So I've been playing a little Knightfall here and there and had the random tought of adding the Vizier/Druid combo to it, since both run in a Company shell anyway. Then I thought, well somebody must have had that idea before me, let me look if I find some lists...awesome to see that deck could actually have some legs!
My deck is pretty similar to Deus837's but:
-1x Birds
-1x E-Wit
-1x Reflector Mage
+2x Voice of Resurgence
+1x Quasali Pridemage
I honestly never liked how many 3-drops original Knightfall runs, it makes for really awkward hand if you don't have a dork, or the dork gets killed or thoughtseized or whatever. It obviously makes your Companies a lot better, but modern is so fast or disruptive that I'd rather have something lower to the ground.
I took the list for some rounds on Cockatrice over the last two days and had a blast!
Cockatrice is known for not really having good competitive players and I probably got a little lucky I won all of the 7 games I played!
Playing against Burn, UW control, 4-colour-Death Shadow, Esper Shadow, Grishoalbrand, Turns and Affinity.
Deck was tons of fun, actually never comboed out with KotR but multiple times with Vizier/Druid. Definitely made some misplays here and there and the decklist is very raw still but I definitely see potential.
Will continue testing over the weekend and then maybe it's time to buy some Viziers (while looking through my cards I found out that I actually already have a playset of Druids haha).
So I've been playing a little Knightfall here and there and had the random tought of adding the Vizier/Druid combo to it, since both run in a Company shell anyway. Then I thought, well somebody must have had that idea before me, let me look if I find some lists...awesome to see that deck could actually have some legs!
My deck is pretty similar to Deus837's but:
-1x Birds
-1x E-Wit
-1x Reflector Mage
+2x Voice of Resurgence
+1x Quasali Pridemage
I honestly never liked how many 3-drops original Knightfall runs, it makes for really awkward hand if you don't have a dork, or the dork gets killed or thoughtseized or whatever. It obviously makes your Companies a lot better, but modern is so fast or disruptive that I'd rather have something lower to the ground.
I took the list for some rounds on Cockatrice over the last two days and had a blast!
Cockatrice is known for not really having good competitive players and I probably got a little lucky I won all of the 7 games I played!
Playing against Burn, UW control, 4-colour-Death Shadow, Esper Shadow, Grishoalbrand, Turns and Affinity.
Deck was tons of fun, actually never comboed out with KotR but multiple times with Vizier/Druid. Definitely made some misplays here and there and the decklist is very raw still but I definitely see potential.
Will continue testing over the weekend and then maybe it's time to buy some Viziers (while looking through my cards I found out that I actually already have a playset of Druids haha).
Nice!
I was also skeptical of the number of 3 drops in most lists, but in this one it seems right because we're running 10-11 dorks including Druid. Putting Voice back in is interesting though (after all I was saying that losing Voice was a major downside against Grixis, so why not put it back in). How has Voice been performing for you?
Voice did tons of work against UW control and was very solid against both death's shadow decks I faced.
I guess it definitely depens on your meta, but it's a great way to get some grinding potential and a potentially pretty big beater for only 2 mana.
A thing to keep in mind is that by adding a 2 cmc mana dork in Druid, two drops become even more important as he allows you to play 2 2-drops on turn 3, or even a 2- and a 3-drop (only wanna do this if you really need to race though. A Druid with a counter on it gets useless for Vizier later on). I'm 11 2-drops and 12-drops now and so far that feels pretty good.
I'm also thinking of replacing my singleton Gavony Township with another Kessig Wolf Run. Giving trample is super relevant in a metagame with lots of Lingering Souls, another enabler to naturally draw for the Vizier/Druid combo doesn't hurt, without Finks we don't have that super sweet synergy, KWR is better with exalted, also pretty good with flyers we play to close out a game...opinions?
Voice did tons of work against UW control and was very solid against both death's shadow decks I faced.
I guess it definitely depens on your meta, but it's a great way to get some grinding potential and a potentially pretty big beater for only 2 mana.
