Just theory crafting here... but if the idea behind Simic is to get lower to the ground and be the aggro deck... does Vial still belong? No T1 creature means no T2 attack. Being able to play around sorcery speed removal and perform combat tricks is nice, but I may be more worried about running out of gas than I am getting cheap creatures onto the battlefield. What about something like Warriors' Lesson instead? Maybe add in a pair of Triton Shorestalkers to up the 1-drop count and improve the chances of drawing a few extra cards on T3? With the added card draw I'd probably cut 1-2 Reej and keep the curve as low as possible.
The reason Vial still belongs in aggro is that you only lose maybe 2 points of damage by turn 2 by playing a Vial versus creature (since the creature still gets vialed in on turn 2). The advantage of an additional 2-drop on turn 2 at instant speed usually balances this out: at a minimum, an extra lord plus your second turn creatures adds 2 more damage, equaling any early tempo lost by playing Vial. Everything after this is pure profit.
This is also part of the punch of CoCo. CoCoing in two lords can easily add 6 damage or more on turn 4. Alternatively, CoCoing in certain anti-creature effects (eg: Harbinger, Weaver, Warden) can be pure value at either the start of combat or EoT, while hitting Warden serves anti-spell purposes.
I agree, this is not as good as CoCo in Elves or Counters. But it's still damned good, and I'd try it if I were at all interested in the Tropical variant.
To note, I think almost all decks that uses CoCo (if not every deck) rely on mana dorks to have it available on the earliest turns possible. This is something we can't do and as a tribe that doesn't have mana dorks (like Elves). I don't think we could rely on it without kicking in some Hierarchs or something, that I don't fancy tbh.
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Mostly Modern Player RBridgevineB RGR/G EldraziX UBlue MoonR UU/W TronW
Kiora's Follower is a fish mana dork. Not that you should run it but it does allow T3 CoCo. Also has some utility untapping Aether Vial (although Vial+CoCo seems like a bridge WAY to far)
It is beginning to sound like fish can take an aggro approach, a grindy midrange approach, as well as the established tempo strat. I'm wondering if each deck might be tailored to one of those types instead of trying to do everything at once.
To note, I think almost all decks that uses CoCo (if not every deck) rely on mana dorks to have it available on the earliest turns possible. This is something we can't do and as a tribe that doesn't have mana dorks (like Elves). I don't think we could rely on it without kicking in some Hierarchs or something, that I don't fancy tbh.
Hierarch is actually great, and serves as a psuedolord and gets around ensnaring bridge. With all the new impactful 3 drops it will enable some busted plays. Maxing out on CoCo can still feel clunky even with the dork. I've found 3 to be the sweet spot in the past.
Kioras Follower has always felt underwhelming despite being merfolk. T1 is when I want my dork, and I would usually want to do something else on T2 with my mana. Also, since this is not a mana ability it can be weak to certain effects.
The real question is.. would an aggro strategy make us faster than the leading fast aggro decks, and will the loss of vial and more interactive Merfolk shave points off in the control and attrition matches
So this deck is obviously super not tuned at all. The sideboard is a lot of stuff I'm just testing out. Mostly just trying to see what its like having the deck be super low to the ground. I'll admit that it definitely feels like a totally different deck, even from the UG build from before. One thing I've noticed is that our game is definitely improved against control decks as we can fairly consistently win on turn 4 or 5. One thing I like about Merfolk Mistbinder is that it makes great bait for removal in the early game so if they slam a creature as a blocker and bolt/push/path away Mistbinder, we can slam a LOA or a Master and swing for unblockable damage. Gotta say though, definitely a one trick pony deck as we dont have many big tempo plays to make. Just head down and turn the 'folk sideways.
If anyone has any suggestions for this list I'd appreciate it. Manabase feels clunky as f*** and Mutavault feels increasingly more and more out of place.
What do you guys think about chalice of the void in the side?
It's been used at times in the past to battle certain metas. IF you are on the Simic plan I'd say no; too many 1 drops on your side. If you are mono blue it has game since it intetacts favorably with Dismember, but be aware of potential negative interactions with cards like Relic, Dispel, Ceremonious Rejection along with Vial and Cursecatcher.
Other problem is it potentially gives more targets to cards like Kologhans Command in DS/Grixis matchups.
So, while venturing into 2 colors, I'm trying to keep the deck really low to the ground and prioritize my 2 drops to have explosive vial games. In my test draws and test games I have yet to be screwed on the colors for the sideboard cards and for the mainboard Spreading Seas although I wouldnt run a green sideboard card like Natural State since I only have 8 green sources.
