MTG Salvation

Quote from Waffler4 »

I think the biggest problem with Zur, is that you need to attack with it to get retreat, meaning that even if you have the knight you can't combo off until the next turn, which seems slow to me. Have you tested with it at all?
I've been using Commune with the Gods as a way to look for both pieces and stock the yard, and it's been pretty good.

While I am not on board with the Zur idea, you can save an uncracked fetch, swing with both Knight and Zur, crack the fetch after retreat comes in to go off

ok, so.......Oath of Nissa??? Reflector Mage?? Amiright??? Seems like the bant shell is getting better.

Quote from MantisRider »

ok, so.......Oath of Nissa??? Reflector Mage?? Amiright??? Seems like the bant shell is getting better.

Oath of nissa might work in the midrange build as a pseudo serum vision, as for reflector mage I don't think it's good, if only he have flash then he would be good against merfolk.

Chord of calling is the closest we can get to flashing permanents in play, so i wouldn't completely right off reflector mage.

Reflector Mage is good but nothing you really want to commit to, probably a 1-of if you follow the chord/Collected company builds for added utility

Quote from ghepip »

Quote from shiwei87tan »

Quote from MantisRider »

ok, so.......Oath of Nissa??? Reflector Mage?? Amiright??? Seems like the bant shell is getting better.

Oath of nissa might work in the midrange build as a pseudo serum vision, as for reflector mage I don't think it's good, if only he have flash then he would be good against merfolk.

Why do you specifically mention merfolk?
It's not like merfolk is a hard match for us, I would rather have reflector mage for goys, tasigurs, dwellers, wurmcoils, eidelons, primetimes, elesh norn, and many other hard hitters.
Merfolk is just a race.

Why do I can't specifically mention merfolk?

Either way, spoiler discussion isn't allowed.

Oath of Nissa is really solid if you play a conventionally curved deck with serum visions -- 4 oaths and 4 serum visions with say, a singleton colonnade or something, presents a really solid pool of 1-drops that are not as vulnerable to removal. The nice part of that is that you can avoid playing mana dorks entirely and play more 2-drops -- the cluster at 3 with mana dorks has always been my least favorite part of the deck, since if you didn't draw a dork or it got bolted it really hurt.

Being able to dig for Elspeth if you choose to play her is also insanely good.

Not sure it's ideal, but it's a neat angle for sure. Most likely best with the Thalia+voice+ooze model.

Blade splicer's a 3-drop, but I'd play Thalia (4), Voice (4), and Scooze (2-3), or hangarback walker.. I'd just skip worrying about exalted and play Gavony Township.

If you opt for the 8 cantrips 1-drop slot, you shouldn't be playing any dorks. Just filter and dig and try to combo off on turn 4.

There's a lot of incentive to play hangarback walker and goyf with nissa's as well, as you could get some pretty huge goyfs and just win that way sometimes.

Pridemage is also not too bad.

Note: More than likely this deck loses to Twin pretty hard, especially on the draw, so you need to be playing quite a bit of twin hate in the side, and probably dromoka's command + path main.

You probably want to look at Jund and pretty much straight up copy their curve.

So how do we fare against these new Eldrazi decks?

It's a legendary enchantment and the best effect is when you cast it to draw. So if you have one in play, you cast another, legendary makes you pick one to keep.

So I played another ~35 person event this weekend, playing the same list I've posted many times before and has done quite well. This weekend didn't go as well as previous events - the deck was on a 14 match winning streak had not lost a tourny match since oct. I finished 4-2 to top 8 on a shaky performance making several mistakes.

In top 8, I managed to really blow it. This is for all you players talking about not playing sejiri steppe - this is what can happen when you don't play the card and what I have been trying to warn against.

