was hot and cold on the card. I've reduced my celestial purge count in the board by 1 for the second flaying tendrils.
Of the new cards, Flaying Tendrils has been one of the more surprising ones to me. During spoilers I was very meh on the card but I love it now. Much better than Drown in Sorrow because of the exile and with Twin gone and aggro picking up, it slots in nicely. I agree upon deck inception Nodes was hit or miss but with all the aggro running around, it can really do the work.. Still not totally sold on it but I think it's worth the relook.
Im building the deck and only need 1x Oblivion Sower and 2x Eye of Ugin because i already have 1 ... its viable to play with 2 Eyes only? because i only have one so i buy another one and Oblivion and finish the deck ...
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Modern: RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries Legacy:BRx Renimator Playing right now:Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
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Been talked about quite a bit in earlier posts. Long story short, Thought-Knot Seer is much better than Tidehollow Sculler and easier on the mana base. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is a nice card, but splashing a 4th color for the 3 drop is not where we want to be. There are better exiling effects out there, and the generalized open meta is turning to aggro and Ashiok is just not strong in the case. TKS on turn 2 or 3, followed by herder, sower or smasher is a much better sequence.
Round 1 vs. Elves. 1-2. Game 1, I lost when he topdecked Chord of Calling for an Elf that gives Forestwalk since I had his Forest. He could have blocked 1 fewer creature last turn and gotten Shaman of the Pack anyway. In the next game, I do removal and discard and grind him out. In the final game after his turn 3 nut draw and I'm at 5 life, I scoop since I really have no outs.
Round 2 vs. Burn. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Infect. 2-0.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I think you will find that Sculler is hard on the mana base and with playing TKS, sculler and ashiok, you will lose out on a lot of the processors just because you might not have room. I tested out playing a sultai build of the deck, and a lot of times half my hand would be unplayable because of missing a mana type. Please test it out, but most people here have found that CBW already makes mana very tight and play another color on top of that will make things very unreliable as far as mana goes.
With your Vents you have only 11 T1 sources for B, and I don't know what number, but some number below 12 B or C for T3. The T1 play--and tempo in general--is so important for this deck that I scrapped the man lands altogether, though it is true that sometimes I wish I had one on the field.
My manabase is below. I have a 1-of Map to get Eye/Urborg/GQ/Vault/basic when desired. This gives 12 B, 12 C, and 11 W with three fetches, and four basics.
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Marsh Flats
2 Godless Shrine
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Wastes
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
So I've got some input to give on this deck after doing some play testing.
What I've found is that more often than not, Strangler was a fringe card. I cut it and instead put in 3 matter reshaper's and I find that those are MUCH better for us. It can ramp, it can flip into another matter reshaper or just draw a card. You would not believe how many times my opponents would PtE this thing (so you get a card anyways) because they didn't want me to get value from it. I'm not going back to the strangler.
I played a goblin deck in the third round and got absolutely annihilated games 1 and 3. I think we just have to accept that this version can get rolled by extreme aggro/burn. I sided in a bunch of stuff to try and stem the flow, but it didn't matter. Game 1 I died turn 3 and game 3 I died turn 5. I had 7 mana but not enough to do anything with, sadly. These are not unwinnable (except game 1. Don't think you can win that one), but they are hella hard.
I played U tron and that is actually a really easy match up. They have a hard time dealing with all the disruption.
TKS...why on earth are any of you playing 1? That card is a house EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Seriously. 3 is the minimum you should play. I got the dream of landing it turn 2 against U Tron and I got 12 damage in before he could do anything about it. Ouch.
The problem with Matter Reshaper is he does nothing onboard immediately. If you are struggling with aggro, Strangler is better because he can kill a beater AND trade or be removed. The problem with Matter Reshaper lies in that they are giving you a random card off the top but keeping all their creatures alive. The ability to kill opposing creatures (especially utility creatures) is way too valuable IMO.
Ok quick tournament report from last night from my TNF 32 people
Round 1: Cruel Control (2-0) [1-0]
Grind grind grind win. Key play this round was when I hit his Keranos and a land (instead of Jace) with Newlamog cast trigger in game 2. I had seen he was on Cruel control after I surgically extracted a card early in the game. He was 1 mana short so I removed that out as best as I could. He also only had 2 cards in the yard so I was less concerned about Jace flipping anytime soon.