I think that the way to go with with a mistbinder build is to curve out @2cmc. I belive that it is the correct choise to go with 4x of both curse catcher and kumena's speaker. I would drop merrows and add some mainboard counterspells to protect your guys, the way i would play it is to aim at putting more creatures on the field quicker, wich makes us more more sensitive against boardwipes so maybe 1x kopala/glassspinner and 3x Spell pierce. /E
Unfortunately, Kopala and Kira don't protect us from board wipes. I've had some success with Heroic Intervention against board wipes but I wouldn't MB it.
Affinity: They're so much faster than us and we have very little interaction, both pre/post-board. Etched Champion is a nightmare. This is almost an autoloss and by far our worst matchup.
Ensnaring Bridge decks: Lantern, Rx prison, and Tezz builds can all be rough because pre-board we have no way to win through a resolved Bridge. Post-board it's a little better since you can bounce it / counter it / destroy it (UG versions only) but still heavily unfavored.
Faster / smaller go-wide creatures decks: Elves and Humans stand out here. Facing Elves is like facing Affinity; they vomit out their hand, are faster, and have access to a combo we can't interact much pre-board (Vizier+Druid+Ezuri). I actually don't have any experience facing Humans but I think they're favored. They can be bigger/grindier than us (unanswered Thalia's Lieutenant / Champion of the Parish), have reasonable disruption, and just enough reach with Flyers / Phantasmal Image.
Everything else is even-ish/40-60 range imo (BGx Midrange, various Shadow builds, various Tron builds, TitanShift, Jeskai, UW Control, Burn, GW Company, Taxes, Dredge, Storm, all-in combo, etc...)
Affinity: They're so much faster than us and we have very little interaction, both pre/post-board. Etched Champion is a nightmare. This is almost an autoloss and by far our worst matchup.
Lantern is by far the worst.
Affinity can be beaten. It was bad before, now they are "just" favored. For every Etched, we have Mutavault (if Copter is not available).
With Harbinger, Dismember/Snag/Gut Shot and Rejection this will never be autoloss.
Just made a Jeskai Tempo deck a few weeks ago and have a big modern tournament soon.
I know its silly ask in a merfolk forum wich deck should I use, but my faith is a little low on fishs. Jeskai has so many interactions and awnsers do everything. Very good to play; but fishs are in my heart.
How you guys doing in RL big events with fish ?? Still a strong choice ??
My meta is hard, lots of bad and hard matchups like affinity, BGx, Storm, Company....
Just made a Jeskai Tempo deck a few weeks ago and have a big modern tournament soon.
I know its silly ask in a merfolk forum wich deck should I use, but my faith is a little low on fishs. Jeskai has so many interactions and awnsers do everything. Very good to play; but fishs are in my heart.
How you guys doing in RL big events with fish ?? Still a strong choice ??
My meta is hard, lots of bad and hard matchups like affinity, BGx, Storm, Company....
My second deck is Blue Steel, almost the same deck, but mostly opposite matchups: loves Affinity, can win against Lantern, can shoot Elves, search for Pithing Needle, Relic or anything needed with Trinket against Devoted combo, shoot stuff with Ballista + Collar, has great game against Verdict (4 Copter, 2 Throne and whatever flex you have, like Swords or Bident + 4 Thorn and 4 Lodestone so that Verdict is not even close to being cast).
If you feel you only have bad matchups and like Jeskai, then I see no problem.
Can anyone explain why Negate sees more play than Unified Will currently???
I find that I'm virtually guaranteed to have more creatures than my opponent when Unified Will is going to be good in a MU and it just seems too powerful to be able to counter an opponents big creature or big planeswalker to sub it out for Negate instead.
I believe those counters will come in mostly vs combo and control. Vs combo, negate is almost strictly better since you dont need to counter creatures...referring to say, storm and ad nauseum. Verses control, we dont really care about creature, since we can get islandwalk, so again negate works better. I'd also say that against UWR control, they kill everything we have and could flash in snapcaster to make them have equal creatures
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Or maybe I'm just totally crazy.
This is also part of the punch of CoCo. CoCoing in two lords can easily add 6 damage or more on turn 4. Alternatively, CoCoing in certain anti-creature effects (eg: Harbinger, Weaver, Warden) can be pure value at either the start of combat or EoT, while hitting Warden serves anti-spell purposes.
I agree, this is not as good as CoCo in Elves or Counters. But it's still damned good, and I'd try it if I were at all interested in the Tropical variant.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
RBridgevineB
RGR/G EldraziX
UBlue MoonR
UU/W TronW
Hierarch is actually great, and serves as a psuedolord and gets around ensnaring bridge. With all the new impactful 3 drops it will enable some busted plays. Maxing out on CoCo can still feel clunky even with the dork. I've found 3 to be the sweet spot in the past.
Kioras Follower has always felt underwhelming despite being merfolk. T1 is when I want my dork, and I would usually want to do something else on T2 with my mana. Also, since this is not a mana ability it can be weak to certain effects.
