I placed in the top 32 today at SCG Milwaukee with some of our latest tech. I lost to Scapeshift and Burn #1. Won against Burn #2, RG Tron, Jund #1, Jund #2, Living End, and Infect. Rise // Fall of Tourach continued to impress. Death's Shadow was the day's MVP - they were especially great against the Living End army. I was suicidally fetch-shocking myself into oblivion to pump them.
I'm thinking that 2 Kommand and 2 Rise // Fall might be too much. 3 between the two maindeck might be best. Maybe drop 1 Kommand for another Terminate? Or a Cruel Edict or a Go For The Throat or something... I dunno, though. Talk me off the cliff..
I have the same doubt. I'm going to a big tournament in about 10 days, 90% I'll play with Delver, and the only doubt I still have about my list is precisely that one. It's complicated because there are games where 2x Kolaghan and 2x Rise//Fall seems too much, but there are others where I'm glad to have both these cards in double copy. I kind of figured out I'm not cutting Command, I feel two are needed, it is a crucial card against Affinity and Jund, two MUs I want to be in my favor. So if I have to cut one, I'll probably cut one Rise//Fall. But again, I'm not sure I should. Sometimes it is the best card in the deck, and it's a great maindeck card, very versatile allowing multiples strategies and can be easily replaced in game 2 and 3 when I need more specific answers. Is is a card I always want to draw against Tron, a MU I still have issues with. I really don't know. I'm not sure a random 1x maindeck Forked Bolt would be better, nor the 4th Probe, nor the third Pyromancer.
I hear you. While I do love Rise//Fall I think you're right and cutting one is probably safer than a Kommand. You can always cast Kommand. I do not think Forked Bolt, 4th Probe, or Pyro is where we want to be.
My latest thinking has actually been going a different direction entirely: Shadow of Doubt or Trickbind. Shadow cantrips which is important, but is narrower. Trickbind has more utility (esepcially now that Living End is a thing again). Both are equally unexpected and can completely blow out the game.
To the Vampiric Link people - I still haven't tried out it but I'm going to counter argue it again! I promise I'll try it when I get some time.
I still like Death's Shadow though. He is truly and ultimately the best tempo play you can be making in a lot of situations, being potentially a 12/12 for 1 mana. I like to look at him like Tasigur and Angler, you have to know when to leverage him, and how much of your resource you want to sacrifice to set him up (Delving away key cards to get them out vs Life). Now obviously you aren't going to lose if you make a mistake delving away something you need, but I hope you understand the point I'm trying to make. Death's Shadow is a very hard card to play correctly, and I still feel like I haven't come close to playing him good enough to make an evaluation on him.
I'm not sure if he is better than Vampiric Link or Dragon's Claw in the burn MU. I think he gets the advantage of blanking however many Destructive Revelry get sided in and avoids you not gaining any life off an Angler/Tasi swing because of Atarka's Command or Skullcrack, but overall he is without a doubt more swingy and less reliable.
He can also be amazing in some of the creature based aggro matchups. I don't get to play as much as I'd like so I haven't tested it extensively, but I do sometimes side out a Delver/Young Pyromancer or two and bring him in against Affinity and Merfolk where chumping with tokens isn't very reliable or otherwise too slow to race. Going down to 3 Delvers and 2 Pyromancers to bring in two Death's Shadows has definitely helped me win some games. I will acknowledge the problem that some of these decks just go for "critical mass" type attacks where you get put in an awkward place where you can't play him one turn and it's too late when you drop him the next turn.
I agree, Shadow is really hard to use correctly. Hypothetical: late game, Shadow in play, topdeck shock-land, play untapped? y/n?
Shadow and Link both share one issue: they are both highly situational. Link requires a creature in play. Shadow requires you to be quite dead. When Shadow is bad, it is *really* bad. Consider drawing heavily into answers vs an aggro player. You stabilize early and are hovering around 14 or 15 life with no threats in hand than a Shadow. Link has a little bit more versatility in that you can at least cast it on your opponents creatures. But Link won't win you the game! It is worth noting the two are not mutually exclusive. In some situations both come in. I have even considered casting Link on my own Shadow (swing for 10 or something, gain 10, Shadow dies, pound in next turn for the win, etc.)
I do not like Claw. I think it is too narrow right now. I want my SB cards to be useful in multiple MUs. There aren't enough red cards in our deck to make it worth it.
I agree with Lincae. Affinity is a good matchup. Merfolk is rough because they can mess with your mana with Spreading Seas. I have Murderous Cut main deck specifically for Master of Waves and it does a nice job of killing Kor Firewalker too.
Tron is rough. I've used Blood Moon to good effect, but it usually has to be on time to really mess them up. I'm still wondering if Fulminator Mage/Rise//Fall is enough to disrupt them. Seems like some people have been having success with them. Fulminator also kills Blinkmoth/Inkmoth Nexus, Mutavault, Pendelhaven, Creeping Tar Pit and Celestial Colonnade so it's not like it's dead in other matchups. Might be worth the sideboard slots.
I'm just curious, why has this deck moved away from counter spells to kill spells and grind value(rise/fall)? Notably I'm noticing a lack of spell pierce/spell snares~ can someone shed some light? I am still on the list without rise and fall and haven't tested it's use yet.
Just an opinion based on 20 games vs my 2 friends (RG Tron and UW/U Tron), I've found that if I can stick a delver T1//T2 Tasigur and hold up Mana leak/deprive/spell pierce/spell snare, my games vs tron tend to go quite well even if they attempt to run a T3 Karn or Wurmcoil. Typically a close 50/50 or slightly in our favor... but that just could be from limited testing.
Usually if they know they have to respect a M.leak or pierce, this will delay the 1-2 turns we need to clinch the game with our early threats. I'm not sure how if that would workout if we're playing heavier on the terminates and rise//fall package
Also, regarding the burn matches, it seems the lists running more terminates and rise//fall looks to concede G1 and hope to take it G2. Thoughts on this?My experience is that I've found the counter heavy (8+ counters) tend to lead to a 50/50 match up and in our favor G2. I used to run more terminates before the 2/2 split of pierce and snare inclusion and my burn matchup felt impossible to win G1.
But I guess the list changes slightly according to your meta? Burn is always around in mine.
I've tried Abbot and I find him lackluster in my delver list (counterspell heavy) and I think he functions better in blue jund/jund or Chapin's Temur Tempo. Obviously, my two cents...
Players have moved to grind value for more grind heavy metas, I still am 100% behind 2 mana leak, 2 snare, 2 spell pierce main board since I have a pretty open meta at my shop. Rise/fall is a strong card knowing your meta will be slower, but I prefer having my counter magic suit ready to go. Like you said, tron is an even matchup and depends on how players actually play and that will determine the match. Personally, i found the more burn we have in the games, the higher of a chance we have of beating them. I expect tron to pop up a lot now thanks to BFZ giving them a few new toys like the new Ulamog and the eldrazi that makes your opponents "can't even"
I don't see a lot of burn in my meta so that is why I like the Abbots and fewer counter spells. I will agree the matchup seems pretty tough without all the counters.
I'm interested in porting my Legacy deck (Grixis Delver) over to modern. What can I expect in regards to tournament performance? I see it's not T1, but does the deck get completely blown out by the T1 decks?
For example: My buddy plays Affinity, do I just get rekt by it?
I live sort-of near CFB, but I assume that the meta there is extremely competitive, so I probably won't play much there lol.
Your performance is going to be largely dependent on how familiar you become with the match ups. This deck definitely doesn't drive itself. With over half the cards CMC 1 or 0 there are more lines in this deck than you realize (just yesterday I did about 6 things on turn 2). With this deck more than others (I think), understanding what you're up against turn 1 is important. Do you jam a threat? Keep countermagic up? Bolt their dork? Is it safe to fetch-shock-serum or should you wait...
Check out the first post in this primer for MU notes but here are my thoughts:
Scanning what is considered T1 right now - Grixis Control, RUG/Grixis/UR Twin, Burn, Jund, Affinity, Merfolk - I feel fine against all of them. Burn is probably the most unforgiving (in a recent game, I took a full minute figuring out my turn 1 land to minimize self-inflicted pain). We go toe-to-toe with Grixis Control and the Twins. Jund is about 50/50 for me. It really depends on how much hand disruption they get off and if they can stick a Lilly. Affinity is a great MU with maindecking Kommands. I haven't played much Merfolk.
I'm interested in porting my Legacy deck (Grixis Delver) over to modern. What can I expect in regards to tournament performance? I see it's not T1, but does the deck get completely blown out by the T1 decks?