Round 2: Bant CoCo Goodstuff (1-1-1) [1-0-1]
Kind of frustrating round because while I took game 1 rather quickly, he used a knight of the reliquary to sift through his GQ->Tech Edge->Tech Edge game 2 and I was 1 mana short the entire game. Worst part is if I had 2 Swamps in the deck, I'd have been able to cast Flaying Tendrils and wiped his board. Unfortunately I had drawn 2/3 basics so the GQ fetched the 3rd and I got squat from there (off Paths). Game 3 I had him dead to rights but his inability to know his own outs and staying in tank mode let him draw the game to time. I seem to draw a lot of games with this deck because of this. It's usually less my own speed and more the folks who don't realize they either have no outs or what they need to draw to actually affect the board state.
Round 3: Soul Sisters with Tokens (0-2) [1-1-1]
This is where my luck really turned for the worse on the night. Game 1 I was getting beat down pretty quick but I eventually had a resolved Newlamog to stabilize with him top decking (I had 1 Scion and TKS back for blockers) and he had 47 cards in library when I get to untap with him. I swing in (27 cards in library). He draws and passes the turn. I blank on my draw but swing in again (6 cards in library). He casts Secure the Wastes at EOT for enough to lethal me (He topdecked a 2nd Honor the Pure the turn after I had cast Newlamog followed by the Secure the Wastes... ug terrible luck). Game 2 I managed to demolish his early game and was feeling pretty good but he ripped a Secure the Wastes followed by Honor the Pure to apply pressure to my life total. I managed to play defense and restabalized at 1 life but before I could retake the advantage, he topdecked a Spectral Procession into Squadron Hawk's (casting all 4) and I couldn't find an answer (somehow I found 0 board clears the entire game). Ug ohwell.
Round 4: Mono Black 8rack (1-2) [1-2-1]
Got stuck on 2 lands/3 mana game 1 and 3. Game 2 I discarded 2 Lingering Souls early and they did the work to close the game before he could get an answer.
All in all it was a meh and boring night. I was hoping to playtest against more fast aggro decks and test out my 2x Ratchet Bombs and 2x Porphyry Nodes I had in my SB for the night. I think I may end up going with Ratchet Bombs for their versatility. Nodes is a great T1/2 play against decks like Zoo, Elves and Merfolk because it essentially forces them to stop playing creatures for a turn or 2, or you get to blow up a creature a turn. Those couple extra turns could mean all the difference in those matchups. I'm still split but being able to crank Bombs to kill things like Ensnaring Bridge seems pretty good (because outside of Newlamog, it's really hard for us to get rid of multiple Bridges).
I think I might try and go back up to 2 Basic swamps in main. I easily lost a game that had I had another basic swamp in the deck, I'd have probably stabilized and won. I mainly say this because of the BB things in the sideboard. I'll probably cut a Godless Shrine for it.
I have absolutely loved All is Dust. It's just crazy good and even in the matchups where its awful (like affinity and tron) it's just a 1of that you can pull out for SB cards. Makes for easy cuts and it's upside is HUGE. I'd never go more than 1 though. I am with you in the consideration of moving up to 25 lands though.
Personally I love map. I initially played without them and I don't think they are required (though I'd do a 3/2 split of eye/urborg without) but playing with them seems to have increased my consistency since I can fetch the land I need. If I need a 3rd mana AND eldrazi mana I can get a temple. If the game is going to go long I can get the Eye. Sometimes I use it to fetch Bojuka Bog to turn on the processors like a T3 Strangler against Zoo. The main thing is the utility to get what you need. It becomes especially relevant against Burn to get Shambling Vents or Vault (depending on my own hand) or against Tron to get Ghost Quarters.
As for Stony Silence against Tron.. yeah it doesn't help on the play. What it does help is if you can stall them off of Tron early, it can help you close out the game. At that point it shuts off Eggs, Map and O-stone. Forcing them to get all the way up to normal mana can be back breaking. In my experience. It's a bad matchup for us. You just have to rip cards from there hand (remember that ripping ways to find tron isn't always the right call. Sometimes they'll have too much redundancy of those things and you should grab their top end (or way to get top end like Ancient Stirrings). Force them to draw into their endgame. You'd be surprised sometimes they will get terrible draws from that front. If you really want a T1 answer though, Evil Presence is a card you could slot in your SB for those matchups.
That's all I got for now. Next tournament is Thursday for me and should have a lot more normal decks which will help.
Very confused by a lot of this. Matter Reshaper does not "ramp" us in any way - it's not like he gives us a land or scion tokens. Also PTE on the Matter Reshaper does not trigger his ability (it is only on death) - you would just get a basic, same as if someone pathed your Strangler. And the value from Reshaper in this deck is questionable - you are very unlikely to hit another Matter Reshaper with him out, and that's the only permanent to possibly hit in the deck. Otherwise if/when he dies, you draw a random card in the deck. Strangler has a lot more potential value with killing a creature when he enters.