A thing to keep in mind is that by adding a 2 cmc mana dork in Druid, two drops become even more important as he allows you to play 2 2-drops on turn 3, or even a 2- and a 3-drop (only wanna do this if you really need to race though. A Druid with a counter on it gets useless for Vizier later on). I'm 11 2-drops and 12-drops now and so far that feels pretty good.
I'm also thinking of replacing my singleton Gavony Township with another Kessig Wolf Run. Giving trample is super relevant in a metagame with lots of Lingering Souls, another enabler to naturally draw for the Vizier/Druid combo doesn't hurt, without Finks we don't have that super sweet synergy, KWR is better with exalted, also pretty good with flyers we play to close out a game...opinions?
It's tough to say. Having Gavony in the deck has won me some games, and it's easier to activate than Wolf Run. That being said, Wolf Run is a combo piece AND good on its own. I think it's worth exploring a configuration that forgoes Gavony for Wolf Run.
I don't understand what you mean about Druid with a counter being useless for Vizier though? That's just not true at all. The Vizier prevents any further counters being put on it. It's true of Kitchen Finks but not of Druid.
I don't understand what you mean about Druid with a counter being useless for Vizier though? That's just not true at all. The Vizier prevents any further counters being put on it. It's true of Kitchen Finks but not of Druid.
Yeah, you're right. It was pretty late night when I wrote that, don't know what I was thinking.
I've been thinking about a slightly more combo oriented list with traverse the ulvenwald and a hatebear package. Would really like a bit of feedback/opinions. Thanks in advance!
I've been thinking about a slightly more combo oriented list with traverse the ulvenwald and a hatebear package. Would really like a bit of feedback/opinions. Thanks in advance!
I echo all this man, I think Knightfall has game, but it's tough when queller is in what feels like a bad spot right now and we don't have the explosive clock (obviously except for retreat) like other decks do atm. I'm personally gonna try GW vizier company with knight and see how that goes too, i'd rather not buy into the abzan lands/more finks but maybe thats just better.
For knightfall, I have added the two cobra because it does help with the lack of explosiveness in some games. Malkomann had talked to me a bit about mirran crusader which does seem like an interesting creature that may be worth testing. For me, i think more graveyard hate is necessary for the knightfall now as we can lose quick to dredge or living end, and it helps vs shadow and vizier combo decks. I'm going with 3 ooze main, and 2 surgical side (can use right away before things go bad) in addition to a bog side too. Heres where i am: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/07-03-17-Eul-bant-knightfall/ man do i want another tracker, but I'm not sure i can afford to cut anything else right now for it.
I haven't posted since joining either TNDS and want to keep this conversation going as well! I really like the addition of oath of nissa to some lists and am looking forward to testing it this weekend. Graffdigger's Cage is a very popular sideboard card and I've been seeing it a lot lately. Oath of Nissa is a way to dig for combo pieces that plays around cage and doesn't leave us at the mercy of our draws. It also lets us comfortably run less lands as oath of nissa can find those as well. These GW builds with knight of the reliquary look promising as its nice to play strong threats like knight, in addition to the vizier combo, that can tutor for alternate win conditions like gavony township and kessig wolf run, while also having a mana base that is more resilient to blood moon and less taxing on the life total. That being said, while playing a straight GW version this past week, I haven't really missed retreat to coralhelm. But I do miss reflector mage, spell queller, izzet staticaster, meddling mage and counter spells. Fairgrounds warden, engineered explosives and gaddock teeg/eidolon of rhetoric have been decent replacements for some of what i've been missing. I will post more after testing with oath of nissa in the GW version.
This might be a bit premature, but I'm really excited for the newly-leaked Ramunap Excavator. 2/3 Naga Cleric for 2 and a G that lets you play lands from the graveyard. It's a Crucible of Worlds that can be hit off Collected Company! Most notably, it allows for reliable landfall triggers even after Knightfall has partially or fully combo'd off, either for repeated lifegain with Courser, Clues with Tracker, or just keeping your opponent's fatty tapped down with a fetchland + Retreat to Coralhelm. It also lets us Ghost Quarter lock opponents. For context, I'm planning on sticking to the Bant shell without the Vizier/Druid combo.