For example: My buddy plays Affinity, do I just get rekt by it?
I live sort-of near CFB, but I assume that the meta there is extremely competitive, so I probably won't play much there lol.
Your performance is going to be largely dependent on how familiar you become with the match ups. This deck definitely doesn't drive itself. With over half the cards CMC 1 or 0 there are more lines in this deck than you realize (just yesterday I did about 6 things on turn 2). With this deck more than others (I think), understanding what you're up against turn 1 is important. Do you jam a threat? Keep countermagic up? Bolt their dork? Is it safe to fetch-shock-serum or should you wait...
Check out the first post in this primer for MU notes but here are my thoughts:
Scanning what is considered T1 right now - Grixis Control, RUG/Grixis/UR Twin, Burn, Jund, Affinity, Merfolk - I feel fine against all of them. Burn is probably the most unforgiving (in a recent game, I took a full minute figuring out my turn 1 land to minimize self-inflicted pain). We go toe-to-toe with Grixis Control and the Twins. Jund is about 50/50 for me. It really depends on how much hand disruption they get off and if they can stick a Lilly. Affinity is a great MU with maindecking Kommands. I haven't played much Merfolk.
Sounds similar to the lines that get taken in legacy grixis delver, and honestly the line that alot of the tempo control decks I've played in the past.
Sounds like it's worth sleeving up and playing, to me. It also sounds like grixis delver is fairly close to being T1 itself. Or Modern is becoming similar to legacy, in the sense that "established decks" can all do well and any notion of "tiers" is pretty blurry.
Thought Scour/Serum Visions as cantrips make me really sad though.
I feel the right number of counters is 6. I'm still on 6 (2 Snare, 2 Pierce, 2 Deprive) maindeck and 2 Dispels in the sideboard. I don't think we want more than 6 counters and I especially don't think we want Remand.
Rise // Fall is great value, however, after a lot of testing I've come to the conclusion that 2x Command AND 2x Rise // Fall is too much. As long as I keep 2 Command maindeck, I will run Rise // Fall as a 1 of.
Regarding the Tron MU, I find it rather difficult to apply that pressure you guys are talking about. They almost always have Pyroclasm ready for Delver and Pyromancer. We don't have time to counter it if we are on the draw. Even if we are on the play, if we go turn 1 Delver turn 2 Pyro they will sweep both with Pyroclasm the following turn. If we go slower to stay mana open we might not kill them quickly enough. Tasigur and Gurmag are too slow if their deck runs the way it should, unless we have Thought Scour. Without Thought Scour, the delve creatures are too slow for this MU. It's complicated. Thoughtseizes help a bit, but this MU is not 50/50 in my opinion based on testing: we are the underdog. Blue based Tron on the other hand is a good MU because they don't have Pyroclasm and are slower to set things up.
Today I started testing Merfolk again, it's been a while since I last tested it. The first results are not encouraging. I feel Merfolk and RG Tron are the worst MUs among the tier 1 decks.
On the other hand, I'm totally satisfied with my MU with Affinity, Jund, Twin and Grixis Control. Even Burn is manageable.
Another bad MU however, even if it's no tier 1 deck, is Naya Company. Voice, Loxodon Smiter, Tarmogoyf...they go big and quickly. Pretty much like with Merfolk, it's very hard for us to keep up with them.
First of all, both Merfolk and Tron are solidly Tier 2.
I feel like Tron is the worst matchup. They almost always have T3/4 Karn, Wurmcoil, or Ugin, but most of the time I can slog through that. I just find it hard to put the pressure back on before they can hit Emrakul, I almosy always lose to him.
Jund is 50/50 like all of Jund's other MUs.
To me Merfolk is a good matchup. You have to know what to kill on their side because removing the wrong creature is game, but if you keep 2-for-1ing like this deck is meant to do you'll win pretty easily. They also can't easily deal with T2 Delve creature or flipped Delver.
My counter package is 1 Dispel, 1 Pierce, 2 Snare, 2 Leak, 2 Deprive.
I completely disagree with you Alpalbp. Merfolk and tron are Tier 1, especially right now. Even MTGSalvation forums has a strong way of determining Tier listings each month, and they both are putting up results of a tier 1 deck. So its proven they are tier 1 through that.
Now back to Tron: while it is a difficult matchup, i find that Gitaxian probe is extremely important that matchup, allowing us to see if they have pyroclasm and whether or not we need to hold up spell snare/pierce for it, same with O Stone. If you have more burn in your deck, its an easier matchup, because grinding them will not work, especially when they find Eye of Ugin. This is where i dislike rise//fall, tron's way of winning doesn't involve holding cards in their hand, but rather playing their artifacts asap so they can get to 7 mana turn 3-4. T1 hand disruption is better than kill spells from my testing, which is why i side out terminates and murderous cut g2-3 and bring in thoughtseize for their hate for us. Deprive is better than mana leak in this particular matchup, but its harder to keep up with the UU requirement. Sometimes you just have to not play around O stone and Pyroclasm and force them to have it. By attempting to play around it, you are already not putting enough pressure into play in order to win.
For Merfolk I find that as another interesting matchup, but spot removal is strong, as well as kolaghan's command to help deal with aether vial. It takes some finesse to figure out when and what removal spells to have, but if they have a real nut draw, its hard to win against, since they have island walk. Against merfolk, I actually side out more counters specifically because of aether vial. Cards like dismember and go for the throat are amazing here, and killing their lords quickly so their other creatures can be bolted is the best plan as well after an early delver or delve creature.
I agree that the naya company decks are hard to face against, since they can grind out a ton of value with voice and smiters. But i find this as another 50/50 match. Its another deck i side out more counter magic in favor of spot removal, and I rarely force discard effects on naya company since they play smiter and a few players at my LGS have added obstinate baloth as a way to fight grixis.
First of all, both Merfolk and Tron are solidly Tier 2.
I feel like Tron is the worst matchup. They almost always have T3/4 Karn, Wurmcoil, or Ugin, but most of the time I can slog through that. I just find it hard to put the pressure back on before they can hit Emrakul, I almosy always lose to him.
Jund is 50/50 like all of Jund's other MUs.
To me Merfolk is a good matchup. You have to know what to kill on their side because removing the wrong creature is game, but if you keep 2-for-1ing like this deck is meant to do you'll win pretty easily. They also can't easily deal with T2 Delve creature or flipped Delver.
My counter package is 1 Dispel, 1 Pierce, 2 Snare, 2 Leak, 2 Deprive.
The reason Grixis Delver struggles against Tron is that it doesn't have reliable early pressure. Sometimes it keeps a hand full of Snapcaster Mage, Terminate, and Kolaghan's Command, and gets out-grinded. Tron often does deal with the deck's threats and it becomes impossible to recover before it reaches the midgame. But Tron's whole point is to beat midrange decks so this isn't surprising.
On paper, Grixis Delver should be crushing Merfolk though. Midrange decks just chew through their creatures, and KCommand even diffuses Aether Vial.
I also think you're greatly oversimplifying the Jund matchup. No, it doesn't have all 50/50 matchups. How does that make any sense?
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Hey guys, hate to bring budget into this but can I get away with 4x Bloodstained and 4x Polluted, Tarns are a bit out of my price range but that is really the only excessively expensive piece.
Looking at it it seems ok, definitely may cause me to shock more to find my first blue source tho....hmmm.
I would remove the 4th bloodstained mire for a flooded strand. Fetching a basic island is often crucial.
Also, flooded strand essentially fetches all your shocklands except blood crypt.
I play the standart creatures suite, it's the more efficient I guess (4 snap and 4 fatty's do a great job)
I love the 1 dispel, 1 spell pierce, 1 spell snare, 1 remand, 1 leak split, it's vert versatile, and with snap you can have resp to all spells (and 1 dispel, 1 pierce, 1 snare are great against Burn, with the flashback it's very nice)
I made my SB for a random meta, with standart decks (twin, affinity, Burn, jund, grixis control....)
Solid list. Interesting thoughts on counters.
I'd personally swap out 1 forked bolt or electrolyze for a murderous cut or go for the throat. All of the removal seems to be red and could be problematic against master of waves. Though I guess that depends if you expect more affinity or merfolk
I agree with TheAller. Murderous cut does belong in the deck. I've found Electrolyze to be a little slow as well, Forked Bolt would be better. Also, you want your counters to be hard hard counters. That's why I like running Mana Leak and Deprive. Granted Mana Leak isn't always going to be good, but I'd say it's useful 80% of the time. Deprive is almost always good. Since most of our threats only cost one or two mana picking up a land doesn't usually slow us down.
Did some testing against Naya Burn last night and let me tell you, that's a spicy number. Their creatures were nothing to write home about. We have enough removal to kill their Guides and Swiftspears, but their spells were certainly a problem. Seemed like pre-board I was able to go toe to toe against them, but after board I was getting blown out by Deflecting Palm. I was not running Dispel in my board because I didn't understand what it was for, but now I know the answer. Dispel seems like a perfect card for combating "to the face" shenanigans.
Because I'm running a playset of Abbots I'm not too keen on running lots of counters, but it might be a necessity if I see lots of burn moving forward. I know Hymn to Tourach destroys Legacy Burn so I've considered adding two more Rise // Fall to the board for the Burn matchup, but Dispel might just be better in the end because it's good both early and late in the game, whereas, a top decked Rise // Fall against a burn opponent with an empty hand or two cards in hand with open mana doesn't represent much value.
For now, I'm going with Probe number 4 (replacing the second Rise // Fall) and Thoughtseize number 3 (replacing the third Death's Shadow). I also decided to up my Darkslick Shores to 3 as a way to fight Choke.
And now I'm having another dilemma: Izzet Charm. Maybe I was too quick in renouncing to this card. It used to be very good back when I was playing UR Delver. Maybe I could run 1x maindeck instead of the second Deprive. It is undoubtably better against aggressive decks, and it's hardly a bad card against control and combo decks. The loothing is very relevant in this deck. I might need to try and test it as a 1of maindeck.
I did the same: +1 Probe, -1 Rise // Fall.
I have been really pleased with Darkslick Shores. I may increase my count as well. What does your mana base look like right now?
I sadly cut my Deprive. The returning a land cost has come back to bite me a few times more than I like. I'm now on 2 Leak, 2 Pierce, 2 Snare. Charm is attractive.
Tron is rough. I've used Blood Moon to good effect, but it usually has to be on time to really mess them up. I'm still wondering if Fulminator Mage/Rise//Fall is enough to disrupt them. Seems like some people have been having success with them. Fulminator also kills Blinkmoth/Inkmoth Nexus, Mutavault, Pendelhaven, Creeping Tar Pit and Celestial Colonnade so it's not like it's dead in other matchups. Might be worth the sideboard slots.
I like the idea of Fulminator in theory but in practice it is problematic for two reasons. First it is expensive. Second it is not an instant or sorcery. Don't get me wrong, I love Fulminators as much as the next person. The top end of the curve is presently only occupied by Kommands. To add anything in the 3 CMC slot is a big decision. Upping the creature count reduces the chance of delver flips. If you are interested in going the land destruction route I think Molten Rain would be a better choice. It flips delvers, snapcasts back, and deals damage to boot.
Tron is rough. I've used Blood Moon to good effect, but it usually has to be on time to really mess them up. I'm still wondering if Fulminator Mage/Rise//Fall is enough to disrupt them. Seems like some people have been having success with them. Fulminator also kills Blinkmoth/Inkmoth Nexus, Mutavault, Pendelhaven, Creeping Tar Pit and Celestial Colonnade so it's not like it's dead in other matchups. Might be worth the sideboard slots.
Just an opinion based on 20 games vs my 2 friends (RG Tron and UW/U Tron), I've found that if I can stick a delver T1//T2 Tasigur and hold up Mana leak/deprive/spell pierce/spell snare, my games vs tron tend to go quite well even if they attempt to run a T3 Karn or Wurmcoil. Typically a close 50/50 or slightly in our favor... but that just could be from limited testing.
Usually if they know they have to respect a M.leak or pierce, this will delay the 1-2 turns we need to clinch the game with our early threats. I'm not sure how if that would workout if we're playing heavier on the terminates and rise//fall package
Also, regarding the burn matches, it seems the lists running more terminates and rise//fall looks to concede G1 and hope to take it G2. Thoughts on this?My experience is that I've found the counter heavy (8+ counters) tend to lead to a 50/50 match up and in our favor G2. I used to run more terminates before the 2/2 split of pierce and snare inclusion and my burn matchup felt impossible to win G1.
But I guess the list changes slightly according to your meta? Burn is always around in mine.
I've tried Abbot and I find him lackluster in my delver list (counterspell heavy) and I think he functions better in blue jund/jund or Chapin's Temur Tempo. Obviously, my two cents...
On my tombstone, please write "Now his body fuels the Treasure Cruise"
Or you could Kommand him back...
Check out my Youtube Page for online Magic Content!
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Modern:
BURGrixis DelverRUB
URUR DelverRU
URBlue MoonRU
RIPURUR TwinRURIP
Legacy:
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RUBGrixis PyromancerRUB
Commander:
URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
URBJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeRUB
Your performance is going to be largely dependent on how familiar you become with the match ups. This deck definitely doesn't drive itself. With over half the cards CMC 1 or 0 there are more lines in this deck than you realize (just yesterday I did about 6 things on turn 2). With this deck more than others (I think), understanding what you're up against turn 1 is important. Do you jam a threat? Keep countermagic up? Bolt their dork? Is it safe to fetch-shock-serum or should you wait...
Check out the first post in this primer for MU notes but here are my thoughts:
Scanning what is considered T1 right now - Grixis Control, RUG/Grixis/UR Twin, Burn, Jund, Affinity, Merfolk - I feel fine against all of them. Burn is probably the most unforgiving (in a recent game, I took a full minute figuring out my turn 1 land to minimize self-inflicted pain). We go toe-to-toe with Grixis Control and the Twins. Jund is about 50/50 for me. It really depends on how much hand disruption they get off and if they can stick a Lilly. Affinity is a great MU with maindecking Kommands. I haven't played much Merfolk.
Sounds similar to the lines that get taken in legacy grixis delver, and honestly the line that alot of the tempo control decks I've played in the past.
Sounds like it's worth sleeving up and playing, to me. It also sounds like grixis delver is fairly close to being T1 itself. Or Modern is becoming similar to legacy, in the sense that "established decks" can all do well and any notion of "tiers" is pretty blurry.
Thought Scour/Serum Visions as cantrips make me really sad though.
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
First of all, both Merfolk and Tron are solidly Tier 2.
I feel like Tron is the worst matchup. They almost always have T3/4 Karn, Wurmcoil, or Ugin, but most of the time I can slog through that. I just find it hard to put the pressure back on before they can hit Emrakul, I almosy always lose to him.
Jund is 50/50 like all of Jund's other MUs.
To me Merfolk is a good matchup. You have to know what to kill on their side because removing the wrong creature is game, but if you keep 2-for-1ing like this deck is meant to do you'll win pretty easily. They also can't easily deal with T2 Delve creature or flipped Delver.
My counter package is 1 Dispel, 1 Pierce, 2 Snare, 2 Leak, 2 Deprive.
Now back to Tron: while it is a difficult matchup, i find that Gitaxian probe is extremely important that matchup, allowing us to see if they have pyroclasm and whether or not we need to hold up spell snare/pierce for it, same with O Stone. If you have more burn in your deck, its an easier matchup, because grinding them will not work, especially when they find Eye of Ugin. This is where i dislike rise//fall, tron's way of winning doesn't involve holding cards in their hand, but rather playing their artifacts asap so they can get to 7 mana turn 3-4. T1 hand disruption is better than kill spells from my testing, which is why i side out terminates and murderous cut g2-3 and bring in thoughtseize for their hate for us. Deprive is better than mana leak in this particular matchup, but its harder to keep up with the UU requirement. Sometimes you just have to not play around O stone and Pyroclasm and force them to have it. By attempting to play around it, you are already not putting enough pressure into play in order to win.
For Merfolk I find that as another interesting matchup, but spot removal is strong, as well as kolaghan's command to help deal with aether vial. It takes some finesse to figure out when and what removal spells to have, but if they have a real nut draw, its hard to win against, since they have island walk. Against merfolk, I actually side out more counters specifically because of aether vial. Cards like dismember and go for the throat are amazing here, and killing their lords quickly so their other creatures can be bolted is the best plan as well after an early delver or delve creature.
I agree that the naya company decks are hard to face against, since they can grind out a ton of value with voice and smiters. But i find this as another 50/50 match. Its another deck i side out more counter magic in favor of spot removal, and I rarely force discard effects on naya company since they play smiter and a few players at my LGS have added obstinate baloth as a way to fight grixis.
On my tombstone, please write "Now his body fuels the Treasure Cruise"
Or you could Kommand him back...