So game 3, I have a slow start but hit my turn 3 knight. Opponent untaps, plays a two-drop and passes with one white mana open. Since he let the knight live to untap, I figured he had to be bluffing removal. On my main phase, I cast retreat, and again he simply lets it resolve. So I proceed to combo out (no bird in play), and swing for 22 with two fetches left in play. He plays the path, and I react with the fetch, only to realize that I didn't leave a fetchable land in play to get steppe with. This ended the game on the spot: all my lands were in the yard and I was never going to cast another spell in the game.

This is what I'm talking about when I say that omitting steppe is dangerous - they can let you combo out and then remove the knight if they know its not in your deck which can be an instant loss. In this instance, I simulated that experience by failing to leave a land in the deck (I thought I had, just an execution error after I was 99.9% sure he wasn't holding path).

On a side note, I did play against BW Eldrazi and won 2-0... although I feel the matchup should be bad for us, the combo got there one game while the beatdown go there another.

For one, I'm willing to bet I've lost far more games to having to play around a bad tapland in my opener than I've lost to comboing out and having knight removed. I still think it's a viable choice, and probably the right choice if you're on the zoo plan as well. What's your current list looking like? Do you think Reflector Mage might have a home? Idk why I'm so on that card atm, but it just seems sweet to me.

Naw, I don't see that card replacing anything in my deck. For instance, Lyev Skyknight offers similar tactical functionality but sees no play. It could also be compared to flickerwisp, which is much more versatile for any role you might consider Reflector Mage for. I guess having to recast the spell is upside for the reflector mage, but the lack of evasion and flexibility makes it weaker than other options available.

It does remind me of Harbinger of the Tides, but without flash is much worse.

Recently I've been trying this build, Knightfall plus "bogles", what do you guys think? I'm thinking of increasing the number of Qasali and moving scavenging to the main but not sure what to remove. Not sure if Elspeth in the side is useful or not or if I should remove it but she with worship could win games.

I would only offer that my list has been consistently performing well, and can be found a couple posts up. We share some similarities, but I also think I see some issues such as the manabase (island, gavony, superfluous breeding pool and hallowed fountain) and maindeck finks + clique (SB cards unless meta call). I don't like having spells in the sideboard, as collected company will increase the likelihood that you see any creatures from the SB but can't help other spells.

Responses to your thoughts:

- Maybe 3 Geist of Saint traft is too much (Geist was either super bad or insanely good)
Nope, but I have 3 Rhox war monk (better than finks against Anger of the gods) in my board as the perfect card to swap in against fair decks/aggro and even jund.
- Maybe I should put 2 pridemages back into my mainboard
Agreed, while they can be dead at times, at worst they are watchwolf, and frequently a lot more.
- does it really make sense to play V-Clique in this deck?
Only in SB is my experience, you'll likely find Eternal witness to be far superior in the maindeck
- Do I have to play more Kitchen Finks, because the manabase costs tons of life?
Try to fetch basics first, that should save you tons of life. Normally I'll fetch a forest and a plains before getting anything else. We don't need U or R right away ... although sometimes i'll get a blue shock if the hand calls for it. At least one basic to start though. I find the manabase to be fairly painless.
- Does this deck have any good matchups or do I just have to practice practice practice?
I see a lot of people struggling with this deck, but my experience has been very positive. Perhaps more experience?
- I had a lot of fun despite losing nearly every match
Great!

What do you guys think of Void grafter?

Guys. What's the comparison between full bant or adding red? I've seen a few lists lately with red adding Nacatl's, bolts and board cards. Personally I like the red, but does that make it less consistent?

Quote from shiwei87tan »

What do you guys think of Void grafter?

Worse plaxmanta?

Ok not strictly worse, it at least doesn't die from chord/coco. But I don't think going from 2 to 3 mana for 2 toughness and ability to target with chord/coco does much.

Quote from Herotime »

Guys. What's the comparison between full bant or adding red? I've seen a few lists lately with red adding Nacatl's, bolts and board cards. Personally I like the red, but does that make it less consistent?

Check my sig, knightfall zoo. Been very happy with it, regularly top 8ing my competitive modern fnm.