The real question is.. would an aggro strategy make us faster than the leading fast aggro decks, and will the loss of vial and more interactive Merfolk shave points off in the control and attrition matches
4 Kumena's Speaker
4 Cursecatcher
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Silvergill Adept
3 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merfolk Mistbinder
2 Merrow Reejerey
4 Aether Vial
2 Spell Pierce
4 Spreading Seas
Land
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Botanical Sanctum
2 Breeding Pool
3 Mutavault
4 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Dismember
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Natural State
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Heroic Intervention
1 Negate
So this deck is obviously super not tuned at all. The sideboard is a lot of stuff I'm just testing out. Mostly just trying to see what its like having the deck be super low to the ground. I'll admit that it definitely feels like a totally different deck, even from the UG build from before. One thing I've noticed is that our game is definitely improved against control decks as we can fairly consistently win on turn 4 or 5. One thing I like about Merfolk Mistbinder is that it makes great bait for removal in the early game so if they slam a creature as a blocker and bolt/push/path away Mistbinder, we can slam a LOA or a Master and swing for unblockable damage. Gotta say though, definitely a one trick pony deck as we dont have many big tempo plays to make. Just head down and turn the 'folk sideways.
If anyone has any suggestions for this list I'd appreciate it. Manabase feels clunky as f*** and Mutavault feels increasingly more and more out of place.
Other problem is it potentially gives more targets to cards like Kologhans Command in DS/Grixis matchups.
4 Aether Vial
// 32 Creature
4 Cursecatcher
4 Kumena's Speaker
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merfolk Mistbinder
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Spreading Seas
// 20 Land
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Breeding Pool
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Kopala, Warden of Waves
1 Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca
2 Master of Waves
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Unified Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Echoing Truth
So, while venturing into 2 colors, I'm trying to keep the deck really low to the ground and prioritize my 2 drops to have explosive vial games. In my test draws and test games I have yet to be screwed on the colors for the sideboard cards and for the mainboard Spreading Seas although I wouldnt run a green sideboard card like Natural State since I only have 8 green sources.
Cursecatcher, Harbinger of the Tides, and Spreading Seas make a great 1st game disruptive suite. Then post side is tailored for the interactive experience.
Let me know what you think!
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
Unfortunately, Kopala and Kira don't protect us from board wipes. I've had some success with Heroic Intervention against board wipes but I wouldn't MB it.
Affinity: They're so much faster than us and we have very little interaction, both pre/post-board. Etched Champion is a nightmare. This is almost an autoloss and by far our worst matchup.
Ensnaring Bridge decks: Lantern, Rx prison, and Tezz builds can all be rough because pre-board we have no way to win through a resolved Bridge. Post-board it's a little better since you can bounce it / counter it / destroy it (UG versions only) but still heavily unfavored.
Faster / smaller go-wide creatures decks: Elves and Humans stand out here. Facing Elves is like facing Affinity; they vomit out their hand, are faster, and have access to a combo we can't interact much pre-board (Vizier+Druid+Ezuri). I actually don't have any experience facing Humans but I think they're favored. They can be bigger/grindier than us (unanswered Thalia's Lieutenant / Champion of the Parish), have reasonable disruption, and just enough reach with Flyers / Phantasmal Image.
Everything else is even-ish/40-60 range imo (BGx Midrange, various Shadow builds, various Tron builds, TitanShift, Jeskai, UW Control, Burn, GW Company, Taxes, Dredge, Storm, all-in combo, etc...)
Lantern is by far the worst.
Affinity can be beaten. It was bad before, now they are "just" favored. For every Etched, we have Mutavault (if Copter is not available).
With Harbinger, Dismember/Snag/Gut Shot and Rejection this will never be autoloss.
Just go read the primer, there is everything you need to know for every matchup.
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/the-cycles-of-rivals-of-ixalan/
Paragraph under Silvergill.
I know its silly ask in a merfolk forum wich deck should I use, but my faith is a little low on fishs. Jeskai has so many interactions and awnsers do everything. Very good to play; but fishs are in my heart.
How you guys doing in RL big events with fish ?? Still a strong choice ??
My meta is hard, lots of bad and hard matchups like affinity, BGx, Storm, Company....
My second deck is Blue Steel, almost the same deck, but mostly opposite matchups: loves Affinity, can win against Lantern, can shoot Elves, search for Pithing Needle, Relic or anything needed with Trinket against Devoted combo, shoot stuff with Ballista + Collar, has great game against Verdict (4 Copter, 2 Throne and whatever flex you have, like Swords or Bident + 4 Thorn and 4 Lodestone so that Verdict is not even close to being cast).
If you feel you only have bad matchups and like Jeskai, then I see no problem.
I find that I'm virtually guaranteed to have more creatures than my opponent when Unified Will is going to be good in a MU and it just seems too powerful to be able to counter an opponents big creature or big planeswalker to sub it out for Negate instead.