Check out my Youtube Page for online Magic Content!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcq-a5rTSNclFCS2o4_lVFw
Modern:
BURGrixis DelverRUB
URUR DelverRU
URBlue MoonRU
RIPURUR TwinRURIP
Legacy:
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RUBGrixis PyromancerRUB
Commander:
URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
URBJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeRUB
Evidently, mtgsalvation at least disagrees; Merfolk is in the Tier 1 forum.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
The reason Grixis Delver struggles against Tron is that it doesn't have reliable early pressure. Sometimes it keeps a hand full of Snapcaster Mage, Terminate, and Kolaghan's Command, and gets out-grinded. Tron often does deal with the deck's threats and it becomes impossible to recover before it reaches the midgame. But Tron's whole point is to beat midrange decks so this isn't surprising.
On paper, Grixis Delver should be crushing Merfolk though. Midrange decks just chew through their creatures, and KCommand even diffuses Aether Vial.
I also think you're greatly oversimplifying the Jund matchup. No, it doesn't have all 50/50 matchups. How does that make any sense?
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Looking at it it seems ok, definitely may cause me to shock more to find my first blue source tho....hmmm.
Also, flooded strand essentially fetches all your shocklands except blood crypt.
Here's my list, what do you think about?
I'll go to an event in two weeks with the deck, and I want to be prepared more as possible
// MAIN DECK (60)
2 Gurmag Angler
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Young Pyromancer
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Electrolyze
2 Kolaghan’s Command
1 Mana Leak
1 Remand
3 Terminate
1 Spell Snare
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Spell Pierce
2 Forked Bolt
1 Dispel
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Thought Scour
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
// SIDEBOARD (15)
SB: 1 Spellskite
SB: 1 Rough // Tumble
SB: 1 Dismember
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 Negate
SB: 2 Vampiric Link
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Dispel
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Vandalblast
SB: 1 Rending Volley
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
I play the standart creatures suite, it's the more efficient I guess (4 snap and 4 fatty's do a great job)
I love the 1 dispel, 1 spell pierce, 1 spell snare, 1 remand, 1 leak split, it's vert versatile, and with snap you can have resp to all spells (and 1 dispel, 1 pierce, 1 snare are great against Burn, with the flashback it's very nice)
I made my SB for a random meta, with standart decks (twin, affinity, Burn, jund, grixis control....)
Any suggestions?
Thank's
I'd personally swap out 1 forked bolt or electrolyze for a murderous cut or go for the throat. All of the removal seems to be red and could be problematic against master of waves. Though I guess that depends if you expect more affinity or merfolk
Did some testing against Naya Burn last night and let me tell you, that's a spicy number. Their creatures were nothing to write home about. We have enough removal to kill their Guides and Swiftspears, but their spells were certainly a problem. Seemed like pre-board I was able to go toe to toe against them, but after board I was getting blown out by Deflecting Palm. I was not running Dispel in my board because I didn't understand what it was for, but now I know the answer. Dispel seems like a perfect card for combating "to the face" shenanigans.
Because I'm running a playset of Abbots I'm not too keen on running lots of counters, but it might be a necessity if I see lots of burn moving forward. I know Hymn to Tourach destroys Legacy Burn so I've considered adding two more Rise // Fall to the board for the Burn matchup, but Dispel might just be better in the end because it's good both early and late in the game, whereas, a top decked Rise // Fall against a burn opponent with an empty hand or two cards in hand with open mana doesn't represent much value.
I did the same: +1 Probe, -1 Rise // Fall.
I have been really pleased with Darkslick Shores. I may increase my count as well. What does your mana base look like right now?
I sadly cut my Deprive. The returning a land cost has come back to bite me a few times more than I like. I'm now on 2 Leak, 2 Pierce, 2 Snare. Charm is attractive.
I like the idea of Fulminator in theory but in practice it is problematic for two reasons. First it is expensive. Second it is not an instant or sorcery. Don't get me wrong, I love Fulminators as much as the next person. The top end of the curve is presently only occupied by Kommands. To add anything in the 3 CMC slot is a big decision. Upping the creature count reduces the chance of delver flips. If you are interested in going the land destruction route I think Molten Rain would be a better choice. It flips delvers, snapcasts back, and deals damage to boot.
Playing with foils reduces the pain a little...
Tron's best and latest answers appear to be Boil and Wurmcoil Engine. Burn: I'm seeing Rakdos Charm, Volcanic Fallout and Eidolon. Yep, those will do the job! Merfolk... just win....