Guys, do you board out Spell Queller in attrition based matchups or do you keep him in?
He might be a good beater against Jund or Grixis Control, but the counter is pretty useless if he eats a removal sraight afterwords right?
Newly spoiled: Ramunap Excavator aka Crucible of Worlds on a stick. Oh boy. This card looks very interesting for the traditional list. It's a better fit in the Todd Stevens GW value town list though. Perhaps some hybrid of that deck and Knightfall could make good use of this?
Yes, the crucible creature is great for sure. I'll test him in GW company with 4 ghost quarters.
I was going to ask the same about the humans lists that I saw on mtggoldfish. Tribals are obviously powerful but how is that deck better than knightfall? If someone can give some insight it would be awesome
For one, it puts up more damage early on. It's also decently disruptive with both thalias, sin collector and reflector mage. There's also no real 'must kill' creatures in that deck like we have with Knight so it's harder to get mileage out of removal against humans and even their weakest craetures can grow pretty big with some lieutenant triggers.
Not being soft to graveyard hate is a plus and enables better sideboard options but also weak to a graffdigger's cage. Doesn't seem to have any really bad pre-board matchups either.
The mana-base can be wonky sometimes when you need to cast stuff like staticaster, anafenza and you don't have a cavern/confluence out because your mana dorks don't produce black or red.
I would say it plays the tempo game better than Knightfall against the higher-tier 1 decks. But of course Knightfall generates more value over a longer game.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
Yeah GoST great points. I should maybe try this out at FNM just for fun. Maybe with Knight in it? lol.
Hey anybody have any update to knightfall with vizier combo in it? I'm interesting in testing it.
Kelvin Chew just posted a guide to Vizier Knightfall on MTG Mint. It looks interesting, but i'm still on the fence. I'll need to proxy up some of the cards and playtest.
How has the Reflector Mage version been performing against Grixis for you? It does seem like Reflector Mage is very well positioned right now but I don't love the idea of losing Queller... still, if it can get that matchup to favorable territory I might consider it.
I have been trying the 4x reflector mages main deck in Knightfall as well on MTGO. And in the current meta infested by death's shadow it's really good. As Kelvin said, Modern is dominated by creature decks and reflector mage represents an insane tempo gain. it teams up so well with spell queller and collected company. I don't miss the 3 value creatures (2/1 split of tracker and courser) and the one 1 selfless spirit that i cut for the 4x reflector. But i changed my sideboard to include 2x tireless trackers for the grindy match ups.
I tried and did not like Vizier Knightfall...the deck is not good against death's shadow/Burn/Eldra Tron and I feel like if you want to sleeve up the devoted druid combo, you'd better do it in Abzan CoCo where at least the 4x vizier of remedies have a double use with kitchen finks. Such a dead card on it's own.
By the way MalkoMann, how did you do at GP Copenhagen? I believe that you said you were going there with Knightfall?
Recently started running 4 reflector mage main deck as well and it's been working out good for me so far.I keep 2 selfless spirits and run only 2 each of voice and ooze.
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My deck is pretty similar to Deus837's but:
-1x Birds
-1x E-Wit
-1x Reflector Mage
+2x Voice of Resurgence
+1x Quasali Pridemage
I honestly never liked how many 3-drops original Knightfall runs, it makes for really awkward hand if you don't have a dork, or the dork gets killed or thoughtseized or whatever. It obviously makes your Companies a lot better, but modern is so fast or disruptive that I'd rather have something lower to the ground.
I took the list for some rounds on Cockatrice over the last two days and had a blast!
Cockatrice is known for not really having good competitive players and I probably got a little lucky I won all of the 7 games I played!
Playing against Burn, UW control, 4-colour-Death Shadow, Esper Shadow, Grishoalbrand, Turns and Affinity.
Deck was tons of fun, actually never comboed out with KotR but multiple times with Vizier/Druid. Definitely made some misplays here and there and the decklist is very raw still but I definitely see potential.
Will continue testing over the weekend and then maybe it's time to buy some Viziers (while looking through my cards I found out that I actually already have a playset of Druids haha).
Nice!
I was also skeptical of the number of 3 drops in most lists, but in this one it seems right because we're running 10-11 dorks including Druid. Putting Voice back in is interesting though (after all I was saying that losing Voice was a major downside against Grixis, so why not put it back in). How has Voice been performing for you?
GWU Knightfall Spirit Company GWU
GWB Abzan Evolution GWB
I guess it definitely depens on your meta, but it's a great way to get some grinding potential and a potentially pretty big beater for only 2 mana.
A thing to keep in mind is that by adding a 2 cmc mana dork in Druid, two drops become even more important as he allows you to play 2 2-drops on turn 3, or even a 2- and a 3-drop (only wanna do this if you really need to race though. A Druid with a counter on it gets useless for Vizier later on). I'm 11 2-drops and 12-drops now and so far that feels pretty good.
I'm also thinking of replacing my singleton Gavony Township with another Kessig Wolf Run. Giving trample is super relevant in a metagame with lots of Lingering Souls, another enabler to naturally draw for the Vizier/Druid combo doesn't hurt, without Finks we don't have that super sweet synergy, KWR is better with exalted, also pretty good with flyers we play to close out a game...opinions?
It's tough to say. Having Gavony in the deck has won me some games, and it's easier to activate than Wolf Run. That being said, Wolf Run is a combo piece AND good on its own. I think it's worth exploring a configuration that forgoes Gavony for Wolf Run.
I don't understand what you mean about Druid with a counter being useless for Vizier though? That's just not true at all. The Vizier prevents any further counters being put on it. It's true of Kitchen Finks but not of Druid.
GWU Knightfall Spirit Company GWU
GWB Abzan Evolution GWB
Yeah, you're right. It was pretty late night when I wrote that, don't know what I was thinking.
For knightfall, I have added the two cobra because it does help with the lack of explosiveness in some games. Malkomann had talked to me a bit about mirran crusader which does seem like an interesting creature that may be worth testing. For me, i think more graveyard hate is necessary for the knightfall now as we can lose quick to dredge or living end, and it helps vs shadow and vizier combo decks. I'm going with 3 ooze main, and 2 surgical side (can use right away before things go bad) in addition to a bog side too. Heres where i am: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/07-03-17-Eul-bant-knightfall/ man do i want another tracker, but I'm not sure i can afford to cut anything else right now for it.
He might be a good beater against Jund or Grixis Control, but the counter is pretty useless if he eats a removal sraight afterwords right?
GWU Knightfall Spirit Company GWU
GWB Abzan Evolution GWB
Also, how do you guys feel about all these humans company lists that are winning lately?
I was going to ask the same about the humans lists that I saw on mtggoldfish. Tribals are obviously powerful but how is that deck better than knightfall? If someone can give some insight it would be awesome
L: Maverick
Not being soft to graveyard hate is a plus and enables better sideboard options but also weak to a graffdigger's cage. Doesn't seem to have any really bad pre-board matchups either.
The mana-base can be wonky sometimes when you need to cast stuff like staticaster, anafenza and you don't have a cavern/confluence out because your mana dorks don't produce black or red.
I would say it plays the tempo game better than Knightfall against the higher-tier 1 decks. But of course Knightfall generates more value over a longer game.
Hey anybody have any update to knightfall with vizier combo in it? I'm interesting in testing it.
Kelvin Chew just posted a guide to Vizier Knightfall on MTG Mint. It looks interesting, but i'm still on the fence. I'll need to proxy up some of the cards and playtest.
GWU Knightfall Spirit Company GWU
GWB Abzan Evolution GWB
I tried and did not like Vizier Knightfall...the deck is not good against death's shadow/Burn/Eldra Tron and I feel like if you want to sleeve up the devoted druid combo, you'd better do it in Abzan CoCo where at least the 4x vizier of remedies have a double use with kitchen finks. Such a dead card on it's own.
By the way MalkoMann, how did you do at GP Copenhagen? I believe that you said you were going there with Knightfall?