EDH: Rakdos, Lord of Riots
But only when he goes to the GY. It's better to ensure the 2 for 1 with strangler than hope to hit a land, relic or map with Reshaper.
This has been a ~30 page thread where most of those ideas were discussed and tried already.
If you want to try U/B chat with the ~90 page B/x eldrazi thread, they're still trying all sorts of different colors out.
I know a few of them are running U/B with Ashiok.
We can't and don't want to run BWUC Eldrazi.
There is also a UB thread under Deck Creation.
I have found that I either flood or get screwed pretty often with this deck. I also have to mull quite a bit more than I like. The manabase is really, really tight. I have experimented with 25 lands but I think that 24 and one Map is enough. But you are right that my colors are on the low end. Your balance is closer to ideal. But I definitely want several basics, because I see lots of GQ and Path played against me and I want to have a fighting chance against Blood Moon, which will shut down a ton of my deck now that I have Displacer, Seer, and Smasher added to the Stranglers, Paths, and Souls I was already running.
Fetid Heath is a card that has been useful as a 1-of in the deck as a 5th tri-land but it won't cast a T1 disruption and can lead to floating mana that I don't have a use for just so I can fix for my missing color.
I dig the land discussion and learning how people find their versions performing. Thanks to the forum for all the valuable feedback.
I haven't tried Displacer yet but that is because I'd have to find room for him. He just seems clunky and awkward to me. Does nothing on cast and even if you get him ASAP (which would be T2), he has to survive a turn just to start blinking creatures. He is great late game but I am just not sure. As far as mana sink... Essence Depleter doesn't look too bad. He gives you lifegain against burn, can block guide, swiftspear, Eidolon, and other such aggro creatures. Just a thought I saw from the Bx thread.
4 Blight Herder
4 Oblivion Sower
2 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
1 Warping Wail
4 Lingering Souls
2 Expedition Map
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Caves of Koilos
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Godless Shrine
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Marsh Flats
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pithing Needle
2 Spellskite
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Rest for the Weary
2 Disenchant
2 Stony Silence
1 Languish
2 Flaying Tendrils
Round 1: Land Destruction 2-0. This deck was designed to prey on big mana strats but I was still able to use blight herder scions to ramp into lategame. I made a misplay casting TKS G1 T3 where I mistakenly thought Eye reduced colorless cost by 2, though it only reduces it by 2 generic (I had Swamp,Plains,Eye), it was two turns later before either of us noticed so the game state seemed irrepairable. I don't think it really would have changed the outcome, but lesson learned. G2 his game plan works...but I'm still able to come out on top once I land a herder.
Round 2: Kiln Fiend 2-1. G1 I mull to 5 and keep a shady 5..dead by T4. G2 I IoK his one creature in hand and am able to close out before he gets anything going. G3 I'm able to Iok Kiln fiend into surgical and he can't recover.
Round 3: Bogles 2-1. G1 is very close. I'm able to keep his hand clear of the worst of the enchantments until I can get a sower down (pathed my own spirit to ramp into this) along with vault on the field. G2 he has a god hand and I have a hard time staying above water. G3 able to IoK bogle into surgical. He lands a gladecover scout and a few minor enchants but I already have too big of a board presence.
Round 4: Naya Burn 2-1. Great games all down to the wire, very talented burn player. Strangler into Thought-knot really shined here. Strangler was able to process an iok'd goblin guide from a relic activation to kill one of 2 swiftspears and force him to waste burn on it, Thought-knot next turn puts him behind...but he is able to still get close to burning me out before i can close. G2 is very similar but once I stabilize he burns me out. G3 I stabilize at 8, after a timely reinforcements 2 turns back...I have a large presence of herders and scions that will be lethal next turn. He eot's Boros Charm and Atarka's Command leaving me at 1...top deck.........Grim Lavamancer. Thrilling end.
Overall I am loving Surgical Extraction x2 main, really makes Strangler shine and turns him on T2. Warping Wail was only cast tonight as an eot scion to ramp into board presence and very nice to have.
Of the new cards, Flaying Tendrils has been one of the more surprising ones to me. During spoilers I was very meh on the card but I love it now. Much better than Drown in Sorrow because of the exile and with Twin gone and aggro picking up, it slots in nicely. I agree upon deck inception Nodes was hit or miss but with all the aggro running around, it can really do the work.. Still not totally sold on it but I think it's worth the relook.
RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron
R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries
Legacy:BRx Renimator
Playing right now: Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper